khoj

There's 4 levels of Sunn, from what I gather. The 4th Sunn is the ultimate "sunn samadhi" in which you go directly into Nijh Ghar..Nirankar is in this Primal void PERMANENTLY,  and always was, always will be, but we can only go in and out(since we are jivs in maya)  We can go into chautha padh, ,visit,, and back out again. This is jivan mukhti.  House  of Nanak summary is   Attain Jivan mukhti --> at time of death,  go  DIRECTLY into Sunn Samadh with Akaal Purakh by latching on to NAAM (nanak naam jahaz hai).... Here, you shed ego, identity as you wont need to leave chautha padh again---=>>completely Ik-Mikh....and dissolved.
Yes, some have reported this, but i'm sure it depends on avastha.  Complete manmukhs/paapi.. don't often get second chance unless they were from devi/devte realm prior to birth. 
After my personal NDE and coma, I was aware of all  the people i had hurt in my life. It was a really weird perspective because I perceived it all outside of my own ego. As if i could feel the effect the other parties felt after I had hurt them.   One of the first things i was doing after waking up a month later was, asking forgiveness for these wrongs.  On top of all this, I knew  I was sent back to jap naam because that's what i had begged for prior to birth.   I never japped naam before my accident because no one ever told me and i hadn't got a clue where to begin. I took me a few years to work out what to do and how to get cracking at it. At the same time, I also worked out how to use mind to heal myself from brain and spinal injuries.
 
Yeh, dimethyltryptamine..We had another couple of threads about this some time ago. Naam rus does contain a very small amount of DMT. The shamans in the amazon drink it via ayahuasca, however, they only have divine experience if they are vibrating at higher frequencies. Otherwise, most folks end up having scary trips with jams scaring them and i think it' lower avastha dmt  consumers that could have freaky future and past visions.  I've shared and confirmed experiences with two local dmt users that were quite spiritual and into meditation/yoga.. Their accounts were interesting and it confirmed quite a few things for me.
 
 

Ist level sunn is the dreamless state we all go into.  It is the deep sleep when one's mind disassociates from the physical body.  This same sunn is also the sunn of bhavsagar journey from mool duar to trikuti.
2nd level sunn is Sunn-mandal , bathing in amritsar, Also called sunn sarovar and some other names as well. This sunn is where naad is heard, but maya is still on surrounding  as well.  Abyasees can meet other abyasees in this sunn-mandal. It's also the place of void in space.  Alot of cleansing at this sunn
3rd sunn (anhad sunn) is further from sunn-mandal, when one is completely surrounding by anhad naad.  Maya still present behind. One is at the Dar. One hears the kirtan and bani of devte outside the dar of sacha mahal.  One also sees own jyot in this sunn at the same time. 
4th is Sunn samadhi. The one where gurbani mentions the vision/ darshan of immaculate niranjan. This is where nirankar is permanently. This is sach-khand. It is only accessed after he opens the door. This is the Primal Nirankar void, behind the ong.
 
The layout of darbar sahib also constructs the journey of these sunns. 
 
I have found references to these sunns in gurbani, but they aren't easy to explain.  I can attempt a very slow step by step explanation to the pangtees and shabads, but seriously, without experiencing at least 2nd or 3rd sunn, or hearing raags, .doing sant mandli,  etc..most seekers will find it difficult to digest or understand.  
 

This is an invaluable write up by a Gurmukh on the path of surat shabad marg. Take laha and inspriation from it friends.
 
OUR NIJ GHAR-  THE FOURTH SUNN
Our mind thinks incessantly and does not hold still even for an instant. Under all sorts of distractions it wanders aimlessly in all directions. Only after finding a perfect Guru thru good fortune, who gives mantra of Lord's Name (for japna) that mind becomes quiet and tranquil:
"Eh mun na tikay bauhrangee deh dis dhavay.
Gur poora paaia vadbhagee Har Mantar deea mun thadhay" p-171
This is what Naam Japna does to a wandering mind. It tries to make it still, till it stops thinking when it is lured into the 'dhun' of the japna and comes inside where it is totally disconnected from the input of the five sense organs. It becomes totally thoughtless, a condition called 'sunn' in Gurbani. In this condition mind stops giving any instructions to the body which becomes still and is said to be in 'smadhee'.
It is in this condition the mind is disconnected from world of Maya of three modes and comes in where Naam/ Sabad is. This space where mind comes in is called 'sunn mandal'. Gurbani mentions about sunn many a time, as location of Naam, Satguru and God. Purpose of Naam Japna is to disconnect the mind from Maya and its bad effects in Raj Gun and Tum Gun and clean it up with Naam/ Sabad :"Bhareeay matt papaan kay sung. O dhopay naavay kay rung." Sabad is God's utterance in all the bodies: "Ghat ghat vaajay naad." and cleans the dirt caused by Mayan thoughts:                                                                                                                                      "Mun dhovo sabad laago Har sio raho chit laa-ay."p-919
   
The inner journey for spiritual development is thru sunn where Naam/Sabad Guru who is also called Satguru in Gurbani, who not only gives spiritual knowledge but also prepares the mind for meeting with Nirankar.
"Sabade he Naaon upjay sabade mail milaaia." p-646
As the mind just enters into sunn it is said to be sitting in FIRST SUNN. When the thoughtless mind in sunn merges with the ambient of the sunn mandal it adopts the nature of air there, the first creation of God, Sach:
"Saachay te pavna bhaiaa." p-19
"Suneh sunn miliaa samdarsi pavan roop ho jaae-geh." p-1103
This  condition of mind in Sunn Mandal when it merges with air is called the SECOND SUNN.
Continuing progress on this journey in sunn, Anhad Sabad, the unstruck divine melodies are heard there. These are the utterances of the Nirankar inside us as Sabad Guru. It is here that mind starts getting cleansed by Sabad/ Naam to prepare for the journey to the goal. This zone in the sunn manadal is called Amritsar or Pool of ambrosial nectar of Naam where mind bathes in it to clean itself:                                                                                                           
"Antar koohnta Amrit bharia" p-570.
This zone is also called  Dev Sathan, the area where devtas, the angels live in three gunas after physical death as they did not reach the Nirankar yet:
"Dev sathany kia nissani.
Teh bajay Sabad anahad banee."p-974
Devtas are stuck here and could not go beyond for not having done enough bhagti to cross over the 'bhavjal sagar'. They don't have to be born again but can't go beyond to unite with Nirankar. And beg God to give them another chance in human body so that they can do more bhagti to crossover to higher level:
"Is dehi ko simray dev.
So dehee bhaj Har kee sev." p-1159
This  state of mind surrounded by Anhad Sabad is called the THIRD SUNN. This is also called 'dhaval', a cross over between Bhavjal Sagar and Nij Ghar. Here mind is with air which it sheds before entering into the next sunn. This is also called 'dar' or doorway to the Sach Mehal/Parkash Mehal, the Mansion of the Divine. It is about this state  Guru Nanak Ji is writing about in 27th Pauri of Jap Ji Sahib, describing the symphony of celestial music going on at the dar or gate of the Sach Ghar where all His creation is singing praises to Him:
"So dar keha so ghar keha jit beh sarab smaalay.
Vaajay naad anake asankha ketay vavanhaary.
Ketay raag paree sio kaheean ketay gavanharay.
Gaavay tohnau paun panee baisantar gavay raja dharan duaaray."p-6              
 
