Way to go! Respect!

[Mehtab Singh]

I personally find this as simply amazing, and it gives out a clear message that a terrorist who kills innocents has NO religion, and belongs to NO faith group.

http://publication.samachar.com/pub_articl...amp;nextIndex=4

A grieving Mumbai mourns the dead. At least 179 Indians and foreign nationals were gunned down in cold blood in a terrorist attack that has raised controversy and several questions.

And now questions are being raised over the fate of those nine men who unleashed the carnage and were gunned by the security forces.

Muslim organisations in Mumbai have decided that Muslim cemeteries in Mumbai, where unclaimed bodies are usually buried, will not open its doors for the last rites of these urban jehadis.

"The killing of innocents is against Islam. They are bringing shame to 25

crore Muslims of India. These men are not Muslims. Why should we give them place anywhere? There is no place for them in our hearts and in our cemeteries," said Hamid Abdul Razzak, president, Dawat-e-islami.

Unprecedented events demand an unprecedented response. And this time the community has gone beyond merely condemning terrorism. It's shutting its doors on those who claim to act in their name.

Determined to deny the terrorists the martyrdom they seek, Muslim organisations have written to senior Mumbai police officials as well.

"The cemetery should not allow the police to bury the nine dead terrorists in their premises," said Ibrahim Tai, president, Muslim Council Trust.

As Mumbai reels from last week's attack, there's anger, outrage and a lot of soul searching. Among this is a community determined to keep out the prodigals.

Forget about 72 virgins and rivers of milk/whine, these guys are not even getting a small amount of dust for their rotten corpses. So much for their so-called "martyrdom".

[Morghe Sahar]

Terrorism is the very negation of Islam. I am glad the Muslim Council refused to gives these kuffar any place to rest their corpses.

[SURYADEV]

Good job on the Muslim Councils part.

Yet if this carnage occured in the UK I doubt the response would have been the same.

[Morghe Sahar]

The UK Muslim scene is way too different and there is too much Saudi money involved in the Sunni scene for it to react in a similar way...

[tonyhp32]

It's a publicity stunt. Islamic clerics have no problem with burying suicide bombers who blow up women and children in Israel or even in the UK. It's not anything to do with Saudi money or no Saudi money, the Indian Muslims know that they have to behave for the next few months and not antagonise the Hindus otherwise they get a repeat of what happened in Gujarat after Godhra.

[shaheediyan]

I think there is unfortunately some truth in what Tony is saying. It would be nice if this were being done out of their 'higher conciousness' - (and I hope I am wrong and it is), but from what I know (having spoken to Muslm friends), a Muslim who accepts Muhammed Sahib as the last messenger, irelevant of their crimes, cannot be refused a burial. This may be a cultural view rather than doctrine per se, I don't know.

I think the council is acting wisely none the less (either way), nobody wants to see thousands of innocent Muslims suffer for the evil actions of a few. And in condemning the attacks and refusing last rites, they are showing their defiance to the fanatical leaders and terrorists around the world, particularly in Arabia. Hopefully it will do well to keep some unity in India also.

[Mithar]

The Muslim council acted very wisely. As Tony said, it was probably done to prevent a Hindu backlash but none the less the Muslims of Bombay are a moderate type of people. They just want to work and earn a living for themselves. Why should they have to suffer because of Pakistanis causing trouble in India?

Although in Pakistan they are coming up with counter argument saying that the whole operation was done by RAW and not Pakistanis.

[tonyhp32]

Conspiracy theories and Islam go hand and hand so there's no surprise that Pakistanis don't want to face the facts and hide behind conspiracy theories.

One of the interesting things that are happening in Mumbai is that many people are taking the politicians to task. In my view this is solely because for the first time terrorists have hit foreigners and the middle classes rather than just solely hit the poor such as in the usual train or market bombings. These middle classes never batted an eyelid when the poor were bombed but now they have become targets then suddenly you see 'enough is enough' protests taking place. There is also a new hyper jingoism coming out of Mumbai and many people there are confusing the country they live in with the United States. They think that India can take out terrorist training camps similar to the way the USA responded to the Embassy bombings and 9/11!

