Following All Rehatname

[paapiman]

Let's discuss in this thread, if it is possible to follow all the codes of conduct (Puratan Rehatname).

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[GurjantGnostic]

18 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Let's discuss in this thread, if it is possible to follow all the codes of conduct (Puratan Rehatname).

 

Bhul chuk maaf

In a way yes. Following Sarbloh Rehit and also only having food cooked by Amritdhari or yourself. 

But the base Rehit would be ...lacking words...Nihang or non Nihang..followed with Sarbloh Rehit additional. 

[paapiman]

@Trimandeep Singh - The below was said by you in another topic. Let's discuss.

Quote

I think they are one of the most dedicated gursikhs today who are doing so much for the panth. I don't think they are dhille in following any Rehat. They are Panj Granthi nitnemis, 24/7 baana even at work, strict sarblohis, always are adorned with Shastars and other strict Rehats. If you think Jhatka,havan etc is REHAT then please give evidence from Rehatnamey. As per my knowledge, they are not a HUKAM of guru sahib. (They are also against Jhatka and Havan)

Unquote

 

Let's discuss the quote above, regarding the Singhs of Gurmat Bibek team.

Sikhs must not slander any Gursikh of any Jathebandi or any other person (in general). But, most likely, Singhs of Gurmat Bibek also don't follow all the Rehats.

@Trimandeep Singh - Do the Gurmat Bibek Singhs follow the Rehats mentioned below? Please correct me, if I say something wrong.

Some examples:

• In Khalsa Rehatnama of the Nihang Buddha Dal, it states that a Singh must always have a Teer (Arrow) with him.
• Puratan Singhs used to carry 5 Shastars - Kirpan, Bow, Gun*, Kataar and Spear. 
• Do they do Kirtan in Raags, as specified in Gurbani?
• They also use the prefix of "Bhai". One of the Puratan Rehatnama clearly states that a Sikh must not use the titles of "Bhai" and "Mahant". 
• They also don't believe in Sri Raagmala Saab. Do they believe in all of Sri Dasam Gurbani and Sri Sarabloh Gurbani?

 

* - Obviously Gurmat Bibek Singhs cannot carry a gun openly in Canada, but do they always keep the remaining ones with them? Do all of them have licensed firearms in their homes and at their school?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

@Trimandeep Singh - With regards to Jhatka and Shikaar (Hunting), please review the website below. It might not be mandatory for all Sikhs to engage in these activities, but they are definitely part of the Panth.

Jhatka Maryada | Jhatka Maryada

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Trimandeep Singh]

The topic was, if following all rehatnaamey is possible or not? My answer Is YES. 

First of all it is useless for us to talk about someone else's Rehat. But I am writing this because I think it will motivate us to do more research on Rehatnamey. Let's stick to the topic only.

4 hours ago, paapiman said:

In Khalsa Rehatnama of the Nihang Buddha Dal, it states that a Singh must always have a Teer (Arrow) with him/her. 

Is this written in Gurbani or the Nihang Samprada has developed it? I have cleared in another thread that one should follow/strive to follow all hukams of guru sahib.

For AKJ, sarbloh is mandatory and I did clear it that it shouldn't be imposed on others. 

4 hours ago, paapiman said:

Puratan Singhs used to carry 5 Shastars - Kirpan, Bow, Gun*, Kataar and Spear. 

Any hukam in Rehatnamey?

4 hours ago, paapiman said:

Do they do Kirtan in Raags, as specified in Gurbani?

Where does it say that Kirtan can ONLY be done in raags? As far as I know it is not mandatory to do Kirtan in raags. Raags have been praised in Gurbani but that doesn't mean Kirtan should be done in raags only. Kirtan is a great tool to elevate one's avastha and anyone can do it. Do you know even in Sri Darbar Sahib, Amritsar, once Kirtan was sung which was NOT Raag Kirtan.

4 hours ago, paapiman said:

They also use the prefix of "Bhai". One of the Puratan Rehatname clearly states that a Sikh must not use the titles of "Bhai" and "Mahant". 

Pls quote the pankti from Rehatnamey. I think it says that noone should call himself a 'Sant' or 'Baba' or a 'Brahmgyani' and always remain a Sikh.

I think 'Bhai' has traditionally been used for all Kirtanis/raagis/parchaaraks when they do Sewa in a Gurudwara. But they don't casually prefix each other's name with 'Bhai'. 

4 hours ago, paapiman said:

They also don't believe in Sri Raagmala Saab. Do they believe in all of Sri Dasam Gurbani and Sri Sarabloh Gurbani?

