Did humans actually evolve from apes (Darwin's theory of evolution) according to sikhism?

[WakeUp]

43 minutes ago, opal said:

I never thought energy meant 'shakti' to be honest. The word 'shakti' sounds much nicer than the word 'energy' but never occurred to me ever. Some people refer to God as Vishnu. God is energy/Shakti.  In my view, there will be no consciousness without God or shakti! Everything receives consciousness from the Source. 

Actually God IS consciousness. Consciousness is not something which is given or created by God. Consciousness just IS. It's the base reality of existence. Consciousness is formless, yet contains all forms within itself (both nirgun and sargun aspect) it creates and yet pervades all of creation (Gurbani says creation is born of the light and the light is in the creation).

Have a look at the double slit experiment which illustrates there measurement problem. The mere act of observation by a conscious observer collapses the wave function, forcing an electron to behave as a particle (something solid) instead of a wave (something intangible). It's the mere act of observing of being conscious that creates. 

Also reference akashic records is not a 'place' so to speak even though the name makes it sound like it is. It's the underlying information contained the entire existence of the universe. It's accessible from any point in the universe at any time. Remember I suggested looking up holographic universe theory? A hologram stores the entire image in any part of the image so that you can break it down into tiny parts and each tiny part contains all of the information. Quantum physicists believe the universe is like a huge hologram. 

[BhagatSingh]

This is the most boring fight ever. BOOOOO!!

*throws all popcorn into garbage*

 

Edit - Oh wait, missed the post by Wakeup above.

*Pulls out Popcorn from garbage*

If time is an illusion did I ever throw away the popcorn?

[WakeUp]

46 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said:

This is the most boring fight ever. BOOOOO!!

*throws all popcorn into garbage*

 

Edit - Oh wait, missed the post by Wakeup above.

*Pulls out Popcorn from garbage*

If time is an illusion did I ever throw away the popcorn?

The only thing you can say for certain is that u have the memory of throwing away the popcorn and the popcorn is in the trash now. Reminds me of the movie total recall. Lol But then are the popcorn and trash can even real or are they just elements of the big dream? If you dream you threw popcorn in the garbage tonight and woke up remembering it tomorrow, did you in fact throw anything in the garbage? The past memory is no different than dream recall. They are engrained the same way in your memory and both reside in quantum state. The only real thing we can grasp on to is now. Future and past are only memories (yes future is also memory). That's why so many spiritual paths say there is only the here and now to work with. 

[opal]

On 26/10/2016 at 9:16 AM, WakeUp said:

Actually God IS consciousness. Consciousness is not something which is given or created by God. Consciousness just IS. It's the base reality of existence. Consciousness is formless, yet contains all forms within itself (both nirgun and sargun aspect) it creates and yet pervades all of creation (Gurbani says creation is born of the light and the light is in the creation).

Have a look at the double slit experiment which illustrates there measurement problem. The mere act of observation by a conscious observer collapses the wave function, forcing an electron to behave as a particle (something solid) instead of a wave (something intangible). It's the mere act of observing of being conscious that creates. 

Also reference akashic records is not a 'place' so to speak even though the name makes it sound like it is. It's the underlying information contained the entire existence of the universe. It's accessible from any point in the universe at any time. Remember I suggested looking up holographic universe theory? A hologram stores the entire image in any part of the image so that you can break it down into tiny parts and each tiny part contains all of the information. Quantum physicists believe the universe is like a huge hologram. 

Yes, God is definitely conciouness, but that consciousness is energy.  Nothing can become concious without energy or shakti. God/consciousness/energy/shakti creates itself. It is both form and formless, no doubt about it.

To think that the electron is not aware of a concious observer is ludicrous, as far as I think.  Electron is energy too, when it's energy is aligned with the concious observer's energy it reacts! Matter can behave as wave or particle depending on whether it is being observed or not!  (Wave Duality Theory) Besides, the concious observer is observing the space between the two atoms!! This space in between is also concious energy! 

[opal]

9 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

This is the most boring fight ever. BOOOOO!!

*throws all popcorn into garbage*

 

Edit - Oh wait, missed the post by Wakeup above.

*Pulls out Popcorn from garbage*

If time is an illusion did I ever throw away the popcorn?

Here, go pick your popcorn out of the garbage! Be sure not to eat it because it might contaminated

[BhagatSingh]

You are both wrong!

Feast your eyes upon the eternity that is the present moment!

