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truthseeker546

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  1. Haha
    truthseeker546 got a reaction from Premi in Homosexuality And Sikhism   
    " I don't think homosexuality is normal, it's seems to me" - your free to think as you please, but do your own thoughts and ideas speak for Sikhism and how the SGGS is interpreted? read my response above please about cultural interpretations.

    Vedas - are you Hindu Paapiman? I thought Sikhs only had 3 mains holy books, Adi Granth, Dassam Granth and Sarbloath granth.
    (keeping in mind some only accept the first) didn't know some accepted the Vedas as well.

    Unless your Nirmalass?

    It's fine if you are - but giving an answer from the Vedas would give me a Hindu response on homosexuality. would it not?
  2. Like
    truthseeker546 got a reaction from Koi in Why Sikhi failed to spread   
    My own religion is of no consequence  as I'm not here to preach or convert anyone. I'm here to learn and understand different religions. I'm asking questions about Sikhism to Sikhs, rather than making up my own conclusions.
    Islam is the fastest growing religion is Europe as mentioned by Amardeep. Please refer to his posts as they seem better thought out  than yours.
     
    I've put some videos of other religious chanting Gods name:
    Hindu / jainism / Bhuddism 
     
    Buddhist:
     
    Christian:
    Being the largest religion in the world, Christians have the most diverse forms of chanting/saying Jesus's name: I won't paste all the different forms; here is just one:
     
    Muslim
    Like Christianity , Islam being such a large religion has so many different forms of "Zikr" remembrance of God, I'll post one here :
     
     
     
    Judaism
     
    Hare Krishna / Hinduism 
     
    I hope this helps. 
  3. Like
    truthseeker546 reacted to amardeep in Gurus and nepotism   
    I think there were practical reasons for mainting the gurgaddi within the family also.
    The early Gurus set the example that virtue is always above blood relations. It does'nt matter what family ,caste or lineage you belong to - what makes you worthy of Guruship and leadership is your personal virtues.
    The early gurus set examples of this by choosing non-family members as their successors.
    This fine principle however started leading to practical issues due to the politcal laws around in India.
    When Guru Nanak bestowed Guruship to Guru Angad he handed him a pothi and some coins. This symbolised a transfer in power in terms of spirituality as well as the practical affairs of the community. Baba Sri Chand was outraged that he was not given the gaddi and due to the Mughal laws of the time  - which state that a son will inherit his fathers possesions - it was only a matter of time before Guru Angad had to leave Kartarpur Sahib and hand it over to Baba Sri Chand. As the son of Guru Nanak he had a legitimate right to the city in the eyes of the Mughal authorities. This meant that Guru Arjan had to start from zero and build a new city - khadoor sahib - from where power, revenues etc would be extracted.
    Likewise Guru Amardas had to leave Khadur Sahib due to Guru Angad's sons making claims to the gaddi and community .
    This kept happening over and over again. Around Guru Arjan's time we start seeing a consolidation of power within his lineage (starting as early as Guru Ram Das though) and from there onwards the gaddi was kept within the family.
    The nakli "Gurus" of the later period were not as strong or established as the early nakli gurus were. This was due to many of the later nakli Gurus not having any financial basis/cities from where they could extract revenues. These were already and by large in the hands of the real Gurus.
     
    So in short - The early Gurus set the example that virtue is always stronger than blood. As the example had already been set early on there was no need for the later Gurus to keep emphazising this philosophy with all the problems that it kept giving in practice. At the time of Guru Arjan it was vital for the community to be consolidated rather than spending too much time arguing over who is the real Guru.
  4. Like
    truthseeker546 reacted to Jamuka in Evangelism taking worrying proportions in Punjab!!!!!!!   
    Hi Singh47 I don't know if this artivle may help but I too believe that the Hindu religion is a myth. Don't you think it's kinda starnge that nowhere is the word 'Hindu' mentioned in any of the Rig Veda, Bhagavad Gita and other 'Hindu' literature? BTW Southern Hinduism (Tamil) is not recognised by the Northerners ie Muniswaran worship, carrying of 'Kavadi'...

    Here is the article...

