Tahir Gora channel

[Premi]

Canadian Pakistani Panjabi, he has many videos on his youtube channel of his shows in Panjabi interviewing/in discussion with Panjabis

https://www.youtube.com/c/TAGTVCanadaUSA/search?query=punjab rang

 

 

 

 

 

[ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ]

unity is possible. Nazeer is a FB associate of mine

[ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ]

check this person out in that case. Or just type gimmi tv punjabi bethak in youtube

 

https://apnaorg.com/punjabi-baithak/

 

and yes I am one of them

 

 

[GurjantGnostic]

18 hours ago, ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ said:

check this person out in that case. Or just type gimmi tv punjabi bethak in youtube

 

https://apnaorg.com/punjabi-baithak/

 

and yes I am one of them

 

 

What are your thoughts on reconciling Sikhi, with muslim neighbors who consider us kafir? And belive that criminalizing us and sex traficking us is permitted due to our status outside of the abrahamic paradigm?

I have close muslim friends. I know it's a weird question, but how can one exactly coexist with a group that doesn't view them as human, feels they have a religous duty to convert you and don't consider crimes against you a crime?

Language is often a barrier. Has your experience with Punjabi as a language given you any insights into this topic in a broader way?

 

[ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ]

34 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

What are your thoughts on reconciling Sikhi, with muslim neighbors who consider us kafir? And belive that criminalizing us and sex traficking us is permitted due to our status outside of the abrahamic paradigm?

I have close muslim friends. I know it's a weird question, but how can one exactly coexist with a group that doesn't view them as human, feels they have a religous duty to convert you and don't consider crimes against you a crime?

Language is often a barrier. Has your experience with Punjabi as a language given you any insights into this topic in a broader way?

 

all I can say is that the pro punjabi muslims I know from Pakistan itself don't give me that impression. Dare I say it that they may be left wing- arty farty in their nature...maybe thus very liberal within the confines of the punjabi culture combined with Islam. Even we have Katar Sikhs. That said they do not reflect the ones in Britain, and those I think since 9/11 and all that, are not the same. One Pakistani Professor put it like this to me years ago..Urdu is a language of hate, Punjabi of love...so I guess you have to take all humans individually as you find them. All Abrahamic Religions are illogical anyhow, but that is just my view..so I think those who consider anyone Kafir/ Heritic/ or Lower caste are all cut from the same cloth..not clothes I want to wear

In short it depends who your neighbour is. Grooming is certainly a problem in the UK and is associated with gangs mostly made up of muslim men. I did not think Sex trafficking is permitted though..Yesterday was Lori / Lodi...its most famous person is Dulla Bhatti of Lahore, a muslim who fought Mughals, saving Hindu women. So I don't think it is a religious thing,  ( I could be wrong but ask a Muslim woman what she thinks of this) but a cultural arrogance???

[dalsingh101]

11 minutes ago, ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ said:

I did not think Sex trafficking is permitted though.

I think it is. Muslim scholars openly admit that slavery was/is a part of the islamic economy, if not central to it (and this includes the sexual slavery of captured female captives, and by the looks of it, even young males). I think these 'cultural norms' are even older than islam itself and were practiced by arabs prior to mohammad being born.  

[dalsingh101]

52 minutes ago, ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ said:

Dare I say it that they may be left wing- arty farty in their nature...maybe thus very liberal within the confines of the punjabi culture combined with Islam. Even we have Katar Sikhs.

That's the problem, letting your guard down because of outliners. Even our katar Singhs wouldn't condone our own doing some of the things that emanate from certain quarters.

I feel there is an increasingly growing aversion to 'liberalism' in our community, people feel it weakens boundaries, and makes the panth vulnerable to predators of other communities, and this isn't just limited to pakistanis.    

[ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ]

31 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

I think it is. Muslim scholars openly admit that slavery was/is a part of the islamic economy, if not central to it (and this includes the sexual slavery of captured female captives, and by the looks of it, even young males). I think these 'cultural norms' are even older than islam itself and were practiced by arabs prior to mohammad being born.  

ok so that explains Dulla Bhatti and Taken within the same sentence. I think the issue is there is Punjabi Culture ( so the muslims from Pakistan I know are pro punjabi so different from the mullah types) and then Punjabi sub culture, ( dictated by religion? Thus Sikhs and Hindus are different from Muslims, and Hindus are different from Sikhs etc) and then there is Arab culture which overrides a lot of the behaviour and sets the norms. It is also where Islam comes from. 

 

This may explain it. The guys I know are more Sufi orientated which means they are of the same ilk as Santan Hindus and thus more in sync with Baba Nanak's Sikhi but not I guess the Khalsa. So then all I can say is the pro punjabi guys seem to be different. It is an interesting point for me that the pro punjabi ones are mainly hailing from within Pakistan and are also targeted as Indian spies or traitors by those that put Islam before national pride. Also that the ones we are talking about may specifically include those in the west who like Sikhs in the west bought the wounds of 47 with them and lets face it are the guys my generation fought in the clubs and pubs in the 80s and 90s because of the hate between our communities at the time. I think many of them further alienated themselves from Pakistan after 9/11 and its consequences and lacking any linguistic connection with the Punjab joined the international Islamic brotherhood in reaction to George Bush etc and now are more like the Arabs you describe.

As I said take them individually.. anyhow one thing I am in agreement with you all...whenever I ask them about why they don't critize terrorism or all this grooming, there is no response, yet they are vocal about west picking on them. I have noted the ones I know in Pakistan disassociate themselves with these British products.

 

last night I happen to see a film set in Columbia with a similar storyline to Taken,,so I think it is an international issue not just a muslim one..I also recall that Romanian gangs do it as well

Maybe the question should be why are Arabs like this?

GurjantGnostic this is my answer to you as well re insight

[ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ]

6 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

That's the problem, letting your guard down because of outliners. Even our katar Singhs wouldn't condone our own doing some of the things that emanate from certain quarters.

I feel there is an increasingly growing aversion to 'liberalism' in our community, people feel it weakens boundaries, and makes the panth vulnerable to predators of other communities, and this isn't just limited to pakistanis.    

yes I agree with you. Many things they do in their community despite our  union of language are alien to my sikh upbringing...including marrying relatives or girls half your age etc...language can unite us and create a discourse...but all the rest of these things are so different...I think the worst I have heard ours do is Honour Killings, though allegedly there was a Sikh member of a northern muslin grooming gang in the news some years ago...anyhow my views on this are on display in my story Gunda, which may offend some muslims, but grooming gangs are a fact

[ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ]

I think we are taking the subject away from Tahir Gora channel.,,,,nevermind

[dalsingh101]

Just now, ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ said:

I think we are taking the subject away from Tahir Gora channel.,,,,nevermind

As a Sikh brother, these are key and impending issues for us, so it's not surprising that they come out.

 

[GurjantGnostic]

1 minute ago, ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ said:

I think we are taking the subject away from Tahir Gora channel.,,,,nevermind

Bad habit of mine. I blame inspiration. Thank you for the feedback. 

[dalsingh101]

5 minutes ago, ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ said:

yes I agree with you. Many things they do in their community despite our  union of language are alien to my sikh upbringing...including marrying relatives or girls half your age etc...language can unite us and create a discourse...but all the rest of these things are so different...I think the worst I have heard ours do is Honour Killings, though allegedly there was a Sikh member of a northern muslin grooming gang in the news some years ago...anyhow my views on this are on display in my story Gunda, which may offend some muslims, but grooming gangs are a fact

Bhai ji, other brothers have highlighted how some wear karas to pretend to be Sikh to con Sikh females, the amount of times I've had someone who is obviously not Sikh start speaking Panjabi to me and tell me that they are Sikh in recent years is telling too. 

It's obvious they are trying to infiltrate us. 

[dalsingh101]

8 minutes ago, ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ said:

though allegedly there was a Sikh member of a northern muslin grooming gang in the news some years ago..

That just reinforces the idea of being very wary of who you mix with. 

[ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ]

6 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

Bhai ji, other brothers have highlighted how some wear karas to pretend to be Sikh to con Sikh females, the amount of times I've had someone who is obviously not Sikh start speaking Panjabi to me and tell me that they are Sikh in recent years is telling too. 

It's obvious they are trying to infiltrate us. 

The general giveaway to that will be 1) They will have a Majhi accent, most Sikhs in west have Doabi/ Malwae 2) They do look ..."different"

Yeah I know about the Kara thing

[GurjantGnostic]

5 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

That just reinforces the idea of being very wary of who you mix with. 

Tell me about it bro. The trolls have me like this some days. In person is far more worrying. 

 

[dalsingh101]

15 minutes ago, ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ said:

anyhow my views on this are on display in my story Gunda,

That's next on my reading list. You'll probably find me posting a lot of words you used in that vocabulary thread in future. 

[dalsingh101]

1 minute ago, ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ said:

The general giveaway to that will be 1) They will have a Majhi accent, most Sikhs in west have Doabi/ Malwae 2) They do look ..."different"

Yeah I know about the Kara thing

Potohari accent too. Pronouncing arab loan words with proper arabic guttural inflection. I tend to try and keep this info secret so they don't adapt to the disclosure. 

[ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ]

1 hour ago, dalsingh101 said:

That's next on my reading list. You'll probably find me posting a lot of words you used in that vocabulary thread in future. 

its also an audiobook, just google it, may save you reading it!   Only they spelt my name dillon

[ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ]

1 hour ago, dalsingh101 said:

Potohari accent too. Pronouncing arab loan words with proper arabic guttural inflection. I tend to try and keep this info secret so they don't adapt to the disclosure. 

you just gave it away on here...I tend to try and pronounce my pair bindis so I may be in danger! There are a few actual Sikhs from that area, just as there are Muslims in Pakistan from India who also have Doabi or Malwai accents...though its a good rule of thumb, its not 100% as a result.  Sikh girls I know that have gone with Muslims seem to do it out of choice or rebelling in some manner. Then again Muslim and Hindu girls have been known to marry Sikhs as well. The Key is issue is the conversion. Everyone always seems to be olbiged expected to become Muslim. EG Omar Shariff was born catholic but he married a muslim woman and had to convert. And it is definitely that way for women marrying Muslim men. To my knowledge Sikhs don't do that.

[Premi]

22 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

Bhai ji, other brothers have highlighted how some wear karas to pretend to be Sikh to con Sikh females, the amount of times I've had someone who is obviously not Sikh start speaking Panjabi to me and tell me that they are Sikh in recent years is telling too. 

It's obvious they are trying to infiltrate us. 

Why do they start talking to you? Don't they think it would be obvious once you ask them where their family is from back home and a few questions related to Sikhi that they will be found  out ?!

 

[Premi]

 

[GurjantGnostic]

7 minutes ago, Premi said:

Why do they start talking to you? Don't they think it would be obvious once you ask them where their family is from back home and a few questions related to Sikhi that they will be found  out ?!

 

Be a risk with @dalsingh101, but unfortunately some of our young ladies wouldn't have the depth of Gurmat to notice. 

[Premi]

56 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

Be a risk with @dalsingh101, but unfortunately some of our young ladies wouldn't have the depth of Gurmat to notice. 

It's important I guess for that reason that Sikh youth here and in the West know some Panjabi culture and understanding and ability to speak it. 

I reckon I could suss out a 'fake' just by asking about their village/local area in Panjab, and you ask them specific questions like 'do you know x at your local Gurdwara etc' - that is hard to fake a response to

[Premi]

 

23 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

Bhai ji, other brothers have highlighted how some wear karas to pretend to be Sikh to con Sikh females, the amount of times I've had someone who is obviously not Sikh start speaking Panjabi to me and tell me that they are Sikh in recent years is telling too. 

It's obvious they are trying to infiltrate us. 

On SS you mentioned about encouraging your mixed race relative to wear a Kara. It's clear that it's not helpful necessarily if they don't have any of the other Kakaars

These people speaking Panjabi to you, are they British-raised or they from India or Pakistan ?