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Naam Simran And Non-Amritdharis!!!!!!!!


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vaheguroojikakhalsavaheguroojikifateh

I found this discussion on sikhnet.com. I was just wondering sangat's view on here.

Orginal Messsage.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hi,

I am a non AmritDhari Sikh at the present moment. I have mentioned to a few people who are AmritDharis that I do Naam Simran. They told me my Naam Simran will bear NO fruit because I have not received Naam through Punj Payarey yet and that I am better off reading Bani. BUT still I refuse to beleive that Naam simran bears NO fruit even regardless of race and religon.

what are your thoughts on this?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa! Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!

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Well here’s wat I think...I agree with exactly wat u said Gurjote…I think Naam Simran is the exact same thing whether u take Amrit or not…I mean people make it seem so serious..like seriously is there a difference between it if u take Amrit or not?..ur still doing the EXACT same thing…it's like they (those amritdhari sikhs mentioned above) think they’re superior just cuz they took Amrit…maybe I understood everything the wrong way but ehh this is wat I thought

Again please dont be offended by wat I've said...this is just wat I think

Bhuul chuk maaf karni,

Jaspreet

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Naam itself is amrit. We shouldnt let egoists dictate what Sikhi is. If egoists always say you need to take Amrit to do Kirtan, Naam Simran etc, how will Sikhs ever become good Amritderhi's Sikhs? They'll end up breaking Amrit.

This Shabad is by Guru Amar Daas Ji in Raag Maajh on Pannaa 118

maajh mehalaa 3 ||

Maajh, Third Mehl:

a(n)mrith naam ma(n)n vasaaeae ||

Enshrining the Ambrosial Naam, the Name of the Lord, in the mind,

houmai maeraa sabh dhukh gavaaeae ||

all the pains of egotism, selfishness and conceit are eliminated.

a(n)mrith baanee sadhaa salaahae a(n)mrith a(n)mrith paavaniaa ||1||

By continually praising the Ambrosial Bani of the Word, I obtain the Amrit, the Ambrosial Nectar. ||1||

ho vaaree jeeo vaaree a(n)mrith baanee ma(n)n vasaavaniaa ||

I am a sacrifice, my soul is a sacrifice, to those who enshrine the Ambrosial Bani of the Word within their minds.

a(n)mrith baanee ma(n)n vasaaeae a(n)mrith naam dhhiaavaniaa ||1|| rehaao ||

Enshrining the Ambrosial Bani in their minds, they meditate on the Ambrosial Naam. ||1||Pause||

a(n)mrith bolai sadhaa mukh vainee || a(n)mrith vaekhai parakhai sadhaa nainee ||

Those who continually chant the Ambrosial Words of Nectar see and behold this Amrit everywhere with their eyes.

a(n)mrith kathhaa kehai sadhaa dhin raathee avaraa aakh sunaavaniaa ||2||

They continually chant the Ambrosial Sermon day and night; chanting it, they cause others to hear it. ||2||

a(n)mrith ra(n)g rathaa liv laaeae ||

Imbued with the Ambrosial Love of the Lord, they lovingly focus their attention on Him.

a(n)mrith gur parasaadhee paaeae ||

By Guru's Grace, they receive this Amrit.

a(n)mrith rasanaa bolai dhin raathee man than a(n)mrith peeaavaniaa ||3||

They chant the Ambrosial Name with their tongues day and night; their minds and bodies are satisfied by this Amrit. ||3||

so kishh karai j chith n hoee ||

That which God does is beyond anyone's consciousness;

this dhaa hukam maett n sakai koee ||

no one can erase the Hukam of His Command.

hukamae varathai a(n)mrith baanee hukamae a(n)mrith peeaavaniaa ||4||

By His Command, the Ambrosial Bani of the Word prevails, and by His Command, we drink in the Amrit. ||4||

ajab ka(n)m karathae har kaerae ||

The actions of the Creator Lord are marvellous and wonderful.

eihu man bhoolaa jaa(n)dhaa faerae ||

This mind is deluded, and goes around the wheel of reincarnation.

a(n)mrith baanee sio chith laaeae a(n)mrith sabadh vajaavaniaa ||5||

Those who focus their consciousness on the Ambrosial Bani of the Word, hear the vibrations of the Ambrosial Word of the Shabad. ||5||

khottae kharae thudhh aap oupaaeae ||

You Yourself created the counterfeit and the genuine.

thudhh aapae parakhae lok sabaaeae ||

You Yourself appraise all people.