Next step in progress comes when the mind is fully cleansed of the filth of  Maya  and is waiting for the Grace of God to open the Tenth Door to let His child in. This is preceded by sounding of Toor and Naad:
"Anhad Banee  Naad vajaaia."p-375
As the Door opens amidst sounding of Five Sabads, mind is welcome home having conquered five doots of Maya. Mind sheds the air and is illumined with Jot of God and is fully awakened to its spiritual self by the Sabad:
"Dhun upjee Sabad jgaaia" p-1039.
Free from bondage of Maya, mind sees nothing but Parkash or Divine Light/ Jot and finally meets the Beloved Lord:
"Pargati Jot milay Ram Piaray."p-375
This happens with the Grace of the Guru  that one meets the Lord, finds perfect peace and tranquility with such ease:
"Guru Nanak tutha miliaa Har Raaia.
Sukh raen vihaani sehaj subhhaia."p-375.
This is the area where dwells the perfect Lord Brahm in sunn-smadh and holds discussions with Bhagats. There is no happiness or grief and no death or birth (but absolute tranquility):
"Sun samadh gufa te asan.
Kewal Brahm pooran teh basan.
Bhagat sang Prabh gosht karat.
Taha harakh na sog na janam marat."p-894.
This is the Fourth SUNN and end of mind's journey back to its Nij Ghar and Sehaj Ghar where it can live in perfect bliss and becomes Jiwan Mukat, liberated while alive.
This sunn is also called Anhad Sunn. Those minds who reach this sunn become  just like the One Who created them:
'Anahad sunn rattay se kaisay.
Jistay upjay tishee jaisay." p-943
Sunn prevails inside and outside in all three zones; earth, sky and nether-lands. In fourth sunn mind becomes Gurmukh and its karmas are over and is not judged for these:
"Antar sunan bahar sunnan tri-bhavan sunam sunan:
Chauthai  sunun jo nar jaanai ta ko paap na punnan." p-943
This is the house of the True One as told by the Satguru and is also the true house of His child, mind who is on a physical journey on this planet, Earth:
"Satgur tay paa-ay veechara .
Sunn Samadh Sachay Ghar bara." p-1037
Gurbani guides us how to make it to our true home while alive and become a jeevan-mukat so that at the end of our physical life we land straight into Nijh Ghar and are met with our Father, Nirankar who greets us with a hug, congratulating us for our victory in fight with five-doots of Maya:
"Jo jan Har Prabh Har Har sarna tin dargeh Har Har deh vadiaaee.
Dhan dhan sabaas kahay harjan ko Nanak mel la-ay gal laee." p-493
Gurmukhs thus establish an easy access to Nij Ghar from Bhavjal Sagar via sunn, Anhad Sabad, Toor and back to Bhavjal Sagar for their mundane responsibilities following the same route back.
'Gurmukh aavay jaa-ay nisang." p-932
 
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155685879796417&id=528556416

WaheguruJi
Came across this step by step progressive stages in Bhai Sewa Singh Ji Tarmala book
(1) Swaas  Graas  simran  by  chanting  Gurmantra  to  stop  the thoughts. 
(2) Enter  the  Sunn  (going  to  sleep  to  rest)
(3) Stay  awake  by  dhyaan  when  free  of  thoughts.
(4) The  divine  words  appear  in  Sunn.
(5) Anhad  Bani  (the  divine  music)  appears.
(6) The  mind  enters  the  Sunn  (third  Sunn).
(7) Naad (word of God) appears which will help us cross the Bhavsagar  (the  dangerous  ocean).
(8) The  mind  unites  with  God  in  Sehaj  Ghar. 
From: Forgetting the Way of Love by Bhai Sewa Singh Ji Tarmala page 182

Useful stages explained of how to seperating from pawan. 
1. No thoughts but aware of body
2. Merging into sunn and losing body awareness. Like falling asleep. 
3. No thought's, aware of body and also hear anhad sounds. 
4. Hear anhad sounds but also aware you have lost body attachment i.e sleep and are in sehaj. 

I don’t claim to be of any avastha or spiritual stage. This path of bhagti is never ending. But it’s a path of Bhagti. Of Love. Not avasthas, who’s higher up, what’s higher up. There is no higher or lower. It’s only until you literally put your head on the floor and accept your self as shit as the Gurus themselves accepted themselves as lowly worms, that you start truly loving. I’m by no means perfect at all. I accept myself as shit. I’m just a sinner, we all are without Him. For without Truth, we live in ego, 
 
I wondered around for years in fear etc. it actually took me ages to accept the Truth. I dont usually talk about this stuff because I don’t dwell on visions anymore and I don’t think anyone’s higher or lower for having them, that’s ego. I guess I started accepting everything’s Him when I started having visions, of the Gurus etc, lights, auras, all that stuff. I know a lot of people who have these so no big deal, and doesn’t make anyone great or worse as His creation is Equal, all an extension of Him. 
 
