End of the World

[Singh47]

N30 Singh, what I wanna know is... when the heck did a bra and pajamaa become 'makeup'? what next, are you also going to classify a house as 'makeup'? or maybe even a car?

“Beauty of style and harmony and grace and good rhythm depends on simplicity.â€

N30 Singh, instead of pressurizing women to look good for the superficial eye of this male dominated society, you should spend more of your time in doing paath & puja of Vaheguru who unlike some does not judge someone based on how good they painted their face with 'makeup'.

[Guest]

“Beauty of style and harmony and grace and good rhythm depends on simplicity.”

Again depending on what's individual defination of simplicity is? that should vary...

When did i pressuraize women to do anything?? .. i m using same logic as those sighniyas on tapoabn to beat their own talibanistic views... ie- if they think wearing jewellery, nail posh, creams, powder on one's face is anti-gurmat .. what about wear different flavours of bra? ,different brands of sandles?? diffferent types of clothing?? Yes that should be Anti-GURMAT as well they should take all different types of sandles, bra, clothing from their house and burn them and say aloudly (VAHIGUROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO) then I would be convinced that they are pracitising what they are preaching !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My advice is to you and freinds on tapoban - Live and let Live. !

[Singh47]

oh so now sandles and cloths are also makeup? holy crow! :shock: what next, are you also going to call food as makeup?

you need to look beyond a good paintjob on a persons face. You should judge someone by their actions and not by the amount of paint they have on their face.

Makeup is all fake and a huge lie. The great seal of truth is simplicity.

by labeling your opposition as tapoban, akj, taliban you cannot turn falsehood into the truth. It doesn't make sense, you are not attacking the argument but rather the person behind the argument.

[Guest]

Makeup is all fake and a huge lie. The great seal of truth is simplicity.

Real Simplicity is how your treat others?? /how your heart is?? you guys still at - cham dristhi (looking at phsyical apperances and judging) by putting fellow singhiya's down by fedding bullocks of guilty game is biggest low life technique i have ever came across with.

your dissing proves that you don't appreciate sikh royality my freind, you don't apprecitate - Raj and Jog given by siri gurooo gobind singh ji to us.

If it's up to you guys - you would claim - wives of siri guro hargobind sahib ji and siri guroo gobind singh ji when they dress up like maha rani's (jewellery, make up etc) as man mat.

this is really funny..lol

[Singh47]

so typical of you N30 Singh. You are attacking the person instead of his argument. As soon as you are under the grill you resort to start bashing him one as kattar, taliban and that other mumbo jumbo.

your dissing proves that you don't appreciate sikh royality my freind, you don't apprecitate - Raj and Jog given by siri gurooo gobind singh ji to us.

so now Sikh royalty is next to God? this is the same royalty which indulges in perverse sexual orgies. Although I would go into detail about the perverted stuff "Sikh" royalty has done, but I'm afraid that it might not be suitable for the little kids visiting this site.

whether you like it or not, makeup is falsehood, a scam performed by people who don’t have enough confidence in their natural god given appearance, so they have to fabricate a new one by painting themselves up. That is what it comes down to and that is reality.

[drawrof]

I don't know how this topic has gotten to where it has from where it has started.

I believe makeup isn't that important, as an issue...I don't see it as altering nature either. I personally am not a fan of makeup, but thats me.

I see it as a concealer by most, but I choose not to judge anyone because some people are above the reasons for and against it and even if they do do it, it is because they see god in the process...understand what I am getting at here. It can be seen as a compromise of one's own god given beauty but it can also be seen as a minor addition in life..

Now, I don't think it should be enforced on anyone..either way, but rather the husband should help the wife feel better about her self and make her feel more loved because god does that with us, and in imbibing that quality we can do the same. It is a fact that women are prone to the expectations of them in society, but real beauty and appreciation is only felt genuinely when genuine appreciation and reinforcements are given on the other side.

