dalsingh101 Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 (edited) I was reading Bhai Gurdas's vaars: ਜੁਗਿ ਜੁਗਿ ਮੇਰੁ ਸਰੀਰ ਕਾ ਬਾਸਨਾ ਬਧਾ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਵੈ । jugi jugi mayru sareer kaa baasanaa badhaa aavai jaavai| Since time immemorial, on account of the bondage of unfulfilled desires, the jiv has been suffering transmigration. Line 1 ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਫੇਰਿ ਵਟਾਈਐ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਹੋਇ ਮਰਮੁ ਕਉ ਪਾਵੈ । dhiri dhiri dhayri vataaeeai giaanee hoi maramu kau paavai| Time and again, the body is changed, but the mystery of this change can be understood by becoming knowledgeable. Line 2 ਸਤਿਜੁਗਿ ਦੂਜਾ ਭਰਮੁ ਕਰਿ ਤ੍ਰੇਤੇ ਵਿਚਿ ਜੋਨੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਆਵੈ । satijugi doojaa bharamu kari traytay vichi jonee dhiri aavai| Engrossed in duality in satyug, the jiv entered into the body in treta. Line 3 ਤ੍ਰੇਤੇ ਕਰਮਾਂ ਬਾਂਧਤੇ ਦੁਆਪਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਕਰਾਵੈ । traytay karamaan baandhatay duaapari dhiri avataar karaavai| Getting caught in karma-bondage in treta Line 4 ਦੁਆਪਰਿ ਮਮਤਾ ਅਹੰ ਕਰਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਗਰਬਿ ਗਲਾਵੈ । duaapari mamataa ahan kari haumai andari garabi galaavai| he was born in dvapar and remained writhing and wriggling. Line 5 ਤ੍ਰਿਹੁ ਜੁਗਾਂ ਕੇ ਕਰਮ ਕਰਿ ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਸੰਸਾ ਨ ਚੁਕਾਵੈ । trihu jugaan kay karam kari janam maran sansaa n chukaavai| Even the performance of the duties of three ages does not dispel the fear of birth and death. Line 6 ਫਿਰਿ ਕਲਿਜੁਗ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਦੇਹਿ ਧਰਿ ਕਰਮਾਂ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਫੇਰਿ ਫਸਾਵੈ । dhiri kalijug andari dayhi dhari karamaan andari dhayri dhasaavai| The jiv reincarnates in kaliyug and gets entangled in the karmas. Line 7 ਅਉਸਰੁ ਚੁਕਾ ਹਥ ਨ ਆਵੈ ॥੧੫॥ ausaru chukaa had n aavai ॥15॥ Lost opportunity comes not again. Line 8 Have our souls been been loafing around since satyug!! All that time just to get to be me.......... Edited October 10, 2010 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 yup 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laalsingh Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 I was reading Bhai Gurdas's vaars: Have our souls been been loafing around since satyug!! All that time just to get to be me.......... You are blessed Singha! Feel the joy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted October 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 You are blessed Singha! Feel the joy. Brother, it certainly doesn't feel like that these days but I'll take your word for it! lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balbir Singh Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Brother, it certainly doesn't feel like that these days but I'll take your word for it! lol Bhai Gurdaas Jee may not be talking about you in this poem. He may be talking about his experience. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sardar Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 (edited) These 4 yugs also in bani refer to mind states- because kal jug has been around for ages evil deeds have been always done in mans history. Kaljug can happen now and satjug can happen now in our mind, when we become the lotus flower and rise above the mud. When it comes to bodily change that occurs with change in our state of mind so our soul can loaf around now. Edited October 11, 2010 by sarbatdapala 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balbir Singh Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 These 4 yugs also in bani refer to mind states- because kal jug has been around for ages evil deeds have been always done in mans history. Kaljug can happen now and satjug can happen now in our mind, when we become the lotus flower and rise above the mud. When it comes to bodily change that occurs with change in our state of mind so our soul can loaf around now. Gathering information about Yug is not enough. Experiencing those is worth. It is possible on the path of the spiritual growth. Through Naam Simran it becomes easiest. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheena Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 This is a very good question. I've wondered about this myself more than few times. To think how long these Yug's really are and to think that I, this Jiva, never in those thousands and thousands of years came across a True Guru to liberate me......until this lifetime. OR perhaps I did, but never follow through with the Guru's Word!! Such ignorance and lack of self-motivation! To think I still suffer from the same vices that I have been dealing with all the countless past lives. I'm not even sure if its worth it anymore to take anything that happens in this life seriously...I mean, how many times, in how many births will I cry at someone's funeral, how many times my heart will be broken by girls or boys and I would think that it was the end of the world for me, how many times I will laugh at the same jokes, time and time again. To think I stand knocking at the same lustfull thoughts, angry rocks, wearing the same arrogant socks. <couldn't think of anything else that rhymed with rocks > When the Guru says, you are fortunate to be in SadhSangat, the word Fortunate does not even cover 1% of the value behind the Guru's statement. It is unfathomable to think that I, this Jiva spend countless lives wandering around only to come at this point, in this life, in this body, in this circle of Divine circumstance to realize that I am not who I thought I was.