paapiman Posted October 3, 2018 Report Share Posted October 3, 2018 Warning: Sexually explicit material below. Daas will kindly request sangat, below the age of 25 or people who are greatly affected by Lust, to stay away from this discussion. Please read the Charitar: Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 Reading this, these thpoughts come to mind: 1. The Queen was acting independently of her husband in a crucial matter that should have concerned them both - the wedding of their daughter. The Queen acts unilaterally, as does Raja Chitar Sen with his death sentence on his child. 2. The Queen then in order to fulfill her quest of her daughter's marriage has to defer to deceit to bring her plans to fruition. Just as the Queen did in the root story (although she was not successful). 3. The idea of the the smaller casket within a larger casket, in order to fool the King is reflected in the state that the Queen in the root story presented herself to Raja Chittar Sen. 4. It was the King who gave the death sentence unknowingly in the root story and in this story, it the King who then orders the casket(s) to be taken from the palace and distributed to the poor - given in daan. Sending a daughter off to her inlaws is also called kanya daan. By his own order he sent his daughter away from the palace to be given away. 5. Another thought that came to mind was the King was a learned man, yet prone to outbursts. 6. The smaller casket is also packed with jewels as a dowry for the girl, meaning the Queen thought of every detail. Not just in getting the daughter out of the palace but providing for her life after that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted February 4, 2019 Report Share Posted February 4, 2019 Another thing that is implicit here is that the rani must have seen something in the young man that she found very attractive. Something that her husband lacked perhaps? That's why she was so keen to get her daughter married off to him. This must have been outside of wealth and status because the young man was disguised as a mendicant. I have to say at this point. I don't think all chariters are necessarily directly related to the over framing root tale. I've also heard that Bindra's work was essentially an English translation of a Panjabi translation. This makes me feel that we are missing important subtle nuances in the original. It can't be that CP is essentially a monotonous repeating of the point in the first over-arching tale. That breaks all rules of good writing. There is much more to this than a surface reading would give. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted February 7, 2019 Report Share Posted February 7, 2019 On 2/4/2019 at 1:14 PM, dalsingh101 said: Another thing that is implicit here is that the rani must have seen something in the young man that she found very attractive. Something that her husband lacked perhaps? That's why she was so keen to get her daughter married off to him. This must have been outside of wealth and status because the young man was disguised as a mendicant. I'm not sure about that but I understnad where you are coming from. For me the thoughts of the young man in the casket tell me that he was certain his end had come. He was rueing the lack of facilities/options available to him when he was in a serious life-threatening predicament. Maybe that is something that the charitar also wants to reveal? On 2/4/2019 at 1:14 PM, dalsingh101 said: I have to say at this point. I don't think all chariters are necessarily directly related to the over framing root tale. Yes I'm beginning to think that the nature of the charitars has moved onto a more wider sphere. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted February 8, 2019 Report Share Posted February 8, 2019 On 2/7/2019 at 4:12 PM, chatanga1 said: I'm not sure about that but I understnad where you are coming from. For me the thoughts of the young man in the casket tell me that he was certain his end had come. He was rueing the lack of facilities/options available to him when he was in a serious life-threatening predicament. Maybe that is something that the charitar also wants to reveal? Yes I'm beginning to think that the nature of the charitars has moved onto a more wider sphere. We need the original. The ending sentences of this are significant too. I think these are political/military strategies that have been coded. Like you alluded to, this one suggests being caught out without resources by the enemy. It speaks of being prepared. Then when we look at the next chariter, it seems to elaborate on this. I don't know if we should openly discuss these any more. It might give our enemies ideas and insights that we are better off hiding from them? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted February 10, 2019 Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 On 2/8/2019 at 12:57 PM, dalsingh101 said: We need the original. I will start adding those here. ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ ਮਹਾਰਾਸਟ੍ਰ ਕੇ ਦੇਸ ਮੈ ਮਹਾਰਾਸਟ੍ਰ ਪਤਿ ਰਾਵ ॥ ਦਰਬੁ ਬਟਾਵੈ ਗੁਨਿ ਜਨਨ ਕਰਤ ਕਬਿਨ ਕੋ ਭਾਵ ॥੧॥ ਚੌਪਈ ॥ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਮਤੀ ਤਾ ਕੀ ਪਟਰਾਨੀ ॥ ਸੁੰਦਰਿ ਸਕਲ ਭਵਨ ਮੈ ਜਾਨੀ ॥ ਅਤਿ ਰਾਜਾ ਤਾ ਕੇ ਬਸਿ ਰਹੈ ॥ ਜੋ ਵਹੁ ਕਹੈ ਵਹੈ ਨ੍ਰਿਪ ਕਹੈ ॥੨॥ ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ ਮੋਹਨ ਸਿੰਘ ਸਪੂਤ ਸਭ ਦ੍ਰਾਵੜ ਦੇਸਹਿ ਏਸ ॥ ਮਹਾਰਾਸਟ੍ਰ ਪਤਿ ਨਗਰ ਮੈ ਗਯੋ ਅਥਿਤ ਕੇ ਭੇਸ ॥੩॥ ਚੌਪਈ ॥ ਜਬ ਰਾਨੀ ਤਿਹ ਓਰ ਨਿਹਾਰਿਯੋ ॥ ਯਹੈ ਆਪਨੇ ਹ੍ਰਿਦੈ ਬਿਚਾਰਿਯੋ ॥ ਜੋਗਿਨ ਯਹ ਰਾਜਾ ਸੋ ਲਹਿਯੈ ॥ ਭੇਜਿ ਮਾਨੁਖਨ ਯਾ ਕੌ ਗਹਿਯੈ ॥੪॥ ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ ਭੇਜਿ ਮਾਨੁਖਨ ਗਹਿ ਲਯੋ ਲੀਨੋ ਧਾਮ ਬੁਲਾਇ ॥ ਦੁਹਿਤਾ ਦਈ ਬਿਵਾਹਿ ਕੈ ਜਾਨਿ ਦੇਸ ਕੌ ਰਾਇ ॥੫॥ ਬਚਨ ਸੁਨਤ ਨ੍ਰਿਪ ਰਿਸਿ ਭਰਿਯੋ ਛੋਡਿ ਰਾਮ ਕੋ ਜਾਪ ॥ ਦੁਹਿਤਾ ਦਈ ਬਿਵਾਹਿ ਤਿਹ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਮਾਇ ਨ ਬਾਪ ॥੬॥ ਰਾਜਾ ਬਾਚ ॥ ਚੌਪਈ ਮਾਇ ਨ ਬਾਪ ਜਾਨਿਯਤ ਜਾ ਕੌ ॥ ਦੁਹਿਤਾ ਕਹੂ ਦੀਜਿਯਤ ਤਾ ਕੌ ॥ ਯਾ ਕੌ ਅਬੈ ਬਾਂਧਿ ਕਰਿ ਮਾਰੋ ॥ ਰਾਨੀ ਦੁਹਤਾ ਸਹਿਤ ਸੰਘਾਰੋ ॥੭॥ ਰਾਨੀ ਬਚਨ ਸੁਨਤ ਡਰਿ ਗਈ ॥ ਚੀਨਤ ਕਛੂ ਉਪਾਇ ਨ ਭਈ ॥ ਜਾ ਤੇ ਜਾਮਾਤਾ ਨਹਿ ਮਰਿਯੈ ॥ ਸੁਤਾ ਸਹਿਤ ਇਹ ਜਿਯਤ ਨਿਕਰਿਯੈ ॥੮॥ ਰਾਨੀ ਏਕ ਮੰਗਾਇ ਪਿਟਾਰੋ ॥ ਦੁਹੂੰਅਨ ਦੁਹੂੰ ਕਨਾਰੇ ਡਾਰੋ ॥ ਏਕ ਪਿਟਾਰੋ ਔਰ ਮੰਗਾਯੋ ॥ ਵਹ ਪਿਟਾਰ ਤਿਹ ਭੀਤਰ ਪਾਯੋ ॥੯॥ ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ ਅੰਤਰ ਹੂੰ ਕੇ ਪਿਟਾਰ ਮੈ ਡਾਰੇ ਰਤਨ ਅਪਾਰ ॥ ਤਿਹ ਢਕਨੌ ਦੈ ਦੁਤਿਯ ਮੈ ਦਈ ਮਿਠਾਈ ਡਾਰਿ ॥੧੦॥ ਚੌਪਈ ॥ ਦੁਤਿਯ ਪਿਟਾਰ ਮਿਠਾਈ ਡਾਰੀ ॥ ਵਹ ਪਿਟਾਰ ਨਹਿ ਦੇਤ ਦਿਖਾਰੀ ॥ ਸਭ ਕੋ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਸਿਰੀਨੀ ਆਵੈ ॥ ਤਾ ਕੋ ਭੇਦ ਨ ਕੋਉ ਪਾਵੈ ॥੧੧॥ ਪਠੇ ਚੇਰਿ ਯਹ ਨ੍ਰਿਪਤਿ ਬੁਲਾਯੋ ॥ ਗਹਿ ਬਹਿਯਾ ਸਭ ਸਦਨ ਦਿਖਾਯੋ ॥ ਹਮ ਕਾ ਤੁਮ ਤੇ ਨੈਕ ਨ ਡਰਿ ਹੈ ॥ ਬਿਨੁ ਤਵ ਕਹੇ ਸਗਾਈ ਕਰਿ ਹੈ ॥੧੨॥ ਰਾਨੀ ਬਾਚ ॥ ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ ਚਿਤ ਕੋ ਸੋਕ ਨਿਵਾਰਿ ਕੈ ਰਾਵ ਕਚਹਿਰੀ ਜਾਹੁ ॥ ਤਵ ਹਿਤ ਧਰੀ ਬਨਾਇ ਕੈ ਚਲਹੁ ਮਿਠਾਈ ਖਾਹੁ ॥੧੩॥ ਚੌਪਈ ॥ ਛੋਰਿ ਪਿਟਾਰਿ ਪਕਵਾਨ ਖਵਾਯੋ ॥ ਵਹ ਕਛੁ ਭੇਦ ਰਾਇ ਨਹਿ ਪਾਯੋ ॥ ਪੁਨਿ ਇਹ ਕਹਿਯੋ ਦਾਨ ਕਰਿ ਦੀਜੈ ॥ ਮੇਰੋ ਕਹਿਯੋ ਮਾਨ ਨ੍ਰਿਪ ਲੀਜੈ ॥੧੪॥ ਜਬ ਪਿਟਾਰ ਤਿਹ ਛੋਰਿ ਦਿਖਾਯੋ ॥ ਅਤਿ ਡਰ ਜਾਮਾਤਾ ਮਨ ਆਯੋ ॥ ਅਬ ਹੀ ਮੋਕਹ ਪਕਰਿ ਨਿਕਰਿ ਹੈ ॥ ਬਹੁਰੋ ਬਾਂਧਿ ਮਾਰਹੀ ਡਰਿ ਹੈ ॥੧੫॥ ਹੌ ਇਹ ਠੌਰ ਆਨ ਤ੍ਰਿਯ ਮਾਰਿਯੋ ॥ ਅਬ ਉਪਾਇ ਕ੍ਯਾ ਕਰੋ ਬਿਚਾਰਿਯੋ ॥ ਕਾ ਸੌ ਕਹੌ ਸੰਗ ਕੋਊ ਨਾਹੀ ॥ ਇਹ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਤਾ ਕੇ ਮਨ ਮਾਹੀ ॥੧੬॥ ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ ਸਸਤ੍ਰ ਅਸਤ੍ਰ ਘੋਰਾ ਨਹੀ ਸਾਥੀ ਸੰਗ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥ ਅਤਿ ਮੁਸਕਿਲ ਮੋ ਕੌ ਬਨੀ ਕਰਤਾ ਕਰੈ ਸੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੧੭॥ ਸਾਥੀ ਕੋਊ ਸੰਗ ਨਹੀ ਕਾ ਸੋ ਕਰੋ ਪੁਕਾਰ ॥ ਮਨਸਾ ਬਾਚਾ ਕਰਮਨਾ ਮੋਹਿ ਹਨਿ ਹੈ ਨਿਰਧਾਰ ॥੧੮॥ ਖਾਇ ਮਿਠਾਈ ਰਾਵ ਤਬ ਦੀਯੋ ਪਿਟਾਰੋ ਦਾਨ ॥ ਵਹ ਬਿਵਾਹਿ ਤਿਹ ਲੈ ਗਯੋ ਅਧਿਕ ਹ੍ਰਿਦੈ ਸੁਖੁ ਮਾਨਿ ॥੧੯॥ ਦੁਹਿਤ ਜਾਮਾਤਾ ਸਹਿਤ ਜੀਯਤ ਦਯੋ ਪਠਾਇ ॥ ਸਭ ਦੇਖਤ ਦਿਨ ਕਾਢਿਯੋ ਨ੍ਰਿਪਹਿ ਮਠਾਈ ਖ੍ਵਾਇ ॥੨੦॥ ਚੌਪਈ ॥ ਬਨਿਤਾ ਚਰਿਤ ਹਾਥ ਨਹਿ ਆਯੋ ॥ ਦੈਵ ਦੈਤ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਨਹਿ ਪਾਯੋ ॥ ਤ੍ਰਿਯਾ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਨ ਕਿਸਹੂ ਕਹਿਯੈ ॥ ਚਿਤ ਮੈ ਸਮਝਿ ਮੋਨਿ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਰਹਿਯੋ ॥੨੧॥ ਇਤਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਪਖ੍ਯਾਨੇ ਤ੍ਰਿਯਾ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰੇ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੀ ਭੂਪ ਸੰਬਾਦੇ ਚੌਰਾਸੀਵੋ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਸਮਾਪਤਮ ਸਤੁ ਸੁਭਮ ਸਤੁ ॥੮੪॥੧੫੧੦॥ਅਫਜੂੰ॥ On 2/8/2019 at 12:57 PM, dalsingh101 said: I think these are political/military strategies that have been coded. I'm beginning to think that as well. There just seems to be many layer/angles to it. On 2/8/2019 at 12:57 PM, dalsingh101 said: Like you alluded to, this one suggests being caught out without resources by the enemy. It speaks of being prepared. Also the practice of illusion/camoflage/hidden strikes etc. It reminded me of the time Nawab Kapur Singh and a select body of Sikhs dressed as Muslims to enter a mosque where they had been told Zakaria Khan (I think) was going to perform his friday prayers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted February 25, 2019 Report Share Posted February 25, 2019 On 2/10/2019 at 6:24 PM, chatanga1 said: ਬਨਿਤਾ ਚਰਿਤ ਹਾਥ ਨਹਿ ਆਯੋ ॥ ਦੈਵ ਦੈਤ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਨਹਿ ਪਾਯੋ ॥ ਤ੍ਰਿਯਾ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਨ ਕਿਸਹੂ ਕਹਿਯੈ ॥ ਚਿਤ ਮੈ ਸਮਝਿ ਮੋਨਿ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਰਹਿਯੋ ॥੨੧॥ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted March 22, 2019 Report Share Posted March 22, 2019 Why have you quoted that Dal ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 23, 2019 Report Share Posted March 23, 2019 On 2/25/2019 at 8:27 PM, dalsingh101 said: ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ On 3/22/2019 at 11:29 AM, chatanga1 said: Why have you quoted that Dal ? Wondering exactly what the word chariter means? Found this in an image of an old manuscript of Sukha Singh's Gurbilas: Notice how it starts: ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੀ ਦਸਮੀ ਕੇ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted March 29, 2019 Report Share Posted March 29, 2019 In this context I think it means character. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted May 9, 2019 Report Share Posted May 9, 2019 Was reading "History of the Punjab" and came across this : It's a reference to how people escaped with their lives by hiding in and then being carried out in baskets. An event that we see happening in the charitars on occasion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulfinder Posted May 10, 2019 Report Share Posted May 10, 2019 084 | SRI CHARITRO PAKHEYAN | CHARITAR-84 | INDERMATI | BIBI KULDEEP KAUR KHALSA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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