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Muharram Lectures 2004: Sayed Mahdi Modarresi


Guest Javanmard
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This site looks set to become Shia Awareness rather

than Sikh Awareness.

Rather than asking the young ones here to attend Gurmat lectures, do Vichar of Gurbani, inculcate teachings of Gurbaani in our daily life, ..is this what we wanna do ..attend Shia lectures..

Turkon ki sangat karai us kusangat main n karai ant ko

veh narak main jaeiga

He who takes part in the sangat of the Muslims is

bound for hell in the end.

This sangat is described a kusangat ( false assembly )

which is the opposite of sat sangat = true assembly

This Rehatnama also says

Musalman matrai akhiyan ein ki biswas na karai

Consider Muslim as matrai ( not related ir not

brotherly ) and never trust them

Bhai Chaupa Singh Rehatnama says

Turk nal dosti na karai atai visah na karai

Tusk dai hathon pani n peevai

Turk nal ral na savai Turk di sugandh ki eitbar na

karai

Turk ki zabaani gyan charcha sun kai mohit n hoye

Do not make friends with a Muslim or trust him. Do not

drink water at a Muslims's hand. Do not associate or

gather with Muslims and never place reliance on a

Muslim's oath. Never become influenced by the

language, learning or debate skills of a Muslim

Looks like Lalleshvari has already become influenced

by this Shia!

Now Now Lalleshvari Ji dont tell us that Turk refers to Turkish people....not iranis, turranis, arab - muslims ..

Another Thing lalleshvari Ji:

Chaupa Singh Rahitnama also says that one who learns Arabic and Farsi, is a Tankhaiya and you always advocate that we as sikhs learn these languages ......

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Chaupa Singh Rahitnama also says that one who learns Arabic and Farsi, is a Tankhaiya and you always advocate that we as sikhs learn these languages ......

so i guess that means bhai nand lal is tankhaiya... right?

& zafarnama was written in farsi... so that makes guru gobind singh ji... ? :shock:

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« Why is there evil in the world? »

that was an excellent speech.....would u consider him a synonym of a Katha Vachak or something greater?? Im amazed how he spoke of Cause and effect, Karma is something the Muslims i've talked to never accepted...yet he speaks of the freedom of WILL he has given us. It was a very good listen. Thanks

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Up to that point, it was good, but until he got to 45:45 he starts to talk about being in a Budhist Temple and he asked who their god is and the preacher said, you are god, i am god....'Shivo Hum'. He said that was Wrong... his lack of knowledge on the Self-Realization hindered him into understading what the Priest of the Temple had said.

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...opic.php?t=2717

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Dear 'Self Proclaimed Scholar Jeo':

There is a different between respect and giving the status of Guru or Prophet (in muslim terminology) to someone. The muslims (to the best of my knowledge, respect Guru Nank Dev Ji as a Fakir, not as a Guru, they do not accord the status of Baani (divine revelation) to Gurbaani. You may call Prophet Mohammed a Prophet, but do they accord the same respect to the Gurus ??

Has it something to do with the Prophet proclaiming himself to be the seal of al prophets, that there would be no future prophets after him ! ?

Was the fight of the prophet, for making the unbelievers, believe in God, or was it for making them believe in himself. If the earlier, than I fail to understand ..the muslim Kalima, and why it is necessary to read it to enter heaven. Also if the earlier, then why the massacre of Jews in cold blood ?

3. Regarding the quote from Babbarsher the word Turk applies to Mughals, not Muslims in general and definitely not Shias. Pir Budhu Shah was a Shia and so were many ministers of Maharaja Ranjit SIngh's darbar. Does that make Guru Gobind SIngh a tankhaya?

Scholar Ji, dont take double standards here. You use the very same Sources, to proove your points and seem to accept the sources without any hitch when they serve your purposes. (For e.g. the Kesh post). Similalrly you tend to use Bahi Kahn Singh Nabha's Mahaan Kosh to suit ur purposes when required, while at other places, conveniently skip over sections of Mahaan Kosh like - the Note on Wajib Ul Arz _ Does this reflect your scholarlly unbiased attitude.

Also, the word Turk doesnt apply to Mughals in the Rahitnam. You did miss out "Musalman matrai akhiyan ein ki biswas na karai "

4. This is the Islamic section of this forum and posting this link was not wrong. I just wanted to show what quality of vichar SHias get on a regular basis. I may not agree with everything he says but sure is: it's quality and I think we should strive to give the sangat that quality of vichar!

I think you ought to teach Sangat here about sikhi first, make them 'parpak' in sikhi first. Once they have indepth knowledge of sikhi, it would have been apt to make such links known/or making them subject to the lectures of other religions/sects.

Muslims/Shias have enuff sites which proclaim their religion. educate their people. I wonder how many of them actually mention Guru Nanak Dev Ji or Guru Gobind Singh Ji on their website, or mention to their followers about the Universality of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and the gems contained therein.

Does the Sayyed, accept the divine message of the Gurus, or tell his followers to accept the teachnings of the Gurus ?

We would rather let Shias mind their own business and mind our own business.

5. I doubt very much that either BabbarSher and Truthseeker have actually watched more than 15 hours of lectures since yesterday when I posted this link. Strange how people make judgements without properly investigating things.

