Unfair use of quotes

[antinang]

as far as i know the sevadars of sarbloh.info are on this site.

I would just like to say, that bhai sahib bhai randhir singh ji's autobiography has been unfairly quoted, to present him in a bad light. Because they quoted it exactly, they are able to say everything there is fact, however if u quote only part of a section, then it obviously presents the case unfairly.this is what is on the site:

"One has to appreciate that Randhir Singh, although seen by many as being a sincere Sikh in many ways, may have been duped very easily such as in the case of the ‘Raagmala’. For example, whilst in prison, he was convinced by one Hira Singh into accepting the dark arts of alchemy. Randhir Singh himself writes:

‘He [Hira Singh] gave me the secret of making gold out of copper---.’

‘Autobiography of Bhai Randhir Singh’, translated by Trilochan Singh Pa.149"

So, in this way, they present bhai sahib as a practicioner of , as they put it "dark arts", however they fail to mention that the very next day, before he had even used the formula himself, he realised how wrong this was, and threw the piece of paper on which the formula was written, straight into the fire.

I would like to make a request that they please edit the page to give all readers the full facts, before deciding whether bhai sahib "accpeted" these dark arts.

Thank you for your time

[antinang]

Sorry, just remembered another objectional para on that site

"It is the Chatka-eating, Sukha-drinking Akali Nihangs that the present day Akhand Kirtanis in particular find extremely offensive. All A.K.J. insist, contrary to ALL historical evidence that, true Akali Nihangs of past never consumed Sukha or Chatka. Yet strangely enough, Randhir Singh’s early association with Akali Nihangs, and later close friendship with the Sikh holy man, Akali Nihang Kaur Singh of Kashmir, seems to have been ignored by the A.K.J."

The site fails to mention that although having friendship with Akali ji, he was not happy with his jhata eating, so much so he even wrote an article in objection. the very article can be read here http://www.tapoban.org/akalikaur.htm

[happy]

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[happy]

hey anyway why dont you contact the people who you feel need to be contacted instead of crying in the public

[gsingh00]

neo, whenever anyone says that this forum bashes a specific group, you always write, gimme an example of where a group was bashed.

Althought I am not AKJ, it is obvious that Akj is being "bashed" by happys first post here..

If I was ever to write bhai daya singh samparda is full of crap (which i would never say), my post would get edited for sure.

[drawrof]

fair post gurpreet singh

[happy]

yes boy but AKJs are not the bhai daya singh samprada are they and secondly im not bashing the AKJ just their fanatisism and irrationality oh and lets not forget the kirtan...for all the AKJ posses in the house..kirtan is supposed to be done within raag as guru has transcribed the whole of gurubani in raag.....not some hip hip, drum and base, hindi/chamkila rhythm remix....

:D :D so much for bashing hey !!!!!!! :D

NOTE: Happy, perhaps you can consider re-evaluating your stance on the issues you continually raise with no references and UK ghetto politics whilst simultaneously demanding academic proofs from others when your closely held notions are even remotely challenged.

There are plenty of discussions available with regard to the AKJ on this website (see 101 dicussion) and their own - this thread is explicitly about the quality of references to Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Grewal under the Sarbloh affliated websites, similarl issues have also be raised by other scholars and commentators from and about non-AKJ items (see www.amritworld.com) on those websites, perhaps the long awaited updates will address these items, in the meantime the original poster (Anti-admin cut) has been requested to address his queries to the appropriate sources, if a discussion is desired on references, please begin a new thread - there is no need to hijack every thread with jatha, sampradha, organisation or group bashing.

Finally, perhaps you could also consider the three criticisms you have aired against the AKJ for yourself as well - i.e. when was the last time you saw a Nihang doing raag kirtan, with exception of the much touted Bhia Balbir Singh (since even groups like the AKJ and others have their fair share of 'raag' keertanias), Mahakaal Baba Vajeer Singh's kirtan not too different from that of AKJ or most Ragi Jathas, neither is that of many UK Nihangs as witnessed at recent Youth Darbar recordings online or that of the Tarnadal Nihangs (see www.ektaone.com) - the point here is that it is very easy to throw stones at each other, however how about sweeping under your own bed once in a while.

[gsingh00]

note**

if you read my post before and didnt understand anything I wrote, re-read it, cuz I fixed the gramatical errors, and it now makes sense.

Also, Happy, even though I don;t agree with many of the beliefs AKJ people hold, I see this as no reason to try to throw an insult at them whenever the oppurtunity presents itself. Sikhs are so eagar to protect people of other religions whenever another Sikh says anything negative about another religion, and some even go to lengths to make sure nothing negative is said about groups such as naamdharis and radhaswamis who directly attack our religion. I'm not saying these people are bad or wrong, as it is a good quality to stand up for other peoples dharams. However, are the beliefs of AKJ not worthy of being defended? If you can defend people such as naamdharis and call them "gurmukhs" (as i have seen on this forum), then can you not atleast see some positive in AKJ people? If nothing else, atleast AKJ people dont look at guru sahibs bani as just a book (well, atleast they respect 1429 angs of bani), and to even suggest that AKJ twists the history of Sikhs even close to the amount that it is twisted by naamdharis would be a joke.

My point here is not that we should hate people of other dharams, in fact it is quite the opposite, and we should not only respect other religions but also respect people that are members of your own religion..

PS: once again I did not proof read my post, so if it made no sense, my bad

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[Guest]

sorry guys, i just came back from short-trip vacation with my wife, i just saw all this. in my absence, i appolize for any delays in actions but it seems like my fellow sevadars have done good job editing lot of gand.