Guest Javanmard Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 I believe in the religion of Love, whatever direction its caravans may take, for Love is my religion and my faith - Ibn 'Arabi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyboy Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Shaka The list was from the website of ayotollah al sistani of Iraq which has subsequently been taken off, maybe he didn't want the najis kuffar to know what his beliefs were! No one ever said non-amritdhari are impure so don't make things up to back your argument. Just because your alim doesn't subscribe to the theory of najis then it doesn't mean that millions of Shia do not. You will come across some ignorant Sikhs taking part in the siapa for hussein but many Sikhs also go to Jwalamukhi and Mandirs. The Gurus ask us to accept the Bhana of Waheguru, beating your chests for a long dead Shia leader is not following the Gurus! Found another very good quote from another Shia ayotollah, Khomeini A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However he should not penetrate, sodomising the child is OK. If the man penetrates and damages the child then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however does not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girls sister. From Khomeini's book, "Tahrirolvasyleh", fourth volume, Darol Elm, Gom, Iran, 1990 Book Title Page/ Cover Inside Cover of Book Excerpt: Page [1] | Page [2] [] It is better for a girl to marry in such a time when she would begin menstruation at her husband's house rather than her father's home. Any father marrying his daughter so young will have a permanent place in heaven. From Khomeini's book, "Tahrirolvasyleh", fourth volume, Darol Elm, Gom, Iran, 1990 A man can have sex with animals such as sheep¹s, cows, camels and so on. However he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village, however selling the meat to the next door village should be fine. From Khomeini's book, "Tahrirolvasyleh", fourth volume, Darol Elm, Gom, Iran, 1990 "If one commits the act of sodomy with a cow, a ewe, or a camel, their urine and their excrements become impure, and even their milk may no longer be consumed. The animal must then be killed and as quickly as possible and burned." The little green book, Sayings of Ayatollah Khomeini, Political, Phylosophica, Social and Religious with a special introduction by Clive Irving, ISBN number 0-553-14032-9, page 47 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh47 Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Bobby Boy Jee, those are some good points. Here are some more Shia beleifs through the saying of Ayatollah Khomeini: "A woman may legally belong to a man in one of two ways; by continuing marriage or temporary marriage. In the former, the duration of the marriage need not be specified; in the latter, it must be stipulated, for example, that it is for a period of an hour, a day, a month, a year, or more." "A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual act such as forplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed. A man having intercourse with a girl younger than nine years of age has not comitted a crime, but only an infraction, if the girl is not permanently damaged. If the girl, however, is permanently damaged, the man must provide for her all her life. But this girl will not count as one of the man's four permanent wives. He also is not permitted to marry the girl's sister." "A father or a paternal grandfather has the right to marry off a child who is insane or has not reached puberty by acting as its representative. The child may not annul such a marriage after reaching puberty or regaining his sanity, unless the marriage is to his manifest disadvantage." "Any girl who is of age, that is, capable of understanding what is in her own best interest, if she wishes to get married and is a virgin, must procure the authorization of her father or paternal grandfather. The permission of her mother or brother is not required." "A marriage is annulled if a man finds that his wife is afflicted with one of the seven following disabilities: madness, leprosy, eczema, blindness, paralysis with aftereffects, malformation of the urinary and genital tracts or of the genital-tract and rectum through conjoining thereof, or vaginal malformation making Coitus impossible." "If a wife finds out after marriage that her husband is suffering from mental illness, that he is a castrate, impotent, or has had his testicles excised, she may apply for annulment of her marriage." "If a wife has her marriage annulled because her husband is unable to have sexual relations with her either vaginally or anally, he must pay her as damages one-half of her mehryeh (her price) specified in the marriage contract. If the husband or wife annuls the marriage for any of the above-mentioned reasons, the man owes nothing to the woman if they have had sexual relations together; if they have not, he must pay her the full amount of the dowry." "A Moslem woman may not marry a non-Moslem man; nor may a Moslem man marry a non-Moslem woman in continuing marriage, but he may take a Jewish or Christian woman in temporary marriage." "A woman who has contracted a continuing marriage does not have the right to go out of the house without her husband's permission; she must remain at his disposal for the fulfillment of any one of his desires, and may not refuse herself to him except for a religiously valid reason. If she is totally submissive to him, the husband must provide her with her food, clothing, and lodging, whether or not he has the means to do so." "A woman who refuses herself to her husband is guilty, and may not demand from him food, clothing, lodging, or any later sexual relations; however, she retains the right to be paid damages if she is repudiated." "If a man who has married a girl who has not reached puberty possesses her sexually before her ninth birthday, inflicting traumatisms upon her, he has no right to repeat such an act with her." "A man who has contracted a continuing marriage may not leave his wife for so long a time as to allow her to question the validity of the marriage; however, he is not obligated to spend one night out of every four with her." "A husband must have sexual relations with his wife at least once in every four months." "A woman who has been temporarily married in exchange for a previously established dowry has no right to demand that her daily expenses be paid by her husband, even