gurdwara corruption - help me make a change

[fromherkingsareborn]

WJKK WJKF !

 

This post will be long so I apologize beforehand, but please provide some help.

 

Prior to going to this Gurdwara, I had heard a lot about the committee and the granthis in the gurdwara. This includes people who have observed swearing and arguments bewteen granthis and committtee meemebers in the darbar hall in the presence of SGGSJi. I also found out that they do not do Rehraas at a set time and sometimes they do it at 7:30pm. In addition to this I heard the granthis and parthaan of the gurdwara chose to completely stop langar apart from Sundays, despite there being classes on some weekdays in the evening.  Also, they use the sangats money to order pizza for the other granthis birthday but when the sangat came in they did not offer them anything and told them to eat the leftover sweets on the table. And finally, the most surprising thing, for once it was the committee members trying to fight for the correct running of the gurdwara but the granthis and parthaan shut them off. All of this spurred me to go investigate for myself..

 

So, about 2 weeks ago I visited a Gurdwara in the outskirts of the city center. It was midday on a Friday, so I didn't expect there to be much sangat as the Gurdwara is further away from houses. Now, when I arrived to the Gurdwara, I went in and sat in the presence of Maharaj Ji. There was a tape playing Shabads on quite low. So after a little while, the Granthi came in and told me to come and get Prashaad from the him, so I got up and put my hands together, the then proceeds to putting the Prashaad in my hands as well as fully touching my hands (he didn't know if I had washed my hands or not). 

 

Seeing as I had just got up, I made my way into the langar hall and waited for him to come out, once he came I asked him what time Rehraas in recited in the Gurdwara. He mirrored what people had told me beforehand, he said that there isn't anytime, they do it whenever they can, even 7:30pm, I was glad that he didn't lie, that was a start I guess, but how wrong I was..

 

I then asked him what they do after Rehraas, he said that they do the Ardaas and that's it. I asked them if they do Shabads or the Aarti after Rehraas, but he said no. I then asked about other classes and programmes that they have (at this point we were sitting in the langar hall). He responded to me saying that the sangat and naujawan are not interested in classes of any type. But he did say that they have yoga classes and Punjabi classes on, and that the turnout is not great. I told him that if I were to get a slot and gather sangat then would that be fine - he started to hesitate and then changed the topic by saying 'well you'll have to pay for the ingredients for langar and then pay for the electricity and gas and cook yourself'. I was a bit surprised as this should be coming from the gurdwara's part as there was no talk of any akhand paath, wedding etc. 

 

I do kirtan and shabads in different Gurdwareh and I genuinely wanted to have a slot at that gurdwara too. So I asked if there was any way that on a weekday after Rehraas I could do the Aarti or on the weekend if I could have a 10 minute slot for a shabad and if I'm lucky then an hour slot so I could do english katha for the youth. But he laughed at me and said no, he said that they already have contracts with other ragis so it's not possible. So, i pushed him into giving me a time slot during a weekdays but even then he didn't let me. He also then said that no body other than the ragis and the granthis can go on stage, indicating that i can't do anything. 

 

I then very politely asked for half an hour to do simran only - and he had the adacity to say, why would you want to do anything here when there is no sanagat and that the darbar hall is empty. When he said this I was so shocked, I told him that it doesn't matter for the sangat as Maharaj Ji himself is present but even then he didn't take his words back. The conversation kept going back and forth and this point and i wasn't getting anywhere. I tried everything, but he laughed it all of.

 

Now here is the bit which aggravated me, I asked him if he was part of the committee and he said he was. He then asked me why I asked him that and whether I wanted to join the committee. Now, I had no intention of joining any committee, but just to see what his answer was going to be I said that I did want to be part of the committee - you know what he did then, he laughed in my face and said 'well I'm sorry, but you can't'. I was shocked at this but I decided to laugh back and said 'Oh, really, is it because you think I am a child?' (I'm 21 btw). He then laughed even more and said no, that wast the reason, so i asked him what the reason was and with MASSIVE smirk he said it was because I was a female. I instantly tried to argue my way around this, telling him that this is going against what out gurus say. The worst part - he didn't give a sh*t!! He said why would females be on the committee when it consists of all males who are old. I always asked about arguments during meetings and he owned up saying that they have arguments etc in the darbar hall. 

 

So basically, i didn't get anywhere and i told him that i will be back lol. 

 

But truth is, I have no idea what I plan to do - all I know is that I want to and that I will do something about this corruption - but this is where i need all your help. I would like you guys to give me some suggestions as to what I can do - education-wise, I think I know enough to argue their points. I'm looking for action to take place.

 

I genuinely appreciate all of you who have taken your time outto read this and offer advice. 

[JasperS]

Bhen Jee you may have come to the wrong forum to ask for help as a female.  I think most of the Singhs here (myself not included) however might be on same page as that Granthi who sloughed you off for being female. 

