Guest Posted June 13, 2003 Report Share Posted June 13, 2003 I like to challenge any of you here who loves to claim sikh women equality..This is a serious issue and should be presented infront of akal takth and should be more publicised. We all know our gurus praised women and promised woman equality in the scriptures which is a fact!!!!!!!!!! There are male saints in sikh-history as well female saints. They both acheive salvation regardless of their sexes but how come male saints are visible and female invisible. As a singh you can go to any male dharamsala and get your vidiya from there where you have male ustads to teach you. Unfortunately, there is a lack of comfort when female goes to male ustads to learn from both sides. What i want to know is it possible in future where there are also female takshal where sikh women can get vidiya equally as men. Female dharamsala thats what we lack right now throughout the history but that wasnt in guroo's time. Gangka Papan is one of favourite examples in guru granth sahib proves equality when it comes female being as bhramgyan/saints/mahapurshan. She was a porsititue which turned into bhramgyanan when she self-realized. My arguments are: Why dont women raise their voice? . IF we claim gender equality then why there is a gap here?? you get all the male saints because there are male dharamasala with male ustads there to teach you... But where are female dharamsala's???? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StylingSinghanee Posted June 13, 2003 Report Share Posted June 13, 2003 I think that this is an excellent post.. However the reality is..It is very difficult for females to learn certain vidiyas cause there are no females teaching it, and the men are not willing to allow women to learn..Take for example the taaksal..In which only men can learn..Womens resources are a bit more limited..But they do still exist..Ladies I think we gotta get up and start making changes so we can learn and teach our kids..And actually create the equality in Sikhism! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogroup singh Posted June 13, 2003 Report Share Posted June 13, 2003 Wahe Guru Ji Ka Khalsa, Wahe Guru Ji ki Fateh, Gur Piayre N30 S!ingh ji, Could you post the full shabad with english translation about "ganka Papan"? Gangka Papan is one of favourite examples in guru granth sahib proves equality when it comes female being as bhramgyan/saints/mahapurshan. Once you post that full shabad then I'll take part in this discussion. take care 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 13, 2003 Report Share Posted June 13, 2003 nogroup singh, As you know I listen to baba ishar singh ji tapes. There is full dedicated tape to her. Thats how i know. Now i dont know where exactly is her name mentioned in sggs?? But there surely is.. Give me some time to find the verse about her in sggs. In the meantime, happy debating for the sake of puran bhramgyani "Sant baba ishar singh ji " 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogroup singh Posted June 13, 2003 Report Share Posted June 13, 2003 As you know I listen to baba ishar singh ji tapes. There is full dedicated tape to her. No problem and I know that you came to know about her from tape itself. i dont know where exactly is her name mentioned in sggs?? But there surely is.. Give me some time to find the verse about her in sggs. No problem brother take your time and post it once you get it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 13, 2003 Report Share Posted June 13, 2003 Yikes, I found it here.. jih simuruth gunukaa see oudhhuree thaa ko jus our dhhaaro ||1|| rehaao || Meditating on Him in remembrance, Ganika the prostitute was saved; enshrine His Praises within your heart. ||1||Pause|| Guru Tegh Bahaadur Ji Raag Sorath 632 gunukaa paapun hoeikai paapaa(n) dhaa gul haar purothaa|| Gankaa was a sinful prostitute who wore the necklace of misdeeds around her neck. Bhai Gurdaas Ji Vaars Bhai Gurdaas 10 Here you go, Please we want more feedback from sikhwomen what they think about this specific topic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogroup singh Posted June 13, 2003 Report Share Posted June 13, 2003 Yikes, I found it here.. jih simuruth gunukaa see oudhhuree thaa ko jus our dhhaaro ||1|| rehaao || Meditating on Him in remembrance, Ganika the prostitute was saved; enshrine His Praises within your heart. ||1||Pause|| Veer ji, If you have posted the full shabad then I don't see Guru ji is talking about woman equality? It's clear that whoever meditates for that "One God" he will be saved but there is no mention of gender equality or woman being saint? May be! few lines are missing? If not, then Guru ji is giving the clear message that if you truely meditate for "GOD" then no matter how dirty your job is still you get the salvation. I may be wrong as im just a learner/lay man but that's what Gurbani's message through those lines. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 13, 2003 Report Share Posted June 13, 2003 I thought you talkin about ganka papan . If you referred to women equality there are enough verses in sggs that claims women equality.. here are the some of them- In praise of women. "We are born of woman, we are conceived in the womb of woman, we are engaged and married to woman. We make friendship with woman and the lineage continued because of woman. When one woman dies, we take another one, we are bound with the world through woman. Why should we talk ill of her, who gives birth to kings? The woman is born from woman; there is none without her. Only the One True Lord is without woman" (Guru Nanak Dev, Var Asa, pg. 473) Women have an equal right to participate in the congregation. "Come my sisters and dear comrades! Clasp me in thine embrace. Meeting together, let us tell the tales of our Omnipotent Spouse (God). In the True Lord are all merits, in us all demerits." (Guru Nanak Dev, Sri Rag, pg. 17) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GABROO KHALISTAN DAH Posted June 13, 2003 Report Share Posted June 13, 2003 dam dami taksaal does'nt allow kaurs to learn there??? whaaaaaaaaaaaaattttttttt???????? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 13, 2003 Report Share Posted June 13, 2003 dam dami taksaal does'nt allow kaurs to learn there??? whaaaaaaaaaaaaattttttttt???????? In damdami takshal you dont have female saints teaching other females but you have male saints teaching unisex.. which for some sikh women and male saints himself is un-comfortable!!!!!!