Shiv and Shakti both arise out of Mahakal, the supreme Time.  Both consciousness and Energy, Shiv and Shakti, are merely arising and falling in Kaal, boundless Father Time! They both arise in the present moment. Mahakal hai Pita Apara. In his body, exists countless consciousnesses, countless forms of energy.

Kaal consumes conscious, energy-filled entities for breakfast. Thus Time is ultimately real. All else is false. Time alone is Timeless.

None can escape the jaws of Mahakal!



Get wrecked

[WakeUp]

Haha I know you are joking because time even changes based upon location of the observer. Centre of a black hole and time will almost be stopped compared to outside the event horizon. So time is not something tangible across existence: it's part of the illusion. Ultimate truth is oneness - changeless. 

[opal]

Einstein referred to time as a "stubbornly persistent illusion!"

 

 

[BhagatSingh]

Oh no friends. No joke.

All measurements (theories) that say time is relative is only really relative to the measurement that is being made.

All consciousness that perceives time is only perceiving a portion of time (time that is relative to consciousness).

All measurements performed and all consciousnesses perceiving, are getting only portions of time, not the vast present moment in they were measuring and being aware.

Time is beyond measurement and it is beyond consciousness.

It is the all encompassing eternity.

It is the eternal now.

The immeasurable now.

It includes all relative time that you can understand. But it beyond all relative time. Black holes come and go from existence, consumed by time.

It is Mahakal, incomprehensible, immeasurable, imperceptible.

 

You guys understand your paradigms well.

Wakeup you understand the paradigm that is Consciousness-centric. You think time and energy are within the field of consciousness. And that limits you from understanding the energy-centric paradigm which Opal presented and time-centric paradigm that I presented.

Opal you understand the paradigm that is Energy centric. You think consciousness and time are within the field of energy. And that limits you from understanding the consciousness-centric paradigm that Wakeup presented and time-centric paradigm that I presented.

Now I want you to go into your experience of your paradigm. The most pure experience you can generate.

Really do it.

Clarify your experience, trust it and let it sit and observe it.

Can you see how that appears as Consciousness and Energy and Time depending on how you approach it?

See the reality of it all, that transcends any individual paradigm, including your own.

[Lucky]

All existence is constantly changing, moment to moment.

Energy is also in constant continuous motion.......

TIME is consuming (eating away) into this existence at a constant rate also.

 

Good stuff, I'm out of popcorn

 

 

 

[Ragmaala]

On October 26, 2016 at 2:50 PM, BhagatSingh said:

You are both wrong!

Feast your eyes upon the eternity that is the present moment!

Shiv and Shakti both arise out of Mahakal, the supreme Time.  Both consciousness and Energy, Shiv and Shakti, are merely arising and falling in Kaal, boundless Father Time! They both arise in the present moment. Mahakal hai Pita Apara. In his body, exists countless consciousnesses, countless forms of energy.

Kaal consumes conscious, energy-filled entities for breakfast. Thus Time is ultimately real. All else is false. Time alone is Timeless.

None can escape the jaws of Mahakal!



Get wrecked

Sick picture!

mahakaal is a bad ass

[BhagatSingh]

5 hours ago, Ragmaala said:

Sick picture!

mahakaal is a bad ass

Lol. Indeed he is. wink wink ;)

They are all badass.

They are different representations of that which is at the center of everything.

One person might call it consciousness, another might call it energy and another might call it time. The consciousness guy says energy and time are illusions. The energy guy says consciousness and time are illusions. The time guy says consciousness and energy are illusions.

On 2016-10-26 at 4:22 PM, BhagatSingh said:

Now I want you to go into your experience of your paradigm. The most pure experience you can generate.

Can you see how that appears as Consciousness and Energy and Time depending on how you approach it?

It is important to be in touch with that pure essence.

I personally prescribe to the Consciousness-centric worldview similar to WakeUp, which is what is expressed in Guru Granth Sahib also, using not the name 'Shiv' or the english word 'consciousness' but instead the names, pictures and stories of - Hari, Vishnu, Ram and Krishna.

But I understand other paradigms like that of Adi Shakti (which Opal presented) and that of Mahakal (which I presented), both of which are also discussed in Dasam Granth.
 

One should go into the very deepest essence that one can access. Never lose sight of that essence in all the worldviews and belief systems that exist. That essence alone is ultimately real and not the beliefs you prescribe to.

But it is also important to have beliefs. Beliefs are the backbone of your spiritual growth. They are tools that you will use to hammer your intellect and transform it into something beautiful.

