Paradox in Sikhi?

[Dhoor721]

Since my first question was responded to quite well by the moderators, I have decided to ask another.

It is my understanding that Sikhi believes that all paths and all religions can achieve salvation. It is also my understanding that idol worship, among other "baseless rituals," are part of the Hindu faith. Now, if the Gurus have said that by practicing these rituals you cannot achieve salvation, that would mean no Hindus would achieve salvation even though they are following their religion! For example, look at this quote from pannaa 654 (courtesy of sikhitothemax.com):

buq pUij pUij ihMdU mUey qurk mUey isru nweI ]

buth pooj pooj hi(n)dhoo mooeae thurak mooeae sir naaee ||

Worshipping their idols, the Hindus die; the Muslims die bowing their heads.

Eie ly jwry Eie ly gwfy qyrI giq duhU n pweI ]1]

oue lae jaarae oue lae gaaddae thaeree gath dhuhoo n paaee ||1||

The Hindus cremate their dead, while the Muslims bury theirs; neither finds Your true state, Lord. ||1||

I believe this question can be expanded past Hinduism and Islam, though. By saying that we believe all religions have the ability to achieve salvation, how far does that reach? Where is the line drawn? If there is a group of Islamic terrorists who believe in their heart that by killing "non-believers" they will reach God, do we condone their actions and say that yes, they, too, can achieve God?

I would appreciate any feedback/answers.

[Gupt Singh]

no where in sikhi does it say ur average bahman or moslem will achieve salvation - unless u can find me a quote that does.

a sufi saint for example, is technically a "muslim" yet does not do any of the stuff your typical sunni muslim would do. they are peaceful and focussed on meditation. this kind of person will get mukti (MAYBE).

if a hindu does pooja all his life, nothing will happen. but then again hindus have no structure or code of conduct to their religion. if a hindu spends his entire life meditating on 1 almightly god and reaches brahmgyani stage, then he will get to god.

personally i believe that since very few people meditate alot and do this, its mostly sikhs who go to saackhand, but even your vast majority of sikhs dont make it. doing namaaz daily isnt enough, guru says that for salvation you need the gift of naam...once that is obtained u r sorted

there was a wiked guru gobind singh quote from triyah chariter that says there is one truth, but accord to ones intellect it is expressed in a myriad of ways................

[Guest]

Dear Dhoor721,

Please read what Guru ji's message is and its pretty clear.

Guru Granth Sahib's hyms for salvation!

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...opic.php?t=1466

Please, finish reading Guru Granth Sahib's message first and then we will discuss it in details.

[Guest]

Message for Pandit, Bhagaautee, Vaishnaav from Gurbani!