    The English Invention of Hinduism

    Non-Existence of Hinduism Before 1830

    Hinduism did not exist before 1830. It was created by the English colonialsts in the 1830s. This remarkable circumstance is evidenced by the fact that none of the travellers who visited India before English rule used the word `Hindu' or 'Sanatana'. This is amply borne out by the Encyclopedia Britannica, which states :

    " The term Hinduism ... [ was ] introduced in about 1830 by British writers. "
    -- [ EB 20 `Hinduism ' 519 ]

    In other words, the founding father of 'Hinduism' is an Englishman ! Nowhere in the Vedas, Puranas or any other religious text prior to 1830 AD are the terms `Hindu' or `Sanatana Dharma' used. Not a single inscription contains the terms `Hindu' or `Sanatana' prior to the Muslim era. The myth that Hinduism or Sanatana Dharma existed prior to this has been discarded in many theological circles, and the fantasy that Santana Dharma is `One Religion' has been abandoned -

    " The term "Hindusthan" was first used by a 12th century AD Afghan dynasty of Muhammad Ghori who dubbed his new subjects "Hindus". Prior to this era, no one in any region of South Asia had ever used these terms to define themselves."
    There is no mention of either of these terms in "ancient Brahmanical books (the oldest of which do not predate the 11th century; also the oldest "Brahmanical" temples are all post Buddhist, after 8-9th century A.D.). Ironically, two of the three core concepts of the Poorbia Brahmanist imperialistic program of "Hindu and Hindusthan" are borrowed from post-12th century Muslim (Afghan and Mogul) regimes." --[ Khals ]

    In recent years has arisen the movement for a revival of Dravidian religion. Two of the main proponents of this movement have exploded the fallacy of the `Sanatana Dharma' concept invented by a European-Smarta-Brahmin conspiracy as follows -

    " We are cognizant of the fact that the term 'Hindu religion' can not be found before the arrival of the Europeans in India. We are also aware of the fact that it was the Europeans who coined the term 'Hindu religion' to denote the Indian religions that were originated in India and followed by the Indians.

    Since the term 'Hindu religion' denotes all the religions of India together, it cannot refer to any particular religion. And since the term 'Hindu religion' consists of many religions which have different doctrines and are contrary to each other, there will be leaders for each religion and there cannot be a common leader for all the religions since they are controversial to each other.

    For instance, how can there be a common leader for both Buddhism and Saivism, which are contrary to each other. Hence the belief that there is a common leader for Hindu religion is superstitious and displays ignorance. Hence, the statement that 'The Brahmins are the leaders of Hindu religion' exhibits ignorance and deceptive. "
    [ Deva ]

    Indeed, the Aryan race of Brahmins were never the leaders of any of the religions of Dravidian religion, Kolarian religion, Buddhism or Jainism. They were only the leaders of the 6 orthodox schools of Brahmanism, which includes Vedism and Vaishnavism -

    " History reveals that the Europeans coined the term Hindu religion and saw nothing wrong in doing so. "
    -- [ Dev ]

    Hinduism is hence an invention of the Europeans, nothing more and nothing less. It should more properly be subdivided into the religions of Brahmanism and Shaivism, Shaktism, Tantrism and Saurism.

    Greeks and Indian Religions

    The Aryans referred to the region now known as 'Punjab' (Persian `Land of 5 Rivers'), as 'Sapta Sindhu'. In Old Achaemenid Persian this became 'Hapta Hindwa', and 'Hindwa' then meant `Inhabitant of the Indus', completely without religious significance. In Greek 'Hindwa' became 'Indoi' (Indian), whence the Latin 'Indus' river and 'India'. The Greeks expanded the meaning of India to include the entire subcontinent. It was never used to denote any religion in Greek or Latin. The Greeks never used the word 'Hindu', nor did the Romans.

    Arabs and 42 Indian Religions

    In Old Persian `Hindwa' denoted only the 'Region around the Indus River' and not the whole of India. In Pahlavi or Middle Persian this developed into 'Hindustan' (The Land of the Indus) but still denoted only the region around the Indus river. It was later Sanskritised to 'Hindusthan'. This meaning was later distorted to denote 'Land of Hindus'. In recent years the terms 'Dravida Nadu' or 'Dravidistan' and 'Dalitstan' have been coined to denote the regions where Dravidoids and Dalits respectively are a majority. 'Sudra Nadu' or `Sudrastan' has developed as an umbrella term for Dravidistan and Dalitstan. A full one-third of all Negroes in the world inhabit this Sudrastan, and Pan-Negroism has played a considerable role in the spread of this movement.