[SAadmin]

3 hours ago, fromherkingsareborn said:

 

Now here is the bit which aggravated me, I asked him if he was part of the committee and he said he was. He then asked me why I asked him that and whether I wanted to join the committee. Now, I had no intention of joining any committee, but just to see what his answer was going to be I said that I did want to be part of the committee - you know what he did then, he laughed in my face and said 'well I'm sorry, but you can't'. I was shocked at this but I decided to laugh back and said 'Oh, really, is it because you think I am a child?' (I'm 21 btw). He then laughed even more and said no, that wast the reason, so i asked him what the reason was and with MASSIVE smirk he said it was because I was a female. I instantly tried to argue my way around this, telling him that this is going against what out gurus say. The worst part - he didn't give a sh*t!! He said why would females be on the committee when it consists of all males who are old. I always asked about arguments during meetings and he owned up saying that they have arguments etc in the darbar hall. 

Sorry to hear about your experience. You need to realize there is quite bit of patriarchy cultural influence super imposed on sikh gurdwara and community So if i were you, i wont even bother with these people who are soo deep rooted in their patriarchy sexist ways. Luckily, seed is not destroyed you could always join woman jatha which help out bring awareness of this issue so that collective consciousness of our community could be raised. 

Here is thread dedicated to sikh woman parcharikhs and saints in our dharam, perhaps you could print it out and show it to this individual:

 

 

[Koi]

For some people, only "dandaa" is "peer"...

This is unfortunately a norm within A LOT of Gurdwara committees 

[paapiman]

18 hours ago, fromherkingsareborn said:

I genuinely appreciate all of you who have taken your time outto read this and offer advice. 

Sister, IMHO, you should try to seek advice from Gurmukhs/Saints. Do you know of any high avastha Sikhs?

Is this Gurudwara based in Canada?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

@fromherkingsareborn - This might sound very weird, but Daas would humbly suggest that you do not go to such a Gurudwara alone, especially when the sangat is very less.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Rock]

28 minutes ago, paapiman said:

@fromherkingsareborn - This might sound very weird, but Daas would humbly suggest that you do not go to such a Gurudwara alone, especially when the sangat is very less.

Bhul chuk maaf

Its not weird its being careful. I would never allow my sister or daughter to go to Gurdwaras alone & seek justice for women rights. Call me old-fashioned I dont care.

My troll senses are tingling from the op. I think someone just wanted to test this forum about women rights.

[JasperS]

1 hour ago, Rock said:

Its not weird its being careful. I would never allow my sister or daughter to go to Gurdwaras alone & seek justice for women rights. Call me old-fashioned I dont care.

My troll senses are tingling from the op. I think someone just wanted to test this forum about women rights.

Well, if they were testing how this forum thinks with regards to women, they should have a look around. I don't think there are any females left posting here! Where did they all go? Gurpreet Kaur, CdnSikhgirl, sukrit kaur, they all seemed to have stopped posting. Thats says something. This place isn't really known for being supportive of women having equal rights in Sikhee. The OP might have better luck on some other forums. I don't know if I am allowed to post names or not for other forums that more female friendly. 

And Rock, you are right, I wouldn't allow my daughter to go alone either. I'd go with her and give that granthi a lesson on what our Gurus taught about equality. 

[fromherkingsareborn]

17 hours ago, N30 S!NGH said:

Sorry to hear about your experience. You need to realize there is quite bit of patriarchy cultural influence super imposed on sikh gurdwara and community So if i were you, i wont even bother with these people who are soo deep rooted in their patriarchy sexist ways. Luckily, seed is not destroyed you could always join woman jatha which help out bring awareness of this issue so that collective consciousness of our community could be raised. 

Here is thread dedicated to sikh woman parcharikhs and saints in our dharam, perhaps you could print it out and show it to this individual:

 

 

Thank you for that thread, it was interesting to read and watch the videos posted. However, I still feel that the issue will never be sorted in that gurdwara unless proper action of some sort is taken place. Unfortunately, I have no idea what to do

2 hours ago, paapiman said:

Sister, IMHO, you should try to seek advice from Gurmukhs/Saints. Do you know of any high avastha Sikhs?

Is this Gurudwara based in Canada?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Nope, this is in the UK. 

I never thought about that way around it. I personally know a Mahpurak, maybe that's where I can seek advice from! Thank you :) 

[fromherkingsareborn]

 

2 hours ago, paapiman said:

@fromherkingsareborn - This might sound very weird, but Daas would humbly suggest that you do not go to such a Gurudwara alone, especially when the sangat is very less.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

2 hours ago, Rock said:

Its not weird its being careful. I would never allow my sister or daughter to go to Gurdwaras alone & seek justice for women rights. Call me old-fashioned I dont care.

My troll senses are tingling from the op. I think someone just wanted to test this forum about women rights.