kharae parakh khajaanai paaeihi khottae bharam bhulaavaniaa ||6||

You appraise the true, and place them in Your Treasury; You consign the false to wander in delusion. ||6||

kio kar vaekhaa kio saalaahee ||

How can I behold You? How can I praise You?

gur parasaadhee sabadh salaahee ||

By Guru's Grace, I praise You through the Word of the Shabad.

thaerae bhaanae vich a(n)mrith vasai thoo(n) bhaanai a(n)mrith peeaavaniaa ||7||

In Your Sweet Will, the Amrit is found; by Your Will, You inspire us to drink in this Amrit. ||7||

a(n)mrith sabadh a(n)mrith har baanee ||

The Shabad is Amrit; the Lord's Bani is Amrit.

sathigur saeviai ridhai samaanee ||

Serving the True Guru, it permeates the heart.

naanak a(n)mrith naam sadhaa sukhadhaathaa pee a(n)mrith sabh bhukh lehi jaavaniaa ||8||15||16||

O Nanak, the Ambrosial Naam is forever the Giver of peace; drinking in this Amrit, all hunger is satisfied. ||8||15||16||

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I think this discussion will turn into good discussion, if we will ask few questions to these Amrit-dharis.

1. What is Simran?

2. What is Simran as per Sikh way of life?

3. Is Simran only for Sikhs?

4. Who we do Simran for?

These Amritdharis should be asked that in which category "Bhai Mardana" stands if only "Simran" is acceptable, which is basically being done after taking Amrit?

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I would like to add this post as well here to make this discussion fruitful.

Contributor: Bharat V Singh

For those young Sikhs who question about Naam,here are a few words:

Naam is that which puts life into you.You are alive because of Atma or soul,which is a bit of Naam in action.Naam is in everything,just as God is in everything,is omnipotent.

So God is Naam.Hence Satnaam or True Name.When we meditate on God,we meditate on His Naam(Name)since we can't meditate on His picture or image,as He has no picture.But His word is there in the holy books of different religions.If you are a Sikh,you meditate on His Word in the Guru Granth.So Naam of God is His Word,i.e. Gurbani.

Also as a single word-mantra,"Waheguru" is Naam as given by our Guru.Chanting or reciting "Waheguru" brings us closer to God because it is a way of remembering Him by doing Simran.Moolmantra is also considered Naam.Human beings with Naam awakened in their minds are known as Gurmukhs while those without Naam are manmukhs or self-oriented.Guru Granth teaches that Naam's effect is real,most powerful and almost 'magical'.

Through Naam,body and soul blossoms,all pain(Dukh)vanishes,wisdom comes,success and prosperity come in life and the practising Sikh is in true Bliss(Anand) forever.He learns the true purpose of life and the uselessness of hankering after material things or 'maya'.Only kaam(lust),krodh(rage),lobh(greed),moh(attachment) and ahankaar(pride,ego)keep us away from Naam or God,which will never come to reside in a mind occupied by these five evils.

And when,with Guru's blessing,God or Naam does come into the mind,then these evils disappear and the person becomes God-oriented,truthful or pure.Remember Guru Nanak said truthful living is even higher than Truth,which is supposed to be the highest.So with Naam,there is a real transformation in the individual into a good,useful,contented person or a healthy,happy,holy human

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The Concept of Naam, by S. Hardit Singh

It is generally believed that the Sanskrit word 'nam', the English word 'name' and the Sikh term Naam as used in Gurbani are synonymous. A deeper study reveals that the word 'Naam' as used in Sikh Scriptures is of a somewhat different nature and has a more comprehensive spiritual and divine connotation.

The Sanskrit and the English words denote a person or a thing. These also mean a designation, reputation, fame, family or clan. Their implication is almost wholly mundane. Whereas 'Naam' has several ramifications. It implies God, the Reality, mystical Word or formula to recite or meditate upon (shabad in Gurbani), divine order (hukam) and at places divine teacher (guru) and guru's instructions.

Naam, according to the late Professor Puran Singh,

"is the supernaturally natural function of a poetical genius who though in body is at all times of day and night under the influence of the higher soul words of freedom.

It is the pure subjectivity of love bursting up from the soul and invisible spirit guidance from below the crusts of earthiness, from under the hard conditions of earthly

life."

Naam, further, stands for the union with the Reality, to be attained by the devout repitition of His Name. Naam is the sign, the symbol and the song of God. It is the key to enter into the presence and the heart of God. By adoration and singing His praises, saintly hearts glow all the time. Naam brings in peace and tranquility. It is described as the most potent "detergent" which frees the mind of its filth and afflictions and dyes it to prevent further erosion. The sub-conscious mind or the 'budhi'

is further sharpened and moulded into instant insight or intuitiveness (sudhi). In this sphere, mystical experience occurs at the mere sway of thoughts. Indeed the universe is sustained and held together by Naam:

"Naam ke dhare khand brahmand"

God's greatness is beyond human comprehension. But He can be approached through a ladder called Naam, which can take us to His height. Naam, therefore, is greater than everything else.