    The Arabs adopted the Old Persian 'Hindwa' as 'Hind' (India) and 'Hindwi' (Indian). Neither of these words were used as applying to any religion; they were purely geographical and national terms. None of the medieval Arab travellers was aware of one single monolithic faith being practiced. In fact, all the Arab travellers referred to the Indians as practicing 42 different religions :

    " Ibn Khurdaba has described that in India there are 42 religions. Al Idrisi also observes that 'Among the principal nations of India there are 42 sects. Some recognise the existence of a creator, but not of prophets, while others deny the existence of both. Some acknowledge the intercesory powers of graven stones, and others worship holy stones, on which butter and oil is poured. Some pay adoration to fire, and cast themselves into the flame. Others adore the sun and consider it the creator and director of the world. Some worship trees; others pay adoration to serpents, which they keep in stables, and feed as well as they can. deeming this to be a meritous work. Lastly, there are some who give themselves no trouble about any kind of devotion, and deny everything." ' --[ Arab.p.57 ].

    Al Idrisi's description of Indian religions given above presents a clear description of the many different faiths practiced in India. He has accurately described the existence of Sun-worshippers (Rajput Sauras) and Atheists (Carvakas) as separate religions. None of the Arab travellers was aware of there being only one religion in India. This proves that `Sanatana Dharma' did not exist at that time.

    Some of the Arab travellers even increased the number of Indian religions to 48:

    " The Jamiu-l Hikayat increases the number of religions in India to 48 "--[ Arab.57.n1 ]

    An exhaustive treatment of the Indian religions is given later on. To summarize, in the words of the Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, " The word [ Hindu ] was never used in Indian literature or scriptures before the advent of Muslims to India " [ ERE.6.699 ], cf. also [ Tirtha.p.vii ]. If at all it was used in a racial sense, " the Muslim rulers used the term 'Hindu' [ correctly `Hindooi' ] to mean Indian non-Muslims only." [ Basic ]

    The traveller Qazwini has also described the various different religions prevalent in ancient India, clearly mentioning Brahmanism as a separate religion :

    " Qazwini (1203 AD - 1280 AD) says that there are various sects among the people of Hind. Some believe in the creator, but not the propher. They are the Brahmans. There are some who believe in neither. There are some who worship idols, some the moon and some other, fire." --[ Nain.230 ]

    Asokan inscriptions also contain the term `brahmana va sramana', indicating a fundamental distinction between the Brahminists, followers of the 6 orthodox schools of Brahmanism, and the Sramanas or `nastika' heretics. Qazwini correctly describes Brahmanism as accepting a creator - God, something which the Sramanas do not do. Qazwini's "there are some who believe in neither" almost definitely refers to these nastiks (Jains, Buddhists, Atheists). Yet another traveller Abul Faaj (988 AD) mentioned the sects of India, and was completely unaware of the existance of `One Religion':

    " al-Dinikitiya - These are worshippers of the Sun. They have an idol placed upon a cart supported by 4 horses. They believe that the Sun is the king of the angels deserving worship and adoration. They prosrate themselves before this idol, walk round it with incense, playing the lute and other musical instruments .. " [ Nain.228 ] .
    " al-Jandrihkriya " [ Chandra + kranti ] " They are worshippers of the moon. They say that the moon is one of the angels deserving honour and adoration. Their custom is to set up an idol, to represent it, on a carrt drawn by 4 ducks. In the head of this idol is a gem called jandarkit" [ Nain.229 ] [ jandarkit is moonstone, "said to emit moisture when placed in the moonlight, and believed by some to be a congelation of the moon's rays." Nain.229.n3 ] " Anshaniyya " [ Sans. Anasana - fasting ] " those who abstain from food and drink " [ Nain.230 ]