[Morghe Sahar]

Pakistan does not equal Islam. If it's true that certain Muslims have a tendency to indulge in conspiracy theories so do many Sikhs as well...

[shaheediyan]

I agree with Tony on the confused 'US' middleclasses. Too much Zee TV!!

[Mithar]

Pakistan does not equal Islam. If it's true that certain Muslims have a tendency to indulge in conspiracy theories so do many Sikhs as well...

Wow, you always have to bring it back on the Sikhs.

[Mithar]

Conspiracy theories and Islam go hand and hand so there's no surprise that Pakistanis don't want to face the facts and hide behind conspiracy theories.

Check this video out.

This guy is Zaid Hamid, he is very popular amongst the Pakistanis. He claims that the men who were the terrorists who attacked the hotels were Sikhs and Hindus pretending to be Muslims. LOL

[Morghe Sahar]

"Wow, you always have to bring it back on the Sikhs."

Why not?

Tony32hp says "Islam and conspiracy go hand and hand". Why on earth should I let such a stupid comment through?

I have had Dalit and Sikh students and acquaintances who actually believed India's Brahmins met one day and decided to rule over all other groups using some conspiray. I call it the "Protocols of Benares"theory. LOL

"Evil stingy veggie Brahmins conspiring against the brave Sikhs and (chose any other minority x y z) to break them." Read the "Sikhs in History" and you'll get an idea of what I mean. This most popular book among Khalistanis is pure conspiracy theory.

Conspiracy theorists exist everywhere and it isn't a speciality of any community. And keep in mind that tony32hp didnt say "Muslims" but Islam which is even more ridiculous. There are plenty of Muslim conspiracy theorists as well as white Americans, English, French and Sikhs.

Tony32hp is an encyclopedia of racist stereotypes. Mention the word Catholic and he'll reply: pedophiles: Say Jews and he'll reply : stingy. Say Gujju and he'll reply: stingier than Jews. But Sikhs are of course even more perfect than God himself.

There is a word for that: idolatry.

And to paraphrase your 10th master: man but shikan hastam, I am an idolbreaker

I lived with different communities in my life and it has been a great experience. What I concluded from my stay in the UK is this: apart from a few exceptions Pakistanis and Indian communities deserve each other and are as bad as each other. I worked on honour crimes related to both communities and it makes me laugh how both communities brag about themselves. Do you really think it is God that is being worshipped in UK mosques, mandirs and gurdware? Everywhere I have just met the same tribalism, the same ignorance of one's own classical culture and that of the host. There are many exceptions to this, people who managed to keep a level of dignity that is admirable, coupled with a good mastery of one's own root culture and host culture. For the rest these communities live in their little ghettos accusing each other of the same crimes: wife beating, welfare scrounging and what not but they are exactly the same in their pigish ignorance and their unwillingness to evolve as human beings and as citizens.

Tony32hp is no better than the other SOuth Asian biggots I met in the other South Asian communities, badmouthing other communities, in order big up his own tribe (i dare not say community) hoping that his white masters will look at him as a friend not realising that for the average British person he is just as bad as the people he badmouths.

He and his kind will sit with guys like Pat Condell in the vain hope to gain sympathy because "I hate Muslims too you know", in the same way Pakistanis will sit with some BNP person saying "I hate Hindus and Sikhs too man".

Ridiculous. Pure colonial slave mentality. I am glad I am out of this whole diaspora scene be it Indian or Pakistani or whatever.

So, Mithar, I can understand your will to defend your fellow brother in faith-tribe-caste (chose as appropriate), but no....for me it doesn't go back to Sikhs. It goes back to people stopping to talk out of their chittar and portraying a community that is as horrible as their own as the eternal evil one.