I used to see his shakti, blue lights, everywhere, on and as everything etc, hence realising, it’s all just One, I saw and felt His prescence as Everything, everywhere on everyone in waking life. I knew it was Him as a wife knows their spouse. I first started having those experiences properly when I started doing naam simran at 4am, my third eye seemed to open and then there was no going back. Then the next few years, I started going deep into samadhi, and having experiences. Going deep into the sunn, I realised, it’s All just Him. I felt like my heart was opening to the universe and that it’s all just an extension of Him.
I understood that He has no form or image, that the world is a dream and an illusion, and the reality is Nothing, but a frequency, that can’t be described. His presence. I’ve gone through phases where I’ve had dreams of the Gurus guiding me almost every single night some weeks and too many darshans to count. I know other Sikhs who have had these too, and although I accepted the blessings, I’ve realised not to dwell on them as they’re guiding lights that help lead the way and also Reassurance that we’re on the right path. 
I started understanding that the Dukh and the Sukh, the good and bad, angel, demons are all just Him. I started forgetting, but when I forgot, I’d bring myself to the present moment and remember that it’s All just Him. There is no image or form, the images are Him. I’d apply what I’d learned in my samadhi in real life. It’s just a frequency you vibrate at, like a knowledge you have that brings you to a level where you know it’s Him and can feel it. In reality, it’s just Love, my heart was open to Him. In the good and the bad. Any visions of demons Or ghosts I would have, I’d just start laughing and say God I know it’s just you, and go back to sleep or my business. 
 
I actually realised Love of Truth, As in my heart had expanded to basically its zenith, when I’d pushed all of the visions I used to have constantly in waking life aside, accepted my life and work, and my time on this earth as my Karam for now, and also experienced a lot of Dukhi in life and in my work. One day when things were bad, My heart opened so much, I felt like it had burst, and I realised that all the bad eggs I’d met, the con artists, nindaks etc, and the messed up things that had happened as well as the happiness and the good, had opened my heart to realise that it’s all just Him, love, and that’s when I realised that the path isn’t rocket science, and by no means about where you’re at, for the path is Endless and the Truth discoveries Never End. Its just True Love, In good and bad, accepting this universe as One, that we are One. You can’t properly explain love, you have to feel it, and walking on the straight and narrow path, following gurbani/ being good, taking care of your mind, body, spirit, supporting your own life, naam simran etc is the way to do it. Love has no logic and you have to experience it yourself. He is not some unattainable level you can’t reach. He’s everywhere, He flows through us, and His love for us is Unconditional. He’s everyone and thing we see and all that we don’t. It’s an advanced psychology. He’s not simply accessible to some on the path and others less. That’s what the Gurus tried to tell us. Look around you and remember or apply  it. Gurbani tells us it many times. Talk to Him, ask Him for Guidance yourself. 
 
 

Curiosity can make the mind wander. But without curiosity who has ever found God?

Curiosity is good, you just need to give it a dose of discipline.

Whatever you do in life, do it with a purpose, put your full attention into it and fully embody that activity with every cell in your body.

Suppose you chant Waheguru naam, then you chant with the purpose of going deep into it, you put your full attention towards it, and embody the sounds and meanings of Waheguru naam. You feel those vibrations, you hear those sounds and see many eyes, each sensation drives you deeper and deeper in the essence of Waheguru naam.

Practice it and apply that to all activities in life, and you will notice a big difference in your well-being.

Some relevant passages from the book.
Guru Nanak Dev Ji gives us the example of day and night where he tells that our mind enters this body and begins playing during the day and when our body goes to sleep at night time our mind goes home to Sunn (house of mind). Sunn is the stage in which our body is sleeping (resting) and our minds are in their subtle appearance. When our mind enters this body, we use our earthly knowledge and with our thoughts we assign good and bad qualities to others. By doing this we are foolish. We no longer see Godly qualities of others and in this way we create good and bad thoughts. By creating this discernment we think we have wisdom. And by acquiring material wealth in this world, we think that we are rich and others are poor. We build religious places like Gurdwaras, Temples, Mosques and Churches where we sing praises of God, but we do not recognize real house of Truth that is our body. Our body is the real temple, Gurdwara, Mosque or a Church. This real temple within our body is known as Hari Mandir. Truth resides in the Hari Mandir. He also lives outside our body. By not recognizing God, we start to hate others and attribute no respect for their lives and do not hesitate to behave badly.
At night when we go to sleep, our game in the visible world comes to an end. At this time, we lose our duality and forget about caste, creed, and qualities of others. During sleep, our subtle body comes to reside in the Sehaj Ghar (house of our mind). In the Sehaj Ghar we forget about the material body, our family, our home and society.

This subtle body is our real appearance and our true home. Being able to rise above duality is important so that the mind can
recognize its true home.  
When our mind is in the body, our body stays connected to our breath and we take different thoughts. But, when we sleep our body is still breathing, but we are free from our thoughts. We don’t recognize where our mind goes when we are sleeping. Guru Nanak Dev Ji taught us that the house of our mind is invisible and formless. Those that understood Guru Nanak’s teachings were able to go to their home and leave behind duality. Those minds that were able to go home were able to free themselves from entanglements and were able to achieve happiness and joy in their lives.