    " Bakrantiniya are those who fetter their bodies with iron. Their practice is to shave off hair and beard and not to cover the body except for the private parts. It is not their custom to teach or speak with anyone apart from those of their religion." [ Nain.230 ]
    " Kangayatra [ Gangayatra ] " scattered throughout Hind. Their belief is that, if a man commits a grave sin, he must travel to the Ganges [ and ] ... wash [in it]" [Nain.230 ]

    " Rahmarniyya [ Raja + Tam. manam = honour, self-respect; rajapimani = supporters of the king ] They say, "God, exalted be He, made them kings. If we are slain in the service of kings, we reach paradise." [ Nain.230 ]

    " There is another sect whose practice is to grow long hair." do not drink wine, ... temple on hill called hawran [ Nain.230 ]
    Hence, there existed at the time of the Arabs several distinct religions. This is simply because `Hinduism' or `Sanatana Dharma' had not yet been invented by the Europeans. Like many aspects of early Indology, the concept of `Hinduism' was overly simplistic and utterly baseless.

    According to Jawaharlal Nehru, the earliest reference to the word 'Hindu' can be traced to a Tantrik book of the eighth century C.E., where the word means a people, and not the followers of a particular religion. The use of the word 'Hindu' in connection with a particular religion is of a very late occurrence [ Nehru, p.74-75 ].

    Portuguese and Gentoos

    The Portuguese never even used the word 'Hindu' or `Santana' or any of the variants to denote any Indian religion, proving that Hinduism, did not exist as a concept at the time of the Portuguese. Instead, they referred to the `Hindus' as `Gentoos'. Portuguese dictionaries give the following definition of `Gentoo':

    Gentio (Hindu, gentile, a heathen, pagan)
    + applied by the Portuguese to the Hindus in contradistinction to the Mouros, or Moors ie. Mohammedans. [ Asia, p.167-168 ]
    + Anglo-Ind. `gentoo', Konk. jintu
    Gentilico (`the language of the Hindus')
    + `em gentilico' in the Hindu or vernacular langauge
    + still applied to the Telugu language
    The word `Gentoo' still survives in usage, and is applied to the Telugus:

    " The word `gentoo' is used at the present time only in Madras of the Telugu-speaking Hindus and their language." --[ Asia, p.168 ]

    Duarte Barbosa

    As an illustration of the fact that Sanatana Dharma did not exist at the time of the Portuguese, a few quotations from Duarte Barbosa, a Portuguese traveller who visited India, are given. The Indians are always referred to as `Gentoos':

    " And before this kingdom of Guzerate fell into the hands of the Moors, a certain race of Gentios whom the Moors called Resbutos dwelt therein."
    [ Duarte Barbosa, ed. Dames, Vol. I, p.109 cited in Asia, p.167.n3 ]
    " And in this kingdom there is another sort of Gentio whom they call Baneanes."
    [ Duarte Barbosa, ed. Dames Vol. I, p.109 in Asia, p.167.n4 ]
    Contemporary Documents
    Documents from the early modern period also do not mention `Sanatanis'; they only mention `Gentoos':

    " The Originall of this Petition (to Charles II) ... is signed by 225 of the principalest inhabitants of this Island, viz.
    123: Christians and
    84: Gentuis
    18: Moores "
    -- [ `Anglo-Portuguese Negotiations relating to Bombay 1660-1677' (OUP) by S.A.Khan, p.453 ]

    Another term used by Europeans as applying to the followers of Native Indian Religions was `Banian'. " The early European travellers applied the term [ Banian ] to the followers of the Hindu religion generally " [Asia, p.38 ] The term in fact denotes a Jain trader (from vaniyan Sansk. vanij, trader).

    Creation of Hinduism after 1830 by the English Colonialists

    The Brahmins of India actively collaborated with the English colonialists in their conquest of India. As a result, the English rewarded them by inventing the designation `Leaders of Hinduism' for their loyal servants, their Aryan Brahmin cousins.