 

18 minutes ago, JasperS said:

Well, if they were testing how this forum thinks with regards to women, they should have a look around. I don't think there are any females left posting here! Where did they all go? Gurpreet Kaur, CdnSikhgirl, sukrit kaur, they all seemed to have stopped posting. Thats says something. This place isn't really known for being supportive of women having equal rights in Sikhee. The OP might have better luck on some other forums. I don't know if I am allowed to post names or not for other forums that more female friendly. 

And Rock, you are right, I wouldn't allow my daughter to go alone either. I'd go with her and give that granthi a lesson on what our Gurus taught about equality. 

Hi, I've never been on this forum before, so I didn't really know what goes on here, so don't worry about me testing anyone. Though, JasperS, I'm quite surprised to hear that there seems to be a lack of support for female equality in this forum :(

I genuinely need some sort of an answer because this issue has been bothering me for a while. 

Paapiman and Rock, I understand where you both are coming from, but I plan to go once more alone to find out a bit more before going again with my uncle and brother who know the 'president' of the gurdwara - lol I'm sure they'd be surprised to see me pop up for the third time haha

I just don't know what to do really 

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, fromherkingsareborn said:

Though, JasperS, I'm quite surprised to hear that there seems to be a lack of support for female equality in this forum :(

IMHO, most people on this forum respect women and believe in woman empowerment (as per Sikh principles).

Daas would highly recommend you to stay on the forum, as you can potentially learn a lot from it, and move closer to Waheguru. 

Sikhawareness is possibly the best Sikh forum. Please have a look below.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[JasperS]

1 hour ago, fromherkingsareborn said:

 

 

 

Hi, I've never been on this forum before, so I didn't really know what goes on here, so don't worry about me testing anyone. Though, JasperS, I'm quite surprised to hear that there seems to be a lack of support for female equality in this forum :(

I genuinely need some sort of an answer because this issue has been bothering me for a while. 

Paapiman and Rock, I understand where you both are coming from, but I plan to go once more alone to find out a bit more before going again with my uncle and brother who know the 'president' of the gurdwara - lol I'm sure they'd be surprised to see me pop up for the third time haha

I just don't know what to do really 

I think you will find the main thoughts on here are that women should not be treated badly, but they definitely do not deserve equal rights and treatment to men.  The majority on here are happy with cultural status quo where women occupy a lesser role and private home life, out of leadership and public sphere especially in Sikhee. They want the leadership roles kept to males and want women to be submissive. At least that's what most have been posting on here a lot and because of it I think there aren't any females posting here anymore that I can see.

[samurai]

On 4/30/2016 at 9:34 PM, fromherkingsareborn said:

the Granthi came in and told me to come and get Prashaad from the him, so I got up and put my hands together, the then proceeds to putting the Prashaad in my hands as well as fully touching my hands (he didn't know if I had washed my hands or not). 

That so called giani shouldn't be 'fully' touching your hand..  do not be so naive to think that all gianis are all nice and doing seva, quiet a few are simple perverts. So i'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with cleanliness. If you do not mind, can you share what gurdwara it is? 

[Rock]

2 hours ago, samurai said:

That so called giani shouldn't be 'fully' touching your hand

Good catch.

[paapiman]

3 hours ago, samurai said:

That so called giani shouldn't be 'fully' touching your hand..  do not be so naive to think that all gianis are all nice and doing seva, quiet a few are simple perverts. So i'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with cleanliness. If you do not mind, can you share what gurdwara it is? 

@fromherkingsareborn - Based on the above, Daas would definitely request you to not go back to that Gurudwara alone.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Guest XYZ]

Good Luck I have seen Gurdwara Politics for the last 40 years in Canada. Long live with the depression you shall carry all your life to change. Guru Sahib jee could never change this.

[chatanga1]

On 01/05/2016 at 4:32 PM, Rock said:

My troll senses are tingling from the op. I think someone just wanted to test this forum about women rights.

 

yes i was thinking the same.

[Guest Sukhdev]

5 hours ago, chatanga1 said:

 

yes i was thinking the same.

Why would that be a bad thing? I think after reading some things on this forum and some of the lowly comments about female gender, there should just be a sticky topic stating that the position of this forum on females which is that they should not have same equal rights as Singhs. I am sure you agree. I am sure nobody wants to treat them badly, but I highly doubt anyone on here think women should have equal rights and say in Sikhi as Singhs as is evident from the posts from many on here you included. Women should not have equality as their position is not be leaders in Sikhi. They are supposed to stay home and raise families and leave leading and religious duties to Singhs. That is not lower just different role. Notice not a single Singh so far has said anything positive to the original poster to condemn the comment that was made about females not able to be in committees. Instead your only thought is to think they are a troll for posting to find out about female rights it shows what your attitude is and what you think of women given your post. I think if the forum posts some note so new people coming here will know this position it will stop a lot of your frustration with new females coming here thinking they will be treated with equal respect. They will know their place outright.