Extra Pauri of Japji Sahib - Udaasi

[Big Boss]

So had a quick question, maybe someone knows about this?

My father's friend, who is a Sikh involved with the Udaasi panth, says there was a sakhi I believe with Guru Angad Dev Ji. This was when a person had died and a fellow Sikh read Japji Sahib over this dead body and this came back to life. They say there was a extra pauri in Japji Sahib which was originally included in Guru Nanak Dev Jis version however it was taken out by the 2nd guru to make sure such a act doesn't happen again. The Udaasis know of this pauri.

Would anyone be aware of such a thing? If so, would you know what the pauri is? 

I'm not expecting to get this so easily... ha.

 

*Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa, Vaheguru ji ki Fateh*

[GurjantGnostic]

On 5/11/2021 at 4:08 AM, Big Boss said:

So had a quick question, maybe someone knows about this?

My father's friend, who is a Sikh involved with the Udaasi panth, says there was a sakhi I believe with Guru Angad Dev Ji. This was when a person had died and a fellow Sikh read Japji Sahib over this dead body and this came back to life. They say there was a extra pauri in Japji Sahib which was originally included in Guru Nanak Dev Jis version however it was taken out by the 2nd guru to make sure such a act doesn't happen again. The Udaasis know of this pauri.

Would anyone be aware of such a thing? If so, would you know what the pauri is? 

I'm not expecting to get this so easily... ha.

 

*Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa, Vaheguru ji ki Fateh*

I am no expert friend, but I had heard any Gurbani in Sri Raag can do that when the situation is right. Seems to me, that Guru Sahiban would have been beyond wise and either included it or not from the beginning. 

[paapiman]

On 5/11/2021 at 12:51 PM, GurjantGnostic said:

but I had heard any Gurbani in Sri Raag can do that when the situation is right.

Where did you hear about that bro? Can you please provide a source?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

On 5/11/2021 at 7:08 AM, Big Boss said:

So had a quick question, maybe someone knows about this?

My father's friend, who is a Sikh involved with the Udaasi panth, says there was a sakhi I believe with Guru Angad Dev Ji. This was when a person had died and a fellow Sikh read Japji Sahib over this dead body and this came back to life. They say there was a extra pauri in Japji Sahib which was originally included in Guru Nanak Dev Jis version however it was taken out by the 2nd guru to make sure such a act doesn't happen again. The Udaasis know of this pauri.

Would anyone be aware of such a thing? If so, would you know what the pauri is? 

I'm not expecting to get this so easily... ha.

 

*Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa, Vaheguru ji ki Fateh*

Daas might have heard about this in Katha. It might be in my notes. 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[GurjantGnostic]

8 hours ago, paapiman said:

Where did you hear about that bro? Can you please provide a source?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Best part of looking for Katha is sifting through it all. It was Bhai Jagraj Singh Ji or Bhai Sukhraj Singh Ji though. I'll see if I can find it. 

[Trimandeep Singh]

On 5/11/2021 at 4:38 PM, Big Boss said:

So had a quick question, maybe someone knows about this?

My father's friend, who is a Sikh involved with the Udaasi panth, says there was a sakhi I believe with Guru Angad Dev Ji. This was when a person had died and a fellow Sikh read Japji Sahib over this dead body and this came back to life. They say there was a extra pauri in Japji Sahib which was originally included in Guru Nanak Dev Jis version however it was taken out by the 2nd guru to make sure such a act doesn't happen again. The Udaasis know of this pauri.

Would anyone be aware of such a thing? If so, would you know what the pauri is? 

I'm not expecting to get this so easily... ha.

 

*Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa, Vaheguru ji ki Fateh*

Seriously who has the right to Alter bani? 

By saying Guru Angad Dev Ji altered original version of Japji sahib, whosoever said this is committing a great sin.

Poore ka kiya sab kichh poora Ghatt Vadh Kichh nahe 

[The works and creation of the Perfect one are all perfect like him]

This is just a manmati story by a manmat banda.

And this story is so illogical and perhaps, I thank GurU Gobind Singh Ji who did a karamaat on Vaisakhi 1699.

You say that Guru Angad Dev Ji altered the pauri so that no-one else can do the karamaat of making the dead alive done by reading that pauri. 