Page 274

The God-conscious being is himself the Formless Lord. The glory of the God-conscious being belongs to the God-conscious being alone. O Nanak, the God-conscious being is the Lord of all. || 8 || 8 || SHALOK: One who enshrines the Naam within the heart, who sees the Lord God in all, who, each and every moment, bows in reverence to the Lord Master - O Nanak, such a one is the true 'touch-nothing Saint', who emancipates everyone. || 1 || ASHTAPADEE: One whose tongue does not touch falsehood; whose mind is filled with love for the Blessed Vision of the Pure Lord, whose eyes do not gaze upon the beauty of others' wives, who serves the Holy and loves the Saints' Congregation, whose ears do not listen to slander against anyone, who deems himself to be the worst of all, who, by Guru's Grace, renounces corruption, who banishes the mind's evil desires from his mind, who conquers his sexual instincts and is free of the five sinful passions - O Nanak, among millions, there is scarcely one such 'touch-nothing Saint'. || 1 || The true Vaishnaav, the devotee of Vishnu, is the one with whom God is thoroughly pleased. He dwells apart from Maya. Performing good deeds, he does not seek rewards. Spotlessly pure is the religion of such a Vaishnaav; he has no desire for the fruits of his labors. He is absorbed in devotional worship and the singing of Kirtan, the songs of the Lord's Glory. Within his mind and body, he meditates in remembrance on the Lord of the Universe. He is kind to all creatures. He holds fast to the Naam, and inspires others to chant it. O Nanak, such a Vaishnaav obtains the supreme status. || 2 || The true Bhagaautee, the devotee of Adi Shakti, loves the devotional worship of God. He forsakes the company of all wicked people. All doubts are removed from his mind. He performs devotional service to the Supreme Lord God in all. In the Company of the Holy, the filth of sin is washed away. The wisdom of such a Bhagaautee becomes supreme. He constantly performs the service of the Supreme Lord God. He dedicates his mind and body to the Love of God. The Lotus Feet of the Lord abide in his heart. O Nanak, such a Bhagaautee attains the Lord God. || 3 || He is a true Pandit, a religious scholar, who instructs his own mind. He searches for the Lord's Name within his own soul. He drinks in the Exquisite Nectar of the Lord's Name. By that Pandit's teachings, the world lives. He implants the Sermon of the Lord in his heart. Such a Pandit is not cast into the womb of reincarnation again. He understands the fundamental essence of the Vedas, the Puraanas and the Simritees. In the unmanifest, he sees the manifest world to exist. He gives instruction to people of all castes and social classes. O Nanak, to such a Pandit, I bow in salutation forever. || 4 || The Beej Mantra, the Seed Mantra, is spiritual wisdom for everyone. Anyone, from any class, may chant the Naam. Whoever chants it, is emancipated. And yet, rare are those who attain it, in the Company of the Holy. By His Grace, He enshrines it within. Even beasts, ghosts and the stone-hearted are saved. The Naam is the panacea, the remedy to cure all ills. Singing the Glory of God is the embodiment of bliss and emancipation. It cannot be obtained by any religious rituals. O Nanak, he alone obtains it, whose karma is so pre-ordained. || 5 ||

[Guest]

Sri Guru Granth Sahib

pg 902

RAAMKALEE, FIRST MEHL, ASHTAPADEES:

ONE UNIVERSAL CREATOR GOD. BY THE GRACE OF THE TRUE GURU:

The same moon rises, and the same stars; the same sun shines in the sky. The earth is the same, and the same wind blows. The age in which we dwell affects living beings, but not these places. || 1 || Give up your attachment to life. Those who act like tyrants are accepted and approved - recognize that this is the sign of the Dark Age of Kali Yuga. || 1 || Pause || Kali Yuga has not been heard to have come to any country, or to be sitting at any sacred shrine. It is not where the generous person gives to charities, nor seated in the mansion he has built. || 2 || If someone practices Truth, he is frustrated; prosperity does not come to the home of the sincere. If someone chants the Lord's Name, he is scorned. These are the signs of Kali Yuga. || 3 || Whoever is in charge, is humiliated. Why should the servant be afraid, when the master is put in chains? He dies at the hands of his servant.