[Morghe Sahar]

"Check this video out.

This guy is Zaid Hamid, he is very popular amongst the Pakistanis. He claims that the men who were the terrorists who attacked the hotels were Sikhs and Hindus pretending to be Muslims. LOL"

Strange you don't mention that the same theory is upheld by members of your own community...biased?

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showto...0&hl=mumbai

"Dal Khalsa Press Early Release

'Don't Rule Out Hindutva Hand In Mumbai Terror'

While speculation mounts on the involvement of Islamist Jidhadist groups in Mumbai's carnage ,Dal Khalsa UK would like to point out that the Fanatical Hand of Hindutva could be behind the terrorist attacks in Mumbai and its Hotels.The hand of Hindutva groups and radical Hindu outfits like the Bajrang Dal,RSS, alongside ShivSena could well be behind the latest string of attacks,mostly aimed at the general public and tourists.

For the last 6 months the Indian Nation has been in World News Headlines regarding the on going genocide and ethnic cleansing of Christians in the North Eastern State of Orrisa,the Pope,EU and other World leaders have expressed their outrage to the Indian Govt about the brutal killings,rapes and destruction of Christian Chruches in Orissa by Fanatical Hindu Terror groups.

The word 'Hindu Terrorism' has also popped up in the Media in the last few weeks and leading newspapers like The Times UK and others are activley monitorinig Hindutva outfits like the RSS and Bajrang Dal and their activities in Orissa against Christians all this and pressure from activist groups in the UK have led to the RSS and Hindutva Terrorism in Orrisa to be discussed in the UK House Of Lords.Lord Patten(Conservative),with a whole host of Bishops have called on the UK Govt. to protest the killings and genocide and have also discussed a ban on these groups.

The Hindutva terrorism in Orrisa has given India a bad name in the international community,in order to take away the attention from Orissa Hindutva groups may well have engineered these attacks to take the attention away from 'Hindu Terrorism'which was reaching world headlines and back to Islamic Terrrorism.Its important to point out that in the last week at least 200 bodies have been recoverd dumped on a jungle in the state of Orrisa that just shows the magnitude of the killings in the North Eastern State.

Not only this the attacks could also have been carried out to have an influence on the outcome of India's next elections,as the Congress led Govt. is weak and is heavily opposed by most major Hindutva groups .In order to get into power once more through the BJP and to grab the votes of Hindu Nationalists these attacks may well have been enginered at just the right time.The reason for this is that 2 Leading officials who were leading the Investigation into 'Hindu Terror Cells' in Mumbai have been killed,it is improtant at this time to recall the arrest of the Hindu Sadhvi Pragya Thakur she was arrested for the Malegoan blasts and had alledged involvement in making bombs and bomb factories.The ATF Chief leading the investigation Hemant Karkare was killed a few days ago in the Mumbai Terror attacks along with another ATF senior member,Hindu radicals have celebrated his death as a blessing from God and have expressed their gratitude that he is now dead.This is evident from comments left on Indian News Blogs:

'Pragya’s heartfelt cry and prayer to Hindu Goddess Durga, that might have resulted in the killing of not only Hemant Karkare but also other members of ATS and the Marthi Police manoos.'

'Death of Hemant Karkare 1 ATS head Hemant Karkare’s demise was welcomed by Hindus as he was trying to create artificial Hindu terrorists'

' ATS head Hemant Karkare’s death is due to his illegal and immoral way of detaining a Hindu Sadhvi Pragya.'

http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.a...ERROR%20ATTACKS

This leads us to ask the question as to why the head of a Govt agency who deals not with criminals but with terrorists was killed?IWhere was his security?Body armour?ts easy to say he was shot dead and so on,but would we see Metropolitan Chief Sir Paul Stephenson, on the front line in an attack like this in the UK?

