MysticMonist

I am not yet knowledgeable enough about the Sikh faith to comment on why your specific faith isn't more numerous. But Bahais face the same problem about 7 million world wide. If Baha'ism is the new revelation for our time, it hasn't seem to caught on!!
I spent most of my life seeking a deeper path of faith. What I've found is that there are lots of religious people. Yet, with so many it is only surface deep. There are many who just uncritically accept the faith of their parents and community. Many are unaware, in any real way, of faiths outside their own. True, deep mystical faith is rare.
I spoke with this about a Rabbi once and I talked to him about seeking God's Holiness. I said well doesn't everyone? What I meant isn't everyone trying to be a good person, don't most people believe in some higher power. The Rabbi said "No, most people don't seek it". I think the Rabbi's right. Not many give up everything to seek God.
So census numbers doesn't prove one's truth of revelation. God is present to all of us, I think. Yet, only a few are called deeper to Him. It's a mystery. Living in a Bible belt town in the American south, I'm one of the few mystics I know. Praying multiple times a day and studying scripturers for myself is rare. We shouldn't compare ourselves to the majority.
I don't know if that was reassuring or not. We seek to serve and love God. I don't care about our census results!
 
 

I am not yet knowledgeable enough about the Sikh faith to comment on why your specific faith isn't more numerous. But Bahais face the same problem about 7 million world wide. If Baha'ism is the new revelation for our time, it hasn't seem to caught on!!
I spent most of my life seeking a deeper path of faith. What I've found is that there are lots of religious people. Yet, with so many it is only surface deep. There are many who just uncritically accept the faith of their parents and community. Many are unaware, in any real way, of faiths outside their own. True, deep mystical faith is rare.
I spoke with this about a Rabbi once and I talked to him about seeking God's Holiness. I said well doesn't everyone? What I meant isn't everyone trying to be a good person, don't most people believe in some higher power. The Rabbi said "No, most people don't seek it". I think the Rabbi's right. Not many give up everything to seek God.
So census numbers doesn't prove one's truth of revelation. God is present to all of us, I think. Yet, only a few are called deeper to Him. It's a mystery. Living in a Bible belt town in the American south, I'm one of the few mystics I know. Praying multiple times a day and studying scripturers for myself is rare. We shouldn't compare ourselves to the majority.
I don't know if that was reassuring or not. We seek to serve and love God. I don't care about our census results!
 
 

I think any religion or doctrine which puts limit on god's messengers or message and claim full ownership seems to limit god itself. If god is infinite so it's creation and elemental play.

I found this article
http://www.realsikhism.com/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1248368191&ucat=7
I loved this "There are no religions beyond this world. Sikhism states that just because you belong to a religion does not mean anything. God is not limited to just one religion. Belonging to one religion will not help you attain salvation, you have to purify yourself by becoming a true moral person, help others, meditate on God, and love Him to be One with Him."
I really love the Sikh scripture as well.
 
 

Hi!
I was looking for a Sikh forum and this seems like a nice community. I'm a 35 year old father of 2 boys and I live in Virginia in the USA. I've studied religions for sometime, spending some time as a Christain, then Zen Buddhist, the Hassidic Judaism and currently I am Baha'i and also a Platonist.
I'd love to discuss some of the aspects of Sikh theology particularly the unity of God and our union with the Divine.
On one of our Baha'i chats the Sikhs came up. We had nothing but good things to say and the group felt we should get to know one another. So I'm also here on behalf of my fellow online Bahais who send their greetings and prayers.
God is most glorious!
-MM