It is important to have beliefs and to stick by them like Baba Namdev ji did in the court of the Muslim Emperor who wanted him killed for not chanting Allah instead of chanting Hari and Ram. He stood by his belief system even though he understood the belief system of the emperor. While under attack, he rattled his chains and sung of Ram.

Namdev ji himself taught do not chant other names, only stick to chanting Ram. It means to stick to a belief system so that you can progress spiritually and learn to taste the essence. Ram was the center of Namdev ji's belief system so that's what he taught.

But some people take the wrong meaning out of it and start rejecting other belief systems as ignorance. They say mine is superior and yours is all nonsense. They devote their attention to this pursuit and not the pursuit their belief system is encouraging, thus they do not progress spiritually.

Other people take the easy route and accept everything as true without understanding the essence. They say every belief system is good, they become lazy and don't follow any system. They remain ignorant. Thus they do not progress spiritually either.

Namdev ji says one who follows a belief system and makes progress in that system is the enlightened one.

Now perhaps this shabad will make more sense, when read again in a new light -

[Lucky]

17 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

One should go into the very deepest essence that one can access. Never lose sight of that essence in all the worldviews and belief systems that exist. That essence alone is ultimately real and not the beliefs you prescribe to.

But it is also important to have beliefs. Beliefs are the backbone of your spiritual growth. They are tools that you will use to hammer your intellect and transform it into something beautiful.

It is important to have beliefs and to stick by them like Baba Namdev ji did in the court of the Muslim Emperor who wanted him killed for not chanting Allah instead of chanting Hari and Ram. He stood by his belief system even though he understood the belief system of the emperor. While under attack, he rattled his chains and sung of Ram.

Namdev ji himself taught do not chant other names, only stick to chanting Ram. It means to stick to a belief system so that you can progress spiritually and learn to taste the essence. Ram was the center of Namdev ji's belief system so that's what he taught.

But some people take the wrong meaning out of it and start rejecting other belief systems as ignorance. They say mine is superior and yours is all nonsense. They devote their attention to this pursuit and not the pursuit their belief system is encouraging, thus they do not progress spiritually.

Other people take the easy route and accept everything as true without understanding the essence. They say every belief system is good, they become lazy and don't follow any system. They remain ignorant. Thus they do not progress spiritually either.

Namdev ji says one who follows a belief system and makes progress in that system is the enlightened one.

Now perhaps this shabad will make more sense, when read again in a new light -

 

Excellent bro!

After revisiting the botched translations thread with the particular "aaj Naamey bithaal dekhiya" shabad mentioned above, and with further pondering and meditation, I can say "accomplished".  I was probably about 95% with you back then, but It's a firm 100 now!

 

I was so grateful that my mind's been playing the below version all day

 

[WakeUp]

Time can not be the base reality, because even within this reality the passing of time changes depending on the location of the observer. Time is only change or a measurement of change. Ultimate reality is oneness which is unchanging yet contains all change, time is just a perception like reading a story within a book vice looking at the closed book on the table. Yes base reality is energy but that energy is conscious or else there would be no creation. Creation requires contemplation / creativity. If time is a base reality of all then it would be hard wired and would be the same everywhere. But we know it's affected by gravity. So God is not 'time' rather God creates time. Actually according to science gravity is more of a base truth than time simply because time is affected by gravity and not the other way around. Gravity is affected by density. (Higgs Bosun - the God particle) but all of those things still exist within creation and are not unchanging. So therefore even though God is within them and they are within God they in an of themselves are not God. 

[LiquidSky]

I found it funny when people talk about natural selection to Indian people. People in previous generations in India had arranged marriage, how does this work as "natural selection" when it only serves the purpose of the family. Please dont start saying when your parents choices a partner for you that counts as natural selection.

I myself am not against a person selecting their own partner to get married to.

The link below shows why arranged marriage should be banned because it doesnt fit the "Natural selection".

http://morphicminds.com/arranged-marriages-are-against-nature-must-be-banned/

 

[BhagatSingh]

In the post below, I am explaining the different faces of God. It is difficult to see them without meditation and developing what is traditionally known as Divya Drishti, divine sight, which comes from meditation and grace.

Avoid reading theories upon theories without meditating. It will not get you anywhere.
So this post is not a replacement for meditation. and this post cannot be understood fully without meditation.

When in doubt always meditate (instead of thinking). Thinking cannot clear doubt.
 

22 hours ago, WakeUp said:

If time is a base reality of all then it would be hard wired and would be the same everywhere. But we know it's affected by gravity. So God is not 'time' rather God creates time.

