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Mukti/Salvation

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1. What is Mukti...

2.What happens to soul after Mukti

3. Is Mukti same as being is Akaal Purakhs Charan...

4.Theres one Doha by Kabeer ji in which he says (forgive me for not knowing the exact words) something like....I dont want Mukti or dhan Daulat ...all I want is Guru's Love and his charan....So I wish to ask is being in Guru's Charan Different from Mukti ?

I would be highly thankful if u cud answer this

WJKK WJKF

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Theres one Doha by Kabeer ji in which he says (forgive me for not knowing the exact words) something like....I dont want Mukti or dhan Daulat ...all I want is Guru's Love and his charan
Raaj Na Chaahu, Mukat Na Chaahu, Mann Preet Charan Kamla Re...i dont want kingdoms or liberation, i want the love of your feet oh Lord.

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1. What is Mukti...

2.What happens to soul after Mukti

3. Is Mukti same as being is Akaal Purakhs Charan...

4.Theres one Doha by Kabeer ji in which he says (forgive me for not knowing the exact words) something like....I dont want Mukti or dhan Daulat ...all I want is Guru's Love and his charan....So I wish to ask is being in Guru's Charan Different from Mukti ?

I would be highly thankful if u cud answer this

WJKK WJKF

Gurfateh Ji

1. Mukhti is liberation. Liberation with super -cosmic energy that we all came from. Liberation with Guru Nanak Dev Nirankar.

2. After mukhti soul becomes one with vahiguroo. Just like how pot with water in it breaks in while floatin on a ocean. What happens next? Water in the pot merges with water in the ocean and become one... then you wont be able to find any difference.....you merge with that Ikongkar.

3. Yes.

4. See the Mehtab Sian Post. :D

Also i would like to ponder opon term "Jivan Mukhti". In sikhi we beleif we dont have to be dead to get mukhti we can mukhti while living our lives..which is called - Jivan Mukhti... Jivan Mukhti comes with prema bhakt towards Guru Nanak Dev Nirankar/Atam Dev . And that prema bhakti leads to Jivan Mukhti !

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But then why does Kabeer ji not want mukti if its same as being in Akaal Purakh's charan...I am confused!!

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But then why does Kabeer ji not want mukti if its same as being in Akaal Purakh's charan...I am confused!!

From my understanding.

Bhagat Kabir say that quote in love with his murshad- Bhagat Ramanand...since bhagat ramanand is leen(merge) with bhram(god)...He doesnt need seek mukhti in other ways or doesnt need seek mukhti at all... because mukhti comes automatically after prema bhakti towards Vahiguroo in sargun form.

This is an bariaag type of shabad.

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what he was saying was, i dont seek salvation , i just want to be in love with vaheguruji and doing simran on vaheguruji lotus feet forever

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I am sorry...its my mistake...the shabad is by Guru Arjan Dev Jee and not Bhagat Kabir Jee...

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/Page.asp?Sour...D=2050&Format=2

This Shabad is by Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Dayv Gandhaaree on Pannaa 534

dhaevaga(n)dhhaaree 5 ||

a(n)mrithaa pria bachan thuhaarae ||

ath su(n)dhar manamohan piaarae sabhehoo madhh niraarae ||1|| rehaao ||

raaj n chaaho mukath n chaaho man preeth charan kamalaarae ||

breham mehaes sidhh mun ei(n)dhraa mohi t(h)aakur hee dharasaarae ||1||

dheen dhuaarai aaeiou t(h)aakur saran pariou sa(n)th haarae ||

kahu naanak prabh milae manohar man seethal bigasaarae ||2||3||29||

Dayv-Gandhaaree, Fifth Mehl:

O Beloved, Your Words are Ambrosial Nectar.

O supremely beautiful Enticer, O Beloved, You are among all, and yet distinct from all. ||1||Pause||

I do not seek power, and I do not seek liberation. My mind is in love with Your Lotus Feet.

Brahma, Shiva, the Siddhas, the silent sages and Indra - I seek only the Blessed Vision of my Lord and Master's Darshan. ||1||

I have come, helpless, to Your Door, O Lord Master; I am exhausted - I seek the Sanctuary of the Saints.

Says Nanak, I have met my Enticing Lord God; my mind is cooled and soothed - it blossoms forth in joy. ||2||3||29||

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I beleive each prophet or messenger of god, has his/her own realm.

If they have been good muslims,for e.g, then they shall reap the rewards in the realms of their prophet.

I guess im using logic, because theres references to lord krishnas abode, which, in gurbani, is said to temporary (again true devotees of lord krisha will dwell in his paradise/heaven with him.)