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|| 4 || Chant the Praises of the Lord; Kali Yuga has come. The justice of the previous three ages is gone. One obtains virtue, only if the Lord bestows it. || 1 || Pause || In this turbulent age of Kali Yuga, Muslim law decides the cases, and the blue-robed Qazi is the judge. The Guru's Bani has taken the place of Brahma's Veda, and the singing of the Lord's Praises are good deeds. || 5 || Worship without faith; self-discipline without truthfulness; the ritual of the sacred thread without chastity - what good are these? You may bathe and wash, and apply a ritualistic tilak mark to your forehead, but without inner purity, there is no understanding. || 6 || In Kali Yuga, the Koran and the Bible have become famous. The Pandit's scriptures and the Puraanas are not respected. O Nanak, the Lord's Name now is Rehmaan, the Merciful. Know that there is only One Creator of the creation. || 7 || Nanak has obtained the glorious greatness of the Naam, the Name of the Lord. There is no action higher than this. If someone goes out to beg for what is already in his own home, then he should be chastised. || 8 || 1 || RAAMKALEE, FIRST MEHL: You preach to the world, and set up your house. Abandoning your Yogic postures, how will you find the True Lord? You are attached to possessiveness and the love of sexual pleasure. You are not a renunciate, nor a man of the world. || 1 || Yogi, remain seated, and the pain of duality will run away from you. You beg from door to door, and you don't feel ashamed. || 1 || Pause || You sing the songs, but you do not understand your own self. How will the burning pain within be relieved? Through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, let your mind be absorbed in the Lord's Love, and you will intuitively experience the charity of contemplation. || 2 || You apply ashes to your body, while acting in hypocrisy. Attached to Maya, you will be beaten by Death's heavy club. Your begging bowl is broken; it will not hold the charity of the Lord's Love. Bound in bondage, you come and go. || 3 || You do not control your seed and semen, and yet you claim to practice abstinence. You beg from Maya, lured by the three qualities. You have no compassion; the Lord's Light does not shine in you. You are drowned, drowned in worldly entanglements. || 4 || You wear religious robes, and your patched coat assumes many disguises. You play all sorts of false tricks, like a juggler. The fire of anxiety burns brightly within you. Without the karma of good actions, how can you cross over? || 5 || You make ear-rings of glass to wear in your ears. But liberation does not come from learning without understanding. You are lured by the tastes of the tongue and sex organs. You have become a beast; this sign cannot be erased. || 6 || The people of the world are entangled in the three modes; the Yogis are entangled in the three modes. Contemplating the Word of the Shabad, sorrows are dispelled. Through the Shabad, one becomes radiant, pure and truthful. One who contemplates the true lifestyle is a Yogi. || 7 || The nine treasures are with You, Lord; You are potent, the Cause of causes. You establish and disestablish; whatever You do, happens. One who practices celibacy, chastity, self-control, truth and pure consciousness - O Nanak, that Yogi is the friend of the three worlds. || 8 || 2 || RAAMKALEE, FIRST MEHL: Above the six chakras of the body dwells the detached mind. Awareness of the vibration of the Word of the Shabad has been awakened deep within. The unstruck melody of the sound current resonates and resounds within; my mind is attuned to it. Through the Guru's Teachings, my faith is confirmed in the True Name. || 1 || O mortal, through devotion to the Lord, peace is obtained.