"sabte ucha jaka nao" and "wada sahib uncha thaon, uche upar ucha naon".

In the Sikh scripture God is called by various names such as Gobind, Rahim, Prabhu, Ram, etc. All such epithet are known as "Karam-Naam", expressing quality and attribute of God. According to Guru Nanak, His eternal name is 'Sat' i.e. Truth. He is True and so is His Naam:

"Sacha sahib, sach nae".

Sat Naam, an attribute given in the Mool Mantra has been His name even before the primal age:

"Sat naam tera para-purbala".

In Jap Sahib, Guru Gobind Singh has mentioned several Karam-naams in Arabic, Persian, Sanskrit and Punjabi. Before spelling these out, he has humbly submitted, in his prologue, that since God is beyond comprehension and description, full justice cannot be done to the subject matter. The appropriate word used by him is,"Neti, Neti": this is not all, this is not all as something more is yet to be said about Him.

A devotee absorbed in Naam is oblivious to sorrow and pain; he remains in ever ascending spirit (chardhi-kala), wishes everyone well (sarbat da bhala) and is always ready to protect the weak and saint (sant ubaran dusht uparan) and fight for righteous causes (shubh karman te kabhun na taron). His main demand or prayer is for Naam-Dan, the greatest gift and grace one can aspire for.

In conclusion, it may be said that Naam is truth, the eternal, comprehensively symbolic of God's attributes, formless, immaculate and absolute. His adoration and meditation is the gateway to God's domain of Grace and Bliss.

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vaheguroojikakhalsavaheguroojikifateh,

Lets see here-

Amritdharis dont have monaply over akaal purkh.

In siri guroo granth sahib ji-

There are many examples where bhagats got naam diii daat from their murshad without takin any kind of amrit.

Bhagat Kabir got naam di daat from his Guroo Ramanand.

Baba Farid Ji got naam diii daaat from his murshad.

Gangka Papan(who was a prostitute) got naam diii daat from a mahapursh and attain enlightment.

If you can see the pattern, you will see common thing which is that they got all naam from enlightened souls and they all served enlightened souls to get mukhti.

I personally beleive that naam which is given by enlightened souls are more fruitful than normal being giving you naam.

In khalsa way of life, panj pyarei can only give you naam. But that doesnt mean you need to be amrit-dhari to get naam. That only means if you are amrit-dhari then you must receive naam mantra from panj pyarei( 5 beloved sikhs).

And now question arises???

Can a mona sikh or non-amritdhari who is born in a sikh household can do jaap naam and can get the same fruit as amrit-dhari. I have to say "Yes".

Naam resides in every one heart. Its the gurmantara/naam mantra - vaheguroo we use inorder to awake Naam within ourself.

Siri guroo granth sahib ji is a divine message. I unfortunately have to say, soo many sikhs dont understand their own guroo maharaj. What guroo maharaj is trying to potray. Some khatar singhs now have monaply over naam which is quite sad.

Updesh is given sanjha to everyone.

Khatri, Bhramin, Vaish, Shud updesh Chuo Varna Ko Sanjha (SGGS) (I might not have pronounce gurbani correctly here, so appolize)

Again i repeat. Can mona sikh get mukhti?? Yes??? How?? What are the options???

If non-amritdhari do not wish to take amrit then he/she should go out and pursue the lifes same as how bhagat kabir ji, baba farid ji, gangka papan did. Which is search for the englightened soul. Enlightened soul doesnt have to be sikh, muslim, hindi, christian. It can be from any mat... Once you search for enlightned soul, you must follow his teaching and serve him/her with true heart same as how baba farid ji and bhagat kabir ji did to their murshad and do kaamiya of naam mantra given by enlightened soul recite with full faith like how gangka papan did. Non-amritdhari shouldnt distant themselves from siri guroo granth sahib ji when it comes to inspiration. Non-Amritdhari's shouldnt waste their time on fools who are not acccepting them as sikh..because all these labels are pretty pathetic...whats in the label??

Akaal purkh and Akaal purkh bhagat's doesnt not belong to any relegion. They only belong to Akaal purkh themselves.