There is the possibility the head of the ATF was killed of due to his exposure of Hindu Terrorism and the arrest of the Sadhvi,Hindutva groups were growing very hostile towards the ATF and their uncovering and use of the word Hindu Terrorism.The BJP/RSS has and continue to activley support the Sadhvi and all the suspects arressted in the Malegaon Blast cases,and they are highly critical of the ATF and its management.

With the attacks being blamed on Islamic Jihadists and Pakistan this may well be used as a reason to crack down on Muslims living within India,and one cannot rule out the chance of another 'Gujarat 2002'(Genocide) through the Right Wing propaganda of the RSS Hindutva terrorists.In 2002 as well Islamic Fanatics were blamed for the train bombing of Hindus ,but earlier this year it came to light that these attacks were themselves enginered by the Bajrang Dal and RSS ,this attack was used as a reason to attack Muslims and cause communal tensions all this was exposed by the Tehelka Network in an undercover sting opertion using hidden cameras and interviews of Hindutva leaders.

The Chinese Official Daily also says that Hindutva may have a hand in this horrific incident

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/china-of...6;./391937/

Dal Khalsa UK and the Sikh Community as a whole would like to at this time send its condolences to the families of the victims of this sickening attack on unarmed civilians and tourists who were going about their daily lives only for them to be tragicly ended by the terror of cowards and inhumane terrorists

We hope peace prevails and that the spirit of Humanity shines through these dark days.

Nanak Naam Chardi Kalla Tere Bhaneh Sarbat Da Bhalla

Follow up to questions on press release

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?showto...st&p=381481

To understand more please

watch & read

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/china-of...6;./391937/

http://www.kashmirwatch.com/showexclusives...news=value1news

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5F4_qwtM5yY&...feature=related

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Eij5o7XizIA

Watch all parts

Another discussion 4/5 parts

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=exvlatXpCnI

"

[Morghe Sahar]

btw: I honestly don't care who did it...

[shaheediyan]

Sadly, what Bahadur Ali says is all too true.

The same is also sadly true for Bahadur Ali - based on comments he has made in the past on other Hindu, Sikh, Sunni and Jewish communities - whilst elevating his own (current).

Wouldn't it be nice if all could see their own faults and be man enough to admit them.

Comments from people liek Tony are always far from Gurmat, so in my view, not considered Sikh.

[Morghe Sahar]

Dear Shaheediyan,

1.I have no problems with Jews, just Zionists.

2. The Pakistani Shi'a community is generally as bad as the others. They refuse to have khutbas in English, believe sayyid women cant marry non sayyid men (ridiculous), malangs refuse to pray and indulge in bloody zanjeer matam etc etc...

3. as for the Portuguese community though there is less criminality in it and it is more integrated in the UK, it has its own problems in other countries.

[shaheediyan]

What about the growing fanatical/terrorist elements of the Irani and Iraqi community?

[amardeep]

O Nanak, if someone judges himself, only then is he known as a real judge.

Guru Angad Dev

[Morghe Sahar]

shaheediyan wrote:

"What about the growing fanatical/terrorist elements of the Irani and Iraqi community?"

Please care to name them.

Are you talking about the Mujahideen e Khalq who have assassinated elected ministers, presidents and countless civilians in Iran after 1979 and who are now residing under American protection?

Or are you talking about the Balochi Jundullah in Balochistan financed by Saudi Arabia and trained by the CIA?

[tonyhp32]

Islam was founded on a conspiracy theory, that Jews were given a scripture which they then corrupted and that Jesus was a 'prophet' of Allah and not the Son of God.

Here's a collection of the better known Islamic conspiracy theories. Even the Shia seem to not be immune from conspiracy theories either-;

http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Conspiracy_Theories

[Morghe Sahar]

Tony32hp wrote:

"Islam was founded on a conspiracy theory, that Jews were given a scripture which they then corrupted and that Jesus was a 'prophet' of Allah and not the Son of God.