    Gentoos & Anglo-Indians

    The English came to India after the Portuguese, and due to the immense cultural influence of the latter, the English also adopted the word Gentoo as applying to any follower of an Indian religion:

    " The first digest of Indian legislation, which was complied under orders of Warren Hastings and published in 1773, has the title `A Code of Gentoo Law'."--[Asia,p.168]

    Yule is led to believe that the English form Gentoo did not come into general use till late in the 17th century. [ Asia.168 ]

    Nor did the early English travellers use the words `Hindu' or `Sanatani', instead they used the Portuguese word `Gentoo':

    " The late scarcity of provisions necessitating us to take some cows from the Jentue inhabitants to supply the fleet... "
    -- [ Forrest, Selections, Home Series, Vol. II, p.31 cited in Asia,p.167.n1 ]
    " The Gentues , the Portugal Idiom for Gentiles, are the Aborigines, who enjoyed their freedom till the Moors or Scythian Tartars .. undermining them, took advantage of their Civil Commotions."
    -- [ Fryer, East India, Hak. Soc. Vol. I, p.81 in Asia, p.167.n1 ]
    Thus the concept of `Hindu' or `Sanatani' as applying to a religion did not exist, nor were any of these terms used by the early English colonialists. Hence, even by the time of the early English colonialists `Hinduism' did not exist.

    Invention of Hinduism by English Census-Compilers

    The English census-compilers were assigned the daunting task of conducting the Indian head-count by the British government. These people were not theologians, and coined the term `Hindu' as a blanket term to encompass several religions. Thus a `Hindu' was defined in the Census as anybody who was not Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, or Jain. It was thus an exclusivist term: Hinduism was defined by what it was not, and not by what it was. It is hence entirely unsuitable as a definition. Later the term Sanatana Dharma was invented to deliberately submerge the English creation of Hinduism. In the words of the Babri Masjid archive [ Basic ] :

    " Finding it difficult to get the names of the religions of these communities, the British writers gave them the word "Hinduism" to be used as a common name for all of their religions in about 1830." --[ Basic citing EB 20:581]

    Indeed, the concept of Hinduism was invented by the English with the ulterior motive of making their loyal servents, the Aryan Brahmins, the rulers of India.

    " The Europeans who came to India in 1498 A.D. for the purpose of establishing trade became the rulers of India. History reveals that the Aryan Brahmins were the supporters and assistants for the Europeans to capture the political power of India and enslave the Indians . It is a political strategy to befriend the traitors within a country in order to get its secrets and capture its political power. " -- [ Dev ]

    All the invasions of India by foreigners were engineered by the Brahmins. They actively collaborated with the Portuguese, helping them to conquer large parts of India. The offices of the Mughal empire were full of Brahmin conspirators. A full one-third of the British Bengal army was Brahmin. Indeed, the answer to the much-asked question, `Why has Indian history been a series of invasions ?' is `The Brahmins engineered them !' -

    " If the history of India is analyzed, it is revealed that the Aryan Brahmins have acted as the traitors through the ages. They also betrayed India to the Europeans. The term Aryans denote the group of people who came to India in different periods without any religion, " --[ Dev ]

    In this connection one need only remember that the Brahmin Canakya engineered the Macedonian invasion of India by Alexander the Great. Through his protege Candragupta Maurya, Canakya lured the Greeks deep into the Punjab. With the troops and mercenaries provided by Alexander, Canakya and Candragupta managed to overthrow the indigenous dynasty of Magadha and succeeded in imposing the first totalitarian state the world had ever seen : the Mauryan Empire. A few decades later, the Bactrian Greeks followed up on Canakya the Brahmin's open invitation, and annexed major parts of India.

    Ulterior Motives in Creation of Hinduism

    The creation of Hinduism, the subsequent formation of Sanatana Dharma and the propagation of these concepts is mainly due to vested interests with the following ulterior motives.

    Reward of Brahmin Collaborators - As shown above, the main motive in the English invention of Hinduism was to reward their Aryan Brahmin collaborators with an imagined leadership of all of Hinduism and by extension, all of India. Such were the services rendered to the British crown that not only were the Brahmins made leaders of India at that time, but the whole of Indian history was completely falsified to portray them as the `eternal rulers of all Hindus'.