Some fool hindu's claimed guroo nanak sahib nirankar was a hindu and some fool muslims claimed guroo nanak sahib nirankar was a muslim. Quite frankly, they all lost the plot and didnt realised the real thing which is guroo nanak sahib nirankar was nirankar himself in sargun saroop of vaheguroo who doesnt have any relegion. Guroo maharaj belongs to nirankar and his bhagats. No one has monolpy over vaheguroo/guroo nanak sahib nirankar.

They should go out use sggs ji as their true inspiration and find master to make their life safli if they dont wish to take amrit. It may sound to good to be true that in this time.. how can you find true master .. its hard after all there soo many fakes.. trust me guys... if you 110% faith in vaheguroo and biraag towards vaheguroo you will find a master. Read the lives of baba farid... how he struggles to get prabhu prapti... 36 yrs of wandering around... he never gave up until his last breath, finally he found a master...... even when crow came to eat his eyes.. he begged to crow.. please dont eat my eyes and eat rest of my body if you like because i want to see allah with my eyes.. dont eat them yet...

I m sowwie if my post is long or i have lost plot.. but i really feel for those non-amritdharis who get discrminated by khatar singhs ( our way is only way)- If that was a case there shouldnt be sect called- Udhasi Sikhs. Who are followers of a master and still consider as sikhs.

Bhulf chuk mafh

akaaaaaaaaaaal hiiiiiiiiiiiii akaaaaaaaaal

anand hiiiiiiiiii anand

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I was the dude who made that post. I wasn't trying to compare naam simran of Non-AmritDharis and AmritDharis. All I was trying to say was that no one can tell me that naam simran probably shouldnt be done if you are non-amritdhari. It gives me peace of mind and is changing my life so of course it bears fruit (Tapoban.com dudes disagree with me though).

I'm sure that naam simran of AmritDharis (who keep rehat) is much stronger because the Pun Payarey did instill naam within them but I don't understand the discouragement not to do it.

n30, I don't agree with your post about finding a master to get naam but I'm glad you are sharing your views.

Why do Non-Amritdharis not take amrit? Bottomline is they are not ready to give their heads to Guru Ji. The reason could be that they are still learning and preparing themselves since they know many so called "Amritdharis" who are definitely not role model material. But just because they are non-AmritDhari doesn't mean that their prayers will go unanswered and Bhagti is a waste.

Just my opinion, Bhul Chuk Maaf.

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Guest Punjabi Nationalist

Why do Non-Amritdharis not take amrit? Bottomline is they are not ready to give their heads to Guru Ji. The reason could be that they are still learning and preparing themselves since they know many so called "Amritdharis" who are definitely not role model material.

Or more simply that some people are just not as religious as others, therefore do not take Amrit.

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Hdw,

Let me clarify what i really meant since i said you need master to get naam.

I m goin to go through two events which are discussed in sri guroo granth sahib ji.

First example gangka papan-

Gangka Papan was a prostitute who did soo many paaps but there was something inside that was making her feel bad. Perhaps her spitual seed from pichaie janam were growing. She always wanted to get rid of her prostitute life and wash her sins and do bandagi of vaheguroo forever. She eventually met a mahatama where she was given a parrot who could recite "Raam Naam" every morning. Parrot was given because so that she can get used to naam simran after reciting after the parrot "Ram" "Ram". While doing this pratice after couple of yrs, at one night snake came in her house just before she parrot can get her up. Snake went in little pinjara and ate the parrot. She got up late this time and it was bright darkness. She called parrot.. but parrot didnt responded. Upon, touching the pinjara with her hand, snake who ate the parrot was she still in the pinjara bite her and there she yelled "Vahiguroo" at the moment of death and went straight to sachkhand

Second example- Salvation through name Naryaan.

Once there was a mahatma, who had a student (ajamal). After getting married student start playing around with other women and lost touch with mahatma. Student eventually had a son which he took at mahtam's sharan and mahatma name him "Narayan". His son did bandagi as well.

Anyways to cut long sakhi short, when the actual student was in his deathbed, he yelled narayan naryan his son. Mahatma did pure kirpa on him because he knew student will die soon and so he named his children who was enlightened soul later Narayan which is god's name. When he yelled Narayan Narayan and he died and he went to straight to sachkhand as well even though of his deeds. "Naryan" name had a shakti. Shakti of what? Shakti of that mahtama's naam kamiya on the word "Narayan".

These are couple of events of many occured and which are discussed in siri guroo granth sahib ji.

Siri guroo granth sahib ji is universal message to all human kind.

A person who is born as sikh or not born as sikh, doesnt really matter. The matter is one's path to choose. A non-sikh can use siri guroo granth sahib ji teaching in their lifes. Siri guroo granth sahib ji is soo deep that even if you take one gurbani tuk apply in their daily life and use that in daily naam simran.. your life is safli....

