Namdhari Sangeet?

[SAadmin]

Please stick to the topic. This topic is about Namdhari-Sangeet. You can create a new topic for all the off-topic debate.

Any off-topics will be deleted from this point and topic will be locked.

[cybersingh]

:sikhsmile:

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh

In regards to this post, I agree with fatehsingh when he mentioned that the info given is false when the british gave them money. If Namdhari's were "supposedly doing business" with the British then why would they go against them. Namdhari's actually fought against them to have them leave India but that's for another day.

As for the question as to why namdhari's are good at classical sangeet is because that they practice throughtout the whole day on sangeet and kirtan. The namdhari's guru baba jagjit singh ji has sent his students to every maestro known for classical sangeet and had them train under their guidance. He puts a lot if importance and emphasis on classical sangeet/kirtan. I myself am from a namdhari background and I guess I am too and if anyone wants to know more then plz feel free to email me at gursevb@hotmail.om

[Guest]

Well, it is really simple to figure out. They practice hard while learning classical music and instruments and they become expert. I would say that "Rababi Singhs" are as great as Namdhari. I love Rababi Singhs classical kirtan.

Few Rababi Singhs are below.

Dilbag Singh, Gulbag Singh

Bhai Amrik Singh Jee Jakhmi

Bhai Shamsher Singh Jakhmi

[Guest]

Notice from that picture that the Puraatan Namdharis did not tie predominant Kuka style dastar.

I heard that is also the kind of execution many of the 1957 mutineers received.

Does it matter what style paag they wear?

[Guest Sardar Moderator Singh]

Dear All,

This thread was primarily designed for the discussion of Namdharis and Gurmat Sangeet -those wishing to discuss Namdharis in particular, there is an old tread on the topic to which Veer Fateh Singh has contributed significantly on behalf of the Namdhari Sangat and Bikramjit Singh in the main on mainstream Sikh Sangat -please refer there, if if needs be, begin a new thread should anyone have any new aspects of "Namdharis" generically that they may wish to discuss.

Those wishing to continue discussions on this thread, please keep comments from here on relevant to "Gurmat Sangeet and Namdharis".

By all means, further discussion of the seemingly incendiary and incongruous hypothesis concerning British financial support of the Namdharis and their Sangeet may continue with necessary supporting comments and references, otherwise please refrain from mere speculation and tittle-tattle.

Thanking you all.

[jbudwal]

1st of all i would like say that I am glad that everyone liked the Namdhari Sangeet. 1st of I all I would like to appoin that guru ram singh ji did not go to burma on holidays. secondly guru rams singh ji was exiled in in 1872 and disappeared from prision in 1885.

The reaons why the namdhari sikhs were executed was that the fact that they saved the holy cow from being salughtered by the butchers. Few of the the Namdhari sikhs killed butchers and released the defenceless animals. When the British found out the truth about this, they executed the namdhari sikhs with out a fair trial. The British accused Satguru Ram Singh Ji for encouraging the namdhari sikhs for the slaying of the Butchers without any proof. The ironic thing about this history was that, Satguru Ram Singh Ji was ready for his exiled before an arrest warrant was issued.

Because of Satguru Partap Singh ji and Satguru Jagjit Singh ji's kirpa that the Namdhari's have become masters of classical music. Without their blessings none of this could have happened.

If you would like to listen to namdhari classical music. please visit the following sites.

1. www.namdhari-world.com Click on Sangeet.

2. www.namdhari.faithweb.com Click on Namdhari Radio.

[kaur-uk]

one aspect why us namdharis have exceld in music is becuase we are the only people that have kept or have been lucky to keep actual bandishes (tunes) from amritsar made by the gurus.

[SAadmin]

one aspect why us namdharis have exceld in music is becuase we are the only people that have kept or have been lucky to keep actual bandishes (tunes) from amritsar made by the gurus.

Not the only people, one of few though, lets not over exaggerate here. !

[kaur-uk]

lol apologies, that was my brother posting under my name- thats what happens when u leave ure computor runnin people... but he was right, but yes neo, only 'one' of few....

[Niranjana]

I like some Kirtan sung by Namdharis, however let's not get ahead of ourselves. The reality is, the reason they are good is simple, when we look at the style of singing, the time frame during which Namdharis adopted Hindustani Sangeet as a whole and what bandishes are actually sung.

The reality is that 'Namdhari Sangeet' as we know it today is vastly different from that 100 or so years ago, when they too like the much touted 'Sant Samaj' style kirtan sung with Dholak and Shanney.

The adoption of Hindustani sangeet has occurred by Namdharis under the reign of their recent 2 Sat Gurus and is largely the result of money and influence as well as good old cultural passion for Hindustani Sangeet.

There is vast money within mainstream Sikh Circles too, however they would rather spend it on dodgy gold replating of the Harmandir Sahib in the name of 'seva' or in court cases to wrestle Gurdwara control.

Namdharis, like other fringe movements of other religions (e.g. Ismalis amongst Muslims), overtime develop a social status and segment coupled with economic success actually, contrary to their mainstream detractors have their leaders fund scholars, musicologists and other cultural and heritage matters.

The fact is that the modern Namdhari Musicians ('Pinky', Surjeet Singh, Kiranpal Singh, Ranbir Singh, Baljeet & Gurmeet Singh, Gurdev Singh etc etc) are all products of the 'social, economic and political ties' that their Sat Gurus have developed over the past 50 or so years, allowing them to have sponsored access to proper music training (unlike the shambles that most Sikhs - Tat Khalsa, Sanatan, Mainstream or whatever, like to refer to as Kirtan and music today!)

But to argue that Namdharis have preserved the bandishes of the Gurus is absurd when one listens to what actually gets sung and moreover to suggest that the Namdharis were always upholders of classical sangeet from their inception is again incorrect when one looks at historical accounts of early Namdharis (and of course listens to old recordings of their divans).

Also, the fact that the overwhelming majority of Namdharis are Tarkhans is no surprise, since even amongst mainstream circles it is usually Tarkhans amongst Sikhs who keep a passion for music within their families beyond Bhangra or Bollywood (and its counterpart rip-off in Kirtan as sung by commercial ragis or Jathabandis), be it simple kirtan or actually full out classical training (re: the late Avtar Singh Ragi and family, Rohan Singh Bhogal, Jagjit Singh etc).

In the end whatever the case, it is good to see people actually learning and appreciating the wealth of sangeet and its devotional attributes. Let's just hope that the focus remains on Sikhs improving as musicians in this respect rather than using this as yet another tool to argue amongst themselves!!!

[Dynamic_Banda]

To be honest with ya all.. I love raags..

But nothing beats a good ol' classical sangeet style dholi shena bash..

Plus the investment into raags was a good means as to move away from the kooking ! As you will also notice very few kooks can kook to raags..

Its a pity to be honest as kooking is something that the kooke have kept since the early days of sikhi..

[kaur-uk]

hahaha dynamic banda i agree! but there hav bin sum kook's goin kook to raag!! but if u listen to the way alot of namdhari's do raag kirtan especially th hazoori...it is very lively and still in raag and so leads to kooking...but true, dholki shane is grrreat! but i dont think th investment into raag was th means to get away from the kooking! it was an investment into th purtan tradition of err....well...gurmat sangeet...duh!