HAR as JAP?Simran in Sri Guru Granth Sahib

[GurjantGnostic]

14 minutes ago, chintamatkaro said:

That being said, I still use Waheguru as my main mantra but I don’t exclude Krishna from my worship either. We really need to dig deeper into what and why Baba Nanak said the things he did in SGGS. Krishna is more than a “demigod”. He is the head aspect of the Supreme Being. Also there used to be photos of Sri Ganesha and Sri Hanuman on the original Khalsa flags. We are very much Hindus but we just know the true way because of Baba Nanak. He revived the consciousness of Satnaam in us.

Krishna is a Devi Devte. See Dasam Granth. 

5 minutes ago, chintamatkaro said:

I understand, I love Waheguru mantra but even Bhai Gurdas said it was about avtaara… so it begs the question, are we really who we think we are? We are all sanatanis, everytime we take Vaheguru naam we take Vasudev Hari Govind Raam according to Esteemed Sant Baba Gurdas Ji. These are all naam of Hindu origin. Specifically incarnations of Lord Vishnu.

No friend. These are the Mantars of the Mahayugh. Each Yugh had a Devi Devte who delivered and resonated with the Naam of that time. The universe itself says Vaheguru. While there are countless names for 1 this is Sat Naam. 

Hindus didn't make anything. 

[chintamatkaro]

6 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Krishna is a Devi Devte. See Dasam Granth. 

No friend. These are the Mantars of the Mahayugh. Each Yugh had a Devi Devte who delivered and resonated with the Naam of that time. The universe itself says Vaheguru. While there are countless names for 1 this is Sat Naam. 

There are many Krishnas indeed but these are emanations from the Godhead. Why would the Gita lie to us? And Gaga Gobind was for kalyug so you’re insinuating that Guru ji was a deva? How do you know the universe says Waheguru? According to each religion it says different things. These are things to ponder my friend, dont take it as an attack.

in the beginning of Bhai Gurdas vaar he clearly states that Satnam is the mantra, Waheguru is the gurmantar. So the true naam would be Satnaam while the gurmantar connects you to the Satgurus of each age. Waheguru is not the naam then. Then we have the topic of why Guru ji decided to use har(i) 9000x in Gurbani.

[chintamatkaro]

8 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

 

Hindus didn't make anything. 

Yet almost every Sikh’s ancestors are Hindu in origin… and we praise Satguru as Krishna, Rama and Vasudeva. Make it make sense.

[chintamatkaro]

I am simply trying to say we are the True Hindus. We should know our history, heritage and roots. Creation has been going longer than 1469. That is if you are of Punjabi/Indian origin.

[Ragmaala]

Ram, Hari, Krishan , Vasudev, Satnam, Allah, Nirankar, Parmeshwar, Thakur, Gopal, Govind, Prabhu, etc are all names of God and they signify different aspects of God. Uttering them will wash away Sins. 

Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji have given a place to every Name, and bhagats from different faiths with different Gurmantras. 

However , Guru Nanak Dev Ji is the only Pooran Avtar or Guru Parmeshwar themselves.

For Sikhs, the GuruMantra is WaheGuru as transmitted by Panj Pyare, and as per the maryada that was established by 10th roop of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. 

 

[Ragmaala]

14 hours ago, chintamatkaro said:

Guru Nanak literally told us to jap Har, Hari, Raam. Idk where waheguru came from. I heard it was some sort of secret mantra (questionable). When Waheguru is used in SGGS its used in reference to Krishna

Guru Granth Sahib Ji is Guru of everyone. So when a muslim or hindu reads it, they can see it as an instruction to jap Naam. Now this Naam/Gurmantra will vary according to their tradition or Samparda. So they can do jaap of Allah, Hari, Ram, Gopal, etc..

When a Sikh reads it , it is instruction to do Jaap of Naam/Gurmantra. For Sikhs, Gurmantra is Waheguru.  There are many instructions in Guru Granth Sahib to recite Waho  Waho or Guru Guru etc.. those imply to do japa of Waheguru Gurumantra. 

When Mata Sahib Kaur ji sent out hukamnamas they said to recite Guru Guru which meant Waheguru Mantra. 

I am not saying that other name of God are not powerful. But just like a devout wife is only faithful to her one Husband, for Sikhs the sole Gurmantra is Waheguru, and internally we should be devoted to that. 

When we are reading Gurbani, anyways we are automatically doing Jaap of all other names of God as mentioned previously. 