You (and me) are defining God as consciousness. Yet consciousness is also something within creation.

This is because God Consciousness is not the same as Man Consciousness. Absolute Consciousness vs Relative Consciousness.

God Time is not the same as Man Time. Absolute Time vs Relative Time (that changes with perception and gravity).
 

Quote

Time can not be the base reality, because even within this reality the passing of time changes depending on the location of the observer. Time is only change or a measurement of change.

So when Guru Granth Sahib is talking about God Consciousness and says time is an illusion. They are speaking from the point of view and from the belief system of Consciousness, where time is changing or a measurement of change.

Guru Granth Sahib says Consciousness is ultimately outside of Time. That it is God Consciousness who is entering Time-Space to protect devotees for instance. Guru Amardas ji tells the story of Prahlaad ji, for whom the God Consciousness, Narsingh, appeared before everyone to save him. Absolute Consciousness (Narsingh) entering Time-Space to protect devotees for instance.

Guru Amardas ji says
ਭਗਤਾ ਕਾ ਅੰਗੀਕਾਰੁ ਕਰਦਾ ਆਇਆ ॥ ਕਰਤੈ ਅਪਣਾ ਰੂਪੁ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ ॥
He always protects his devotees. Once again, the Creator, Narsingh, has showed himself!

Dasam Granth considers God Time as the reality and speaks from that and says that Consciousness entering and leaving Time, that is not God. Consciousness is not absolute, consciousness is consumed by God Time.

According to Dasam Granth (in Vachitra Natak Granth),
ਨਰਸਿੰਘਾਵਤਾਰੰ ॥ ਵਹੈ ਕਾਲ ਮਾਰੰ ॥
Narsingh is simply something appearing in Time, that was destroyed by Time (Kaal) afterwards.

From the perspective of Time, Consciousness appears and disappears, Time does not.


In Guru Granth Sahib Narsingh is Absolute Consciousness. Hence why they worship Narsingh.
ਕਹਿ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਹਮ ਨਰਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਵਹ ਰਾਮੁ ਅਭੈ ਪਦ ਦਾਤਾ ॥
Says Nam Dev, I meditate on Narsingh, the giver of fearlessness, the liberator.
 

So Guru Granth Sahib is saying Kaal is an illusion inside Narsingh. And Dasam Granth is saying that Narsingh is an illusion inside Kaal.

Two very different paradigms.
 

Quote

Ultimate reality is oneness which is unchanging yet contains all change, time is just a perception like reading a story within a book vice looking at the closed book on the table.

Yes and Time is the ultimate oneness and is unchanging and contains all changes.

Every change is happening in Time. It is the Eternal Present Moment. Time is also perceived as a moment but the perception also takes place in Time.


Dasam Granth (in Vachitra Natak Granth) -

ਜਿਤੇ ਹੋਇ ਬੀਤੇ ॥ ਤਿਤੇ ਕਾਲ ਜੀਤੇ ॥
All things that came into being, were conquered by Time.

ਜਿਤੇ ਸਰਨਿ ਜੈਹੈਂ ॥ਤਿਤਿਓ ਰਾਖ ਲੈਹੈਂ ॥੭੫॥
Whoever goes into the sanctuary of Time (called Present Moment), they are saved.

 

Quote

Actually according to science gravity is more of a base truth than time simply because time is affected by gravity and not the other way around. Gravity is affected by density. (Higgs Bosun - the God particle) but all of those things still exist within creation and are not unchanging.

Scientific theories are always limited to a certain paradigm. Current science lives in the materialistic paradigm that the Physical Universe is the ultimate reality and everything exists within the Physical only, and the Physical Universe has generated Consciousness through evolution.

That's one face of God.


We believe that Consciousness generates the physical universe. Physical universe lives inside Consciousness. Hence why Vishnu is called Shri Niwaas, the house of the world itself.

Rupert Spira is very good at explaining this.

That's another face of God.

Keep watching and Rupert also gives a Time-Centric explanation at - 12:38. Maybe you'll understand him better than me.


Paradigms with Time at the center is another face of God.

Eckharte Tolle is very good at explaining this Time-centric view as well. Read "The Power of Now".

In terms of scientific theories - If you listen to Stuart Hammeroff's theory of consciousness. He says it is Space-Time Geometry that collapses into Happenings, which is defined as a moment of Perception. He is essentially saying Time generates Consciousness.

Stuart is the guy on the left with the white beard and bald head.