Gurmat Havan of Sri Chandi jee

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

Do you even know what you said? Amrit Sanchaars, Akhand Paaths and Sehaj Paaths are always for a purpose and above the Sato Gun. All these rituals like havan (acc to me) and all are within the three gunns. Sikh Maryada has been passed by the Gurus and can't be called mere rituals. (Don't want to talk about Havan, but overall all practices started by gurus are above three gunns)

Please read the English definition of a Ritual

Quote

a set of actions or words performed in a regular way, often as part of a religious ceremony

Unquote[1]

[1] - RITUAL | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

Moreover, you are contradicting your own point. You said earlier that we need to do havan so that Agni Devta communicates our message to Vaheguru Ji.

So, how is that a contradiction? It is possible that Agni Devta can enjoy the Paras kala of Gurbani and communicate our message to Sri Waheguru jee.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

Though the panth is always there for us to help, but under any circumstances we can ask non Sikhs for help, but those are small favours,

Those favors can be big too. For example, imagine a non-Sikh saving your loved ones from death. That is a huge favor.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

And when did I write anything that supports worship of Devi devte?

Daas never said that you support worship of Devi Devte.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

They are just a by product of one's bhagti and a Sikh should NEVER do Paath to obtain specific ridhis sidhis.

What is wrong in doing Paath to obtain Ridhis Sidhis, in order to help people? The intention matters.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Trimandeep Singh]

1 hour ago, paapiman said:

Please read the English definition of a Ritual

I was saying that in light of Gurbani. In terms of word ritual used, it's implied meaning is often, if not always, empty rituals and symbolisms.

1 hour ago, paapiman said:

Those favors can be big too. For example, imagine a non-Sikh saving your loved ones from death. That is a huge favor.

Leave that. Still my point is that when Devi devte themselves don't have any access to Vaheguru, then how can they help us communicate with him? We are insulting guru sahib who gave us bani to have darshan of Vaheguru any time we want.

1 hour ago, paapiman said:

What is wrong in doing Paath to obtain Ridhis Sidhis, in order to help people? The intention matters.

One shouldn't ask for ridhi sidhis. Even if you want to help people, just do an ardaas and we all know that Vaheguru always keeps the laaj of his gursikhs. 

When people say that this sant did a miracle or something, then we should correct them and tell that it is Vaheguru who is keeping the laaj of his gursikhs. The sants never use the Ridhi sidhis they obtain, unless to fulfill any hukam of guru sahib.

Gurbani clearly states that one should not focus on ridhi sidhis nor use them for selfish purposes because they keep you away from path of Vaheguru.

Trimandeep Singh 

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

I was saying that in light of Gurbani. In terms of word ritual used, it's implied meaning is often, if not always, empty rituals and symbolisms.

But you cannot deny that we have rituals in our religion too. Sikhism is against some rituals (which were practiced in medieval India) like Idol worship, Husband worship, Demi-God worship, etc.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

Leave that.

Why? Please answer the question. If a non-Sikh saves the life of your loved one, will you be extremely grateful to him/her or not?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

Still my point is that when Devi devte themselves don't have any access to Vaheguru, then how can they help us communicate with him?

IMHO, Devi Devte can communicate with Sri Waheguru jee. 

There is a concept of Akaash Vani in Sanatan mat.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

5 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

We are insulting guru sahib who gave us bani to have darshan of Vaheguru any time we want.

How are we insulting Guru saab? We are using Gurbani Mantars during the Havan ceremony, not any other Mantars.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

5 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

Gurbani clearly states that one should not focus on ridhi sidhis nor use them for selfish purposes because they keep you away from path of Vaheguru.

You are right above, but Sikhs can use Ridhis Sidhis for selfless service of Humanity.

Further, any desire (not only Ridhis Sidhis) can potentially become an hindrance in the path of spirituality. Desires such as a decent job, good wife, big house, etc, all can be a possible distraction in your spiritual journey. But, some of them are needed in order to survive in this world.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

Even if you want to help people, just do an ardaas and we all know that Vaheguru always keeps the laaj of his gursikhs. 

Doing an Ardas, in order to help someone is similar to obtaining a Sidhi of a Gurbani Shabad and then helping someone.

Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh jee Khalsa Bhindranwale would even take an Hukamnama, before doing an Ardas for someone. So similarly, if you have a Gurbani Mantar Sidhi, you can ask for permission from Sri Waheguru jee, before using it to help someone.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

4 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

You said earlier that we need to do havan so that Agni Devta communicates our message to Vaheguru Ji.

Well, he can probably cause distractions or problems in the enemy (who are against Humanity/Khalsa Panth) camp. You cannot deny that.

Devi Devte are very powerful, as compared to ordinary people.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

4 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

They are just a by product of one's bhagti and a Sikh should NEVER do Paath to obtain specific ridhis sidhis.

Sidhi of a Gurbani Mantar/Shabad does not always refer to Ridhis and Sidhis bro.

