GurjantGnostic Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 There are different Mukte, but One is reserved. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 5 minutes ago, paapiman said: FOR A SIKH, the above is the maryada for obtaining NAAM. It does NOT apply to non-Sikhs. Daas has already mentioned before that non-Sikh Brahamgyanis can probably also give Naam Daan to their followers. Anyways, we should avoid going around in circles. Bhul chuk maaf Bhagat Kabir Ji received naam from Bhagat Ramanand Ji but still wandered around in thirst of Darshan of Vaheguru. Finally, when he became a Sikh, he received darshan. He was a non Sikh who received naam from a great saint but still didn't get peace. Can you please give any evidence from Gurbani that a 'Brahmgyani' can give naam? Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 On 5/19/2021 at 1:41 AM, paapiman said: So according to you, NO ONE reached Sachkhand in the previous three jugs? Bhul chuk maaf @Trimandeep Singh - Please answer the question above. Have you heard the name of one of the GREATEST Bhagats mentioned in Gurbani? Bhagat Raja Janak jee Maharaaj. He is NOT from Kaljug. Below is a verse of Bhai saab Bhai Gurdas jee. ਭਗਤੁ ਵਡਾ ਰਾਜਾ ਜਨਕੁ ਹੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਵਿਚਿ ਉਦਾਸੀ। Bhul chuk maaf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 I never said that people from previous three yugs weren't liberated. Guru Nanak Dev Ji gave them their darshan. Eg: Bhagat Dhroo Ji. After immense meditation on KIRTAM NAAM, he still couldn't get darshan of Vaheguru. Finally he decided that he wouldn't eat anything until he received darshan. Seeing his thirst and devotion, Guru Nanak Dev Ji gave him his darshan and gave him Amrit. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 12 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Can you please give any evidence from Gurbani that a 'Brahmgyani' can give naam? ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਕੀ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਬਰਸੀ ॥ One of the meanings of Amrit is Naam. ਨਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ॥ Bhul chuk maaf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Eg: Bhagat Dhroo Ji. After immense meditation on KIRTAM NAAM, he still couldn't get darshan of Vaheguru. Finally he decided that he wouldn't eat anything until he received darshan. Seeing his thirst and devotion, Guru Nanak Dev Ji gave him his darshan and gave him Amrit. So similarly, Sri Satguru jee (First Master) can give darshan to non-Sikh Bhagats in this age too and grant them a place in Sachkhand. How hard is that to understand? Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 27 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said: There are different Mukte, but One is reserved. What do you mean bro? Can you please elaborate? Thanks Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 Two saakhis come in my mind. 1) Bhagat Santokh Ji It is said that in Satyug, there was a saint named Santokh. He had a high avastha. Once when he was meditating, he received some antar gyaan that Vaheguru will arrive as Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Kalyug. So he meditated and went in samadhi and didn't stop until Kalyug. Once when Sikhs of Guru Arjan Dev Ji were doing construction of a sarovar (Present Day Sri Santokhsar Sahib), they found Santokh ji in samadhi. They woke him up. As he regained consciousness, the first question he asked was "Which yug is currently going on? " and the Sikhs replied Kalyug. He asked where was Guru Nanak Dev Ji. And the Sikhs replied he's in 'Panjva Jaama" (fifth form). Sarovar was named after him. 2) Bhai Dalla Ji Bhai Dalla Ji was the king of great strong army. He was very egoistic and believed his army to be stronger than Khalsa. Not going in much detail, Guru Sahib showed him the fearlessness of his Tyar Bar Tyar Singhs. Bhai Dalla Ji accepted this and developed a lot of shradhha for guru sahib. He did his Sewa the whole night. The next day, Guru Sahib said to him to ask for something. Bhai sahib said a place in Guru Sahib's Sharan. Guru Sahib said to him, that he may ask for kingdoms and all sorts of worldly things but he cannot give him a place in his Sharan (Sachkhand). Finally Bhai Dalla Ji agreed and became a Singh. Guru Sahib could have asked him to go worship anyone else who was a Brahmgyani. However he said that no-one can get a place in Sachkhand without taking Amrit. Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Two saakhis come in my mind. 1) Bhagat Santokh Ji It is said that in Satyug, there was a saint named Santokh. He had a high avastha. Once when he was meditating, he received some antar gyaan that Vaheguru will arrive as Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Kalyug. So he meditated and went in samadhi and didn't stop until Kalyug. Once when Sikhs of Guru Arjan Dev Ji were doing construction of a sarovar (Present Day Sri Santokhsar Sahib), they found Santokh ji in samadhi. They woke him up. As he regained consciousness, the first question he asked was "Which yug is currently going on? " and the Sikhs replied Kalyug. He asked where was Guru Nanak Dev Ji. And the Sikhs replied he's in 'Panjva Jaama" (fifth form). Sarovar was named after him. 2) Bhai Dalla Ji Bhai Dalla Ji was the king of great strong army. He was very egoistic and believed his army to be stronger than Khalsa. Not going in much detail, Guru Sahib showed him the fearlessness of his Tyar Bar Tyar Singhs. Bhai Dalla Ji accepted this and developed a lot of shradhha for guru sahib. He did his Sewa the whole night. The next day, Guru Sahib said to him to ask for something. Bhai sahib said a place in Guru Sahib's Sharan. Guru Sahib said to him, that he may ask for kingdoms and all sorts of worldly things but he cannot give him a place in his Sharan (Sachkhand). Finally Bhai Dalla Ji agreed and became a Singh. Guru Sahib could have asked him to go worship anyone else who was a Brahmgyani. However he said that no-one can get a place in Sachkhand without taking Amrit. Trimandeep Singh Gurparsaad, there are other Sakhis, which can prove that Maharaaj did not impose the SIKH REHAT on non-Sikhs. Sri Satguru jee (First Master) agreeing to read Namaz with two Muslims fellows. You probably know the details. Maharaaj taught them to recite the Namaz with full love and concentration. Why didn't Sri Satguru jee convert them into Sikhi? Two Muslim saints during the times of Sri Satguru jee (Sixth Master) also received Naam daan from Maharaaj. Maharaaj did not convert them into Sikhi. There are probably more Sakhis out there. Bhul chuk maaf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 15 minutes ago, paapiman said: ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਕੀ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਬਰਸੀ ॥ One of the meanings of Amrit is Naam. ਨਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ॥ Bhul chuk maaf How can you just substitute meanings? In Gurbani, Ram word has been used for Akaal Purakh and Ram Chander Ji also. Can you substitute Raam (Ram Chander) in panktis where Ram has been used for Akaal Purakh. Degh is also referred to as Amrit. Can we substitute it in place of Amrit in pankti, "Amrit Peevoh Sadaa Chir Jeevoh" According to Scholars, every Gurbani Pankti has only one meaning if correct Gurbani Grammar is applied. In the first pankti, it doesn't say that Brahmgyani can give naam. With the sight or glance of Brahmgyani, one receives amrit varkha (kirpa) of guru sahib to go on the right path. In second pankti, guru sahib says one receives nine treasures by meditating on naam. One receives everything when one japs naam. Bhul chuk maaf Trimandeep Singh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 10 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Bhai Dalla Ji was the king of great strong army. He was very egoistic and believed his army to be stronger than Khalsa. Not going in much detail, Guru Sahib showed him the fearlessness of his Tyar Bar Tyar Singhs. Bhai Dalla Ji accepted this and developed a lot of shradhha for guru sahib. He did his Sewa the whole night. The next day, Guru Sahib said to him to ask for something. Bhai sahib said a place in Guru Sahib's Sharan. Guru Sahib said to him, that he may ask for kingdoms and all sorts of worldly things but he cannot give him a place in his Sharan (Sachkhand). Finally Bhai Dalla Ji agreed and became a Singh. Bhai Dalla jee probably wanted to remain a Sikh (WITHOUT taking Khande da Amrit) AND also attain Sackhkhand. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 1 minute ago, paapiman said: Bhai Dalla jee probably wanted to remain a Sikh (WITHOUT taking Khande da Amrit) AND also attain Sackhkhand. Bhul chuk maaf He wanted to reach Sachkhand without Amrit. Guru Sahib said you need to take Amrit and become a Sikh if you want to reach Sachkhand. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Trimandeep Singh said: According to Scholars, every Gurbani Pankti has only one meaning if correct Gurbani Grammar is applied. PURATAN scholars do not completely agree with your above statement. Many verses in Gurbani have multiple meanings. Gurbani cannot be BOUND COMPLETELY by Grammar. One verse in Gurbani has 26 meanings. Bhul chuk maaf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 Just now, Trimandeep Singh said: He wanted to reach Sachkhand without Amrit. Guru Sahib said you need to take Amrit and become a Sikh if you want to reach Sachkhand. Wasn't he already a Sikh of Maharaaj? Many people in the Malwa region had become Sikhs of Maharaaj during the times of earlier Satgurus. Did he follow any OTHER religion? If yes, then we are dealing with an ATHEIST. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 5 minutes ago, paapiman said: Gurparsaad, there are other Sakhis, which can prove that Maharaaj did not impose the SIKH REHAT on non-Sikhs. Sri Satguru jee (First Master) agreeing to read Namaz with two Muslims fellows. You probably know the details. Maharaaj taught them to recite the Namaz with full love and concentration. Why didn't Sri Satguru jee convert them into Sikhi? Two Muslim saints during the times of Sri Satguru jee (Sixth Master) also received Naam daan from Maharaaj. Maharaaj did not convert them into Sikhi. There are probably more Sakhis out there. Bhul chuk maaf Guru Nanak Dev Ji read namaaz, ate halal, ate food with Muslims together on the same table are all stories made by Narakdhari Inder Ghagga. How can Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji give naam without the person agreeing to become a Sikh? One receives naam only when one surrenders himself to Satguru Ji. If one remains a non Sikh, they can probably engage in activities prohibited in sikhi or not in line with Sikhi. Pls give the sources of these saakhis. Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, paapiman said: PURATAN scholars do not completely agree with your above statement. Many verses in Gurbani have multiple meanings. Gurbani cannot be BOUND COMPLETELY by Grammar. One verse in Gurbani has 26 meanings. Bhul chuk maaf Gurbani is not bound by grammar. Gurbani has its own grammar system so that readers can interpret meanings correctly. Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 27 minutes ago, paapiman said: So similarly, Sri Satguru jee (First Master) can give darshan to non-Sikh Bhagats in this age too and grant them a place in Sachkhand. How hard is that to understand? Bhul chuk maaf He will give him his darshan and make them his Sikhs rather than just giving them place in Sachkhand. He would give them amrit, naam and if they devote their lives to bhagti, they may get a place in Sachkhand. Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: In Gurbani, Ram word has been used for Akaal Purakh and Ram Chander Ji also. Can you substitute Raam (Ram Chander) in panktis where Ram has been used for Akaal Purakh. Mukh arth of a verse will stay the same, but there could possibly be other arths of the same verse. Please read one of the arths of the verses below (You probably already know the Mukh Arth of the verses below). You will get an idea. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, paapiman said: Wasn't he already a Sikh of Maharaaj? Many people in the Malwa region had become Sikhs of Maharaaj during the times of earlier Satgurus. Did he follow any OTHER religion? If yes, then we are dealing with an ATHEIST. Bhul chuk maaf He probably followed any other religion or also may be an atheist. But he accepted guru sahib's will and took Amrit. Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: How can Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji give naam without the person agreeing to become a Sikh? One receives naam only when one surrenders himself to Satguru Ji. If one remains a non Sikh, they can probably engage in activities prohibited in sikhi or not in line with Sikhi. Pls give the sources of these saakhis. The Sakhis of Sri Satguru jee giving Naam daan to two Muslim fakirs might be in Sri Sooraj Prakash Granth. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 8 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: How can Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji give naam without the person agreeing to become a Sikh? Because Sri Satguru jee (Sixth Master) is the incarnation of Sri Waheguru jee. He loves EVERYONE (Sikhs and non-Sikhs). He does NOT have any Duash in him. Bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 1 minute ago, paapiman said: The Sakhis of Sri Satguru jee giving Naam daan to two Muslim fakirs might be in Sri Sooraj Prakash Granth. Bhul chuk maaf So there is a chance that they may be wrong. Mahakavi ji just collected saakhis without bias and wrote it. We need opinions of gurmukhs on this. Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimandeep Singh Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 1 minute ago, paapiman said: Because Sri Satguru jee (Sixth Master) is the incarnation of Sri Waheguru jee. He loves EVERYONE (Sikhs and non-Sikhs). He does NOT have any Duash in him. Bhul chuk maaf Yes he loves all. But he loves those people more who japp naam and keep Regat. He doesn't give his darshan to fools like me. If he loves all, doesn't mean that he can give liberation to all for free. He is the most dayaalu but also just. Trimandeep Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 Just now, Trimandeep Singh said: So there is a chance that they may be wrong. Mahakavi ji just collected saakhis without bias and wrote it. We need opinions of gurmukhs on this. Trimandeep Singh Well, your opinion could be wrong too in this matter. There is MORE THAN ENOUGH evidence in Gurbani and in Sikh history to suggest that non-Sikhs can also attain Sachkhand. bhul chuk maaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted May 30, 2021 Report Share Posted May 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said: Yes he loves all. But he loves those people more who japp naam and keep Regat Rehat is FOR SIKHS (people born in Sikh families), not for NON-SIKHS. How many times do you want me to repeat the same idea? Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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