I guess my point is, lets get beyond the do's and don'ts and actually love our partners. That love will give one less reason for your partner to hate god....because eventually that is what happens when one feels disjointed.

[Guest Javanmard]

I believe in the religion of Love, whatever direction its caravans may take, for Love is my religion and my faith - Ibn 'Arabi

[Singh47]

Lalleshwari,

Henna, collyrium, turmeric (haldi), oil, and sandalwood is not makeup when used by the Indians. They were used because of their therapeutic purposes, similar to how westerners use lotions, moisturizers etc, yet you will not see these being classified as “makeupâ€. Makeup as you pointed out is when one tries to conceal ones real appearance. Unfortunately because of western influence, Sikh women have also begun this trend of painting up their faces.

“ps. let the women of Guru Gobind Singh's Khalsa be beautiful queens and let the slave-mades of Ram Rai live in perpetual disgrace!!!â€

although as Sikhs we are not suppose to affiliate with the followers of Baba Ram Rai Jee. But, as a ‘Sikh’ you should not refer to other women as ‘slave mades’ and then curse them to ‘perpetual disgrace’. They are also someone’s sisters and daughters. A Singh will protect a women’s honour (izzat) whether she is a Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Radhaswami, Ram Raiya etc as he would protect the izzat of his sister, daughter and mother.

[Guest Javanmard]

I believe in the religion of Love, whatever direction its caravans may take, for Love is my religion and my faith - Ibn 'Arabi

[CK]

I don't think a man forcing a woman to look a certain way is gurmat.

[BAZ]

OMG the more I look at the sikh community the more parallels I see with my muslim community. Tapoban = Wahabbi?

Whats all this about women looking like clowns with makeup on? Wearing earings and necklaces is something prostitutes used to do!?!?! I guess women should stop wearing shoes too because I have seen prozies wearing those aswell. Oh yeah and get rid of bangles too.

Ok I gotta admit that some women fresh of the boat dont know how to wear make up but a little trip to the MAC counter will fix that lol.

On a serious note can anyone give exact quotes from Bani that says makeup is forbidden to women?

[HeyDudesWassup]

It does not say anywhere in bani that makeup is forbidden. Some people just get a kick out of controlling others.

[Singh47]

Baz, so a person becomes a ‘Wahabi’ if one attempts to break the shackles of social slavery on women that the male dominated society has imposed on them? Wow!

On the other hand, pressurizing women to conform to the slavery of this bias society is NOT ‘Wahabism’?

I guess people who try to reform society to equality, simplicity and Gurmat will always be labeled as Wahabi/Taliban etc. It is similar to how some people tried to tarnish the Singh Sabha reforms/revivals as ‘British influenced’. Or how some people during the 1980’s would tarnish Sant Jernail Singh Bhindrawalay as ‘India’s Khomeini’, ‘puppet of Sanjay Gandhi’ and some would even call him a ‘Brahman’ because of his religious strictness. In the end of the day, Gursikhs don’t really give a damn of what some people think of them. All they care is what their Guru thinks of them, because that is the only opinion that matters.

[Beast]

What if religious fanatics pressurize a woman NOT to wear make up?

Is this not pressurising women to confirm to the slavery of a biased interpretation of religion/society?

[Singh47]

beast, spoken like a true Taliban yourself. You remind of of those Wahabis who pretend to portray their male diminated rules as 'liberation' for women. While any attempt to equate women to men is always put down as fanaticism by the wahabis. It seems like we have our own Wahabis online here. Please stop presurising our sisters to remain slaves.

[BAZ]

"Baz, so a person becomes a ‘Wahabi’ if one attempts to break the shackles of social slavery on women that the male dominated society has imposed on them? Wow!"

... Wow indeed! All that just because of a little bit of lipstick and foundation eh? lol

Singh47 ... Wahabbis tend to blow things waaaaay out of proportion and make the smallest thing seem like a grave sin. For God's sake its only a bit of lipstick to make a women look and feel pretty. Some women have natural beauty and some dont. Some want to make themselves look better to feel a little better about themselves. All this nonsense about social slavery etc... give me a break.