when she becomes pregnant." "A temporary marriage, even though only one of convenience, is nevertheless legal." "A man must not abstain from having sexual relations with his temporary wife for more than four months. "If a father (or paternal grandfather) marries off his daughter (or granddaughter) in her absence without knowing for a certainty that she is alive, the marriage becomes null and void as soon as it is established that she was dead at the time of the marriage." "To look upon the face and hair of a girl who has not reached puberty, if it is done without intention of enjoyment thereof, and if one is not afraid of succumbing to temptation, may be tolerated. It is however recommended that one not look upon her belly or thighs, which must remain covered." "To look upon the faces and hands of Jewish or Christian women, if this is not done with intention of enjoyment thereof, and if one does not fear temptation, is tolerated." "A woman must hide her body and her hair from the eyes of men. It is highly recommended that she also hide them from those of prepubic boys, if she suspects that they may look upon her with lust." "If a man is called upon, for medical reasons, to look upon a woman other than his wife and to touch her body, he is permitted to do so,but if he can give such care by only looking at the body he must not touch it, and if he can give it by only touching, he must not look at it." "A woman who becomes pregnant as a result of adultery must not have an abortion. If a man commits adultery with an unmarried woman, and subsequently marries her, the child born of that marriage will be a bastard unless the parents can be sure it was conceived after they were married." "A child born of an adulterous father is legitimate." "The best person to breast-feed a newborn baby it its own mother. It is preferable that she not ask to be paid for such service, but that her husband pay her for it of his own free will. If the sum the mother asks for is greater than that charged by a wet nurse, the husband is free to take the child from its mother and turn it over to the wet nurse." "A man who repudiates his wife must be of sound mind and past the age of puberty. He must do so of his own free will and without any constraint; therefore, if the formula for divorce is spoken in jest the marriage is not annulled." "A woman temporarily married, say, for a month or a year, has her marriage automatically annulled at the end of that time, or at any other time when the husband releases her from the balance of her engagement. It is not necessary for this that there be any witnesses, or that the woman have had her period." "A woman who has not yet reached the age of nine or a menopausal woman may remarry immediately after divorce, without waiting the hundred days that are otherwise required." "A woman who has had her ninth birthday, or who has not yet entered menopause, must wait for three menstrual periods after her divorce before being allowed to remarry. If a woman who has not reached her ninth birthday or who has not entered menopause gets temporarily married, she must, at the end of the contract or when the husband has released her from part of it, wait two menstrual periods or forty-five days before marrying again." "If the father or paternal grandfather of a boy has him marry a woman for a temporary marriage, he may prematurely cancel it in the boy's interest, even if the marriage was contracted before the boy reached the age of puberty. If, for example, a fourteen-year-old boy has been married off to a woman for a period of two years, they may return her freedom to the woman before this time has run its course; but a continuing marriage cannot be broken in this way." "If a man repudiates his wife without informing her of it, and continues to meet her expenses for a period of, say, a year, and at the end of that time informs her that he got a divorce a year earlier and shows her proof of it, he may require that she return to him anything he has bought or given her during that time, provided that she has not used it up or consumed it, in which case he cannot demand its return." "If a child dies within the mother's womb and it is a danger to her life to leave it there, it must be extracted in the easiest way possible; it can. if need be, cut into pieces; this should be done by the woman's husband or a midwife." "A woman who wishes to pursue her studies toward the end of being able to earn her living through respectable work, and who has a male teacher, may do so if she keeps her face covered and has no contact with men; but if-that is inevitable, and religious and moral tenets are thus undermined, she must give up her studies. Girls and boys who attend coeducational classes in grammar schools, high schools, universities, or other teaching establishments, and who, in order to legalize such a situation, wish to contract a temporary marriage may do so without the permission of their fathers. The same applies if the boy and girl are in love but hesitate to ask for such permission." (Teachings of Ayatollah Khomeini, Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 I believe in the religion of Love, whatever direction its caravans may take, for Love is my religion and my faith - Ibn 'Arabi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyboy Posted June 24, 2005 Report Share Posted June 24, 2005 So now two Ayotollahs of Shai Islam are heretics and you know more about Shi'ism then them. How many years have you studied? These two had studied Shi'ism since childhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