Having said that, denying the existence of Waheguru Mantra or questioning where it came from, can be seen as an attack on the core of Sikhi, Without waheguru Mantra we are nothing.  Guru Nanak Dev Ji have meditated/recited  for 36 Yugas on each syllable of Waheguru Mantra.  I am sure you did not mean that. 

You are free to have your own opinion, I am not going to debate you or try to prove you wrong.

But this post is for other future readers who might read this thread  and start questioning Waheguru mantra or its origins.  They can decide for themselves. For everyone  out there, dont every shake your foundations which have been transmitted throught Panj Pyare to you. 

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki fateh ! 

 

[chintamatkaro]

3 hours ago, Ragmaala said:

Guru Granth Sahib Ji is Guru of everyone. So when a muslim or hindu reads it, they can see it as an instruction to jap Naam. Now this Naam/Gurmantra will vary according to their tradition or Samparda. So they can do jaap of Allah, Hari, Ram, Gopal, etc..

When a Sikh reads it , it is instruction to do Jaap of Naam/Gurmantra. For Sikhs, Gurmantra is Waheguru.  There are many instructions in Guru Granth Sahib to recite Waho  Waho or Guru Guru etc.. those imply to do japa of Waheguru Gurumantra. 

When Mata Sahib Kaur ji sent out hukamnamas they said to recite Guru Guru which meant Waheguru Mantra. 

I am not saying that other name of God are not powerful. But just like a devout wife is only faithful to her one Husband, for Sikhs the sole Gurmantra is Waheguru, and internally we should be devoted to that. 

When we are reading Gurbani, anyways we are automatically doing Jaap of all other names of God as mentioned previously. 

Having said that, denying the existence of Waheguru Mantra or questioning where it came from, can be seen as an attack on the core of Sikhi, Without waheguru Mantra we are nothing.  Guru Nanak Dev Ji have meditated/recited  for 36 Yugas on each syllable of Waheguru Mantra.  I am sure you did not mean that. 

You are free to have your own opinion, I am not going to debate you or try to prove you wrong.

But this post is for other future readers who might read this thread  and start questioning Waheguru mantra or its origins.  They can decide for themselves. For everyone  out there, dont every shake your foundations which have been transmitted throught Panj Pyare to you. 

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki fateh ! 

 

Fair enough. Im not going to claim like I know anything, I’m just trying to decipher the clues left behind us by SGGS and historical roots. I myself still rely on Waheguru and always will, I am just a curious person thats all. It would be natural for any serious seeker to question why Waheguru isn’t used in the Guru Granth Ji and why Har and Raam are used in its stead. That being said, I know nothing and I am just simply operating by the little wisdom that God gave me.

[GurjantGnostic]

23 hours ago, chintamatkaro said:

I understand, I love Waheguru mantra but even Bhai Gurdas said it was about avtaara… so it begs the question, are we really who we think we are? We are all sanatanis, everytime we take Vaheguru naam we take Vasudev Hari Govind Raam according to Esteemed Sant Baba Gurdas Ji. These are all naam of Hindu origin. Specifically incarnations of Lord Vishnu. And honestly I am proud of my ancestors and their worship was pure and perfect so why should we deviate from the Truth? Baba Nanak didn’t establish a new religion he simply re awakened the lost souls of Hindustan. Back to our Sanatani roots, even Maharaj Guru Gobind Singh Ji told the Hindus of the time that keeping the kesh was symbolic of being a sant, as the hindus used to keep a rishi knot for extra spiritual energy.

It's Vishnu Har Gobind Ram I believe.  The Mantar not the Devi Devte.  

The point is 1 Naam, the one given by Guru Nanak Dev Ji, wasn't made up by anybody. 

Nor did your ancestors make up the vedas.

ਨਾਭਿਕਮਲਤੇਬ੍ਰਹਮਾਉਪਜੇਬੇਦਪੜਹਿਮੁਖਿਕੰਠਿਸਵਾਰਿ॥

naabh kamal te brahamaa aupaje bedh paReh mukh ka(n)tt savaar ||

From the lotus of Vishnu's navel, Brahma was born; He chanted the Vedas with a melodious voice.

 

Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Gujri - 489

Guru Granth Sahib Ji is written to all people. 1 Naam is given to Sikhs. 

[GurjantGnostic]

9 hours ago, Ragmaala said:

Ram, Hari, Krishan , Vasudev, Satnam, Allah, Nirankar, Parmeshwar, Thakur, Gopal, Govind, Prabhu, etc are all names of God and they signify different aspects of God. Uttering them will wash away Sins. 

Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji have given a place to every Name, and bhagats from different faiths with different Gurmantras. 