Why are you creating Dubhida again bhai sahib?! Don't you respect the authority of Sri Akal Takht Sahib? When it is clearly given in Panthic  Rehatnama that bhog can be done at Mundawni or Raagmaala then what's the problem? 

Panthic aggoos keep saying each year to not bring up these issues. It is because of these differences that the pyaar and cooperation between different jathebandis has greatly reduced. Differences existed in the past also but the gursikhs under the umbrella of Khalsa Panth never brought up these issues to maintain pyaar and peace between them. How can you decide it on an online platform if it's bani or not? This is a very old issue. We are no scholars. 

You are also imposing 'Ragmaala' on others when we have the option to not read it.

I request you Veerji, please don't bring this issue again. 

Answering the other part, YES they fully believe in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib and Sri Sarbloh Granth sahib. I also have one of their Kirtan recordings in which they sung some verses from Aarti Arta sahib, which were probably from Sri Sarbloh Granth.

NOTE: If I was rude then please forgive me Veerji. Feelings can't be expressed on an online platform.

Dhanvaad 

Trimandeep Singh 

 

[Trimandeep Singh]

30 minutes ago, paapiman said:

@Trimandeep Singh - With regards to Jhatka and Shikaar (Hunting), please review the website below. It might not be mandatory for all Sikhs to engage in these activities, but they are definitely part of the Panth.

Jhatka Maryada | Jhatka Maryada

 

Bhul chuk maaf

I am neutral on this topic of Jhatka and shikaar. Before coming on this forum, I was a staunch supporter of Vegetarianism. But now, I am neutral. Remaining on a safe side, I will never eat jhatka because-

1) It is not Rehat. So I am not violating Rehat Maryada if I don't consume it.

2) What if it is actually Manmat and against teachings of guru sahib? 

So, just to be on a safe side, I'll not consume it. 

Trimandeep Singh 

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

Is this written in Gurbani or the Nihang Samprada has developed it?

The Hukam of Maharaaj for Singhs to always carry a Teer is from the same Rehatnama, which has the following lines. Daas is almost sure that you must have heard of these lines before.

Quote

"Bina shastr kesang narang bhed jano. Gahe kaan tako kitey le sidhano.
Ehe mor agiya suno le piare. Bina Tegh Kesang divo n didare."

" Without weapons and Kesh - you are nothing but a sheep - who can be led anywhere by the ear
A order has come from the master, without un-cut hair and weapons do not come before me "

Unquote [1]

[1] - "Bina shastr kesang... - VAISAKHI THE BIRTH OF THE KHALSA | Facebook

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

Any hukam in Rehatnamey?

They are mentioned in the Mahan Kosh. They might be mentioned in some Rehatnama.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

20 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

Where does it say that Kirtan can ONLY be done in raags?

But, you cannot deny that ideally speaking, Kirtan must be done in Raags. If Maharaaj has clearly given us instructions in Sri Aad Gurbani (for so many Shabads), as to which Raags to be used to sing Gurbani, then why not follow the Hukam of Sri Satguru jee?

IMHO, this is not a very big issue, but it might be for some other Samprada, like maintaining Sarabloh Bibek (which is not mandatory for all Amritdharis) is a big issue for AKJ.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

Pls quote the pankti from Rehatnamey. I think it says that noone should call himself a 'Sant' or 'Baba' or a 'Brahmgyani' and always remain a Sikh.

I think 'Bhai' has traditionally been used for all Kirtanis/raagis/parchaaraks when they do Sewa in a Gurudwara. But they don't casually prefix each other's name with 'Bhai'. 

It is from Bhai Chaupa Singh Rehatnama. If Daas gets time, Gurparsaad, will post it.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

Why are you creating Dubhida again bhai sahib?! Don't you respect the authority of Sri Akal Takht Sahib? When it is clearly given in Panthic  Rehatnama that bhog can be done at Mundawni or Raagmaala then what's the problem? 

The point is, for you or the AKJ, the issue of Sri Raagmala Saab might be trivial, but for some other Samprada, it might be a big issue.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

Panthic aggoos keep saying each year to not bring up these issues. It is because of these differences that the pyaar and cooperation between different jathebandis has greatly reduced. Differences existed in the past also but the gursikhs under the umbrella of Khalsa Panth never brought up these issues to maintain pyaar and peace between them. How can you decide it on an online platform if it's bani or not? This is a very old issue. We are no scholars. 

It would be great to have Panthic unity, but it won't be possible, if a Jathebandi falsely claims that they follow the full Rehat, while others don't.

