Spiritual progress and diet - personal experience

[Sukhraj]

There's been alot of debate about eating meat and Sikhi, so I thought I would throw in my 2 cents worth - but from personal experience rather than merely quote texts. It's not my place to judge, but how many Singhs today actually progress spiritually? Have you experienced the Atmik Ras that Gurbani speaks of, the progression of simran from the mouth to the throat, heart, etc? If not, something's wrong - it's like going to school and staying in the same class for years.

To cut a long story short, I have eaten meat in the past - from antelope to zebra. I'm not going to go into my life history, but straight to the point - a stage came where if I had eaten meat during the day, my mind wouldn't focus, would become 'ashant' and I could literally feel the 'paar', so, with guidance from a Mahapursh, I stopped. Today, if food is cooked in anger, I can feel it; unfortunately this has led to less take away pizzas.....although ardas before eating helps! Really spicy food has an effect similar to but not as bad as meat. There are other spiritual issues too - the 'Suleman tapes' make those clear.

Of course, giving up meat is not all that's needed for spiritual progress, but

from my personal experience it helps.

By the way, I powerlift as well and current PRs are: Bench - 450lbs (without a bench shirt), Squat - 703, D/Lift - 725. All natural and vegetarian.

[Guest Javanmard]

The opposite for me.

[Guest SAdmin]

Thanks for starting this topic. I think you're discussing spirituality in general and not restricting it to one particular religion. Let's discuss this topic as this is very interesting topic to discuss.

I was reading on this topic few weeks back and found few debates on this subject and they may add some significant additional information to this thread.

I believe that high level of spiritual stage cannot be achieved merely by leaving eating flesh of animals.

Source:http://www.katinkahesselink.net/health/vegan.html

He who gives up meat-eating but does not alter his nature and thoughts, thinking to gain in spirituality, may flatter himself and perhaps make a fetish of his denial, but will certainly thereby make no spiritual progress.

Watch this live debate on Meat and spirituality. I know that this is not a Sikhism related but core theme is same and that "guilt" feeling is tackled & debated. if anyone has patience to go through whole debate they will have great knowledge at the end. Please do not get into "my religion" is better than yours pitch but just watch it with broader aspects and try to learn key elements.

Zakir Naik - Is Non Vegetarian Food Permitted or Prohibited 1 of 2 (debate)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3...322&q=zakir

Part 2

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1...514655475&q

[Sukhraj]

Rather than just quote books that have been read etc, why not take a look at our own progress and experience? Sikhi is practical, to be lived not just studied. I believe 100% that everyone, with some Kirpa, can reach the avasthas that Gurbani and Mahapursh speak of.

[HeyDudesWassup]

I have noticed that I feel Physcially/Mentally/Spiritually better having meat in my diet. Of couse, moderation is key.

[Guest SAdmin]

I have seen people who eat meat and still they hold high stage of spirtuality. I believe that if you don't eat meat then it may or may not make you calm but still there is no evidence to support that being vegetarian makes you more spiritual.

[SAadmin]

but still there is no evidence to support that being vegetarian makes you more spiritual.

I agree being veg it helps in one's spirituality path but it does not make more spiritual than non veg person on spirituality route.

There is one thing to notice though- there are more sants who are veggie than the sants who are not veggie. Atleast, that's what i came across after reading many sant/mahapursha biographies.

[Guest Javanmard]

What do you make of the Mahapurush of Budha Dal?

[akaali]

By the way, I powerlift as well and current PRs are: Bench - 450lbs (without a bench shirt), Squat - 703, D/Lift - 725. All natural and vegetarian.

Shi'a , those are some preety impressive stats. If they are indeed correct and not 'internet stats', then that is extremely impressive. When you started working out were u vege or meateater? Also, i know these questions are mad irrevelant, but how much u weight?

Just wondering cause I started lifting a while ago, my stats are no where near as urs but for my weight they are decent.

About the meat stuff,

If you want to talk about Mahapursh's why forget Jathedar Baba Chet Singh Ji? A frequent jhatka eater, yet attained some serious progress (accroding to singhs around him).

I know singhs who were vege, then meat eater, then vege, they dont seem to notice any difference. I use to be vege, although I don't feel that different eating meat. If anything meat has helped me with my working out.

Cool topic, keep the posts coming. I like how u view it Sukhraj, go on experience, if u feeling better being vege, then go for it, init u get meh. But at least don't hate on the flesh eating singhs, cause it has been part of heritage, (ie. jhatka).

[Sukhraj]

Shi'a , those are some preety impressive stats. If they are indeed correct and not 'internet stats', then that is extremely impressive. When you started working out were u vege or meateater? Also, i know these questions are mad irrevelant, but how much u weight?

Just wondering cause I started lifting a while ago, my stats are no where near as urs but for my weight they are decent.

About the meat stuff,

If you want to talk about Mahapursh's why forget Jathedar Baba Chet Singh Ji? A frequent jhatka eater, yet attained some serious progress (accroding to singhs around him).

I know singhs who were vege, then meat eater, then vege, they dont seem to notice any difference. I use to be vege, although I don't feel that different eating meat. If anything meat has helped me with my working out.