On Vaisakhi 1699 Guru Gobind Singh Ji cut off the heads of 5 devoted people and then recited 5 banis while stirring is khanda in a baata full of water and pataase. Then he sprinkled a few drops of that Amrit on the bodies of the dead men and put it in their mouth and they became alive! 

Guru Khalsa Panth knows that procedure and can still make a dead person alive with that amrit provided that there are Rehitvaan Naam Rasiye Gurmukhs in Panj Pyaare.

Bhul chuk maaf 

Trimandeep Singh 

[paapiman]

14 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

Seriously who has the right to Alter bani? 

By saying Guru Angad Dev Ji altered original version of Japji sahib, whosoever said this is committing a great sin.

No SIKH has the right to alter Gurbani.

Sri Satguru jee (Second Master) has the right to do that. Daas is not sure if the above sakhi is true or not, but if it is, Daas wont be surprised.

Even, Sri Satguru jee (Fifth Master) did not include Sri Pran Sangli (a Gurbani of First Master), while compiling the saroop of Sri Aad Granth saab.

Sri Satguru jee (Tenth Master) also changed a word in Gurbani, while reciting Gurbani to Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh jee Maharaaj at Sri Damdama Sahib.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Trimandeep Singh]

Bhai sahib I am not saying that Guru sahib can't alter bani. Altering bani of gurus is a great sin and saying that guru sahib himself did this is also alleging him of doing a paap.

But Guru sahib is perfect. 

And Guru would never alter bani. This is because bani is also perfect like our guru.

Bani Guru Guru Hai Baani 

Waho Waho Baani Nirankaar Hai! 

Altering bani means it was not perfect before. But bani is perfect.

Also, one thing to be noted is that Guru sahib immediately sung the bani as he received it from Sachkhand.

Jaisi Main Aave Khasam Ki Bani Taisra Kari Gian Ve Laalo 

Guru sahib sung bani as he directly received from Sachkhand. So, there's no chance that there was a need to alter bani because it was already perfect.

When Guru Har Rai Sahib Ji excommunicated Baba Ram Rai from Panth for changing the word 'Musalmaan' to 'Beyimaan' then he didn't want us to learn that a Sikh can't alter bani but he wanted to show us that bani is perfect and without any flaw and hence can't be altered according to situation one faces.

When someone can be kicked out for alterating just a word then why would Dashmesh Pita do this? He is kartaar and can do whatever he wants. But altering bani is a sin which guru sahib would never do.

Probably, there is some RSS agenda if people who have gone to such an extent that Guru Har Rai Sahib had 8 wives and Dashmesh Pita had 3.

Blasphemous!

Bhul chuk maaf

Trimandeep Singh 

[paapiman]

12 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

And Guru would never alter bani. This is because bani is also perfect like our guru.

According to the Sakhi, Sri Satguru jee did not change any word in the Gurbani. He removed a Pauri from Sri Japjee Sahib.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Trimandeep Singh]

Still Bhai sahib! If he removed a pauri from Sri Japji Sahib, then Japji Sahib which we read is incomplete!

Guru sahib would never do this injustice to us! Guru Granth Sahib Ji also has current version of Japji Sahib only. If the current one is not the original Japji Sahib then we are also indirectly saying that Guru Granth Sahib Ji is incomplete which is not possible.

Trimandeep Singh

[paapiman]

14 minutes ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

When Guru Har Rai Sahib Ji excommunicated Baba Ram Rai from Panth for changing the word 'Musalmaan' to 'Beyimaan' then he didn't want us to learn that a Sikh can't alter bani but he wanted to show us that bani is perfect and without any flaw and hence can't be altered according to situation one faces.

Baba Ram Rai jee was NOT a Satguru. He had no right to change any word in Gurbani.

Sri Satguru jee can change Gurbani, if he wanted.

Please do not apply the rules made by Sri Satguru jee for Sikhs, on the Satgurus themselves.

 

ਗੁਰਿ ਕਹਿਆ ਸਾ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਵਹੁ ॥

ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਕਰਣੀ ਕਾਹੇ ਧਾਵਹੁ ॥

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

If the current one is not the original Japji Sahib then we are also indirectly saying that Guru Granth Sahib Ji is incomplete which is not possible.

Then according to your thinking bro, Sri Aad Guru Granth Saab Maharaaj is incomplete, as Sri Satguru jee (Fifth Master) did not incorporate Sri Pran Sangli into it.

