A time for Khalistanis to speak up?

[tSingh]

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=28455

I cannot see one difference between the random blasts on buses and Jalandhar bus stand back when (somewhere I travel through quite often) and the 7/7 blasts in London;

1) Can the Khalistanis on this forum explain to me how this is different from the actions of al-qaeda in the UK?

2) If we recognise that the glorification of the killing of random innocent Sikhs and Hindus is not only totally against anything remotely related to any belief system...but actually pretty sick, can you identify ONE voice in the Khalistani community in the diaspora who actively criticises such actions?

3) Even if people cop out and take recourse to 'its all GOI', surely we can agree that some Sikh youth do not see it that way?

4) I recall seeing another sikh youth on the same forum back after 9/11 stating how khalistanis could learn something from twin towers, how effective it was without for a second commenting on the ethics of it. Whose responsibility is it to stop this increasing trend of glamourising the murder of innocent people?

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THE REAL PREACHERS OF TRUTH AND JUSTICE

BKI: Sant ,Bramghani ,Mahapursh Wadhawa Singh je Babbar, Chief of Babbar Khalsa continues to operate from Pakistan. A large number of youth associated with Babbar Khalsa and its religious wing Akhand Kirtani Jatha have under gone training from time to time in Pakistan, with the objective of using them as reserve force at appropriate time. The BKI been most active in executing terrorist strikes in Punjab over the past decade.

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Khalistan Commando Force (KCF)- Panjwar:- Headed by Sant ,Bramghani ,Mahapursh Paramjit Singh JE Panjwar who has been camping in Pakistan for over 13 years. This group currently has limited striking potential. Nevertheless its alliance with ISYF, Sikh Youth of America and Sikh Youth of Belgium makes it a numerically large group, adding to its influence. KCF-Panjwar has a number of sympathisers in U.K., Germany, Belgium, USA and Canada. About 100 youth in small batches belonging to these countries have undergone training in the handling of weapons and explosives from time to time. Panjwar’s links with smugglers and Islamist terrorist groups are old and well-known. Panjwar has failed to muster dependable support within India.

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ISYF-Rode: Sant ,Bramghani ,Mahapursh Lakhbir Singh JE Rode, the nephew of Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, is the coordinator of this group, and has links with Islamist terrorist groups such as the Lashkar-e-Toiba. Rode played a major role in shaping the Khalistan-Kashmir International, a joint platform for strikes by Sikh and Islamist extremist in the aftermath of the setback received by terrorists on the K2M (Khalistan-Kashmir-Muslim militancy) front, which was the pioneer platform for joint strikes by Punjab militants, J&K militants and Islamist terrorist elements in the early 1990s. ISYF under Lakhbir Singh Rode has its branches spread over a dozen countries in western Europe and Canada.

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Khalistan Zindabad Force (KZF): Sant ,Bramghani ,Mahapursh Ranjit Singh Neeta JE , hailing from Poonch area in Jammu & Kashmir (J&K), is the head of this outfit, which had an operational alliance with ISYF & BKI in the past, is now operating independently. Neeta’s associates were responsible for a series of explosions in running trains and buses in Punjab, Delhi, Haryana & J&K. Neeta emerged as a leading terrorist not only in the context of Punjab militancy but developed operational alliances with splinter groups of J&K militants. Neeta is presently very active and transferred a number of consignments of explosives, small weapons, ammunition and fake currency to his associates in Punjab over the years. With an estimated dozen-odd active associates in Punjab, he retains some striking potential, and has executed a number of strikes in the State, including the Jalandhar bus terminus blasts in April 2006 and the Goraya railway track explosions near Goraya in January 2004.

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Dal Khalsa International: Headed by Sant ,Bramghani ,Mahapursh Gajinder Singh JE ‘Hijacker’, tried to float a joint group with J&K militants, indications of which surfaced in 1997-98. This group is one of the most active, with substantial funding available through Khalistani elements abroad. Kanwarpal Singh Bittu remains Dal Khalsa’s principal point man in Punjab with excellent contacts with disruptive and subversive elements in the State and beyond.

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The Council of Khalistan, represented by Sant ,Bramghani ,Mahapursh Balbir Singh JE Sandhu, has probably the longest stay in Pakistan.

[Guest]

what you expect from the fanatics with terrorist intent, they should be jailed-put off from their misery.

[chatanga]

tsingh whats wiv the sant brahmgiani mahapursh in front of thier names? is this your own work or did you recieve the article this way?

as for your or the articles criticism of non condemnation of acts comiitted in the name of Khalistan , I as a supporter of Khalistan condemn the murder and loss of evry innocent person in the last 20 yeras, from the thousands of sikh men who were killed by the ravan sena to the innocent hindus and policemen killed bythe Khalistanis. Does this suffice for you?

chatanga

[chatanga]

neo , do you think that jus cos someone has written that these people did these acts they MUST have done them? who has written these things about these people? their enemies. so dont beleive allyou read about these people. only those with something to hide would write drivel like this and as an administrator or whatever you are, i would have thougt that you wouldnt jump to conclusions so quick.

what gets me is that these mofo's talk about sikhs terrorsit doing this and that. what compelled them to do such things? the dusht hakoomat of indrasur and successive ravan govts. of india. do you think that Gajinder Singh suddenly woke up one day and the idea of hijacking a plane came into his mind?

you want fanatics to be jailed and put out of their misery , and so do i . but the real fanatics that deserved to be locked up are the ravan sena and their jholi-chaks who created the conditions that resulted in 25 years of bloodshed.