When you have repeated a certain Gurbani Mantar a certain number of times (usually more than 100,000 times), the Kala of that Mantar/Shabad might start manifesting. A Gurmukh will use that power according to Gurmat, not Manmat.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Trimandeep Singh]

7 hours ago, paapiman said:

Why? Please answer the question. If a non-Sikh saves the life of your loved one, will you be extremely grateful to him/her or not?

Will surely be extremely grateful. But I think Vaheguru just took a Sewa from them and gave them a chance to cut their bad karams. When it comes to communicating with Vaheguru, we don't need anyone to do that for us because Guru sahib has already given us a way.

7 hours ago, paapiman said:

IMHO, Devi Devte can communicate with Sri Waheguru jee. 

But not like a messenger, doing work like this (communicating messages of people to him) 

7 hours ago, paapiman said:

How are we insulting Guru saab?

We are insulting guru sahib because we are using our own Manmat ways to talk with Vaheguru Ji when he has already given us a way to communicate with him. We are not cherishing his gift.

7 hours ago, paapiman said:

Doing an Ardas, in order to help someone is similar to obtaining a Sidhi of a Gurbani Shabad and then helping someone.

Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh jee Khalsa Bhindranwale would even take an Hukamnama, before doing an Ardas for someone. So similarly, if you have a Gurbani Mantar Sidhi, you can ask for permission from Sri Waheguru jee, before using it to help someone.

I don't think it is similar to doing sidhi of a mantar. My point was not to stick to a specific shabad to obtain specific powers. Doing sidhi to fight vikaars or for health purposes is fine but shouldn't be the case with obtaining powers. I don't think any gurmukh mahapurush did paath to obtain ridhi sidhis, they did paath just to have darshan and that SHOULD be the case with all of us. Else everything will be taken care of by Guru sahib.

But that hukamnaama point does make sense.

7 hours ago, paapiman said:

Well, he can probably cause distractions or problems in the enemy (who are against Humanity/Khalsa Panth) camp. You cannot deny that.

Give me one evidence when Khalsa Fauj tried to take help of Devi devte to fight battles. I would again say,it will be an insult to Vaheguru. We already have Dasam bani and mool mantar with us which are much stronger than the devi devte. We don't need their help when we have bani.

 

7 hours ago, paapiman said:

Sidhi of a Gurbani Mantar/Shabad does not always refer to Ridhis and Sidhis bro.

Yes but I didn't talk about that. I always meant the sidhis which refer to materialistic things.

Bhul chuk maaf

Trimandeep Singh 

[paapiman]

2 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

When it comes to communicating with Vaheguru, we don't need anyone to do that for us because Guru sahib has already given us a way.

But, if you help someone, that person might give you a blessing.

Sikhs are suppose to strive to receive blessings from fellow human beings. Similarly, you can be blessed by Devi Devte too. They might come for your assistance, whether you want it or not.

Sri Waheguru jee can work directly (which usually happens for Brahamgyanis/Mahapurakhs, etc) or through his creation (which includes Devi Devte). 

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

2 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

We are insulting guru sahib because we are using our own Manmat ways to talk with Vaheguru Ji when he has already given us a way to communicate with him. We are not cherishing his gift.

How is Havan (based on Gurmat) Manmat, if it is mentioned in Gurbani and multiple historical sources?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

2 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

. I don't think any gurmukh mahapurush did paath to obtain ridhi sidhis, they did paath just to have darshan and that SHOULD be the case with all of us.

We should not be comparing ordinary people with Gurmukh Mahapurakhs.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

2 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

I would again say,it will be an insult to Vaheguru. We already have Dasam bani and mool mantar with us which are much stronger than the devi devte. We don't need their help when we have bani.

Khalsa does not need to ask them for help, they might themselves come to help the Sikhs in battlefields.

You don't always need to ask someone for help. Sometimes, if people see you in trouble, they might just naturally help you out.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[GurjantGnostic]

3 hours ago, paapiman said:

Khalsa does not need to ask them for help, they might themselves come to help the Sikhs in battlefields.

You don't always need to ask someone for help. Sometimes, if people see you in trouble, they might just naturally help you out.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

6 hours ago, Trimandeep Singh said:

Give me one evidence when Khalsa Fauj tried to take help of Devi devte to fight battles. I would again say,it will be an insult to Vaheguru. We already have Dasam bani and mool mantar with us which are much stronger than the devi devte. We don't need their help when we have bani.

Just woke up. Brain isn't working yet. But I think you guys are agreeing here. 

Yes. Devte have always been sent to help creation and humanity. 

Yes. You will see their forces join the forces of the Khalsa in battle. 

No. We don't pray to them.  

We can praise Akal and the Guru Sahiban, and even reference Devte as they appear in Gurbani. Dasam Granth has praises for those great spiritual warriors that help us, with whom the Guru is impressed. Mainly females which is awesome. 