Our body is made up of 5 elements and these elements have relation with the body parts and senses. The relation between mind and body is made during day time and is disconnected during night time. At night the mind goes to his house known as Sunn or Agam. Sunn is also known as Sehaj Ghar. In the morning, the mind leaves Sehaj Ghar and enters the body and starts to use the body parts and senses.
divas raat du-ay daa-ee daa-i-aa khaylai sagal jagat.
Day and night are the two nurses, in whose lap all the world is at play.
First, they told us how to connect the body by controlling the pawan through the use of the Gurmantra (chanting the word). When the mind is in control it will go to its house known as Sunn. The mind stays in its home for a period of time and then returns to this world. Most of the people do not know where the house of mind is and where the mind hides.
First, we have to teach the mind through love. If the mind still does not understand , then we have to discipline it with the Gurmantra. Through the Gurmantra the mind will learn to go to Sunn. But after going to its home, the mind will cheat us again by leaving it. We cannot rely on the mind and must learn to control it so that it will hear the Anhad-Bani in the Sunn and receive the refuge of Naam. In Gurbani, we have been given the example of a snake. If you try to capture or kill a snake it escapes by entering a hole in the Earth. We would be wrong to presume the snake is dead if we cover the hole. The snake merely hides and finds a way to exit and comes back again. Like the snake, the mind goes home but keeps finding ways to escape. In this way, the mind continually cheats us by leaving Sunn. Moreover, the mind intentionally acts deaf and does not listen to Naam.
For this reason, during prayer we should try to keep the mind in the body. If the mind stays in the body we can take it to Sunn. Despite their hard work in meditation most members of the congregation cannot control the mind. Those who don’t join the congregation really have no chance of controlling their minds. The reason the mind leaves Sunn is because it takes advice from the five subordinates from Kaal thinking they are his friends. It accepts them as friends and does not want to leave them. In reality, however, they are on the opposite team of the mind. They trick the mind into wasting its precious wealth (breath) in thoughts. Our pain and suffering is caused by our thoughts. When we waste our breath, the mind is devastated. In order to keep the mind away from thoughts, we have to meditate and contemplate on the divine word of God.
We have to repeatedly try to enter the body. We can do this by connecting to the air by meditation using the Swaas Graas simran technique (meditation with every breath) followed by the Rom-Rom (meditate with every heart beat) technique. When our mind enters the air it will also enter the body. If we can keep the mind in the body then we learn about the three qualities of Maya. At this point, the mind will enter the 4th state and the 9 doors of the body will close and the 10th door will open. We must learn to love and contemplate the divine word of God because the mind has been out of control for many ages. We should spend less time talking about this world and more time contemplating the divine word of God. We must learn to contemplate the divine word during all of our activities and not just staying in thoughts.
By meditating and listening to our own voice our mind will stay away from thoughts. Once the mind is free of thoughts it will enter Sunn. With enough guided practice the mind will go to Sunn very quickly. When the mind tries to exit Sunn we must do more meditation to chase it back to its home. Typically the mind begins to dream when it goes to Sunn. However, with guided meditation we will begin to control our thoughts and not enter in dreams thereby staying awake all the time. When the mind cheats us again, we will have to follow the same techniques to search for it.

When Guru Nanak Dev Ji had a discussion with those Sidhas, he told them that you sit in the Sunn and the mind can go out of the Sunn anytime. They were connected to playing music by instruments. Guru Ji told them that their mind was cheating them. Guru Nanak taught them that they should stop listening to music from outside. They should listen to the divine word from inside and get connected to it. He further advised them they should take their mind out of the body with the divine word but not fly their bodies.
Play that harp (inside the body), Yogi, which vibrates the unstruck sound current (Anhad Shabad), and remain lovingly absorbed in God.
(SGGS 908)
Guru Nanak Dev Ji gave the divine knowledge to the Yogis. He told them how their mind cheats them. By doing simran or meditation, the mind goes to Sunn (state of sleep). Once mind goes to Sunn, our body does not move. When the mind enters this body, then our body can move and walk irrespective of its weight. When the mind leaves this body, the body cannot move or walk.
Guru Nanak Dev Ji has told us a way for devotion which is different from other ways. This has been explained in Gurbani as.
tarai gun maytay cha-uthai vartai ayhaa bhagat niraaree.
Eradicating the three qualities of maya, dwell in the fourth state. This is the unparalleled devotional worship.
(SGGS 908 )
When we go out of three qualities of Maya (by stopping thoughts), our mind goes to Sunn (house of mind). While staying in Sunn, we will listen to the divine word of God from which we were disconnected after our birth. When we connect to the divine word, our true devotion starts. It has been explained in Gurbani as.
gurmukh bhagat jit sahj Dhun upjai bin bhagtee mail na jaa-ay.
The Gurmukh practices that devotional worship, by which the celestial music wells up; (SGGS 245)
The mind functions because of the air. Once the mind gets separated from the air and goes to the 10th door also known as Sunn, (house of mind) the air has connection with only the body.
When our mind sits in the Sunn (also known as Thir Ghar, Nij- Mahal, Gagan or Sehaj Gufa) Truth will wake it up by his divine sound.
Dhun upjai sabad jagaa-i-aa.
The celestial melody of the Shabad wakes the mind up. (SGGS 1039)
Sunn Samadh Anhad Tey Naad
In the Deepest Samaadhi (Sunn), and the unstruck sound of the Naad is there. (SGGS 293)

No worries Sat, this is not too unusual....It's your etheric/subtle body that is gaining kundalini potential. The etheric body is made up of energy channels called chi, meridians or nadis. These start getting blocked in all of us from when we detached from the umbilical cord and starting to get our minds enveloped in maya..  The etheric body affects physical body and vice versa.  Just as negative emotions, depressed moods etc. can lead to physical illness symptoms., then in the same way, a significant increase in chi or prana flow, can lead to physical and muscular stimulations. This is exactly how acupuncture works to relieve pain. The needle mapping in this therapy works on the Chinese meridian points- which are the same as nadis. Needling the surface of etheric body meridians results in stimulation and loosening of tight muscles. People wonder why acupuncture is not painful and why there is no bleeding,.....This is because, it is the subtle etheric body being poked, and not the physical.... p.s. " I've been having acupuncture and IMS regularly for a few years"
Anyway, I mentioned the above so that you get and idea about how powerful prana actually is..The muscle rigidity and aligning you experienced is because your erupting etheric energies are telling the physical to "straighten up and let us get through". This is why it is important to maintain good postural alignment for both a spiritual and physical well being.
I always imagine the prana flow and channels as thousands of long tubes running straight up your body. If you look at some human biology books or pictures and see the blood flow in veins, then you will see lots of valves that prevent blood from flowing backwards. I imagine the chi channels being blocked as if these kind of valves are closed shut and preventing flow........So when you felt the physical jolt and muscles aligning, ...it was because the prana was desperate to flow through and upwards along kundalini.. This is exactly what you want, but your physical body was not aligned and was obstructing by not helping the valves to open.... Thus, we can understand that to get the internal jog between atma and paramatma, we need to get some physical balance and alignments to help with the process.
I've heard that some people can be so physically unbalanced and unstable, that the prana channels can open with such a force that they get thrown a couple of feet from the floor as if some 'poltergeist' has wacked them whilst they were doing simran! ....On the other hand, some people can also end up passing flat out on the floor with such force when the prana erupts through channels above or near heart chakra.
Sehaj, 24/7 helps. Sehaj in day, no emotions, no regrets, no anger, no praise, no slander....just sehaj ,,,calm  and neutral... This will help all your body layers to stay in equilibrium. It will help prevent abrupt and  sudden flows of energy.
.
 

