Guest Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 Please help I was just wondering if some one could shed some light on this. I would like to know more direct link of Sant Attar Singh Maustaneywale with Nirmale samparda. I have read it in the past in the article they took vidya from nirmal akhara. I would like to know more specific and direct details regarding this. so far according to baba jagjit singh ji harkhowale. Sant Attar Singh Ji Maustaneywale gyan gurdev were also sant karam singh ji maharaj hoti mardan wale. can someone can shed some light on this too? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 The Bhai Daya Singh Samparda is part of the nirmala Samparda. Baba Karam SIngh Ji themselves were nirmalae. Even today the lineage from Sant Karam Singh Ji's Upsampardas consider themselves to be Nirmalae 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 It's basic question but I do not know, so could someone please let me know: 1. Who is Nirmale? What does one needs to be Nirmale? I was under the impression that Bhai Dya Singh samparda is called Nirmale. 2. Same question for Upsampardas and other Sampardas? das 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 24, 2008 Report Share Posted November 24, 2008 das, please search the forum with keywords - "nirmale" "upsamparda" you will find your answers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 Does anyone know where the headquaters of Sampradah of Baba Karam Singh Hotimardan Jee is located? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 Maksoudpur. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted November 25, 2008 Report Share Posted November 25, 2008 If you look at the definition of Nirmale that Kamalroop gives in another thread, then either Bhai Daya Singh samparda are not Nirmale or he's wrong.......or not all Nirmalae are the same. Their maryada and beliefs are virtually identical to the Taksal, if that helps. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSingh Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 Sant Attar Singh Ji was first and foremost a puran brahamgyani. Needless to say, no bhekh or samprdaya can give you brahamgyan! So to place too much emphasis on his lineage is, in my humble opinion, to miss the point. So that being said, this is what I know of his jeevan and its links with the Nirmalay. To begin with I have found no reference to Sant ji studying with Sant Karam Singh Hotimardan. What you do find is that Sant Ji's mindset and actions are entirely in accordance with the nirmala traditions, although perhaps more so in the mould of Sant Karam Singh Ji. Sant ji initially learnt gurmukhi and paath from Sant Buta Singh in the local dera. Then it was through Sant Gyani Jodh Singh Ji, a nirmala from the naurangabad upsamrdaya, who was a granthi in the army, visited the local gurdwara, and become the inspiration for Sant ji to take amrit. Sant Jodh Singh ji was the shish of Sant Ram Singh Virakat, the shish of Bhai Maharaj Singh Ji. Sant Jodh Singh was one of the panj pyaray from whom Sant ji took amrit. Sant ji spent some time in Sant Jodh Singh ji's seva before becoming thoroughly virakat to perform tapasya. Sant Ji went to Hazur Sahib during which time he befriended Svami Bhagat Singh Nirmala. Together they went on a tirath yatra taking in Omkareshvar, Ujjain, Ajmer, Vrindavan, Mathura, Haridvar and Rishikesh. While in Rishikesh Sant ji would rise at 2am and take ganga ishnan, have his food with ganga jal, etc. Sant ji then went on yatra to joshimath, hemkunt sahib, gangotri, badrinath, etc. Sant ji met with a number of very important Nirmalay including Pandit Nihal Singh Thoha Khalsa. Sant ji attended the ardh kumbh mela in hardvar twice in his lifetime. The first time, Sant ji met with Pandit Ishar Singh Ji Dhodharvale and stayed in his ashram in Haridvar. Sant Ji also took part in a katha smagam in Haridvar put on by Nirmal Panchayti Akhara. Sant Ji was also very close to Sant Sahib Das Ji Udasi whose dera is still in Sangrur. Sant Ji heard the katha of Yog Vasistha from Sant Sahib Das. Sant ji's teachings are also advaita. One saakhi recounts that a nirmala sadhu asked Sant Attar Singh Ji about bhagti and Sant ji explained that there are three levels; kanishta (meaning lowest) in which it is felt that there is jiva and a colossal number of other jivas, then madham (middling) in which one recognises jiva and colossal Braham, and uttam (highest) in which there is only Braham, pervading both yourself and the colossal world around you. Even after attending the Panch Khalsa Divan of Teja Singh, the next event in his biography was attending the ardh kumbh, implying no ideological affinity with Teja Singh beyond prachar. Sant Ji also met with and stayed with; Sant Bishan Singh Muralewale, Sant Chanda Singh of Damdama Sahib, Mahant Gulab Singh ji of muktsar (Sant ji attended the opening ceremony of Mahant Gulab Singh's bunga), Mahant Mastaan Singh Nirmala, Sant Ram Singh Thamali, among many others. Obviously Sant Ji met with many other great personalities during his life, but the Sants that he chose to spend time with were nearly always nirmalas. Nowhere does it mention that Sant ji set aside time to study with a particular Nirmala, however, his example is typical of the more tyagi Nirmalay of the 19th century. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 Thanks for clarifying TSingh Ji, is there any particualr book you would recommend on Sant Ji's jeevan? I like the explantation re the 3 levels of bhagti. Sant Ji was recruited into platoon 36, which was posted in Noshehra. Sant Ji is said to have visited Baba Karam Singh Ji along with his unit regularly whilst serving here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 tsingh thanks a lot for your informative post, thats exactly i was looking for .. anand mangal 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSingh Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 The two books on this that are very detailed are Gyani Balvant Singh Kothaguru's Agam Agadh Bodh biography and Sant Teja Singh's biography. Furthermore, Gyani Balvant Singh's nirmal panth bodh has mastuane vale as a nirmala upsamprdaya. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 Thank you. Where can I purchase these? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSingh Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 not in the uk! india if yr lucky. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 Ahh, what service.. I see the haystack, I hold the magnifying glass, I am deterred not... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted November 28, 2008 Report Share Posted November 28, 2008 TSingh, as always, your posts are so informative. I always learn something new from reading your posts. Thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 I have nothing but complete awe struck admiration and respect for brahmgyani sant baba attar singh ji, however after reading something for the first time I would like to ask an honest, innocent question, really that what exactly was the reason behind baba ji visiting all these teeraths and kumb mela? I genuinely am interested to know, and am in no way questioning baba ji or trying to make sense of sant's actions. thank you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Could be a number of reasons such as, maybe he wanted to widen his knowledge instead of keeping a narrow minded view of things or he went to do prachar all over India. Even the Gurus went to Kumbh Mela and other ancient shrines to do Prachar. Nothing wrong with Kumbh Mela or visiting ancient shrines. In fact, since the Guru's themselves did it, it would make such an act as "Gurmat". Plus alot of Nirmala Deras are located in the area, so Sant Jee probably also went there to learn. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 Silence have you read the SRi Sooraj Prakash Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji spent i think either 9 or 15 days at the Kumbh and took part in the bathing. Does that mean you may begin to doubt their jeevan. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted November 29, 2008 Report Share Posted November 29, 2008 kamji: Dasam Pita mentions that Guru Tegh Bahadur went to the east to do acts of charity and good deeds, he mentions nothing about participating in kumb mela and tirath etc. as far as i recall Kavi Santokh Singh wrote down what he had heard from people, so everything in this major granth should not be taken as gospel truth. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkamal Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 TSINGH Ji, I was wondering if you done a yatra to Omkareshvar mandir near Hazur Sahib. I heard thats where Guru Nanak Dev Ji recited 'Dakhni Oankaar'..I heard Nirmala mahant are taking care of teh gurduwara there and do parkash of both the dasam and aad darbars...Is this true and any other info would be appreciated! harkamal 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 A lot of Singhs used to go to Khumb melas and teeraths to do parchaar, also to counter anti-Sikh propaganda. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tSingh Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 Matheen, that last bit is completely false! The paranoia that traditional hindus are spreading misinformation about Sikhi is at best a view that is 20 years old, and one that is unfounded. Reformist groups, political parties maybe...but traditional sadhus have no interest in Sikhi. I can think of once a century ago a juna akhara sannyasi wrote a sanskrit text against Guru Nanak Dev, to which the Udasis immediately penned a defence in sanskrit (no sticks or swords notice) and that was that. Swami Dayanand was a reformist, disliked by traditional samprdayas as much as Sikhs. So Sants go to the kumbh for prachar and the sant sangam. Sants going to tiraths is mainly about darshan, and ocassionally to represent the bhekh. In simple terms, in every yuga there have been sants. Bhai Gurdas Ji amply demonstrates that in his narratives. Gurbani (and also the Ramcharitmanas) both recognise that wherever the pavitar lotus feet of the Sant resides, that is the greatest of tiraths. For this reason any collection of sants is likened to the triveni sangam. Amardeep, Bachitar Natak says Guru Tegh Bahadar went to triveni (the site of the mahakumbh) and stayed performing acts of charity. Harkamal, I've not heard of a nirmala ashram there (not that that means there isn't). However I once met an Udasi sadhu who was trying to get me to come with him to his place in Omkareshvar which could be it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithar Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 Matheen, that last bit is completely false! The paranoia that traditional hindus are spreading misinformation about Sikhi is at best a view that is 20 years old, and one that is unfounded. Reformist groups, political parties maybe...but traditional sadhus have no interest in Sikhi. I can think of once a century ago a juna akhara sannyasi wrote a sanskrit text against Guru Nanak Dev, to which the Udasis immediately penned a defence in sanskrit (no sticks or swords notice) and that was that. Swami Dayanand was a reformist, disliked by traditional samprdayas as much as Sikhs. That's true TSingh Jee. Not too long ago I was also very much paranoid of Hindus and anything even remotely Hindu. The old Sampradayas of the Hindus have absolutely no interest in Sikh Dharm what so ever. But our prapaganda by the so called Panthic types has brainwashed us so much that we literally fear anything with even a hint of Hinduism in it. Is it any wonder that Hindu phobes like the Kala Afghanists have made such inroads into the Sikh community that we are even abandoning the basics of Sikhi. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 Thank you 'tsingh' ji for your response. If possible, could you kindly answer a few more? I really want to know why would sants such as baba attar singh ji need or want to go for 'blessings' at such places? Firstly, isn't everything we need with Guru Maharaj and his sangat? And also, aren't we then kind of saying we follow the same line as all other paths present there? It is not as if we would go for darshan of Muslim shrines. As before, these questions are truly for a novice such as myself to learn from and in no way doubting or questioning Mahapurash such as Baba Ji. Thank you for your time. On a side note, Udasis truly rock, they have an immensely important role in the Sikh panth. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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