Show me a direct quote from Bani that says makeup is forbidden... not a quote which can be interpreted into an extreme view. If there is no direct and explicit quote then this subject is open to interpretation.

"In the end of the day, Gursikhs don’t really give a damn of what some people think of them. All they care is what their Guru thinks of them, because that is the only opinion that matters."

... well I suppose Gursikhs who have the opposite view to yours on this subject can also say the same thing.

[sexy_singh]

well said beast .

whats wrong with leaving sikh women the freedom to decide what is appropriate? hang on, that doesnt mean we throw out all the boundaries because thats ideal. if i coloured my dhari, whats wrong with that?

im still wearing my dhari right? if i was rolling around in mud, because god forbid life demanded that of me, would i have sinned or somethin? what if im working in the field and by the end of the day my dhari is covered in dust, would that be wrong? baring in mind, i wouldnt mind that affect as it might look cool.

what if my kid has a birthday party and decided to sprinkle glow in the dark glitter on my dhari, would i get upset and tell it to stop. hmm, i prolly would tell it to stop.

anyway, i respect ppl who decide not to wear makeup cuz they are comfortable with their body and dont care so much what others think about that, good for them. i dont think the others are being dismissive of such a person.

[Singh47]

Baz, simplicity and modesty are part of the way of life for those who walk on the path of Dharm. Makeup is the total opposite of that. It is an egoistic display that one flaunts for the admiration and seduction of others.

And no, you will not find a tukh in Guru Granth Sahib jee that forbids makeup directly. But it is against the rehet. Not everything in the rehet is written in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. SGGSJ does not tell us to wear five Kakkars directly, yet does that mean we should abandon the Kakkari rehet? SGGSJ does not tell us directly to do Panj Ishnana before doing seva of Maharaaj, yet does that mean we should abandon this aspect of our rehet?

These rehets are part of our tradition passed down orally from generation to generation through the Panj Pyaray. Whether you Amrit-Shak from an amrit sanchaar conducted by SGPC, AKJ, Dami-dami Taksal, the Panj Pyaras always give a hukam to the bibis to stay away from makeup and jewelry that alter the natural appearance given to them by Vaheguru, similarly to how they tell the men not to colour their beards. I know for a fact that Damdami Taksal even discourages men from tying their beards as Sant Jernail Singh Bhindrawalay would say ‘tuni muni ek barabar’. The Panj Pyaras are Guru-roop for us. I don’t know about others, but for me our traditions are to be preserved, and hukams to be followed. I would follow the Panj Pyaras any day over today’s ‘modern’ society.

[sexy_singh]

singh, thats silly. as a male i can get turned on by anything, even pictures of aliens. makeup can make a difference, but if looking to be seduced i'll be seduced anyway, regardless of makeup.

it should be my imperative to resist losing control of my senses. we arent animals right?

[HeyDudesWassup]

whatever singh47,

before you know it wahabis will be forbidding deoderant and candy. Times change and we evolve with them, common sense is the key.

[Singh47]

whatever gets you through the day 'heydudewassap'

BTW, are you saying we should ‘evolve’ our rehet? We should conform to societies norms rather then our rehet? Strange, I always thought that our rehet was timeless, and did not need any moderation and alteration. I guess some of you have been living in the west for way too long that our rehet seems to be a little too old and needs to be changed to suit your ultra modern lifestyle.

[HeyDudesWassup]

^^display of Wahabism right there, taking EVERYTHING to the extreme.

[Guest]

And no, you will not find a tukh in Guru Granth Sahib jee that forbids makeup directly. But it is against the rehet. Not everything in the rehet is written in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. SGGSJ does not tell us to wear five Kakkars directly, yet does that mean we should abandon the Kakkari rehet? SGGSJ does not tell us directly to do Panj Ishnana before doing seva of Maharaaj, yet does that mean we should abandon this aspect of our rehet?