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The Lord, Har, Har, seems sweet to the Gurmukh, who merges in the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. || 1 || Pause || Eradicating attachment to Maya, one merges into the Lord. Meeting with the True Guru, we unite in His Union. The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is a priceless jewel, a diamond. Attuned to it, the mind is comforted and encouraged. || 2 || The diseases of egotism and possessiveness do not afflict one who worships the Lord. Fear of the Messenger of Death runs away. The Messenger of Death, the enemy of the soul, does not touch me at all. The Immaculate Name of the Lord illuminates my heart. || 3 || Contemplating the Shabad, we become Nirankaari - we come to belong to the Formless Lord God. Awakening to the Guru's Teachings, evil-mindedness is taken away. Remaining awake and aware night and day, lovingly focused on the Lord, one becomes Jivan Mukta - liberated while yet alive. He finds this state deep within himself. || 4 || In the secluded cave, I remain unattached. With the Word of the Shabad, I have killed the five thieves. My mind does not waver or go to the home of any other. I remain intuitively absorbed deep within. || 5 || As Gurmukh, I remain awake and aware, unattached. Forever detached, I am woven into the essence of reality. The world is asleep; it dies, and comes and goes in reincarnation. Without the Word of the Guru's Shabad, it does not understand. || 6 || The unstruck sound current of the Shabad vibrates day and night. The Gurmukh knows the state of the eternal, unchanging Lord God. When someone realizes the Shabad, then he truly knows. The One Lord is permeating and pervading everywhere in Nirvaanaa. || 7 || My mind is intuitively absorbed in the state of deepest Samaadhi; renouncing egotism and greed, I have come to know the One Lord. When the disciple's mind accepts the Guru, O Nanak, duality is eradicated, and he merges in the Lord. || 8 || 3 || RAAMKALEE, FIRST MEHL: You calculate the auspicious days, but you do not understand that the One Creator Lord is above these auspicious days. He alone knows the way, who meets the Guru. When one follows the Guru's Teachings, then he realizes the Hukam of God's Command. || 1 || Do not tell lies, O Pandit; O religious scholar, speak the Truth. When egotism is eradicated through the Word of the Shabad, then one finds His home. || 1 || Pause || Calculating and counting, the astrologer draws the horoscope. He studies it and announces it, but he does not understand reality. Understand, that the Word of the Guru's Shabad is above all. Do not speak of anything else; it is all just ashes. || 2 || You bathe, wash, and worship stones. But without being imbued with the Lord, you are the filthiest of the filthy. Subduing your pride, you shall receive the supreme wealth of God. The mortal is liberated and emancipated, meditating on the Lord. || 3 || You study the arguments, but do not contemplate the Vedas. You drown yourself - how will you save your ancestors? How rare is that person who realizes that God is in each and every heart. When one meets the True Guru, then he understands. || 4 || Making his calculations, cynicism and suffering afflict his soul. Seeking the Sanctuary of the Guru, peace is found. I sinned and made mistakes, but now I seek Your Sanctuary. The Guru led me to meet the Lord, according to my past actions. || 5 || If one does not enter the Guru's Sanctuary, God cannot be found. Deluded by doubt, one is born, only to die, and come back again. Dying in corruption, he is bound and gagged at Death's door. The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is not in his heart, and he does not act according to the Shabad. || 6 || Some call themselves Pandits, religious scholars and spiritual teachers.

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Tinged with double-mindedness, they do not find the Mansion of the Lord's Presence. One who takes the Support of the Naam, by Guru's Grace, is a rare person, one among millions, incomparable. || 7 || One is bad, and another good, but the One True Lord is contained in all. Understand this, O spiritual teacher, through the support of the True Guru: rare indeed is that Gurmukh, who realizes the One Lord. His comings and goings cease, and he merges in the Lord. || 8 || Those who have the One Universal Creator Lord within their hearts, possess all virtues; they contemplate the True Lord. One who acts in harmony with the Guru's Will, O Nanak, is absorbed in the Truest of the True. || 9 || 4 || RAAMKALEE, FIRST MEHL: Practicing restraint by Hatha Yoga, the body wears away. The mind is not softened by fasting or austerities. Nothing else is equal to worship of the Lord's Name. || 1 || Serve the Guru, O mind, and associate with the humble servants of the Lord. The tyrannical Messenger of Death cannot touch you, and the serpent of Maya cannot sting you, when you drink in the sublime essence of the Lord. || 1 || Pause || The world reads the arguments, and is softened only by music. In the three modes and corruption, they are born and die. Without the Lord's Name, they endure suffering and pain. || 2 || The Yogi draws the breath upwards, and opens the Tenth Gate. He practices inner cleansing and the six rituals of purification. But without the Lord's Name, the breath he draws is useless. || 3 || The fire of the five passions burns within him; how can he be calm? The thief is within him; how can he taste the taste? One who becomes Gurmukh conquers the body-fortress. || 4 || With filth within, he wanders around at places of pilgrimage. His mind is not pure, so what is the use of performing ritual cleansings? He carries the karma of his own past actions; who else can he blame? || 5 || He does not eat food; he tortures his body. Without the Guru's wisdom, he is not satisfied. The self-willed manmukh is born only to die, and be born again. || 6 || Go, and ask the True Guru, and associate with the Lord's humble servants. Your mind shall merge into the Lord, and you shall not be reincarnated to die again. Without the Lord's Name, what can anyone do? || 7 || Silence the mouse scurrying around within you. Serve the Primal Lord, by chanting the Lord's Name. O Nanak, God blesses us with His Name, when He grants His Grace. || 8 || 5 || RAAMKALEE, FIRST MEHL: The created Universe emanated from within You; there is no other at all. Whatever is said to be, is from You, O God. He is the True Lord and Master, throughout the ages. Creation and destruction do not come from anyone else. || 1 || Such is my Lord and Master, profound and unfathomable. Whoever meditates on Him, finds peace. The arrow of the Messenger of Death does not strike one who has the Name of the Lord. || 1 || Pause || The Naam, the Name of the Lord, is a priceless jewel, a diamond. The True Lord Master is immortal and immeasurable. That tongue which chants the True Name is pure. The True Lord is in the home of the self; there is no doubt about it. || 2 || Some sit in the forests, and some make their home in the mountains. Forgetting the Naam, they rot away in egotistical pride. Without the Naam, what is the use of spiritual wisdom and meditation? The Gurmukhs are honored in the Court of the Lord. || 3 || Acting stubbornly in egotism, one does not find the Lord.