I hope we can discuss (rather than necessarily debate) in greater detail the theology of the nature of Sikh Gurus and the parallels with Baha'i Divine Manifestations. It's come up several times already in my posts.
I started to try to write an essay about the nature of Divine Messengers but it quickly became very wordy and went in circles. It's difficult to put into percise words such a profound topic.
"The Palace of the Lord God is so beautiful. Within it, there are gems, rubies, pearls and flawless diamonds. A fortress of gold surrounds this Source of Nectar. How can I climb up to the Fortress without a ladder? By meditating on the Lord, through the Guru, I am blessed and exalted. The Guru is the Ladder, the Guru is the Boat, and the Guru is the Raft to take me to the Lord's Name. The Guru is the Boat to carry me across the world-ocean; the Guru is the Sacred Shrine of Pilgrimage, the Guru is the Holy River. If it pleases Him, I bathe in the Pool of Truth, and become radiant and pure." (Guru Nanak, Sri Rag, pg. 17)
This Sikh quote seems very simmilar to Baha'i teachings.
Baha'i teachings explain that there are throughout time Divine (from God) Manifestions (of Divine Revelation) that act as perfect mirrors to the Divine Light.
On a personal level understanding that God has sent His messengers to all many people in every era thru different faiths was a key that unlocked the essential truth of the diverse faiths. I find that the numerous scripturers contain the Voice of God and it's by their study and thru their teachings that I encounter God in more profound way than I could alone.
I believe that the Sikh scripture, the Sri Guru Granath Sahib, is clearly the product of Divine Revelation.
Though I know I'll get no disagreement of that statement here, I'll explain how I know this to be true. I think in discerning truth of revelation it needs to pass two tests:
1. There needs to be an experience of Divine Illumination in receiving the words. For me, I experienced that with the first page of the text.
2. The fruits of the revelation are, for the most part, love of God and love of neighbor rather than the perversion of these loves. Sikhs are well known for their generosity and mild manner and have a long history of benefiting mankind.
I feel I am barely scratching the surface with this discussion, so I'd welcome your thoughts and wisdom.
God is most glorious!
-MM
 

I think they both emanate the same truth 

I hope we can discuss (rather than necessarily debate) in greater detail the theology of the nature of Sikh Gurus and the parallels with Baha'i Divine Manifestations. It's come up several times already in my posts.
I started to try to write an essay about the nature of Divine Messengers but it quickly became very wordy and went in circles. It's difficult to put into percise words such a profound topic.
"The Palace of the Lord God is so beautiful. Within it, there are gems, rubies, pearls and flawless diamonds. A fortress of gold surrounds this Source of Nectar. How can I climb up to the Fortress without a ladder? By meditating on the Lord, through the Guru, I am blessed and exalted. The Guru is the Ladder, the Guru is the Boat, and the Guru is the Raft to take me to the Lord's Name. The Guru is the Boat to carry me across the world-ocean; the Guru is the Sacred Shrine of Pilgrimage, the Guru is the Holy River. If it pleases Him, I bathe in the Pool of Truth, and become radiant and pure." (Guru Nanak, Sri Rag, pg. 17)
This Sikh quote seems very simmilar to Baha'i teachings.
Baha'i teachings explain that there are throughout time Divine (from God) Manifestions (of Divine Revelation) that act as perfect mirrors to the Divine Light.
On a personal level understanding that God has sent His messengers to all many people in every era thru different faiths was a key that unlocked the essential truth of the diverse faiths. I find that the numerous scripturers contain the Voice of God and it's by their study and thru their teachings that I encounter God in more profound way than I could alone.
I believe that the Sikh scripture, the Sri Guru Granath Sahib, is clearly the product of Divine Revelation.
Though I know I'll get no disagreement of that statement here, I'll explain how I know this to be true. I think in discerning truth of revelation it needs to pass two tests:
1. There needs to be an experience of Divine Illumination in receiving the words. For me, I experienced that with the first page of the text.
2. The fruits of the revelation are, for the most part, love of God and love of neighbor rather than the perversion of these loves. Sikhs are well known for their generosity and mild manner and have a long history of benefiting mankind.
I feel I am barely scratching the surface with this discussion, so I'd welcome your thoughts and wisdom.
God is most glorious!
-MM
 

Nice, honorable and noble work to help out most needy

Sikhi is not a religion in a modern sense. Many people in history have belonged to other religions (hinduism and islam) and at the same time taken inspiration from the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib in their everyday life. In many ways, Sikhism contributes to a greater understanding of other religions. I have a Muslim friend that said he understood Islam better by reading about Sikhism

I've replaced my obligatory reading of Baha'i texts with the SGGS. I definitely agree.