Here's a collection of the better known Islamic conspiracy theories. Even the Shia seem to not be immune from conspiracy theories either-;

http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Conspiracy_Theories"

If that's the case then Sikhism was founded on a conspiracy theory too as your 10th master keeps repeating in Bachitar Natak that all prophets before him failed and that he's the one coming with the right message...

People who live in glass houses...

Mind you tony32hp you are always true to yourself quoting real academic authorities on Islam like wikiislam.com. You know Tony, beyond Southall there are more cities with less people like you but who are also human beings (I know it's hard for you to swallow this truth at first). It so happens that there are three cities not to far away from Southall called, London (capital of a country called Britain, just next to Southall), Oxford and Cambridge. Now these cities have things called universities. Think of it as big schools where they teach other things besides dentistry, accountancy and IT (WOW). These also happen to have Islamic studies department in which scholars in that field work and teach. You can even go and have courses there. (exciting isn't it?). Now when grown up and serious people talk about Islam they normally refer to books written by these people NOT by the neo-con (emphasis con both French and English).

I am sure one day you'll gather all your courage to take that train ticket to either visit these places and meet those scholars or that you'll be able to give up your neo-porn sites like jihadwatch.org etc...

I believe in you Tony, muah

[Mithar]

shaheediyan wrote:

"What about the growing fanatical/terrorist elements of the Irani and Iraqi community?"

Please care to name them.

Are you talking about the Mujahideen e Khalq who have assassinated elected ministers, presidents and countless civilians in Iran after 1979 and who are now residing under American protection?

Or are you talking about the Balochi Jundullah in Balochistan financed by Saudi Arabia and trained by the CIA?

One man's terrorist is another man's hero, we all have heard that one. For the Shia, the Hezbollah and Mahdi army are heroes, but for the Sunnis, Americans, Zionists they are terrorists. Similarly, many groups that the Shai consider to be terrorists are in fact considered good by the Sunnis. It all comes down to which perspective you look at it, and that goes for all ethnic and sectarian groups around the world. Iran is considered a terrorist country by the Americans and Israelis, but many Muslims would consider American and Israel to be the terrorist states.

[Morghe Sahar]

Sorry repost:

Tony32hp wrote:

"Islam was founded on a conspiracy theory, that Jews were given a scripture which they then corrupted and that Jesus was a 'prophet' of Allah and not the Son of God.

Here's a collection of the better known Islamic conspiracy theories. Even the Shia seem to not be immune from conspiracy theories either-;

http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Conspiracy_Theories"

If that's the case then Sikhism was founded on a conspiracy theory too as your 10th master keeps repeating in Bachitar Natak that all prophets before him failed and that he's the one coming with the right message...

People who live in glass houses...

Mind you tony32hp you are always true to yourself quoting real academic authorities on Islam like wikiislam.com. You know Tony, beyond Southall there are more cities with less people like you but who are also human beings (I know it's hard for you to swallow this truth at first). It so happens that there are three cities not to far away from Southall called, London (capital of a country called Britain, just next to Southall), Oxford and Cambridge. Now these cities have things called universities. Think of it as big schools where they teach other things besides dentistry, accountancy and IT (WOW). These also happen to have Islamic studies department in which scholars in that field work and teach. You can even go and have courses there. (exciting isn't it?). Now when grown up and serious people talk about Islam they normally refer to books written by these people NOT by the neo-con (emphasis on "con" both French and English).

I am sure one day you'll gather all your courage to take that train ticket to either visit these places and meet those scholars or that you'll be able to give up your addiction to neo-con porn sites like jihadwatch.org etc...

I believe in you Tony, muah

[shaheediyan]

So the numerous Shia 'militias' aren't responsible for uncounted secterian killings/murders?

My aim is not to chuck stones, but just get you to take a glimpse in your own backyard, as you have tried to do with Tony.

Seems like you are both destined to keep your eyelids glued together.