If your doing simran slowly and elongated (with slow long breathing) then sehaj avasta will naturally come as mind stills. Personally I don't think it's a bad thing. Lets say your doing you jaap during the day and you have had a good nights sleep then this is a very good stage. If your lacking sleep then it can also be a natural body response. If once in sehaj there are no dreams and thought, then that is also very good. If your falling into dreams then not so good.
Ideally one need to start hearing anhad shabads in this sunn/sehaj state. This can take time to manifest. In one katha I heard you have to repeatedly keep pushing the mind into this state and eventually the mind begins to awaken within.
When in the stage of no thoughts whether conscious or unconscious two jahaj's take off from that place. One is that of anhad shabad, and the second is that of falling into dreams and into thoughts and visions. You want to take the jahaj that is naam and keep surti attached to that with no thoughts.
If you want to stay awake you will need to do jaap with determination, josh and more faster pace.
I took these notes from Gurmat Meditation youtube channel about how to go to sleep with simran and continue bhagti throughout the night. Maybe it will offer you some guidance.
1.Elongate waaaahe guuuuru jap and listen to dhun. This should help stop thoughts
2.Listen to sehaj dhun if you can hear dhun and fall asleep
3.You will enter deep sleep without dreams
4.Then after some time you will come back for a short moment. Maybe to change sides. Don’t open eyes. Repeat gurmantar with surti or listen to anhad shabad or start gurmantar again.
5.You will fall asleep again.
6.Then you will awake again.
7.Listen to anhad or simran
8.5 shabads will start
9.Anhad Toor (very loud) may come as combined sounds or like loud horn being blown
10.Put dhyan (listen) on Toor if possible after which Parkash may manifest
11.Put dhyan (look) on Parkash (Transparent glistening light - Nirankar)
 

@moorakh, I totally second what Sat1176 has explained above.  Whether you should think of sleep as a hindrance or not, is difficult to justify.
According to my own experience, I reckon that some of us may assume we are falling asleep, but in fact, we are rising into deeper states.   I'm no expert on sleep, but i can give a few pointers for you to look into....
- If you drift off into dream state, then this is mostly Maya.  I'm referring to doing simran whilst sat up with back straight. Doing simran whilst lying down is something I could discuss in the future. For yourself, at this stage, i would pay attention to what happens exactly when you think you're falling asleep?
1) You're head may droop forward, but if you're back and posture is giving way, then a) you are probably going into dream state-maya or b) you're prana flow isn't strong enough. 
OR
2) if you are drifting and can maybe hear things in background, and not losing your asan, AND gurmantar is still going, ..then you are most likely going towards the dreamless void(eventually).  From what I remember, this stage was rather confusing because i was never sure if i were asleep or in deeper consciousness.  IMO, i'd say to continue going deeper into your simran if you are encountering this.   Just keep checking that your gurmantar was still going. The tricky part is that you'll only be able to confirm this once you are back and fully awake (disassociated).
 
This was the approach that i was using at the time, even though I wasn't sure, but It helped in progressing further.  I hope that gives you  better understanding. Really, you don't wanna overthink it too much either but just keep focus on gurmantar. If sleep comes, and you really feel inclined to get under the duvet, then do so. Otherwise, just continue and assess after the session.  Before hearing naam, you're mind will go through a number of intermediary stages. It's all about  'cleansing' the mann.   
 
In time,  you  will learn that there is much more to sleep and how a gurmukh remains jagath 'an-din' (day-night). I'm not going to say too much on those topics or how it's possible, because it will probably be confusing. 
 
 

Sure thing.
Basically any activity of the mind is pulling the mind into the direction of the activity. This takes the mind out of its natural state (sehaj avastha, ਸਹਜ ਅਵਸਥਾ) and take it into other things.
The five categories of mind activity are - 1. (ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣ) Perception 2. (ਵਿਪਰ੍ਯ੍ਯ) Intellect 3. (ਵਿਕਲਪ) Imagination 4. (ਨਿਦ੍ਰਾ) Sleep 5. (ਸਮ੍ਰਤਯਃ) Memory
These cause a wandering mind, which leads to suffering. Enlightenment comes when the mind stops wandering and the mind begins to rest in its natural state (consciously).
 
So you understand how perception (eyes, ears, etc), imagination (dreaming, future) and memory (past recollections) take the mind away from its natural state.
 
Sleep and Intellect also do the same.
By Intellect we mean knowledge (idealized knowledge) that is stored in the mind. This knowledge and experience takes your consciousness away from the reality of what is. Because in order for us to make sense of reality we must create structures/ models in the mind that help us understand it.
We create models of the world in our mind, in order to make sense of reality. However those models themselves are not reality. The models are idealizations of reality, not reality itself.
So when you see reality through those models, then they take you away from your natural state.
 
During deep sleep you become unconscious, you have no feeling, no concept of any thing. You sink into darkness of sleep. You cannot come to see your natural state if you become unconscious. In order to see your natural state, you must remain conscious.
Thus sleep takes your mind away from your natural form.

Well it's simple. If you are trying to reduce distraction as much as possible then you have to recognize the amount of distraction is there when you are receiving information from the five senses.

Remember Patanjali's sutra?
योगश्चित्तवृत्तिनिरोधः ॥२॥
ਯੋਗਸ਼ਚਿੱਤਵ੍ਰੱਤਿਨਿਰੋਧਃ [[੨]]
[[2]] (ਯੋਗ) Enlightenment comes when the (ਵ੍ਰੱਤਿ) wandering of (ਸ਼ਚਿੱਤ) consciousness (ਨਿਰੋਧਃ) stops.
तदा द्रष्टुः स्वरूपेवस्थानम् ॥३॥
ਤਦਾ ਦ੍ਰਸ਼ਟੁਃ ਸ੍ਵਰੂਪੇਵਸਥਾਨਮ੍ [[੩]]
[[3]] (ਤਦਾ) Then (ਦ੍ਰਸ਼ਟੁਃ) consciousness (ਸਥਾਨਮ੍) comes to dwell in its (ਸ੍ਵਰੂਪੇਵ) own form.