    Dravidianism Suppressed - India obtained Independance from Anglo-Brahmin and Brahmin-Portuguese rule in 1947. However, the new state that arose was merely a neo-Brahminist casteocracy. One of the main `threats' to the integrity of the new Aryan Brahmin-ruled republic was the spectre of Dravidian Nationalism. The Sudroids (Dravidoids and Kolarians) represent the original inhabitants of India, who were later subjugated by the Aryan invaders. They form the overwhelming majority in Southern India, and strong demands existed for a separate Dravidian nation. Ambedkar and many others fought for recognition of the Dravidian Religion as separate from the Hindu religion, but M.K.Gandhi foiled these attempts, and succeeded in temporarily subverting the Dravidians in Hinduism. The British were reluctant to recognise the Dravidian religion, since it would have antagonised their Brahmin collaborators. This is one of the prime motives behind the invention of Hinduism.

    Vaishnavite Ambitions - Since the majority of `Hindus' were Brahminist Vaishnavites in any case, it was hoped that Vaishnavism would thus become a synonym for Hinduism, thereby subverting Shavism (Dravidian Religion), Smartism, etc. in one go.
    Christian Missionaries - The creation of Hinduism suited the missionaries who did not have to deal with any Indian theological system. Christianity historically made the greatest inroads in `pagan' (ie. religions lacking a developed sustem of theology) regions, while failing in areas where `devoloped' religions like Islam, Confucianism, etc. By creating Hinduism and submerging thereby Vaishnavism, Jainism, Buddhism, Saurism, etc. into `One Great Pagan Religion' they had to deal with `merely another pagan cult'. Hence, `Hinduism' served the interests of the Christian missionaries.

    English Imperialism - The creation of Hinduism entailed inclusion of the Negroid-Australoid Aboriginal Races of India as `Hindu'. Thus, English dominion in India was justified by claiming that it represented a pious mission to `civilize the pagan natives'.
    Aryanism Suppressed - English colonial rule was justified by the rule of `Whites' over `non-Whites'. Accepting the existence of `Aryans' in India would have meant a nullification of this justification, since a sizeable fraction of India's population would be `white' and would not require `white' Anglo-Saxon rule. The submergence of Indo-Aryans as `Hindus' served to suppress this menace to British rule. The early Arya Samajists realised this attempt to subvert the identitiy of Aryans. and staunchly opposed the use of the word `Hindu'; a move equally opposed by the British. By denying `white' status to Indo-Aryans (a fact since proven by genetics). the English justified rule over `non-whites'.

    Rajputism Suppressed - The Rajputs are descendants of the Scythians, Greeks, and other immigrants who entered India just prior to the rise of the Indo-Islamic Caliphate of Delhi. Throughout their history they followed their Solar religions (`saura' cults), independant of any Aryan Vaishnavite Brahmans. Yet the invention of Hinduism served to subvert Saura religion as well.

    Smarta Subversion - The creation of Hinduism suited the Smartas (Advaitins) most of all, since their religion was defined in terms of giving equal worship to 5 major gods of India, as well as a whole host of others. It remained a very minor religion in India, having been propagated only by Sankaracharya and being localised mainly in Kerala. The overwhelming majority of Hindus were (and still are) Vaishnavites (more than 75 %). However, the definition of `Hinduism' was essentially Smarta, and by propagating `Hinduism' the Smartas hoped to submerge their old rivals the Vaishnavites.

    Noted Sikh author G.S.Khalsa has amply pointed out the manner in which Hinduism was invented :

    " The Brahmanists came to power on the Congress elephant by deviously converting the pre-independence political debate and struggle into a communal Hindu-Muslim religious struggle. This was made possible by the master stroke of Mahatama Gandhi - the Hindu nationalist cum holy sadhu who made "Hindus" a 55% majority on paper in the 1920s upon getting the Dalits or "untouchables" (20%) dubbed as "Hindus" by the British. This coup moved the "Hindus" from 35% to a 55% majority in British India. In pre-independence India, Muslims were 25%, Sikhs/Christians/ Buddhists/ tribals/etc. formed the remaining 20%. This action, along with recognition of Congress as the sole political representative of all Indians in national matters, was a payoff by the British colonial authorities to the Brahmanist lead Congress and Gandhi for loyal services rendered to Queen and empire in supporting their WWI war effort; recruiting the "martial" communities (e.g. Sikhs, Jats, Rajputs, Gujars of Saka-origin) of the northwest and Muslims to go fight for the British Empire in Europe/ middle east; subduing, opposing, infiltrating and sabotaging other non-Congress/non-Brahmanist lead political parties and independence movements organized at home (who saw British weakness during the war as an ideal opportunity). The 55% fraudulent "Hindu pile" was little more than a political game of Brahmanist politicians and political parties in Delhi while caste Hindus would not eat/touch/marry/socialize or even worship with their "polluted" Dalits (20% untouchables) in the 1920s. After this "victory on paper", Brahmanist politicians, political parties, and organizations totally communalized pre-independence politics along "Hindu/Muslim" religious lines of "nationhood" to get on the road to empire and Delhi. " --[ Khals ]