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Studying the scriptures, reading them to other people, and wandering around at places of pilgrimage, the disease is not taken away. Without the Naam, how can one find peace? || 4 || No matter how much he tries, he cannot control his semen and seed. His mind wavers, and he falls into hell. Bound and gagged in the City of Death, he is tortured. Without the Name, his soul cries out in agony. || 5 || The many Siddhas and seekers, silent sages and demi-gods cannot satisfy themselves by practicing restraint through Hatha Yoga. One who contemplates the Word of the Shabad, and serves the Guru - his mind and body become immaculate, and his egotistical pride is obliterated. || 6 || Blessed with Your Grace, I obtain the True Name. I remain in Your Sanctuary, in loving devotion. Love for Your devotional worship has welled up within me. As Gurmukh, I chant and meditate on the Lord's Name. || 7 || When one is rid of egotism and pride, his mind is drenched in the Lord's Love. Practicing fraud and hypocrisy, he does not find God. Without the Word of the Guru's Shabad, he cannot find the Lord's Door. O Nanak, the Gurmukh contemplates the essence of reality. || 8 || 6 || RAAMKALEE, FIRST MEHL: As you come, so will you leave, you fool; as you were born, so will you die. As you enjoy pleasures, so will you suffer pain. Forgetting the Naam, the Name of the Lord, you will fall into the terrifying world-ocean. || 1 || Gazing upon your body and wealth, you are so proud. Your love for gold and sexual pleasures increases; why have you forgotten the Naam, and why do you wander in doubt? || 1 || Pause || You do not practice truth, abstinence, self-discipline or humility; the ghost within your skeleton has turned to dry wood. You have not practiced charity, donations, cleansing baths or austerities. Without the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, your life has gone in vain. || 2 || Attached to greed, you have forgotten the Naam. Coming and going, your life has been ruined. When the Messenger of Death grabs you by your hair, you will be punished. You are unconscious, and have fallen into Death's mouth. || 3 || Day and night, you jealously slander others; in your heart, you have neither the Naam, nor compassion for all. Without the Word of the Guru's Shabad, you will not find salvation or honor. Without the Lord's Name, you shall go to hell. || 4 || In an instant, you change into various costumes, like a juggler; you are entangled in emotional attachment and sin. You gaze here and there upon the expanse of Maya; you are intoxicated with attachment to Maya. || 5 || You act in corruption, and put on ostentatious shows, but without awareness of the Shabad, you have fallen into confusion. You suffer great pain from the disease of egotism. Following the Guru's Teachings, you shall be rid of this disease. || 6 || Seeing peace and wealth come to him, the faithless cynic become proud in his mind. But He who owns this body and wealth, takes them back again, and then the mortal feels anxiety and pain deep within. || 7 || At the very last instant, nothing goes along with you; all is visible only by His Mercy. God is our Primal and Infinite Lord; enshrining the Lord's Name in the heart, one crosses over. || 8 || You weep for the dead, but who hears you weeping? The dead have fallen to the serpent in the terrifying world-ocean.