Your mind wanders when it receives information from the five senses, which form your perception.

Try to stay with your conscious form and be still and you will notice, little sounds from the outside environment will tug you away from your own form.
It's as if your attention is attached to external stimulus with a rope and any external stimulus tugs at the rope.

That tugging is called wandering or distraction and Patanjali says that there are 5 ways your mind wanders.

प्रमाण विपर्यय विकल्प निद्रा स्मृतयः ॥६॥
ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣ ਵਿਪਰ੍ਯ੍ਯ ਵਿਕਲਪ ਨਿਦ੍ਰਾ ਸਮ੍ਰਤਯਃ [[੬]]
[[6]] 1. (ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣ) Perception 2. (ਵਿਪਰ੍ਯ੍ਯ) Intellect 3. (ਵਿਕਲਪ) Imagination 4. (ਨਿਦ੍ਰਾ) Sleep 5. (ਸਮ੍ਰਤਯਃ) Memory

...and you need to tackle all of them.

I think we have a different perspective on this. I agree with the overall spirit of the post. However, I thought I'd clarify a few things that I think you are over-looking.
While I think breath exercise is helpful in achieving states of meditation, I don't think the pauri is talking about breathing exercise.

ਭਉ ਖਲਾ ਅਗਨਿ ਤਪ ਤਾਉ ॥
ਭਉ ਖਲਾ means you pump up your fear state and the fear state causes the fire to burn hot. The fear causes the ਤਪ, tapas.

Tapas does not come from using stomach and lungs.
Tapas comes from single pointed focus.
And then it rises when Hari comes in, causing the pumping of the fear state and causes even higher states of dhyan.
This is the key.

Where we differ is that you want to associate the breath exercise with this pauri. Whereas I don't think the pauri is referring to breath exercise.

I think the pauri is talking entirely about what is happening in the field of awareness. It is not referring to the body, it is only talking about your field of awareness.
 
Yep and all takes place in the field of awareness. There is an effect on the body but this pauri is not talking about that.
 
Where it says that amrit cools agni, the agni is referring to desire.
Amrit is an anti-dote to our desires.

The basic human desire is to seek stimulus.

In any given moment the tendency of the mind is to seek out stimulus. It won't sit still.
Constant distractions, seeking the next thing, one after another without taking a break, "what is next thing? what is next thing?"
This takes us out of the eternal moment - amrit.

Desire = seeking stimulus
Boredom = state of no stimulus

Desire is a response of the mind to run away from boredom.

People are bored but they don't want to be. They are constantly chasing after the next stimulus so they don't have to face their boredom.

But boredom must be faced!
 
Body crucible... I get what you are saying.

However 
ਭਾਂਡਾ ਭਾਉ  ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਤਿਤੁ ਢਾਲਿ - in the container of love pour in the amrit

So the amrit has to be in a mental state of love.

Why is Guru Sahib saying that?

You have to understand that Amrit is referring to a state of boredom.
ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀਵਹੁ ਸਦਾ ਚਿਰੁ ਜੀਵਹੁ
Guru sahib says, drink amrit and live forever. This is moment by moment. This is not a quantitative lengthening of time, this is a subjective lengthening of time.

Anyone who has sat through the last 5 minutes of a presentation or class and felt like the clock was moving very slowly, has just experienced amrit.

Had they been in love with that state, they would have been minting coins right there and then! 
But they suffered through those moments because they were not in love with amrit that was given to them. They did not see the value of it.
 
People do not realize the value of being bored. They are constantly seeking the next stimulus. What is next? What is next?

Whereas the reality is, that amrit is in the boredom, if you can be ok with being bored.
 
PS I know they will be many who disagree with or doubt my assertion that amrit = boredom.
However this is crucial to make this connection.
It is important to realize that boredom is a good thing, and when you make that connection with boredom, something will click, it will drastically change how you view your moment to moment experience, in a good way!

Good topic and good post.
I will just add a little because I feel that it may be a technique or jugtee that is given. I think it was the bellows mention in translations tat made me think of breathe in, breathe out, breathe in, breathe out....I'm not disagreeing with your post or anything, but I think we can dig a little deeper and see something that is practical and for us to use?
I think it may be saas saas gurmantar jap. We jap using bellows of body core(stomach navel and lungs), the gurmantar has to be done with dhyian and single one-pointed focus.  We merge with and into anhad naad. Get amrit rus and ching-ching-->a minted coin of naam begins to accumulate in our body-crucible.
...Have a look below and see what you think?
Patience of the goldsmith. ...This is essential because to get the final end product, the goldsmith has to sometimes work very patiently with small intricate details. In this case, he mentions the end product as a mint/taksal coin. Not an ordinary coin that would just be considered a coin shaped disc, but one with an official royal mint like seal to make it authentic.

 
Understanding/intelligence -->Anvil, ...this is to what the "object" is hammered and shaped...... The "mat" is Guru's mat or gurmat.
Using guru's mat, we use guru's mantra.....gurmantar.
The hammer/hathiyar, used to shape the gold and make it authentic has to be specific in order to hammer the details. I think this is reference to "naad' because "gurmukh naadan, gurmukh vedan, gurmukh reha samayee" ....In simran,you have to listen and merge into the naad..... this leads to naam amrit.
 
The "bellows" are used to pump forced air into a furnace to get the molten gold. ....Action of bellows is by expanding and contracting manually. This is analogous to stomach and lungs using saas graas techniques of breathe in-out, in-out, wahe-guru,..wahe-guru.. As per our prana,  this area of the body is where heat is produced. ->the TAPAS is the heat energy generated by any yoga practice.  Too much is not good, but to get the end product we still need it providing we can cool down the object in question. .....The cooling energy is higher up from the stomach and comes from moon energies of bindu chakra....Amrit is also considered as cooling and in gurbani it mentions in places how amrit cools the agan or brahmagan(fire-heat).
NOTE- a lot of people get confused and think that they should avoid body heat production. They feel this because of problems with too much inner agani ....therefore, they avoid many practices, foods etc.... Sadly, they don't realise that we need both, but they have to be balanced. This is why yoga describes sun and moon energies distributed around the body. The sun/ right eye or pingula side is heat. The moon/left eye or ida side is cool energy. Guru ji mentions in gurbani that the sun and moon are both needed to nurse us, just as we have daylight and night.
The crucible is where the product is collected of poured into. In this case, the body. Remember that the body has been pumping the gurmanta like a bellow from the body core. This will have generated the tapas heat.. The next step was to get the gurmantar into  an authentic molten naam ras....and this happened using the ved from the naad. The next step would be to have the molten naam ras poured into the body crucible.
 