[guv]

tsingh whats wiv the sant brahmgiani mahapursh in front of thier names? is this your own work or did you recieve the article this way?

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showtopic=28455

[tSingh]

Chatanga, as guv pointed out, this was not a post by their 'enemies'. This was a post by their feverent supporters! They have elevated them to the status of 'brahmgyanis', someone Guru Arjun Dev describes as being God itself, the creator of creation.

Now, you yourself honorably so, have stated that such individuals should be condemned for every innocent life taken, and since I can see yr an honest bloke I respect that...

But then something predictable happens in yr second post, a recourse to the 'they (Indian gov) started it, they're worse than us' type statement WHICH ALWAYS without fail is used as a way of somehow deflecting this need for public criticism of elements within the Khalistani camp. It simply justifies the views of certain extremists...and it is always motivated by this fear that if you make any public concession that bad stuff has happened, that this will lead to a loss of public support.

I am 100% behind the pursuit of justice for the innocents who died and were tortured in punjab, and who contniue to die and are tortured throughout india. I'm 100% behind the stand of Amnesty international.

I am also 100% against any individual who takes an individual life in a random attack whether they believe in a pan-islamic world, imposed liberal capitalist democracy, that the world should be run by klingons, that there should be a purely hindu nation, or the need for a Khalistani state...its one and the same thing...the biggest most singular paap that can be committed, to deny an innocent of God-given experience and to cause the greatest amount of pain and hardship on others around them....

This arises when the weighting of an ideology and its implications is greater than that of the taking of innocent lives...and that rationalisation is what I am reading in that original post. You see it in this stuff here, you see it in young hindus trying to justify godhra riots, you see it in facists justifying the actions of the BNP, you see it in maoists justifying their actions. Its all the same.

There IS and will never be any parrallel to the times of the Gurus in such actions UNLESS there were a pitched battle between 1000 kharkoo and 1000 police officiers/army vale in a field near Tarn Taran. These actions described in that post are random and designed to cause terror.

So going back to my original questions, it has to be d) that the Khalistani community are directly responsible for not giving an ethical line other than a cynical 'this will make us look bad to others if we say this' type statement to kids who are clearly getting off on murder and random violence.

[drawrof]

I have met a fervent khalistani supporter in the last few months who felt it was 'absolutely justified' to sell drugs to fund the khalistani campaign....That disgusted me, but what sickened me through and through is that he said 'singhs can sell drugs so long as it doesn't get to 'our' kids'.....I lost it right there and then. I said 'where did guru nanak differentiate and FAVOR people based on their ethnic or religious identity?...this duality and fight between good and evil being the 'nature' of creation seems to stem back to the classical ormazud vs. ahriman from zoroastrianism...but I don't want to give my khalistani buddy that much credit, he is too pompous and arrogant as a human to even fathom that!

I think I've said this before...but why is it that sikhs want khalistan but have done next to nothing to help the delhi sikhs who suffered the lashbacks of the attack on Indira gandhi?...I hate to say but someone needs to....was it because they weren't punjabi? or was it simply because they were considered 'neemi jaath' (low caste) as the figures indicate that the majority were labannay (and for anyone who wants to spin this off into a caste debate, don't waste your time...The fact that you are reacting has indicated that my point has hit home!)

[chatanga]

But then something predictable happens in yr second post, a recourse to the 'they (Indian gov) started it, they're worse than us' type statement WHICH ALWAYS without fail is used as a way of somehow deflecting this need for public criticism of elements within the Khalistani camp. It simply justifies the views of certain extremists...and it is always motivated by this fear that if you make any public concession that bad stuff has happened, that this will lead to a loss of public support....

as tsingh says.

my point is that they planted the seed of discontent. Sant Jarnail Singh said this in one of his speeches that " the congress party have planted such a seed that if in time to come if there is any green(flower ie peace) you can tell me" ...

that is what im talking about. the sikh militants actions were REactions. they simply reacted in a way which at the time they thought was best, which after 20 odd years we have realised was not the best way to react.

However this is human nature and even myself as in individual i have done and said things which after some years/months/minutes i think to my self i cnat beleive i actually thought like that once.

[drawrof]

No worries chatanga,

I know you love me and you have that 'pyaar' in your heart...stop being so difficult and come on...give me a hug!!!

[tSingh]

No I agree with you Chatanga, and no matter what I think of their views or the actions of later kharkoo, a fair number of the 'kharkoo' (at least from most of the interviews you read) were indirect relatives reacting against people they knew getting murdered or tortured, and some of the earlier groups had a clear differentiation between targets (government related and civilian). Like anything these things are immensely complicated. Either being totally in favour of everything that happened or totally against is to my mind a bit of an oversimplifcation...each incident spoke for itself.