However , Guru Nanak Dev Ji is the only Pooran Avtar or Guru Parmeshwar themselves.

For Sikhs, the GuruMantra is WaheGuru as transmitted by Panj Pyare, and as per the maryada that was established by 10th roop of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. 

 

I'm not sure all those are used as Naam but almost. 

[paapiman]

On 12/11/2023 at 10:03 PM, chintamatkaro said:

Guru Nanak literally told us to jap Har, Hari, Raam. Idk where waheguru came from. I heard it was some sort of secret mantra (questionable). When Waheguru is used in SGGS its used in reference to Krishna.

when I think about it we are the true Hindus, our Gurus simply revived the Truth within our kaum. Why else would they make constant references to Hari naam and Ram naam (occuring over 9000 times and 2000 times in SGGS)

the amritdhari caste will have us believe otherwise

Har/Hari and Raam Mantar are incorporated within the WAHEGURU/WAHGURU mantar.

The WAHEGURU Mantar has 500 meanings.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

On 12/12/2023 at 4:24 PM, chintamatkaro said:

Fair enough. Im not going to claim like I know anything, I’m just trying to decipher the clues left behind us by SGGS and historical roots. I myself still rely on Waheguru and always will, I am just a curious person thats all. It would be natural for any serious seeker to question why Waheguru isn’t used in the Guru Granth Ji and why Har and Raam are used in its stead. That being said, I know nothing and I am just simply operating by the little wisdom that God gave me.

It is good to have a curious mind. Please do not hesitate to ask any amount of reasonable questions on the forum.

Thanks

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

On 12/11/2023 at 10:34 PM, chintamatkaro said:

There are many Krishnas indeed but these are emanations from the Godhead. Why would the Gita lie to us? And Gaga Gobind was for kalyug so you’re insinuating that Guru ji was a deva? How do you know the universe says Waheguru? According to each religion it says different things. These are things to ponder my friend, dont take it as an attack.

in the beginning of Bhai Gurdas vaar he clearly states that Satnam is the mantra, Waheguru is the gurmantar. So the true naam would be Satnaam while the gurmantar connects you to the Satgurus of each age. Waheguru is not the naam then. Then we have the topic of why Guru ji decided to use har(i) 9000x in Gurbani.

There was a Taksali Mahapurakh, who used to do Jaap of "Har Waheguru" (as Har is used the maximum (or many) times in Gurbani to refer to the Almighty God), but when he reached the stage of hearing the Anhad Naad, he only heard "Waheguru".

In general, Gurbani is full of Naam/Beej Mantars.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

On 6/7/2018 at 4:07 AM, paapiman said:

Daas is not completely sure about the details of the sakhi below, so please don't quote me on it. Gurparsaad, will confirm it in the future.

Sant Baba Bishen Singh jee Murarewale or Sant Baba Sundar Singh jee Khalsa Bhindranwale used to do jaap of "Har Waheguru" as he had a similar thinking as yours. The word "Har" is used the maximum number of times in Sri Aad Gurbani, out of all the names of Sri Akal Purakh. But, when "Anhad Naad" manifested itself to Babajee, he only heard the sound of "Waheguru". There was no "Har".

Our Gurmantar is Waheguru and we should try to focus on it. Having said that, one can do Jaap of other mantars (from Gurbani).

One Jaap to stay away from (especially forJagayasus) is "Sohang". There might be others, which we should avoid.

 

Bhul chuk maaf 

@chintamatkaro - Please read the above.

Thanks

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[chintamatkaro]

31 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Har/Hari and Raam Mantar are incorporated within the WAHEGURU/WAHGURU mantar.

The WAHEGURU Mantar has 500 meanings.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

You see, you are a very caring soul, I admire that about you.

No matter what, I always find myself going back to Vaheguru Vaheguru Vaheguru. Its just so easy and powerful. For me, I use Satnaam, Mool Mantar, Har, even I use Hare Krishna Mahamantra as well because it brings a lot of peace and sukh and I know its in recognition of the One Power (Ik Onkaar). I think when we all realize how we are similar and less about how we are different we will reach a better world for all. I have also been studying Buddhism and  Sufism recently. Everyone claims Guru Nanak Dev Ji as their own no matter the religion haha.  it shows you how great Baba Ji really is. We are most fortunate to be born and have keen ears to hear Vaheguru mantar.

 

and ironically I wrote all this listening to “Koi Bole Ram Ram, Koi Khuda, Koi Allah” shabad. One thing I love about Buddha is that he wants enlightenment for every being. This is paralell to our ardaas, sarbat da bhalla. We must strive for these ideals as Gursikhs.