Now, i dont know whats wrong sikhs out there when other people wants to get laha off teaching. They can use bhagata's bani and follow their life style and still be sikhs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Main aim is get darshan of vaheguroo in sargun form and merge with him forever. If someone is more attached with baba farid, bhagat kabir than our guroo sahiban.. whats the problem??

There is absouletly no difference between guroo maharaj ji and his bhagats..Yes, for materalistic eyes there can difference because they all aim at deh and they all care for labels that is fine but no one actually look things deeper which is recongnizing the same jot (light). When sikhs start realising that guroo maharaj is not body but one jot of akaal purkh.. in that one jot- all guroo's, prophets, pir, pagavar, fakirs, mahatma, mahapursh, bhramgyani consist in that one jot of nirankar.

In my conclustion- Talking of khanda batta da amrit should be encouraged with inspiration not forced by puttin others down(mona). They should tell this reality of sikhi. They should only show ways to get their. Taking boat of guroo maharaj ji way by taking amrit or taking boat of ways of bhagats,mahatama, bhramgyanis, mahapursh its entirely up to individual because it may look different way but in reality- its not. They are same!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All are merging with the one same super cosmic soul ikonkar- vahiguroo/ram/allah

I hope i m clear this time

Bhul chuk maff

akaaaaaaaaaaaaaal hiiiiiiiiiiiiiii akaaaaaaaaaaaaal

anand hiiiiiiiiiiiii anand :D

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Some of the greatest Mahatatmas and Mahapurash in Sikhi have been non-amritdhari...... :wink:

Baba Jagta Ji,

Baba Adan Shah,

Baba Hazari Ji,

Baba Kanhaiya Ji,

Baba Seva Raam,

Baba Sahai Raam,

Baba Raleea Raam,

Baba Bhallaa Raam,

Bhai Rangi Raam Udasi (the Ustaad of Raagi Bhai Sahib Bhai Avtaar Singh Ji)

Raja Sahib Ji.... :arrow:

...need i mention countless other great NON-AMRITDHARI souls who are greatly respected within the panth as MAHAPURAKHS.... :D

Is there singh on any of their names? :roll:

No.. :shock: ..they are non-amritdharis.. :shock: ..so how can anyone say non-amritdharis cant do simran... :twisted:

Jus look at the photo of Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale standing next to a NON-AMRITDHARI UDASI MAHAPURAKH! :LOL:

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Here is the picture of mahapurkhs that challenge-everything mentioning. Sant baba gurbachan singh ji, sant baba ishar singh ji rara sahib with udasi saint.

Dhan Dhan Guru Maharaj ji

Dhan Dhan Khalsa Panth Ji

Dhan Dhan Sant/mahatam's who doesnt generlize between amrit-dharis or non-amritdharis sikhs/saints

Enjoy the picture :D

Picture itself says thousands words that we cant say :D

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Baba Jagta Ji,

Baba Adan Shah,

Baba Hazari Ji,

Baba Kanhaiya Ji,

Baba Seva Raam,

Baba Sahai Raam,

Baba Raleea Raam,

Baba Bhallaa Raam,

Bhai Rangi Raam Udasi (the Ustaad of Raagi Bhai Sahib Bhai Avtaar Singh Ji)

Raja Sahib Ji....

Buddy! CE, can you start one thread for every individual and let

us know about their life?

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  • 1 month later...

I got this from sikhnet:

Naam simran is also practiced by the sufis of islam. In arabic it is known as Dhikr. U basically close ur eyes and mediate on Allah's names. There is also a stage that a person finally reaches which every second of his heart beat he will say meditate the word Allah.
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Japping the Name is transformed into Simran (rememberence) The repetition of the name (ie: Allah, Waheguru, Ram, Om) creates the Remeberence of him (simran). But a time comes when Simran or the constant reptition of his name will be lost, and all that will remain is his Simran without a name for he is nameless himself.

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Pheena, yes so I don't understand when people say japping his naam is fruitless to those that are not Amritdhari. Would they rather us call him Allah or Raam? These are certain attributes (Allah, Raam, Gobind, Har) of God, so why not jap the complete true name Waheguru. Afterall isn't this how we best remember God?

got this from another poster on Tapoban.org:

Khatree braahaman sood vais ko japi Hari Mantar japaainee: Anyone, from any class — Shatriya, Brahman, Soodra or Vaishya — can chant, and meditate on the Mantra of God's Name (sggs 800).

bhul chuk maaf in anything I said wrong.

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