An issue could be trivial for one Jathebandi, but the very same issue could be a huge issue for some other Jathebandi.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

I am neutral on this topic of Jhatka and shikaar. Before coming on this forum, I was a staunch supporter of Vegetarianism. But now, I am neutral. Remaining on a safe side, I will never eat jhatka because-

1) It is not Rehat. So I am not violating Rehat Maryada if I don't consume it.

2) What if it is actually Manmat and against teachings of guru sahib? 

So, just to be on a safe side, I'll not consume it. 

Why don't you follow the same logic for Sri Raagmala saab? Why not believe in it, to be on the safe side?

Please just ignore my question, if you don't want to discuss this issue anymore.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

20 minutes ago, paapiman said:

They are mentioned in the Mahan Kosh. They might be mentioned in some Rehatnama.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

@dalsingh101@chatanga1 and others:

Do you guys know, if Panj Shastars are mentioned in any Puratan Rehatnama?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

Answering the other part, YES they fully believe in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib and Sri Sarbloh Granth sahib. I also have one of their Kirtan recordings in which they sung some verses from Aarti Arta sahib, which were probably from Sri Sarbloh Granth.

NOTE: If I was rude then please forgive me Veerji. Feelings can't be expressed on an online platform.

Thanks for the info bro. It's great that they fully believe in Sri Dasam Gurbani and Sri Sarabloh Gurbani.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

@Trimandeep Singh

Most likely, AKJ also does not believe in the Puratan tradition of Sampat Paaths.

IMHO, it is not a big issue, if they don't do them (Sampat Paaths), but if any of their scholars calls Sampat Paath as Manmat, then that is pretty bad.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

19 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

I am neutral on this topic of Jhatka and shikaar. Before coming on this forum, I was a staunch supporter of Vegetarianism. But now, I am neutral. Remaining on a safe side, I will never eat jhatka because-

Most likely, AKJ are against Jhatka Maryada, Sukha Maryada and Shikaar. Is that right?

They can choose not to follow these Rehats, but if they say that these Maryadas are Manmat, then we might have some problems.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

Before coming on this forum, I was a staunch supporter of Vegetarianism.

Do we even have a Rehatnama, which clearly forbids all meat? Please don't bring Gurbani verses into this issue. It is very much clear from Sri Aad Gurbani that Gurmat promotes a Lacto-vegetarian diet.

Most Rehatname probably order Singhs not to eat Halal meat. Is that right?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[GurjantGnostic]

2 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

authority of Sri Akal Takht Sahib

That has to be restored unfortunately. 

[GurjantGnostic]

41 minutes ago, paapiman said:

It would be great to have Panthic unity, but it won't be possible, if a Jathebandi falsely claims that they follow the full Rehat, while others don't.

An issue could be trivial for one Jathebandi, but the very same issue could be a huge issue for some other Jathebandi.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Unity comes from something deeper. 

I'm more concerned if people follow their rehit than it be identifcal to mine. 

[Trimandeep Singh]

9 hours ago, paapiman said:

Bina shastr kesang narang bhed jano. Gahe kaan tako kitey le sidhano.
Ehe mor agiya suno le piare. Bina Tegh Kesang divo n didare."

It says weapons/shastars but doesn't specifically mention a teer.

8 hours ago, paapiman said:

But you cannot deny that ideally speaking, Kirtan must be done in Raags. If Maharaaj has clearly given us instructions in Sri Aad Gurbani (for so many Shabads), as to which Raags to be used to sing Gurbani, then why not follow the Hukam of Sri Satguru jee?

Yes, it is recommended to do Kirtan in raags. But I don't think any jathebandi is AGAINST non raag Kirtan.

8 hours ago, paapiman said:

The point is, for you or the AKJ, the issue of Sri Raagmala Saab might be trivial, but for some other Samprada, it might be a big issue.

Bhai sahib please understand this that in such a big Panth, how do you expect everyone to have the same opinions? The apex authority is Sri Akal Takht Sahib only whose hukams, all jathebandis are bound to follow. And AKJ does bhog at mundawni at their own smaagams only. 

8 hours ago, paapiman said:

It would be great to have Panthic unity, but it won't be possible, if a Jathebandi falsely claims that they follow the full Rehat, while others don't.

Every jathebandi has minor conflicting views. It's just that they believe in a different thing (accepted within Panth). We need to understand this.

One jathebandi believes in one thing while one completely opposes it. Then automatically you would think that this particular jathebandi thinks it follows all Rehat and other's don't. 

8 hours ago, paapiman said:

Thanks for the info bro. It's great that they fully believe in Sri Dasam Gurbani and Sri Sarabloh Gurbani.

Why did you even doubt it? I may be wrong but from the impression I am getting from your posts, I think you believe gursikhs who don't believe in Raagmala are also against basic fundamentals of Sikhism, just like Dhadri and modern missionaries.