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishpinder.K.Jagpal Posted June 14, 2003 Report Share Posted June 14, 2003 hhmmm.... this is an interesting question, "IF we claim gender equality then why there is a gap here??" think one of the reasons may be women are seen to be the child / home bearers hence not giving them much of an oppurtunity to speak out as much, men may be seen to be have more time on thier hands than women, but this does not mean that men and women dont have equality in sikhi http://www.sikhi.org.uk/articles/files/SikhWomensRights.pdf there are a couple of good articles there which may be relevant to this question. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa Waheguru Jee Kee Fateh Dear All The problem is very serious, and no one seems to be taking seriously. The people in charge are mostly men, and the women are just going along with the flow as it were. Forget the issue of female saints, it is not even allowed for women to be able to do Keertan sewa at Darbar Sahib, I have been blessed with whatever talent Guru Ji has given me, and been singing for 14 years, and it makes me so sad to see that the rights our Guru's fought for with regards to women's equality, are being ignored in Sikhism today. Why can't women do keertan at Darbar Sahib? If they are Amritdhari, follow the rehit, what good reason is there to refuse them? It amazes me that this is an issue at all. :shock: I recently went to Manikaran Sahib, and there is a Mandir alongside the Gurudwara Sahib, I saw Sikh women coming in to the Gurudwara after going to the temple with tilaks on their heads, some of my relatives were amongst them. It is shocking, how do the children percieve our religion when we are confused ourselves? Everyone I speak to says, it cannot be changed, these people will never change and so on and so forth. I have been approached by some Muslims at uni, and I was telling them, Im not interested because Sikhi gives so much respect and equality for women in comparison to other religions, and all this time knowing that keertan is not allowed to be performed by women in our main holy asthaan! :roll: How are we different from them? Immediate action needs to take place, I would love to know if anyone knows of people actively opposing this or any other cause related to Sikh women and discrimmination, I don't know many Gursikhs around where I live, so I would appreciate any info. Bhul Chuk Dee Khima Gurpreet Kaur Gurfateh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 I have been approached by some Muslims at uni, and I was telling them, Im not interested because Sikhi gives so much respect and equality for women in comparison to other religions, and all this time knowing that keertan is not allowed to be performed by women in our main holy asthaan! :roll: i very much agree with gurpreet kaur, sikhi is meant to give equality to poeple from all walks of life - all genders - everyone...... but then in the shri harmandir sahib, one of our most holiest shrines we do not even apply this main pillar of sikhi. :roll: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GABROO KHALISTAN DAH Posted July 3, 2003 Report Share Posted July 3, 2003 so there are taksaali females, but no sant ji bibiyan tha's still not fair, if a woman has gian, why can't she be a giani? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dassan das Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 WAHEGURU 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideal Singh Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 Is there any woman presently actively participating in Sikh affairs... or in SGPC or in any of the Taksaals... except for bibi Jagir Kaur... :roll: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 Dr. Inderjit Kaur Sole Woman Appointed to RAB for Akal Takht http://www.sikhnet.com/s/RAB 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest inderjit Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 as far as i know, no women stay at taksal mehta, that is for obvious reasons and is true for i believe most if not all of the dehre for the old institutions. this isnt a sexist thing, just that can u imagine the chaos that would be caused if allegations started about people messing around at these places. i have heard of one place which let bibian stay there, but then within literally weeks they had to reverse the rule as people started throwing dirt around unnecesarily. from some singhs i have heard that they go to taksal to learn their santia and katha, and then when they get home they will then teach it to their mothers, sisters, daughters, partners etc. also the santia class which we attend has majority females learning, so there is no discrimination in that respect. the singhs from mehta who are married usually stay at home with their families and not at the actual dera itself. most i think will learn, and then set out to do parchar and then eventually settle somewhere with their families and do parchar from that place. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lil_princess Posted November 5, 2003 Report Share Posted November 5, 2003 hey everyone, ssa! i totally agree that many people say that our religion promotes equality of women but it does not however PRACTICE it! which is frustrating! i mean how many female gianis do u see?? I agree with previous posts that maybe because women have been supressed into these "traditional" roles of the mother and the care taker they can't. Which is kind of the sad truth. And all the people who feel annouyed and do try to stick up for it, need some sort of beginning or guide inorder for them to start. Again i stress that equality for women and the act of doing it is been said and done, its the fact that its not PRACTICE that makes people frustrated and curious at the same time. ANd when i see all these SIKH WOMEN groups or WOMEN for something or another, even if non religious it makes me SO mad because why does there need to be the word WOMEN in it, why can't it be just plain SIKH GROUP.. u know? Its like NBA (national basketball assosiation) which is just FOR MEN but then there is the WNBA (which is women national basketball assoc) Why does there even have to be that? well i think its mainly the cultural issue thats to blame, not the religious, because religiously we have accepted it, cutlurally we haven't, and even if many people say they are really different they still go hand in hand.. lil offtopic but culutrally u never see a women in the bhangra seen, and so therefore you don't see that much in the religious seen as well... i dunno this sounds like a jibber jab! but owe well, the fact is if you keep on trying to promote women equality and not practice it its not really equality, u need to practice it, so i encourage all females to do what they want and fight for it, and for men to AGREE with it! enough respect!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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