I've replaced my obligatory reading of Baha'i texts with the SGGS. I definitely agree.

God just needs true worship wjich comes from deep down from the heart, not false pretending worshIp.

Its a philosophy. Plato is a Greek philosopher who taught that physical world is but a shadow of an ideal, higher realm. He believes in one Absolute source of truth and beauty, which he calls God. Our happiness lies in practicing virtue. 
I'm also a big fan of Plotinus and the neoplatonists. They heavily influenced Christanity, Islam and Kabbalah.
I don't know if any of you are into western philosophy at all. Plato is pretty much the father of philosophy in the west.

I read that Sikhs do not believe in prophets. The role of the Guru is obviously very important to you. I think that this is a much deeper topic and the role of Divine Messengers is a key part of my personal faith and I'd love to dig deeper on another thread perhaps. It's a very profound subject.
I appreciate your continued insistence on not wanting to be offensive. I should state the same. I have deep respect for the Sikh faith and I'm on the forum because I have fallen in love with the Guru Granath. Anything I might say thats offensive is due to my ignorance.

That's a wonderful passage.
It reminds of the Zen parable of the finger (teaching) pointing to the moon (enlightenment/God) which maybe what you are referencing.
It also reminds me of one of my favorite passages from the Hebrew prophet Amos
"“I hate, I despise your religious festivals;
    your assemblies are a stench to me.
22 Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings,
    I will not accept them.
Though you bring choice fellowship offerings,
    I will have no regard for them.
23 Away with the noise of your songs!
    I will not listen to the music of your harps.
24 But let justice roll on like a river,
    righteousness like a never-failing stream!"
Amos 5:21-24
 
 

This is a more beautiful response than before, thank you!
"souls are like rays emanating from the Sun at the early hours of the day, and when night approaches, they merge back into the Sun, thus becoming one with the Sun."
I am familiar with the analogy of the Sun and it's rays. It's one of my favorite descriptions of God. I'm currently reading Plotinus' Enneads. Emanations also play a key role in Kabbalah which I continue to study as my understanding allows. I agree that in a sense that our souls are an emanation of the Divine. Kabbalah talks about the Yud, the divine spark within us that descends from God and it is the purpose of life to return to our Divine Source. I love the idea that our very existence (and the whole world) flows moment by moment from Divine Will. The Kabbalists say that the very fact we exist is proof that we still have a purpose, otherwise God would take us out of life in an instant. So that's why I am a "monist", I believe in one Source of all reality, truth and goodness. Since I mentioned Kabbalah, which is frequently misunderstood, I think the real "magic" of Kabbalah is the commandments of loving God and loving neighbor. Essentially this is core of all religions.
I loved the rest of the post too. I can get too wordy so I'll just simply say it was well put and we'll explained. Thank you.
As for whether this returning to God is a reintergration of our being with Divine Being like drops to the ocean or whether it is a returning home of a beloved servant, not equal to my Master, or both is beyond my ability to know. I'll have to take your word for it and more importantly put my faith in God that He will guide me arightly. As your scripture says
"Hearing of His Greatness, everyone calls Him Great, But just how Great His Greatness is-this is known only to those who have seen Him. His Value cannot be estimated; He cannot be described. Those who describe You, Lord, remain immersed and absorbed in You." Ang 9.
I posted this statement on the Sihk philosophy forum as well, but I wanted to share it with you as studying the Guru Granath has had a big effect one me:
By the way, traditionally Bahais don't recognize Guru Nanak as a "divine Manifestation" for several reasons. But I've become persuaded that this narrow view is mistaken. No one has a monopoly on God.
Blessings to you,
MM
 
 

Unfortunately I only speak English. I'm slowly learning Hebrew.
I won't be offended at all. My family is Christain. I am interested in all religions. I do belong to a local and an online Baha'i community, but I'm more of a Platonist than anything else. 