8 hours ago, paapiman said:

Most likely, AKJ also does not believe in the Puratan tradition of Sampat Paaths.

IMHO, it is not a big issue, if they don't do them (Sampat Paaths), but if any of their scholars calls Sampat Paath as Manmat, then that is pretty bad

Don't know if AKJ believes it as a  puraatan tradition or not. 

Yes, every jathebandi should respect each other. But if you think deeply...

According to Taksaal,Nanaksar etc if one doesn't believe in Ragmaala, then this means rejecting guru sahib's bani which is a great Paap. According to AKJ, jhatka is also bajjar qurehit which means according to them, it is Manmat.

So, if you see for every jathebandi, the Rehat followed by other jathebandis is NOT perfect. But this doesn't imply they don't respect each other.

Every jathebandi in the Panth respects each other views as long as they are accepted within panth.

8 hours ago, paapiman said:

Most likely, AKJ are against Jhatka Maryada, Sukha Maryada and Shikaar. Is that right?

They can choose not to follow these Rehats, but if they say that these Maryadas are Manmat, then we might have some problems

Ask Taksal and Nanaksar also if sukha is gurmat or not. Most probably they will label it as Manmat only. 

However, they do respect the views of Singhs who practice this Maryada. It's about respect,isn't it? 

You cannot deny that some practices labeled as Manmat by taksaal are followed by other jathebandis and same is the case with Nanaksar and AKJ. 

These differences are bound to happen. But this doesn't mean Taksaal,AKJ, Nanaksar consider themselves as jathebandis who keep original and full Rehat and look down upon others.

You cannot expect every jathebandi to agree with all the Rehats and practices of another one. 

8 hours ago, paapiman said:

Do we even have a Rehatnama, which clearly forbids all meat?

In Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji hukamnaama, it mentions 'Maas Machhi' not particularly jhatka or halal. And same is the case with most of the other Rehatnamey.

 

Again, let's leave these jathebandi differences here only and talk about the reason why this thread was created- can you follow all Rehatnamey? 

Bhul chuk maaf

Trimandeep Singh 

 

[paapiman]

15 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

Yes, it is recommended to do Kirtan in raags. But I don't think any jathebandi is AGAINST non raag Kirtan.

The point is that a Jathebandi can do Kirtan in the Raags(as specified in Gurbani) and can possibly claim that the other Jathebandis (who don't do Kirtan in Raags) are not following the Hukam of Sri Satguru jee.

Hope you get the point.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

On 6/15/2021 at 1:37 PM, Trimandeep Singh said:

The apex authority is Sri Akal Takht Sahib only whose hukams, all jathebandis are bound to follow. And AKJ does bhog at mundawni at their own smaagams only. 

JFYI, Sri Akal Takht saab is the apex authority, but there are four other Takhts in the Khalsa Panth too. There are also differences in the maryadas, at the different Takhts.

For examples,

Jhatka is done at Sri Hajoor saab and Sri Patna saab. It used to be done at Sri Akaal Takht saab in the past too.

Bhog of Sukha takes place at Sri Hajoor saab.

Shaster Pooja is probably also done at Sri Hajoor saab.

There might be more differences.

We, as Sikhs, must respect the maryadas of all the Takhts.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

9 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

According to Taksaal,Nanaksar etc if one doesn't believe in Ragmaala, then this means rejecting guru sahib's bani which is a great Paap. According to AKJ, jhatka is also bajjar qurehit which means according to them, it is Manmat.

So, if you see for every jathebandi, the Rehat followed by other jathebandis is NOT perfect. But this doesn't imply they don't respect each other.

Every jathebandi in the Panth respects each other views as long as they are accepted within panth.

The main point here is that no Jathebandi should falsely claim that they are following the full Rehat.

There might be a Jathebandi out there, which does follow the full Rehat or most of it, but as you can see (from this thread) that it seems that the Gurmat Bibek team does not follow the full Rehat.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

15 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

Again, let's leave these jathebandi differences here only and talk about the reason why this thread was created- can you follow all Rehatnamey? 

Jathebandi differences will come into this discussion because a Jathebandi can say that they are following an injunction in a Rehatnama, but the very same injunction could be a Kurehat for another Jathebandi.

Like for example, there is a Rehatnama which clearly states that a Singh can consume Opium (Afeem) and Marijuana (Bhang).

Please listen to Gyani Inderjit Singh jee Raqbewale. He quotes a verse from a Rehatnama in the audio clip below.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji and Puratan Singhs taking Sukha (podbean.com)

 

Bhul chuk maaf