Only now, after the molten amrit rus is poured, is the shabad and the coin of naam produced. This coin has the official seal to make it mint and give it an official currency value.
Why would we need an official mint shabad/naam need value?
Because the Wealth of naam is the only thing that we can take with us. Nothing else is of any value. We can't use fakes, we can't buy naam on black-market. We need the official naam currency just like the royal mint coins and US presidential seals on currencies.
 

In Pauri 38 of Jap ji, Guru Nanak Dev ji describes the advanced meditation process using the analogy of a goldsmith. He describes the process as if it were being performed with a bunch of tools.

We might read it often, perhaps in the nitnem, but do we really understand what he is talking about?
Hopefully this thread will help you to understand this part of Guru Granth Sahib, and will help to put it on the map for your own inner journey.
Let's get started -
ਜਤੁ ਪਾਹਾਰਾ ਧੀਰਜੁ ਸੁਨਿਆਰੁ ॥
(ਜਤੁ) Ability to Withdraw the Five Senses from the world is the (ਪਾਹਾਰਾ) Workshop.
(ਧੀਰਜੁ) Patience is the (ਸੁਨਿਆਰੁ) Goldsmith.

ਅਹਰਣਿ ਮਤਿ ਵੇਦੁ ਹਥੀਆਰੁ ॥
(ਮਤਿ) Intellligence is the (ਅਹਰਣਿ) Anvil.
(ਵੇਦੁ) Vedas - listening to spiritual texts - is the (ਹਥੀਆਰੁ) Hammer.

ਭਉ ਖਲਾ ਅਗਨਿ ਤਪ ਤਾਉ ॥
Blow through the (ਖਲਾ) Pipe (ਭਉ ) the Fear of God, and increase the heat of the (ਅਗਨਿ) Fire.
This is called (ਤਪ) Tapasaya.

ਭਾਂਡਾ ਭਾਉ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਤਿਤੁ ਢਾਲਿ ॥ ਘੜੀਐ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਚੀ ਟਕਸਾਲ ॥
In the (ਭਾਂਡਾ) container of (ਭਾਉ) Love - your heart - (ਤਿਤੁ ਢਾਲਿ) pour in the molten gold - (ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ) Amrit.

Amrit needs a bit of an elaboration here because there is no substitute word in English. Amrit means A - non, Mrityu - Death. It means non-death, non-dying. It is referring to the subjective, the qualitative state of eternity.

Imagine eternity not as a quantitative state, not as in - "How many years?" - that's quantity.
But rather as a qualitative state, as in - "How long is 1 minute?" - that's quality.

The word Boredom comes somewhat close. For example, when you are bored in class, the clock seems to be ticking a lot slower. So Amrit is like a sweet, joyful boredom. The clock ticks slower, as if it were eternity.


ਘੜੀਐ ਸਬਦੁ ਸਚੀ ਟਕਸਾਲ ॥
(Take this Amrit and pour it into the mould of Love) and mint the Gold coins of your guru's words - his or her instructions.

ਜਿਨ ਕਉ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰਮੁ ਤਿਨ ਕਾਰ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਦਰੀ ਨਦਰਿ ਨਿਹਾਲ ॥੩੮॥
Those who are looked upon kindly by their guru, they find out how to do this method. And when they apply the method, they are liberated.
 
It's just mind-blowing how he describes it using hammers and stuff!

When you withdraw your senses from world, now you have your inner space, this is your workshop.
If you are not patient, you will break/leave this space. So you have to be patient to maintain state in order to progress.

Your intelligence is what the spiritual texts must strike on. Your soul becomes the basis for the spiritual texts to have their effect on you. You need to constantly hit your intelligence with spiritual texts in order to make something out of it.

You need to have a Fear of God, because this will make your fire hot. The fire he is referring to is alertness/consciousness. The fear of God, as it increases, is like increasing alertness.

Why is there fear of God?

When you are becoming more and more conscious, the more conscious you become the more God comes in. When more God comes in to you, you will become frightened, because you will now start dying. Your haumai/ego will start dying the natural response of your ego to death is of fear.

So when you ego is dying it becomes fearful, and the more fear there is, the better the flame of consciousness.

But there can't just be fear because then you'd want to run away. There has to be love for this type of state, otherwise you will be out of there quickly. Your workshop will close down if you are afraid to go in so there must be love, there must attraction towards this process, and towards God so that you stay in and continue hammering away.
So in that love, pour in eternity, that is, maintain this state for long period of time, and use the guru's instructions to stay there and experience God, and let him in fully.

I was reading this transcript of Ishwar Puri on How to Meditate and Go Within. I found it very inspiring so thought I would share some relevant bits. It might offer as an aid as we make our inner journeys. Its bit of a long read but worthwhile.

Great Master kept on saying, “This is not blind faith. This is not believing somebody. It is believing your own experience. Go within and find out.” Then he would quote from all the religious texts; original texts. The Bible says “The kingdom is within you.” The other texts say “The original sound is the sound that created this world.” The oldest Rig Veda of the Indian Vedas, the old text script, the Sanskrit texts say that “The original creation took place because of the Naad, the Sound.” John’s Gospel says, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

How can all these different scriptures, all these different fountainheads of religion say the same thing? Who has practiced it? Who has gone inside to see if there is such a thing as the Word or a sound or a Nad or a Shabd? I said, “This has to be found out. You can’t have blind faith. You must see it yourself.” I made some progress, but I also gradually found that when you make that kind of effort which I was trying, there is a big obstacle on the way. That obstacle is your own thinking, your own mind. I discovered that the mind, which is supposed to be a great help to us, the thinking mind should be able to rationalize, think out, make a good effort, but itself it is the creator of doubt and fear.