For gursikhs, there is no temporal heaven or hell. Its complete salvation i.e. free from births and deaths. But being a gursikh is easier said than done.

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so our is the hardest path? also, what happens to those hindu's after they have recieved their temporary reward in their Heavan, according to their prophets? Thanks for ur reply btw.

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What happens to people ie. Hindu's or Muslims, who don't desire Mukti as they believe in different things in the hereafter, in terms of Sikhi?

Everyone desires Mukhti....Muslims belive mukhti is in the form of Jannat (heaven) for them there is only one birth, therefore if they do good in ttheir one life then they are sent to paradise i.e Mukhti. But does that mean muslims are not reincarnated?? no, reincarnation is not limited to a religion, but it is the law of Nature as a whole and whoever is a part of tthis nature they are under that law.

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What happens to people ie. Hindu's or Muslims, who don't desire Mukti as they believe in different things in the hereafter, in terms of Sikhi?

People who desires janat, Inder-puri, Shiv-puri, any devi-devta's puri have to come back to earth when their phaul(fruit) gets expired from these purriya's(realms) to work towards oneness with nirankar (Mukhti).

They get dropped after from their temporary janat, puriya's.

Sukhmani Sahib explains this very well.

without oneness with ikOngkar... mukhti cannot be acheived.

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Everyone desires Mukhti....Muslims belive mukhti is in the form of Jannat (heaven) for them there is only one birth, therefore if they do good in ttheir one life then they are sent to paradise i.e Mukhti. But does that mean muslims are not reincarnated?? no, reincarnation is not limited to a religion, but it is the law of Nature as a whole and whoever is a part of tthis nature they are under that law.

Reincarnation is an divine law. Muslims who dont beleive in reincarnation....gets reincarnated in different eastern religions to pursue their spirituality.....I have read cases where muslims, christians were reborn as buddhist, sikhs, hindus and vice versa.

Divine law treat everyone equally so thus, everyone has right to get mukhti... so they get chances to born in different religions/beleifs to increase their spirituality where divinity exist. Everything has an meaning behind it. Always reincarnation and karma are inter-related with each other. One cannot exist with another. They have to be both taken into consideration.

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so our is the hardest path? also, what happens to those hindu's after they have recieved their temporary reward in their Heavan, according to their prophets? Thanks for ur reply btw.

No, "ours is not the hardest path". All paths are just different. Also Hindus believe in reincarnation dubbed samsara, and they have mukhti dubbed moksha. This belief has been around longer than Sikhi I believe. Also buddhists believe in rebirth (not reincarnation) and they as well believe in liberation (their concept is Nirvana, full enlightentment).

What happens to people ie. Hindu's or Muslims, who don't desire Mukti as they believe in different things in the hereafter, in terms of Sikhi?

So these views are not exclusive to Sikhi, in fact Sikhi has been influenced by these thoughts that were around since before the Sikhs.

P.S. The Hindu religion also has "jivan mukhti" (Buddhism included).

Anyone feel free to correct me if I have made a mistake.

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No, "ours is not the hardest path". All paths are just different. Also Hindus believe in reincarnation dubbed samsara, and they have mukhti dubbed moksha. This belief has been around longer than Sikhi I believe. Also buddhists believe in rebirth (not reincarnation) and they as well believe in liberation (their concept is Nirvana, full enlightentment).

So these views are not exclusive to Sikhi, in fact Sikhi has been influenced by these thoughts that were around since before the Sikhs.

P.S. The Hindu religion also has "jivan mukhti" (Buddhism included).

Anyone feel free to correct me if I have made a mistake.

can you please explin more on whatyou said about buddhists believeing in Rebirth not Reincarnation?? I thought they were of the same?

waheguru

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Buddhists believe in rebrith and not reincarcation because beliveing in the latter would imply some sort of soul or thing that gets reincarnated. Buddhists do not believe in the concept of soul or anything within us which is permanent. Hence the use of the word rebirth.

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"so our is the hardest path? "

-I believe that Sikhi may be considered the hardest path b/c it aims the highest and the rules/guidelines for our dharm are stricter than most. It is a difficult thing for many to live within these rules and guidelines in a world of maya. There is little room for comprimise of values etc. Reaching such a lofty goal as sachkhand requires a lot of kamai and nimirta.

However, I also believe it may be easier for us to reach sachkhand b/c the kamai from Gurmantur/Gurbani is not equalled elsewhere. For example, getting into heaven, although not a goal for sikhs, is probably (in my opinion) easier for a devoted sikh than someone who lives by some other dharmas.

Also, I have read that one can only reach the spiritual height of one's Guru, no higher.