If some Dasam Granth like things were happening again, you'd be praying to Akal and your prayers may be answered by a Devte and their forces. Because we all work for Akal as Dharmis. Like when you radio hq for air support. You radio command. They send the a10 warthog to be your angel. You don't need a relationship with the a10 pilot, you do need respect and gratitude for what the pilot does. 

Khalsa Paanth is stil Maharaja's Own. It's a coalition of forces and we answer to the Most High directly and yes we fight alongside a variety of Dharmi forces. 

Whelp. Slightly more awake. Hopefully that made sense. Lol. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Sort of a tangent, but when I am not doing a direct Ardas and I want, or need help, or wish help for someone I see suffering, I let loose a loud singing of Jo Bole So Nihal Sat Sri Akal!!! To bring the awareness of Shaeed Singhs to whoever or whatever is happening. I use it a lot for myself when I'm feeling attacked or beset and when I see the homeless fighting their invisible tormentors I ask Shaheed Singhs to come be with them in that moment too and to ride down on whatever is tormenting the poor person. 

And the number of times the poor person stops their delusional fight a moment and looks around or changes their interaction with what they're seeing is profound.  

Sometimes they stop entirely. Their entire face lights up and they get excited, and you can tell they are watching their bully get sorted. Other times the relief is more brief and less noticeable and they go right back to the torment. 

Every time. Every time. You see it have some effect from a distance and a lot of the time they start looking around to see who's Interacting with them. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Had this experience just this evening. Went out for a pizza and on my way out I hear this woman confronting the invisible coming down the street. So I quietly utter the Jaikara and then as we get closer she starts swerving like lining up with me as we approach. I offer her a slice and she sort of continues her conversation with me about her drug addiction, and homelessness, and crime she intends to commit for drugs now and shelter if caught, and I haven't said anything, managed a few consilitory statememts in. And the entire time she keeps shifting from looking at me to looking over my left shoulder and up at something taller than me. And she goes on to vent, and I haven't mentioned anything about anything, and she keeps addressing me and whoever is up and to my left about how angry she is at God and that she fully intends to keep walking away from God in the direction of seperateness, and it was like she was responding to an invitation or warning but certainly not one I gave her. 

[paapiman]

6 hours ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Had this experience just this evening. Went out for a pizza and on my way out I hear this woman confronting the invisible coming down the street. So I quietly utter the Jaikara and then as we get closer she starts swerving like lining up with me as we approach. I offer her a slice and she sort of continues her conversation with me about her drug addiction, and homelessness, and crime she intends to commit for drugs now and shelter if caught, and I haven't said anything, managed a few consilitory statememts in. And the entire time she keeps shifting from looking at me to looking over my left shoulder and up at something taller than me. And she goes on to vent, and I haven't mentioned anything about anything, and she keeps addressing me and whoever is up and to my left about how angry she is at God and that she fully intends to keep walking away from God in the direction of seperateness, and it was like she was responding to an invitation or warning but certainly not one I gave her. 

Do you think that she was hallucinating?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

On 7/14/2021 at 2:46 AM, Trimandeep Singh said:

I thought Dasam bani satisfied the hunger of shastars rather than making them hungrier. But I may be wrong, please try to find a pankti related to this.

The below verse from Sri Bhagauti Astotar saab might be pointing to the fact that Shastars do indeed demand flesh and blood as an offering.

Obviously, the Mukh Arth does refer to the blood and flesh of evil men, tyrants, terrorists, oppressors, etc.

 

ਰੁਧਰ ਮੱਜਨੀ ਬਿੰਜਨੀ ਹੈ ਸਗੌਤੀ ॥ ਸਦਾ ਜੈ ਸਦਾ ਜੈ ਸਦਾ ਜੈ ਭਗੌਤੀ ॥

[Salutations to the] one bathed in blood! Oh flesh eating one ! Your victory is eternal ! Your victory is eternal ! Your victory is eternal oh Bhagauti !

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

On 7/14/2021 at 2:46 AM, Trimandeep Singh said:

I thought Dasam bani satisfied the hunger of shastars rather than making them hungrier. But I may be wrong, please try to find a pankti related to this.

The below verse from Sri Bhagauti Astotar saab might be pointing to the fact that Shastars do indeed demand flesh and blood as an offering.

Obviously, the Mukh Arth does refer to the blood and flesh of evil men, tyrants, terrorists, oppressors, etc.

 

ਰੁਧਰ ਮੱਜਨੀ ਬਿੰਜਨੀ ਹੈ ਸਗੌਤੀ ॥ ਸਦਾ ਜੈ ਸਦਾ ਜੈ ਸਦਾ ਜੈ ਭਗੌਤੀ ॥

[Salutations to the] one bathed in blood! Oh flesh eating one ! Your victory is eternal ! Your victory is eternal ! Your victory is eternal oh Bhagauti !

 

Bhul chuk maaf