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Gazing upon his family, wealth, household and mansions, the faithless cynic is entangled in worthless worldly affairs. || 9 || He comes when the Lord sends him; when the Lord calls him back, he goes. Whatever he does, the Lord is doing. The Forgiving Lord forgives him. || 10 || I seek to be with those who have tasted this sublime essence of the Lord. Wealth, miraculous spiritual powers, wisdom and spiritual knowledge, are obtained from the Guru. The treasure of liberation is obtained in His Sanctuary. || 11 || The Gurmukh looks upon pain and pleasure as one and the same; he remains untouched by joy and sorrow. Conquering his self-conceit, the Gurmukh finds the Lord; O Nanak, he intuitively merges into the Lord. || 12 || 7 || RAAMKALEE, DAKHANEE, FIRST MEHL: Abstinence, chastity, self-control and truthfulness have been implanted within me; I am imbued with the sublime essence of the True Word of the Shabad. || 1 || My Merciful Guru remains forever imbued with the Lord's Love. Day and night, He remains lovingly focused on the One Lord; gazing upon the True Lord, He is pleased. || 1 || Pause || He abides in the Tenth Gate, and looks equally upon all; He is imbued with the unstruck sound current of the Shabad. || 2 || Wearing the loin-cloth of chastity, He remains absorbed in the all-pervading Lord; His tongue enjoys the taste of God's Love. || 3 || The One who created the creation has met the True Guru; contemplating the Guru's lifestyle, He is pleased. || 4 || All are in the One, and the One is in all. This is what the True Guru has shown me. || 5 || He who created the worlds, solar systems and galaxies - that God cannot be known. || 6 || From the lamp of God, the lamp within is lit; the Divine Light illuminates the three worlds. || 7 || The Guru sits on the true throne in the true mansion; He is attuned, absorbed in the Fearless Lord. || 8 || The Guru, the detached Yogi, has enticed the hearts of all; He plays His harp in each and every heart. || 9 || O Nanak, in God's Sanctuary, one is emancipated; the True Guru becomes our true help and support. || 10 || 8 || RAAMKALEE, FIRST MEHL: He has made His home in the monastery of the heart; He has infused His power into the earth and the sky. || 1 || Through the Word of the Shabad, the Gurmukhs have saved so very many, O Saints. || 1 || Pause || He conquers attachment, and eradicates egotism, and sees Your Divine Light pervading the three worlds, Lord. || 2 || He conquers desire, and enshrines the Lord within his mind; he contemplates the Word of the True Guru's Shabad. || 3 || The horn of consciousness vibrates the unstruck sound current; Your Light illuminates each and every heart, Lord. || 4 || He plays the flute of the universe in his mind, and lights the fire of God. || 5 || Bringing together the five elements, day and night, the Lord's lamp shines with the Immaculate Light of the Infinite. || 6 || The right and left nostrils, the sun and the moon channels, are the strings of the body-harp; they vibrate the wondrous melody of the Shabad. || 7 || The true hermit obtains a seat in the City of God, the invisible, inaccessible, infinite. || 8 || The mind is the king of the city of the body; the five sources of knowledge dwell within it. || 9 || Seated in his home, this king chants the Shabad; he administers justice and virtue. || 10 || What can poor death or birth say to him? Conquering his mind, he remains dead while yet alive.