Its a philosophy. Plato is a Greek philosopher who taught that physical world is but a shadow of an ideal, higher realm. He believes in one Absolute source of truth and beauty, which he calls God. Our happiness lies in practicing virtue. 
I'm also a big fan of Plotinus and the neoplatonists. They heavily influenced Christanity, Islam and Kabbalah.
I don't know if any of you are into western philosophy at all. Plato is pretty much the father of philosophy in the west.

This is a good question. I (and Plato) don't believe in an independent existence to evil. One way of thinking about it is that evil is the NO to God's YES. It's like darkness to light, it's nothing in and of itself. Plato thinks we choose evil because we mistake the sensory pleasures of the world for our ultimate good and happiness which can only be truly found in virtue (God). I like the Sikh teaching of the five theives from what I understand of it. It's a bit condescending to think people make poor choices because they are simply ignorant. Evil or corrupt desires I believe really do steal away our intentions and love that should be focused on God instead.
This http://www.sikhanswers.com/god-and-his-universe/what-is-the-sikh-view-on-satan-or-the-devil/
makes alot of sense. Bahais also don't believe in Satan per say but that he is a metaphor for the "insistent self".

Virtue and getting closer to God is the basis of all religions.  However evil is the driver. Many people will do good to avoid something evil befalling them.
Good would not exist if evil was not there.  Good is a comparison and a complete opposite of evil. 
Evil is what brings good out I.e. evil had to fall upon Jesus for him to be crucified and gain his glory.
We go to church or to the temple so that we can be saved from evil.
So what does plato say about this relationship between evil and good.
 
 

What is a platonist ?

Veer Ji First of all welcome to the forum on behalf of myself. I would recommend these books which have helped me to gain more understanding of Gurmat as they are in English so i will make a list as they are very good reading material.
Divine Mystic Reflections on Gurmat Book 1 & 2  & The Miracle of Ardaas these books are amazing and they changed my life a lot.
Se Kinehiya By Baba Sewa Singh. This book is amazing journey of Baba Harnam Singh Ji a very good book full of pratical experinces.
 
In search of the true guru. by Bhai Rama Singh Ji i have read bits of online as i don't have a copy. This is a eye opener of one's journey to Sikhi from Hinduism searching for answers.
 
Andhitee Duniya by Bhai Randhir Singh Ji (although i have not read all of it it has very distrubing truths of death and the soul ghosts etc according to gurmat and personal experinces)
 
Anhad Shabad Dasam duaar by Bhai Randhir Singh ji a detalied glimpse of the stages of simran. Although i have read bits not full.
 
Jail Chittiaan and Autobiogrphy of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh. I don't have this book but i read online bits of it it is really good. I have heard how peoples life got changed by reading this book is amazing of how Bhai Randhir SIngh Ji was a Gursikh and his journey from college to jail is a masterpiece.
 
I hope this list helps anyone who is reading this post or topic.
 
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Hi Brother MysticMonist,
I have divided your above post, in 6 main questions which you ask me, in order to answer you at the best of my ability.
1) Nature of the souls, according to Sikhee, is that the essence of the soul and Lord Wahiguru is the same, for if it was not so, the Bani would not say:
Jin har japeeya, se har hoeeya.
Which means, whosoever,meditates on Him, becomes one with Him.
You see, the beauty and excellence of the teachings of the Gurus in the Gurbani, is that, it is a very clear, transparent, a simple language, and direct to the point.  Many a times in a single verse, we can see the spirituality summarized in it, without the need of huge text volumes of mental interpretaions.
There is a beautiful verse from Gurbani which says: Sach Khand vasay Nirankar.  Which means, in the region of Sach Khand,  the region of ultimate Truth, resides only the formless Lord.  So logically, if the soul drop, reaches in that plane of Consciousness, it has to be of the same nature as Him, otherwise it can not merge and become one with Him.
 