Rehit..what a nice term... isn't it ??

Rehit are two types

- inner rehit (getting up in amrit vela doing ishanan, take name of vahiguroo, morning prayers, evening and night prayers)

- outer rehit - 5k's/ 4 kurahits(cardinal sins) according to akaal takth ..out of 4 kurahits...3 is common in all the jatha's ie- removing hair, taking intoxicants ie- tabacoo, alchohol, having sex outside marriage...4th one gets (eating meat or not eating meat) gets doomed with conterversy..even in 5 k's - kesh being kakar or keski being kakar gets doomed with conterversy.

if we compare outer rehit with inner rehit you will see- inner rehits hasn't been changed just very slightly (shorten banis etc) but in the panth there is a major conterversy regarding outer rehit.

Singh47, if panth is still not sure about if keski is a kakar or kesh is a kakar, or if panth stills not sure if meat is allowed or not ..being panth not soo sure about these major issues and finally giving sangat options on these two issues... then what makes you sure that panth is strictly against any kinda make up, jewellery (not talkin about peircing here).

straight up there are "certain" inner rehits that includes - make up jewellery..there are no fix rules..because it "evolves"`with time and state of mind.

For you it may be, female who wears jewellery may be too giving to western soceity or being modern but without knowing her intentions, circumstances you cannot judge her and this is where i find some of the members on tapoban distrubing judging their fellow singhinya's based on looks without even knowin that person.

These rehets are part of our tradition passed down orally from generation to generation through the Panj Pyaray. Whether you Amrit-Shak from an amrit sanchaar conducted by SGPC, AKJ, Dami-dami Taksal, the Panj Pyaras always give a hukam to the bibis to stay away from makeup and jewelry that alter the natural appearance given to them by Vaheguru, similarly to how they tell the men not to colour their beards. I know for a fact that Damdami Taksal even discourages men from tying their beards as Sant Jernail Singh Bhindrawalay would say ‘tuni muni ek barabar’. The Panj Pyaras are Guru-roop for us. I don’t know about others, but for me our traditions are to be preserved, and hukams to be followed. I would follow the Panj Pyaras any day over today’s ‘modern’ society.

rehits passed down orally - right right...so as rehit of sukha, rehit of maha-parsad....if you playing rehit game cards with me then i could bring stuff from your beloved rehit namas which will make you un-easy. but i won't do that...you are yourself i think smart enough to know that not all rehitnamas are credible..they have serious credliblity issues.

I am not bound to maryada of taksal, akj, sgpc ..they are part of the panth but they are not panth themselves...panth is made of hundreds beautiful different flavours of roses not just 1, 2, 3 but hundreds of them and that's diversity not division.

Since i am not part of damdami taksal..which mind you has even slightly different maryada from amrit sanchars to amrit sanchars. i don't have to follow everything sant jarnail singh tells the sangat...it does not apply to me - since he was not my panj pyareya.

ps- i don't tie my beard but i have tried it few times..i have stopped not because i m breaking any soo called rehit but i feel un-comfortable tying it...

so make up (ie- jewellery, use nail polish, powder, cream, oil, deodrants, etc etc) does not effect inner rehit of the person nor it effects outer rehit (because it's not cardinal sin ...that's all should matter panthik singho ! re-direct your energy in naam simran instead of being PANTHIC POLICE objecting in people's lives by playing stupid guilt games then getting orgasm of satisfication out of it ??..that's just low... hey guru ji, i made one singhani feel like shiit because she doesn't follow what i follow...i deserve your blessing..

hdw is right, what's next ?? ban on deodrants, leather jackets??

oh serenity please !!!!!!!!! :roll:

[Beast]

honestly speaking....Pamela Anderson is much more beautiful when she doesn't wear makeup. How does that fit in with the "women can't wear makeup coz men ogle them and they are slaves" philosophy?

[challenge_everything]

http://www.ektaone.com/pl_acapella.php