There might be another Gurbani of Sri Satguru jee (First Master), which was not included in the Sri Aad Granth by Sri Satguru jee (Fifth Master). If Daas finds out about it, Gurparsaad, will talk about it.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

Probably, there is some RSS agenda if people who have gone to such an extent that Guru Har Rai Sahib had 8 wives and Dashmesh Pita had 3.

Blasphemous!

Please start a new topic brother, if you want to discuss the issue above.

JFYI,

Sri Satguru jee (Sixth Master) had 3 wives.

Sri Satguru jee (Seventh Master) had 7 or 8 wives.

Sri Satguru jee (Tenth Master) had 3 wives.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Trimandeep Singh]

5 hours ago, paapiman said:

Baba Ram Rai jee was NOT a Satguru. He had no right to change any word in Gurbani.

Sri Satguru jee can change Gurbani, if he wanted.

Please do not apply the rules made by Sri Satguru jee for Sikhs, on the Satgurus themselves.

 

ਗੁਰਿ ਕਹਿਆ ਸਾ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਵਹੁ ॥

ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਕਰਣੀ ਕਾਹੇ ਧਾਵਹੁ ॥

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Bhai sahib the point is why wouldn't Guru Sahib follow the principles preached by himself. No-one is saying the Guru sahib is 'not allowed' to do xyz because whatever he will do, its the best thing to happen. 

Guru Sahib gave a code of conduct to Sikhs. And Guru Sahib himself set an example for the Sikhs that how much should one be dedicated to Rehat. Guru sahib is parmeshar himself. Why would he have to fight battles, keep Amrit Vela even during a battle and sacrifice his whole family? All of that was his karamaat to inspire Sikhs and set an example of an ideal jeevan of a Sikh.

When Guru Sahib himself doesn't give the right to Sikhs to alter bani or remove or add any bani, then why would he himself not follow it? My point is not bounding Guru sahib to a code of conduct but this act, even thinking of doing this is a Paap which Guru sahib wouldn't do.

Bhul chuk maaf

Trimandeep Singh 

[WaheguruDaGulam]

We can't use our manmat to conduct what guru sahib can or can not do

Why guru sahib changed bani guru sahib themselves know we can't decide why or why not they did

[Trimandeep Singh]

1. What was the reason guru sahib removed the pauri? Can you also give the source of the saakhi? 

2. Guru Nanak Dev Ji sung bani as he received it from Sachkhand. As he received the bani He would sing it and give updesh to sangat. So my point is that bani is already perfect. There's no need to add or omit anything. 

3. We are no-one to decide what guru sahib can do and cannot do. He can do anything he wishes to. But this doesn't mean that if someone says that Guru sahib did this xyz thing (which is morally wrong), we believe it and say whatever he did we can't understand his plays. We shouldn't believe these manmati things because Guru Sahib is perfect and can't do anything immoral. Bani is perfect. 

4. Also, the source says that Guru Angad Dev Ji removed the pauri so that no-one can do that karamaat again in future. So, if today Udaasis have found that pauri then this means they can do that karamaat again. This would mean that Guru Angad Dev Ji couldn't successfully fulfill his objective of hiding that pauri from aam sangat. Can guru sahib failing be possible?                  Also, guru sahib must have hidden that pauri or given updesh to sangat to not read it again. Then how come Udaasis know that this pauri was part of which Baani, was written by which guru and why this pauri is not in Guru Granth Sahib? If someone finds such writings, the first thing he'll think is that it may be a kachi bani. In puratan gutke and saroop of guru sahib, people would write about their lineage and some family secrets at the end in poetic style. But Panth used its Bibek Budhi and rejected those writings.

Bhul chuk maaf

Trimandeep Singh  

[paapiman]

On 5/20/2021 at 3:54 AM, Trimandeep Singh said:

But this doesn't mean that if someone says that Guru sahib did this xyz thing (which is morally wrong), we believe it and say whatever he did we can't understand his plays.

What a lot of ordinary people might think of as morally wrong, might be a KAUTAK of Sri Satguru jee or Bhagat Sahebaan.

There is a sakhi related to Shromani Bhagat, Baba Kabir jee Maharaaj in this regards. He saved a thief in his house by making him sleep next to his daughter. Many people did NINDA of Mahapurakh because of it.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Big Boss]

On 5/18/2021 at 4:29 AM, paapiman said:

Daas might have heard about this in Katha. It might be in my notes. 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Gurfateh ji,

 

If you could, can you provide the katha which was told about this? I'm now quite interested.