Cool topic, keep the posts coming. I like how u view it Sukhraj, go on experience, if u feeling better being vege, then go for it, init u get meh. But at least don't hate on the flesh eating singhs, cause it has been part of heritage, (ie. jhatka).

Started lifting years ago, using the Westside system (www.westside-barbell.com), those numbers were at about 250lbs body weight and aren't really that impressive for the gym I was training in at the time! Bench was relatively weak due to body type. I had given up meat by then but supplemented with creatine and protein shakes. I also used herbal methods (Tribulus)to keep up test levels and flaxseed oil for the joints. Also ate like mad.

Back to the topic, I think it's important to check spiritual progress the same way u chart progress in the gym, school etc. So many people just stay at one level and think nothing of it.

[akaali]

There was actually this one mahapursh my friend knew. Use to eat meat no problem. They have told me some preety insane stories of this guy.

just adding that cause not many ppl think mahapurshay would eat meat.

[akaali]

The opposite for me.

Meat has helped you spirtually? Do explain

[drawrof]

I once had a friend whose cousin's dad's friend was a mahapurash but because he was gupt..no one knew...and then he knew a singh who was chardiankallah and spent time eating daal with all the buddha's and also did seva of a sant.....

Everyone examined his tutti and realised that they couldn't figure out what he ate, but somehow it was suprisingly shocking that he was uchi avastha because he actually loved god.

ps. I don't believe in tracking one's spiritual progress, unless it is a habit like waking up.....once the habit/pattern has been established lets do our bit, and leave god to bless us with the fruits....otherwise we'll be using spirituality as another notch in the belt.

[Sukhraj]

ultimately, "Jin Prem Kio, Thin Hi Prabh Paiyo" .....but it's that prem, the longing to meet Maharaj that drives us to follow Maharaj's directions.

[unbreakable]

..

[Xylitol]

from stevepavlina.com

1) In the Summer of 1993, I wanted to try being vegetarian. I had no interest in making this a lifelong change, but I’d read a lot about the health benefits of vegetarianism, so I committed to it for 30 days just for the experience. I was already exercising regularly, seemed in decent health, and was not overweight (6?0?, 155 lbs), but my typical college diet included a lot of In-N-Out burgers. Going lacto-ovo vegetarian for 30 days was a lot easier than I expected — I can’t say it was hard at all, and I never felt deprived. Within a week I noticed an increase in my energy and concentration, and I felt more clear-headed. At the end of the 30 days, it was a no-brainer to stick with it. This change looked a lot harder than it really was.

2) In January 1997, I decided to try going from vegetarian to vegan. While lacto-ovo vegetarians can eat eggs and dairy, vegans don’t eat anything that comes from an animal. I was developing an interest in going vegan for life, but I didn’t think I could do it. How could I give up veggie-cheese omelettes? The diet seemed too restrictive to me — even fanatically so. But I was intensely curious to know what it was actually like. So once again I did a 30-day trial. At the time I figured I’d make it through the trial, but I honestly didn’t expect to continue beyond that. Well, I lost seven pounds in the first week, mostly from going to the bathroom as all the accumulated dairy mucus was cleansed from my bowels (now I know why cows need four stomachs to properly digest this stuff). I felt lousy the first couple days but then my energy surged. I also felt more clear-headed than ever, as if a “fog of brain” had been lifted; it felt like my brain had gotten a CPU and a RAM upgrade. However, the biggest change I noticed was in my endurance. I was living in Marina del Rey at the time and used to run along the beach near the Santa Monica Pier, and I noticed I wasn’t as tired after my usual 3-mile runs, so I started increasing them to 5 miles, 10 miles, and then eventually a marathon a few years later. In Tae Kwon Do, the extra endurance really gave a boost to my sparring skills as well. The accumulated benefits were so great that the foods I was giving up just didn’t seem so appealing anymore. So once again it was a no-brainer to continue after the first 30 days, and I’m still vegan today. What I didn’t expect was that after so long on this diet, the old animal product foods I used to eat just don’t seem like food anymore, so there’s no feeling of deprivation.

these weren't spiritual benefits... but still are good reasons. As for me, I felt lighter after switching to vegetarianism. My body didn't feel as weighted down.

[Sukhraj]

How does one measure one's spiritual progress?

How can I say that Bill Gates is a very spiritual man, because he does or doesn't eat meat?

Do I develop a Spiritual indicator on my forehead which is only visible to other spiritual people?

Please answer, what does Gurbani say about this and of course general answers.

Sukhmani Sahib Ji explains what Simran leads to, Lavan da paat also lays out different stages / avastha , Guru ji gives us these and many more examples of tangible progress - just ask Him. Sant Isher Singh Ji (Rarasahib) were explaining the stages of simran to the sangat once and someone recorded it - it was posted on this site as 'Atmik Bachan' a while back, I think by Neo, but could be wrong.

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

Was Baba Fareed a vegitrain food eater?And what about Sdhana ,the butcher?

Anyway for Nam Adhyas it is better to avoid food with high nutitrional values,It may be all Veg Greasy stuff and Dry Fruits,too much of sweet and last but not the least most non veg items idealy.