    Indeed, Encyclopedia Britannica accepts that `Hinduism' is a blanket term covering several religions and does not refer to a single religion :

    " Hinduism is both a civilization and a congregation of religions ; it has neither a beginning nor a founder, nor a central authority, hierarchy or organization. Every attempt at a specific definition of Hinduism has prvoed unsatisfactory in one way or antoher." -- [ EB.20 `Hinduism' 519-520 ]

    Hinduism is not a revealed religion and, therefore, has neither a founder nor definite teachings or common system of doctrines [ 7 ]. It has no organization, no dogma or accepted creeds. There is no authority with recognized jurisdiction. A man, therefore, could neglect any one of the prescribed duties of his group and still be regarded as a good Hindu.

    Invention of Sanatana Dharma by Smartas

    Subsequent to the invention of Hinduism the followers of the different Indian religions realised that the word 'Hindu' and 'The Religion of Hinduism' were English inventions. This caused much embarassment, and many Vaishnavites, Shavites etc, declared that they were followers of different religions, which they actually are. Had this process reached its full development, there would have been no problem. However, some Smartas and other vested interests attempted to preserve the superficial unity which the English creation of Hinduism had given. Hence, the English concept of 'Hinduism' was renamed as `Sanatana Dharma' in order to fabricate a Sanskritic name for the concept. The word `Sanatana' was created in sometime in the 19th century as an attempt to replace the foreign word 'Hindu'.

    The non-Muslim people of the South Asian subcontinent called Hindu had no precise word for their religions [ Land ]. They were, as they are, divided into thousands of communities and tribes, each having its own religious beliefs, rituals, modes of worship, etc.

    The Smarta religion arose "by the 7th century, when the Smartas inistituted their worship of 5 deities, omitting Brahma, he had lost all claims as a superior diety. " [ EB 2.460 ]

    " The people called Hindu have nothing common in their religious affairs. 'Hinduism', therefore, cannot give any precise idea as to what it means. Attempts were made to define the term but could not succeed. " --[ Basic ]

    To summarise, realising that Hinduism was in fact an English invention; this circumstance becoming widely known and the cause of much satire on `Hinduism' and its English invention, the Brahmin Vaishnavas invented the term `Sanatana Dharma' in order to counter these difficulties :

    " Faced with this dilemma, Hindu scholars sometime use the word Sanatan Dharma (eternal religion) and sometime Vedic Dharma (religion of the Veda), etc. for their religion. But as names of their religion, these words are also untenable as they do not imply anything precise for all the people called Hindu." --[ Basic ]
  5. Like
    truthseeker546 got a reaction from jaikaara in Holy Cow !!!   
    Thanks Jaikaara !
    If you don't mind do you have quotes, I can't read Gurumukhi so is it possible to have the English translation also ?
    Uggardanti bani of Guru Gobindsingh, is this in the Dassam granth ?
  6. Like
    truthseeker546 got a reaction from jaikaara in Muslims protecting Guru Granth sahib   
    Thanks kdsingh8 ... I would on anther occasion give a detail response, but considering I started this tread in support of the Muslim-Sikh friendship in a time where Sikhs are being prosecuted by the Indian government, its maybe not the best thread to debate history.
    According to your own source you provided it states : " During the partition of 1947, when there were mass killings of Sikhs and Muslims in villages across the Punjab only Malerkotla saw no instances of such communal violence. Sikhs in anger over the loss of their loved ones murdered many of the Muslim villagers in the neighboring villages." - so Sikhs did kill Muslims but according to this not in this city.
    The Sikh killing of Muslim in Malerkotla happened during 1872, I believe Guru Ram Singh was involved in the incident, (the 12th Guru according to the Namdhari Sikh sect), the killers were apprehended by the British and Cowan had the killers executed by Canon fire - he also exiled Ram Singh from India - most Namdhari still believe he will one day return and reunite India under Sikhism.
    The incident is recorded by many historians, most notably by Sir Henry Cotton. Book titled :  Indian and Home memories.