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sardar Posted November 5, 2010 Report Share Posted November 5, 2010 (edited) Parcharaks say the soul evolves so it begins from rocks and takes on bigger lifeforms slowly and slowly only to return from where it came- God. But who knows maybe we might be interpreted sri guru granth sahib wrong. The idea exists amongst bhagat gita and some sufi muslims such as Rumi who have taken verse of the quran to suggest reincarnation but other scholars take it to mean rebirth meaning man will come back to be judged in judgement day the body rising up for that, the arguments continue. I personally want to have some experience in which I can prove the notion of this solidly in a rational scientific way so it is completely solid to me. Edited November 5, 2010 by sarbatdapala 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted November 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2010 (edited) Parcharaks say the soul evolves so it begins from rocks and takes on bigger lifeforms slowly and slowly only to return from where it came- God. But who knows maybe we might be interpreted sri guru granth sahib wrong. The idea exists amongst bhagat gita and some sufi muslims such as Rumi who have taken verse of the quran to suggest reincarnation but other scholars take it to mean rebirth meaning man will come back to be judged in judgement day the body rising up for that, the arguments continue. I personally want to have some experience in which I can prove the notion of this solidly in a rational scientific way so it is completely solid to me. I've moved away from seeking answers to spiritual matters through reductionalist, scientific, material explanations. When it comes to the eternal soul, it seems to be beyond material dimensions so I don't think it is an appropriate perspective to use to gain insights.In fact I think they are actually more of a ball and chain. That isn't to say we should go to the other extreme and just go along with any old thing we are told like certain apnay do. Edited November 5, 2010 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted November 5, 2010 Report Share Posted November 5, 2010 The soul is unlimited hence it can't be understood by using a limited mind 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sardar Posted November 8, 2010 Report Share Posted November 8, 2010 (edited) Apart from accepting what Gurus, prophets, sages, devi/devta, pirs, fakirs, babas, sadhus, sidhis, yogis, and many masters have said, how do we prove the existence of the soul? Blind faith feels scary. Edited November 8, 2010 by sarbatdapala 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted November 8, 2010 Report Share Posted November 8, 2010 Go to your local ISCON Hare Krishna temple. They spend a lot of time proving the existence of the soul in their discourse of why people should leave atheism. Very convincing arguments using science, logic and reason only 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted November 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 Go to your local ISCON Hare Krishna temple. Is that where you've been hanging around recently? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 We have one close to our local gurdwara so i used to go there and learn about karma and reincarnation philosophy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sardar Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 Do they do murti pooja, how can one pay respect to it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sardar Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 (edited) (duplicate post do not know how to delete) Edited November 9, 2010 by sarbatdapala 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekhane'ch Jannat Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 Apart from accepting what Gurus, prophets, sages, devi/devta, pirs, fakirs, babas, sadhus, sidhis, yogis, and many masters have said, how do we prove the existence of the soul? Blind faith feels scary. This can only be proved through scientific experiment. First you have to accept a certain hypothesis and from this hypothesis you have to do tests and experients to find out if this hypothesis is correct. The laboratory is the human body and the chemicals are the hormones, secretions etc. And the hands that mix the chemicals is the mann the thinking mind. And the experimenter is the self. All experiments a priori need the experimenter. But the aim of this experiment is also to create the philosophers stone of pure happiness. Also if the experimenter is blind and deaf and dumb he will just smash up his laboratory so it is better for such an experimenter to have certain 'moving desire ideas' or laboratory attendents to come in and run the laboratory. But in this way the experimenter does not experience anything or learn anything new - so he is sacked, finished. Needless to say only someone who is full control of his laboratory and experiments can prove the existence of the soul, he becomes living proof through his actions. But such a one is rare. And promotions and grants can be got only when one has proved his efficieny in a certain line of work. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted November 9, 2010 Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 I did'n say you needed to participate in their rituals, I just said go talk to them as they are very knowledgeable about the theory of karma and reincarnation from an intelectual point of view 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted November 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2010 We have one close to our local gurdwara so i used to go there and learn about karma and reincarnation philosophy I knew it!! Bloody RSS agent! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sardar Posted December 29, 2010 Report Share Posted December 29, 2010 Generally the panthic idea is to accept reincarnation but how do we know it does not mean states of mind, that the human mind is not having 8.4 million states after which we hit jeevanmukhti while alive? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 14, 2015 Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Thats right Atma/paratma- Aaad sach jugad sach hai bhi sach nanak hosi sach 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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