Your doubts hold true Lalleshvari. I think it much better to read about my religion, and do Vichaar based upon our modern sikh scholars, whom you more or less reject - basing your arguments upon the old manuscripts, which you seem to quote selectively.

We have not made a judegment, merely pointed out to you the text of the same sources as that you use.

8. The thread is about Muharram and Imam Hussain (as) not agha Khomeini.

Still the sangat would appreciate your scholarly inputs into what has been quoted at homa.org (or have the mistranslated .....persian...as this is one of your most ready arguments)

10. Educate before you criticise.If you want to criticse a scholar become a scholar yourself!!!

LOL

My advice, to you : Scholar Jee, use your good brain to teach the young ones here about sikhi.....once u have done that, we will let u teach about other sects, religions etc. etc.

To Guv:

BabbarSher wrote:

Chaupa Singh Rahitnama also says that one who learns Arabic and Farsi, is a Tankhaiya and you always advocate that we as sikhs learn these languages ......

so i guess that means bhai nand lal is tankhaiya... right?

& zafarnama was written in farsi... so that makes guru gobind singh ji... ?

Guv I just used an indirect manner to make across my point....

LOL : man just something which I have highlighted, Wonder where you were when lalleshvari used the same Rahitnama, to proove his points on Kesh ............................;-)

Cant have double standards can we ....................... ????

Now shall we take Chaupa Singh Rahitnama as it is .. on the whole or shal we separte tyhe chaff from the grains.

The point Guv is that if some "scholar" has to debate, he should do it unbiased without trying to proove his "scholarly" skills and he should be consistent in his thoughts, not opportunistic. The point is to educate our young ones in sikhi ....not to proove our communciation, or scholarly skills.

If I have conufused you, just send me a PM, and I will readily clarify.

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lalleshvari

I based my judgement not only on those lectures, which I heard long before you posted them here at http://shiasource.com/Lectures/Modarresi.a...leText=Lectures

but on other articles of him as well.

I was also not refering to any "imposed" dress, but equal opportunity

in things like political leadership, from which he says , females are barred.

I dont see dress as so important, its only superficial.

Strange how Shia girls don't feel tempted to become Sikhs...
How do you know it does not happen? Shurely there are many who become atheist, Christian, I know someone who became Hindu. It depends on the person of the seeker.
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Well last time I remember that Babbarsher said that "Bhai Gurdas is no authority in SIkhi" and he calls himslef a Sikh!!! Please let me laugh: hahahahhahahahhhaaa

he also wrote:

You are right about ChaupaSIngh rahitnama but then again we are talking about a military context and of Sunni-Mughals in particular. Again your position is totally contradicted by the historical fact that Pir Budhu Shah (a Shia) made an alliance with Guru Gobind Singh.!

Methinks the joke's on you, it was Jamuka who made the comment about Bhai Gurdas and not Babbar Sher. The Admin has already corrected Jamuka about this. It is very sad that you find the need to lay a false accusation against Babbar Sher just to try and make yourself feel better because you have been unable to counter his views. In my view he is giving a Gursikh view whilst you make stuff up as you go along.

I would accept you to make a full apology to Babbar Sher and if not then can the administrators take action against lalleshvari

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Up to that point, it was good, but until he got to 45:45 he starts to talk about being in a Budhist Temple and he asked who their god is and the preacher said, you are god, i am god....'Shivo Hum'. He said that was Wrong... his lack of knowledge on the Self-Realization hindered him into understading what the Priest of the Temple had said.

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...opic.php?t=2717

This is a great observation brother. It is impossible for those who come from the rigid background like Islam to understand concepts which mohammed did not write about in the koran

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Thank you for giving me your permission Babbasher ji! I did not know you were a moderator here on this site!!!

Nahin scholar sahib, I am not a Moderator, but if you keep up such views, of miseducating young sikhs, you will find me in all such posts .. that you may make

You are right about ChaupaSIngh rahitnama but then again we are talking about a military context and of Sunni-Mughals in particular. Again your position is totally contradicted by the historical fact that Pir Budhu Shah (a Shia) made an alliance with Guru Gobind Singh.

I only posted from the texts you advise. Whats wrong with that ?

You seem to change your statements and contexts faster then a Chameleon

Pir Buddhu Shah Ji was a blessed person who recognised the Jot in Guru Ji. He did not make a 'political' alliance with Guru Ji. People who make political alliance dont sacrifice their sons.

Pir Ji recognised Guru Ji because he was blessed, not because he was Shia.

Have the sikhs never fought the shias or been hunted by the Shias during the time of Misls and thereafter?

It's not about having the same opinion but about dialogue: which is

exactly what our Gurus did!

Dialogue, Yes, propaganda......even the gentle brainwashing kind... no ..

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Methinks the joke's on you, it was Jamuka who made the comment about Bhai Gurdas and not Babbar Sher. The Admin has already corrected Jamuka about this. It is very sad that you find the need to lay a false accusation against Babbar Sher just to try and make yourself feel better because you have been unable to counter his views. In my view he is giving a Gursikh view whilst you make stuff up as you go along.

I would accept you to make a full apology to Babbar Sher and if not then can the administrators take action against lalleshvari

:D agree with you 100% ! Come on Lalleshvari let's see you say sorry!

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