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|| 11 || Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are manifestations of the One God. He Himself is the Doer of deeds. || 12 || One who purifies his body, crosses over the terrifying world-ocean; he contemplates the essence of his own soul. || 13 || Serving the Guru, he finds everlasting peace; deep within, the Shabad permeates him, coloring him with virtue. || 14 || The Giver of virtue unites with Himself, one who conquers egotism and desire. || 15 || Eradicating the three qualities, dwell in the fourth state. This is the unparalleled devotional worship. || 16 || This is the Yoga of the Gurmukh: Through the Shabad, he understands his own soul, and he enshrines within his heart the One Lord. || 17 || Imbued with the Shabad, his mind becomes steady and stable; this is the most excellent action. || 18 || This true hermit does not enter into religious debates or hypocrisy; the Gurmukh contemplates the Shabad. || 19 || The Gurmukh practices Yoga - he is the true hermit; he practices abstinence and truth, and contemplates the Shabad. || 20 || One who dies in the Shabad and conquers his mind is the true hermit; he understands the Way of Yoga. || 21 || Attachment to Maya is the terrifying world-ocean; through the Shabad, the true hermit saves himself, and his ancestors as well. || 22 || Contemplating the Shabad, you shall be a hero throughout the four ages, O hermit; contemplate the Word of the Guru's Bani in devotion. || 23 || This mind is enticed by Maya, O hermit; contemplating the Shabad, you shall find release. || 24 || He Himself forgives, and unites in His Union; Nanak seeks Your Sanctuary, Lord. || 25 || 9 ||

[Guest]

Guru Granth Sahib's message for muslims.

MARU, FIFTH MEHL: Page-1083

O slave of the inaccessible Lord God Allah, forsake thoughts of worldly entanglements. Become the dust of the feet of the humble fakeers, and consider yourself a traveller on this journey. O saintly dervish, you shall be approved in the Court of the Lord. || 1 || Let Truth be your prayer, and faith your prayer-mat. Subdue your desires, and overcome your hopes. Let your body be the mosque, and your mind the priest. Let true purity be God's Word for you. || 2 || Let your practice be to live the spiritual life. Let your spiritual cleansing be to renounce the world and seek God. Let control of the mind be your spiritual wisdom, O holy man; meeting with God, you shall never die again. || 3 || Practice within your heart the teachings of the Koran and the Bible; restrain the ten sensory organs from straying into evil. Tie up the five demons of desire with faith, charity and contentment, and you shall be acceptable. || 4 || Let compassion be your Mecca, and the dust of the feet of the holy your

fast. Let Paradise be your practice of the Prophetís Word. God is the beauty, the light and the fragrance. Meditation on Allah is the secluded meditation chamber. || 5 ||

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He alone is a Qazi, who practices the Truth. He alone is a Haji, a pilgrim to Mecca, who purifies his heart. He alone is a Mullah, who banishes evil; he alone is a saintly dervish, who takes the Support of the Lordís Praise. || 6 || Always, at every moment, remember God, the Creator within your heart. Let your meditation beads be the subjugation of the ten senses. Let good conduct and self-restraint be your circumcision. || 7 || You must know in your heart that everything is temporary. Family, household and siblings are all entanglements. Kings, rulers and nobles are mortal and transitory; only Godís Gate is the permanent place. || 8 || First, is the Lordís Praise; second, contentment; third, humility, and fourth, giving to charities. Fifth is to hold oneís desires in restraint. These are the five most sublime daily prayers. || 9 || Let your daily worship be the knowledge that God is everywhere. Let renunciation of evil actions be the water-jug you carry. Let realization of the One Lord God be your call to prayer; be a good child of God ó let this be your trumpet. || 10 || Let what is earned righteously be your blessed food. Wash away pollution with the river of your heart. One who realizes the Prophet attains heaven. Azraa-eel, the