    I understand this can be very problematic for many Sikhs on a number of levels: 
    1) The normal narrative of Sikhs being the  oppressed is ironically reversed, - Sikhs end up having the same issues as  other religions have - religious extremism.
    2) It also proves the conflict within Sikhism, the dichotomy between monotheism and polytheism. The sacredness of the cow proves that at least some sects/gurus had more affinity with Hindu beliefs. This obviously disproves Sikhism as a autonomous and individual religion.
    There are other historical events of Sikhs fighting to defend cows. 
     
     
  7. Like
    truthseeker546 got a reaction from Harbans Singh in Masand Story Is Been Used As Precedence For Panthic Policiing   
    I understand N30 Singh. since you hear now can you open my other post Gurus and Gods please. I opened the post and it was closed due to other people arguing on it.

    Yes I understand that for Sikhs its the living Guru, I'm fine with that and I respect that. I would never disrespect any religious book. I'd question it but not disrespect anyone's faith.

    My questions which you nicely avoided were :

    Q1 - If Sikhs believe the SGGS is the last living Guru, then does burning it harm the Guru or God? Say if a non Sikh like me has a copy of the SGGS, then say the copy of the SGGS is old and tattered. I put it into the paper recycling basket, the book gets recycled. Is that harmful to God? or disrespectful to Sikhs?

    Q2 - If a non Sikh country like say France that values freedom of speech, and often goes out of its way to mock religions and religious figures was to burn or disrespect SGGS, what would the Sikh response in the west be ?Would you want to kill the people behind the insult. I'm not going to judge anyone, just understanding something - so no need for political answers.
  8. Like
    truthseeker546 got a reaction from singh1800 in Recurring Problems With Reincarnation   
    I have some questions on the concept of reincarnation. My knowledge on reincarnation is mainly from Buddhism and Hinduism, this may not be accurate when it comes to Sikhism, so I'll ask some questions that I found to be problematic with the aforementioned religions and maybe with Sikhism.

    1) If one does not remember his/her past life, then how is reincarnation fair/just as a system of purification of the soul. A person does not know what mistakes they made so they can correct them.

    2) Animals (maybe natural objects ie. rocks???) have souls that move up to higher forms, ending up as human beings. How do these animals become "good" in order to move up this hierarchy? What makes a good/bad rock, or a whale worthy so it deserves to become human.

    2b) And also can animals/inanimate objects make concious decisions that justify them being human?

    3) If all souls were created at the beginning, some ended up as animals, some as humans ? on what criteria were some given a head start by being the higher form?

    4) It's a scientific fact that the human race is increasing in size due to modern medicines, and governance. The human population has gone from less then 200 million to over 7 billion in the last 2 centuries alone. Does this mean Sikhs believe a lot of animals suddenly became good and turned to human beings?

    4b) Also as human beings progress to higher forms, shouldn't that mean the human population should be getting less? not increasing? If you say well most humans are not achieving a higher form, then surely the animal kingdom should be drastically increasing, but more and more animals are becoming extict, there numbers are decreasing also, over fishing, global warming, poaching etc.

    5) once a human being is "good" enough to move to a higher form, then what happens to his/her soul in Sikhism?

    6) Is it only via Sikki that a soul can reach the higher form? or can someone following a different religion achieve this? If a good Muslim, Hindu, Christian can achieve this higher form of the soul, then whats the point of Sikki? If they can't then what about all those people that were there before Guru Nanak. After all Sikhism has only been around for about 700 years, humans existence is over thousands of years old.

    That's all for now. Thanks
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