challenge_everything Posted June 24, 2005 Report Share Posted June 24, 2005 i don't think u can quote certain religious figures and represent them as the personification of the whole diaspora of a religion. It is like quoting Osama Bin Laden and saying his beliefs are shared by every single sunni. Or quoting weirdos like Mohinder Singh S.D.O (formerly a memeber of the akj) and saying his views represent all sikhs. Or quoting from the dubious history of baba jagir kaur and saying well shes the leader of the sgpc - she killed her daughter so all sikhs believe they can! Women can't do seva at harimandar sahib does this mean sikhi thinks they are lessers? I get what you two are saying but by quoting extremists you will get nowhere. On an academic side note to shaka - if one is to comparatively study religion one cannot simply look at one religious tradition. I'm sure shaka wasnt saying that shia islam is exactly the same as sikhi... but think about it if Pir Budhu Shaah believed in baby rape would Guru Gobind Singh have fought along side him against the Mughals and Pahari Rajas??? And Pir Bhikhan Shah who came to see Guru Gobind Singh in Patna - travelled on foot from Panjab (by car it takes a week!) - do u think he was a baby rapist as well? What about Saee Meeaa Meerwho Guru Arjan Sahib was friends with? do not enclose a whole religion in the thoughts of a few fundamentalists. - musulmaan mom dil hovai, antar kee mal dil te dhovai - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted June 24, 2005 Report Share Posted June 24, 2005 I believe in the religion of Love, whatever direction its caravans may take, for Love is my religion and my faith - Ibn 'Arabi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyboy Posted June 24, 2005 Report Share Posted June 24, 2005 From what I've read the Iranians are pissed off with Islam in general Shia and Sunni. Ironic thing is that they used to have so much love for Ali when he was one of the people who directed the Arab invasion of Persia thereby raping and pillaging a great civilisation. I've been told that Ali took Persian women as slaves. If there is a general apostasy from Islam in Iran I wonder what the Iranians will do to the tomb of Ali or Hussein? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
challenge_everything Posted June 24, 2005 Report Share Posted June 24, 2005 bobby boy - what would u say about the sia sants mentioned above that the gurus were friends with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyboy Posted June 24, 2005 Report Share Posted June 24, 2005 Where did you get the information that they were Shias? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh47 Posted June 24, 2005 Report Share Posted June 24, 2005 Wow Lalleshwari, you change colours even faster than a chameleon. So now you think Khomeini gives out child raping fatwas. But just last year you wrote the following: "I personaly think that Sant Jarnail Singh had a good knowledge of santhia even though I have myself seen people from the same sampradaya go beyond. There is no doubt about the fact that he kept his rahit etc.... For a long time I was myself fascinated by the character in the same way I am fascinated by Ayatollah Khomeini. Yet my reason tells me to be cautious. There are serious questions and issues involved here and one has to take that whole "rob" element out and think rationally! I would certainly not put him at the same level as Bin Laden (who is a butcher and nothing else) but nor would I put him at the same level as Khomeini (a mystical scholar supported by a huge part of the Iranian population)." http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...06&start=15 ----------------- As for your comments about Ayatolloh Sistani. Did you forget that your beloved Sayed Modarresi whom you have showered praise after praise on the following thread is a representative of Ayatollah Sistani. http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...asc&start=0 Instead of keeping your legs in two separate boats, maybe you should stick to one before you drown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyboy Posted June 24, 2005 Report Share Posted June 24, 2005 Instead of keeping your legs in two separate boats, maybe you should stick to one before you drown. There's an akhaan in the part of UP where I come from concerning Zabita Khan who was an Afghan of Rohilla clan who became a Sikh and then went back to Islam during the time of the Dal Khalsa invasion of the Ganga Doab in late 18th century. Guru Ka Ek Chela Aadha Sikh Aadha Rohilla Guru has one follower half Sikh and half Rohilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted June 25, 2005 Report Share Posted June 25, 2005 I believe in the religion of Love, whatever direction its caravans may take, for Love is my religion and my faith - Ibn 'Arabi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
challenge_everything Posted June 25, 2005 Report Share Posted June 25, 2005 hmmm - both sides have a point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyboy Posted June 25, 2005 Report Share Posted June 25, 2005 Got the Ali information from http://www.derafsh-kaviyani.com/english/ali666.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted June 25, 2005 Report Share Posted June 25, 2005 I would be a liar if I didn't say that you are justified in pointing out my previous opinions. By further studying since last year I have become aware of the deeply disturbing facts surrounding some Ithna'shari marjas. It's called evolution!!! Evolution is good.Respect Bahadur Singh.We all evolve.But most of us evolve really really slowly.Which is a shame.Oh well, nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted June 26, 2005 Report Share Posted June 26, 2005 I believe in the religion of Love, whatever direction its caravans may take, for Love is my religion and my faith - Ibn 'Arabi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh47 Posted June 26, 2005 Report Share Posted June 26, 2005 Imam Ali's battles were mainly fought in Iraq. Iraq was a part of ancient Persia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
challenge_everything Posted June 26, 2005 Report Share Posted June 26, 2005 it all boils down to thinking before speaking i believe or am i mistaken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted June 27, 2005 Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 I believe in the religion of Love, whatever direction its caravans may take, for Love is my religion and my faith - Ibn 'Arabi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted September 22, 2007 Report Share Posted September 22, 2007 Is this audio still available anywhere - I would really like to hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted September 22, 2007 Report Share Posted September 22, 2007 N3O should have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylitol Posted September 22, 2007 Report Share Posted September 22, 2007 why did you edit out all your replies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted September 22, 2007 Report Share Posted September 22, 2007 that was ages ago when I left the forum. Just wanted to delete everything I ever posted here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 22, 2007 Report Share Posted September 22, 2007 stay tuned , i ll upload the audio soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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