Messenger of Death, does not cast him into hell. || 11 || Let good deeds be your body, and faith your bride. Play and enjoy the Lord's love and delight. Purify what is impure, and let the Lord's Presence be your religious tradition. Let your total awareness be the turban on your head. || 12 || To be Muslim is to be kind-hearted, and wash away pollution from within the heart. He does not even approach worldly pleasures; he is pure, like flowers, silk, ghee and the deer-skin. || 13 || One who

is blessed with the mercy and compassion of the Merciful Lord, is the manliest man among men. He alone is a Shaykh, a preacher, a Haji, and he alone is God's slave, who is blessed with God's Grace. || 14 || The Creator Lord has Creative Power; the Merciful Lord has Mercy. The Praises and the Love of the Merciful Lord are unfathomable. Realize the True Hukam, the Command of the Lord, O Nanak; you shall be released from bondage, and carried across. || 15 || 3 || 12 ||

[Einstein singh]

(i have only read like half of all the posts, so forgive me if i repeat points already made)

to answer the question of this thread, yes, rituals can be baseless and a waist of time, but with any thing u do in life and sikhi, without adequate understanding of what ur doing and why r doing it, it can become a ritualistic practice ie: bowing down infront of ur guru, doing lava in marriage.....get my point?

i think the point bani is trying to convey is that parrot fashion worshiping won't get u any were, whether it be hinduism or sikhi, as knowing is not enough, we must apply, and 'galli yogg na hoi'.....etc.

Once i went to one of our family friends house who is a hindu and is very devout, she has a seperate room 4 pooja, she was showing it to us and i notices she had loads of stones on the sink, i asked her what they were for and she said that she washes them each morning (with milk i think) -- that was part of her daily practice (ritual) --- now the first that came to my mind was that 'rituals don't get u anywhere-- how can she b still believe in such a thing in this day n age ' then i thought 'wait a second, this woman gets up every morning, wahses these stones and does her pooja, if u look at it, she is doing simran!! -- then i thought, whats wrong with that hunna!!

whats i think it boils down to is that no matter what faith u belong to, it's easy to get cought up in daily practices that we begin to do them and loose focus on why we are doing what we doing, it's just as important to know what ur doing as well as practising it whole heartedly........so i don't think this is a paradox in bani.

[jsb]

i think what dhoor means is that our religion says hindus can't achieve salvation, and our baani says this. but hindu's various sources of guidance and information tell them that by practising these rituals, you WILL achieve salvation.. so therefore is there any one true religion?

Gurbani can back up our beliefs, but they don't back up other's beliefs... you guys get what i mean....

[Einstein singh]

i feel that each religion and faith overlap in belief @ some point, and i think these core principles are the true religion......we get variations in understanding and different sects forming when 'human' interpretation get involoved.....as individulas we all have the capacity of seeing the same thing and interpretting it in our own way (due to diffrenece in intellect and upbringing etc.)

There is an astpadi in sukhmani sahib that talkes about ritual (don't remember it off by heart, but can get u the exact quote if u like)

- it says that if u perform many religious rituals and are proud of them, then they all go to waist, as having pride in doing a poius deed just defeats the piont, --- think about it, how many sikhs in the world really understand the significance and importance of say doing an akhand paath??, they will pay the money, and just go for the bhog, is this not a ritual, only because we are sikhs doesn't mean we will get automatic salvation in doing such rituals?? because ur only getting the paath done for the sake of it, and if u have pride over this, then u might as well not do anything......so i think regardless of religion, everything we do is a ritual, unless we UNDERSTAND what we are doing, regardless of which religion u belong to.

also, Bani may have reffered 2 hindus and muslims 2 explain this point, but this may be purley as a source of good analogy!......so that people (of those days and now) could relate to it and make sence of it..............(i back this up by saying that in chopei sahib, there is a tukh that says that waheguru does kirpa on all creatures, from the ant to an elephant: from this, bani is saying that kirpa is done on all forms of creature, but to be more exact, the guru could have said 'waheguru does kirpa on all, from the ameoba to the blue whale'....but how many people would understand that?--so they use examples that more people are familiar with)

hope that makes sence!