2) When you say : Bahai's talk about being enraptured by God with no thoughts of anything but Him.  
It is the same as, when one meditates on Him with focused attention. The thing is, we have to totally loose our Iness, only then, does He exist.  For when we are, He is not, and when He is, we are not. So meditation,  prem bhakti, are the means to dissolve that our ego, our petty individual identity, with which we are so much attached, and we take it as a reality, that is why we are so weak, in our love, in our devotion to Him.
 
3-4) Yes, as said above, our soul is of the same essence of God, but due to our strong association with the mind, we are unable to realize Him within. That is why, our Gurus, the Bhagat Jan, Gurmukhs, Gursikhs, come at our level, in order to remind of our true spiritual nature, and to tell us that all our miseries are due of being separated from our True heavenly Father, call it Wahiguru, God, Nam or Shabad.
Some mystics, have beautifully explained that, souls are like rays emanating from the Sun at the early hours of the day, and when night approaches, they merge back into the Sun, thus becoming one with the Sun.  Now tell me, once  a ray merges into the Sun, can anyone, go and trace that particular ray?
in a similar way, once a soul merges into the Father, there is no distinction at all. For example you pour a drop of water into the Mighty Ocean, can anyone trace it? 
 
5-6) Brother, the reality of Jesus, was not his physical body, but the Light of Nam or Word, that level of pure Consciousness, manifested in that particular body, which is the True power,  which was Christ the Savior.
He clearly said: I and the Father are One, he who has seeth me, has seen the Father.
Now, after 2000 years, if we do not see Christ, does that mean, we can not see the Father, and we are condemned forever?   Of course not,  forJesus is not the body, but rather, it is that Light/Jot, of Nam, Word, Logos, or Shabad, which one sees within, when one meditates on Him, for the Light/Jot of God, is always the same  for ever and ever throughout the ages. Just like our Guru Sahiban, right from Guru Nanak Dev.
In Gurbani we also come to see something similar, when the Guru says: mat koee bharam bhoolay sansaar, bin Satgur, koee na utras paar.  Which means, let no one remain in delusion, without a Satguru, a True genuine guru, no one can cross the creation and reach the other side, means from here our physical level, to that one, where He resides, in Sach Khand, the region of ultimate Truth.
We people, limited beings, tend to take things literally, because of that our limitations, we see the coverings, we see the boxes containers(bodies, sizes, shapes, colors), but not the contents(soul/light), thus our feelings of hatred for others, other races, other religions, and  also our inflated ego.
For if we could only see Him, in all and everywhere, just as His devotees and lovers do, all the conflicts, disputes, wars, tyranny, would come to an end.
Stay blessed.
Sat Sree Akal.
 

Thank you for your lovely response! You put it very well. Indeed, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One.
You mention one of the things I've been trying to discern. So what is the True Nature of our souls? At highest mystical levels, the many scripturers talk about union before God. Bahai's talk about being enraptured by God with no thoughts of anything but Him. Is our "pure soul" God itself and we are just unaware of it? Or is our purity found in submitting to God as a creature fundamentally separate from the Godhead? Does this really matter or is it functionally the same?
I was struggling with this question in terms of Jesus and Christain beliefs about the incarnation. If we are all divine then Jesus' claim is no problem.  Otherwise, we need to say that Jesus is not God. At best, he is only speaking as if he is God, with the Voice of God. Yet in that case he never intended to claim his own divinity.
How would you respond? Who are you and who was/is Jesus?
P.S.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sach_Khand
I think this pretty much answered my question. It is the creature become unified with the Divine not realizing ones inner divine nature, right?