[Big Boss]

On 5/19/2021 at 7:11 AM, Trimandeep Singh said:

Bhai sahib I am not saying that Guru sahib can't alter bani. Altering bani of gurus is a great sin and saying that guru sahib himself did this is also alleging him of doing a paap.

But Guru sahib is perfect. 

And Guru would never alter bani. This is because bani is also perfect like our guru.

Bani Guru Guru Hai Baani 

Waho Waho Baani Nirankaar Hai! 

Altering bani means it was not perfect before. But bani is perfect.

Also, one thing to be noted is that Guru sahib immediately sung the bani as he received it from Sachkhand.

Jaisi Main Aave Khasam Ki Bani Taisra Kari Gian Ve Laalo 

Guru sahib sung bani as he directly received from Sachkhand. So, there's no chance that there was a need to alter bani because it was already perfect.

When Guru Har Rai Sahib Ji excommunicated Baba Ram Rai from Panth for changing the word 'Musalmaan' to 'Beyimaan' then he didn't want us to learn that a Sikh can't alter bani but he wanted to show us that bani is perfect and without any flaw and hence can't be altered according to situation one faces.

When someone can be kicked out for alterating just a word then why would Dashmesh Pita do this? He is kartaar and can do whatever he wants. But altering bani is a sin which guru sahib would never do.

Probably, there is some RSS agenda if people who have gone to such an extent that Guru Har Rai Sahib had 8 wives and Dashmesh Pita had 3.

Blasphemous!

Bhul chuk maaf

Trimandeep Singh 

 

This is a different discussion ji.

[GurjantGnostic]

On 5/18/2021 at 9:49 AM, GurjantGnostic said:

Best part of looking for Katha is sifting through it all. It was Bhai Jagraj Singh Ji or Bhai Sukhraj Singh Ji though. I'll see if I can find it. 

I found and posted it in a related thread.  Now let me find that lol. 

Groaaaan. Did I not post it? Whyyyyeeeee? I found it listening at work. Bro. Did I write it down? It's here somewhere. 

...hot on the trail... don't understand how it didn't post. I responded and never submit or something. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Nope that's the one says all forms of Guru Sahiban are manifestations of Akal Purakh themself like Nehkalank Avtar itself. 

[GurjantGnostic]

On 1/15/2022 at 9:33 PM, GurjantGnostic said:

I found and posted it in a related thread.  Now let me find that lol. 

Groaaaan. Did I not post it? Whyyyyeeeee? I found it listening at work. Bro. Did I write it down? It's here somewhere. 

...hot on the trail... don't understand how it didn't post. I responded and never submit or something. 

Ahahahahagag..hah..

Har Kirpa. 

16 min in. 

[GurjantGnostic]

20 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Ahahahahagag..hah..

Har Kirpa. 

16 min in. 

@paapiman

[GurjantGnostic]

On 1/16/2022 at 11:31 PM, GurjantGnostic said:

Ahahahahagag..hah..

Har Kirpa. 

16 min in. 

After great consternation and diligently researching and reaching a point where Gurbani does not conflict I'd say Veer Ji is almost right missing one step of touchstone. 

That was a wild ride.  

[BiBekBudh]

On 5/11/2021 at 7:08 AM, Big Boss said:

So had a quick question, maybe someone knows about this?

My father's friend, who is a Sikh involved with the Udaasi panth, says there was a sakhi I believe with Guru Angad Dev Ji. This was when a person had died and a fellow Sikh read Japji Sahib over this dead body and this came back to life. They say there was a extra pauri in Japji Sahib which was originally included in Guru Nanak Dev Jis version however it was taken out by the 2nd guru to make sure such a act doesn't happen again. The Udaasis know of this pauri.

Would anyone be aware of such a thing? If so, would you know what the pauri is? 

I'm not expecting to get this so easily... ha.

 

*Vaheguru ji ka Khalsa, Vaheguru ji ki Fateh*

This is mentioned in the japji Teeka by sant gurbachan singh ji. Udasis claim bhai gurdas ji said japji sahib has 4 pauri, but we see there are 38, so where are the other 2. But sant ji says the mool mantar and the last salok (pavan guru) counts as a pauri, therefore 40.