Please forgive any mistakes in my post. It is not my intention to offend anyone.

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This Shabad is by Bhagat Trilochan Ji in Raag Gujri on Pannaa 526

goojaree ||

a(n)th kaal jo lashhamee simarai aisee chi(n)thaa mehi jae marai ||

sarap jon val val aoutharai ||1||

aree baaee gobidh naam math beesarai || rehaao ||

a(n)th kaal jo eisathree simarai aisee chi(n)thaa mehi jae marai ||

baesavaa jon val val aoutharai ||2||

a(n)th kaal jo larrikae simarai aisee chi(n)thaa mehi jae marai ||

sookar jon val val aoutharai ||3||

a(n)th kaal jo ma(n)dhar simarai aisee chi(n)thaa mehi jae marai ||

praeth jon val val aoutharai ||4||

a(n)th kaal naaraaein simarai aisee chi(n)thaa mehi jae marai ||

badhath thilochan thae nar mukathaa peetha(n)bar vaa kae ridhai basai ||5||2||

Goojaree:

At the very last moment, one who thinks of wealth, and dies in such thoughts,

shall be reincarnated over and over again, in the form of serpents. ||1||

O sister, do not forget the Name of the Lord of the Universe. ||Pause||

At the very last moment, he who thinks of women, and dies in such thoughts,

shall be reincarnated over and over again as a prostitute. ||2||

At the very last moment, one who thinks of his children, and dies in such thoughts,

shall be reincarnated over and over again as a pig. ||3||

At the very last moment, one who thinks of mansions, and dies in such thoughts,

shall be reincarnated over and over again as a goblin. ||4||

At the very last moment, one who thinks of the Lord, and dies in such thoughts,

says Trilochan, that man shall be liberated; the Lord shall abide in his heart. ||5||2||

Note : I am sure everyone knows, but when Bhagat Jee says "women", he obviously means lust. Just thought I'd point that out before some people here start thinking that the shabad was translated by someone of Afghan origin, or even worse, start dissing Bhagat Jee believing him to be from Afghanistan.

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i feel sorry that people talk about sikhi being the hardest part. these people obviously dont get it.

sikhi is only hard if you are emphasing the wrong aspects of it. if you think its about being superhuman and being awesome then you are missing hte point. you are supposed to not give a (admin-cut) about anything religious and just be chilled ... love ppl and be optimistic .. and live honestly.

watch movies, listen to music .. grow plants .. love life .. enjoy it .. all that stuff isnt bad .. its only bad if you are an idiot religious person who isnt good for anything.

there is no bloody path .. thats a myth to make people feel superior about themselves. sikhi is just one way, and its not the hardest or the best .. it just is.

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watch movies, listen to music .. grow plants .. love life .. enjoy it .. all that stuff isnt bad .. its only bad if you are an idiot religious person who isnt good for anything.

i think what you are saying is that basically live your life and be a good person.

if all that idiot religious stuff isnt important then what is rehit for?!

i tihink your talking rubbish...

rehit is essential for sikhs and without keeping the Gurus rehit you are not even a sikh

Rehit binaa nahi sikh kehaavai

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lol your so misinformed its not even funny

sexy singh said

there is no bloody path

then what is Gurmat...

its a path to live our lives. Its the way of teh Guru...

sexy singh you are preaching but with no justification to your posts...

Show me quotes from Gurbani that back up your ideas or keep your ideas to yourself...

The moderators have stressed that we must provide justification when making statements. Dont think your above that.

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Jassa calm down, you're not a good example of what you preach anyway. Maybe what he's saying is that we shouldnt restrict ourselves to one path, Sikhi is diverse and its followers are unique and diverse in their individuality, its not narrowminded or sectarian like other religious organisations, and who said you cant keep Rehit and grow plants..grow up.

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don't confuse "Khalsa" with "Sikh".

"Rehit bina nahi sikh kehaavai"

"Rehit pyaara mujhko sikh pyaara nahee"

Are these not Bhai Desa Singh ji's words.

(page 1015 of Amrit Kirtan)

"I love the Sikh Rehit; the Sikh himself is not my beloved.

The one who lives the Sikh lifestyle is my Sikh; he is my master and I am his disciple.

Without the Rehit no one can be a Sikh; without the Rehit one will face difficulties at all times.

Without the Rehit he cannot be comfortable at all; that is why a Sikh should be committed to the Rehit."

if you have other evidence which says it is infact the words of the 10th Nanak, please do provide refrences.

-Taken from Pheena's post

rehit is essential for sikhs and without keeping the Gurus rehit you are not even a sikh

Rehit binaa nahi sikh kehaavai

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