Since then I have seen most people, my friends, when they are on the path, they suffer from the same problem. Their mind and their thinking process are creating doubt and fear. I wondered why there should be doubt of these things. The nature of the mind, human mind, is to create a doubt. It is not something unusual. The mind is designed to do it. As I discovered later on that the mind by its thinking process does not always
clarify things because it has limited data on which it works.

The mind is a logical machine. It works on logic, and as some of you might have studied logic, you know that logic is of two kinds, the deductive logic and the inductive logic. The deductive logic only deduces things, comes to conclusions based upon what is fed to the mind. You can say there is a white wall here in front of me. This is part of the wall; therefore, it is white. That is deductive knowledge. There is no additional knowledge that you get through deductive logic. The mind does not go beyond what is already known.

The inductive logic is a guess work. It speculates. This wall is white. This wall goes around the corner, which I cannot see. Presumably, probably, it is also white. That is an inductive method. It is uncertain. What kind of activity of the mind can give me certainty? There is nothing that would give me certainty. Today the mind says this is very clear. Tomorrow a new factor comes in, you learn something new, and the old conclusion.
becomes absolutely wrong.

I discovered that the mind creates doubt by its very nature, by its very function. The mind functions in a very unique way, that it creates time and space for us. It creates thinking in us, and through thinking, it picks up the sense perceptions and translates for us. It took me some time to know that the mind is what sees things, what hears things, what touches things. All sense perceptions are merely stimuli that come to us. The mind tells what it is. If I saw a painting, I can't know it is a painting. I see just globs of color. I see different perception of sight. I look at it. The mind converts it and says, “That is a nice painting.” The interpretation of all sense perceptions is being done by the mind. Because the sense perceptions keep on changing the perceptions we are getting, the mind keeps on changing interpretation. It did not take me very long to find how unreliable the mind is to seek anything of reality or clarity. Therefore, I have to find something else. What else is there?

I found that most of us are misled into believing that we are the mind, that our consciousness consists of nothing else but the thinking self. That the thinking self is “I” and that is what the self is. We totally forget that there is some part of us which is conscious, knows it is there, and does not depend upon thinking. For example, intuition, the flash of gut knowledge that you get suddenly … there is no process of thinking involved in that, and yet you know sometimes a gut feeling seems to override what the thinking mind is saying. The mind says, “Don’t do this.” The gut says, “I have to do it.” “Why?” “I don’t know why.” The thinking mind is saying, “Don’t do it”, and the gut feeling says, “Do it”, or the reverse. The thinking mind says, “Do it”, and the gut feeling says, “No, it is not right.” Whether you call it the conscience speaking inside or if you say the second mind speaking inside, the higher mind speaking inside, there is obviously something else that does not require the process of thinking, yet is conscious in yourself.

This was a very big discovery for me, and it was made very clear by Great Master in his explanations to me. He said, “We do not have only the mind. We have the soul and the mind. They are not the same thing. The soul of a human being is pure consciousness. It does not require thinking. It can function on its own, and its own functions are intuition, love, beauty, joy. Only the soul can experience these; the mind cannot. The mind can do thinking, rationalization, logic, interpretation, but it cannot create love, it cannot create intuitive knowledge, it cannot create the sense of beauty and joy, and bliss that we get.

Once we knew the distinction, also we found out the mind functions only in time and space. Even the smallest thought takes duration, takes time. Intuition soul functions outside of it. It gives you instant knowledge, instant feeling. There is no time involved. The mind functions in time and space. The soul, the spirit of the human being, which is pure consciousness, can function without it. Once the distinction was made … and very clear … that there is a mind and a soul, that who are we? Are we mind or soul? It doesn’t take very long to discover that mind is merely an accessory, a little machine added to ourselves, like a little computer we are carrying in our heads. The mind is like a computer. Whatever you put into it, it processes and gives us results.

But the soul consciousness is the real self, that is the powerhouse that makes the mind work, that makes the senses work, that makes this body work. Our life force, our real life, our real consciousness is the soul, not the mind. Once that came into my knowledge, and Great Master emphasized it, “Don’t forget you are the soul, not the mind. What would happen then? Do not be led by the mind. Lead the mind! The process is very simple.” His teaching then became very clear to me, that we have been led by the mind all our life, that thoughts dictate to us what we should do. Instead of that, our gut feeling should dictate what to do and tell the mind, think like that, and do it. It is the soul that should make decisions, and the mind should implement them. This was a reversal of our ordinary way of living. Ordinarily, we think what to do and then somehow hope that destiny will take us along the path, something else will take us. Our consciousness will follow it. But we are putting the mind ahead and the soul to follow. The truth was that if you want to find out the reality of who you are, you must put the soul ahead and then instruct the mind what to do.

So meditation became a very simple exercise. Meditation was “Soul giving direction to the mind; do this.” Then I understood what the whole process of initiation was, why we repeat mantras, why we repeat words. It was not just because those words are special … mantra, which of course they may be, but we don’t know. At the least the initial function of repetition of words which we don’t even understand, the initial function is that the mind should be instructed to think of those words and squeeze out other words of thought. It is a control of the mind. By repetition of words, you can squeeze out the thoughts that otherwise take us astray. It is the thoughts that take us away from ourselves.

Every time we think of something, it has an association of ideas outside of ourselves. We think of our children, our work, our business, our friends or associates, our concerns and worries about what is going to happen. Every time we have a thought like that, it takes us away from our own center. We are never actually sitting in our own head. Our consciousness is proceeding from our head. Our attention flows from there, and we never spend any time there. Through our thinking process, we are spending all our time outside.

Therefore, the meditation process became simple. It is just an act of withdrawing your attention, withdrawing your consciousness from everything outside and putting it back on yourself to discover who you are as a soul, not as a mind, not as a body, not as sense perceptions. So this was a clear method that Great Master was able to explain in so many ways as time went on. When I was … it was the ‘40s, about 1942, when I had my last question and answer session with Great Master. I said, “Master, I have one more question to ask you.” That was about experiences that were being generated by His method of meditation. From 1943 I never asked any questions. All questions were answered internally.

I tell people, “Do you know all your questions have their answers inside you? There is not a single question that you can ask for which the answer does not lie inside you.” When we ask somebody else for an answer, we are only verifying the answer that is inside us is correct. When somebody gives us an answer that makes no sense, we reject it. If somebody says something, say, “I knew that! That is it!” Then we are just getting a verbal confirmation of the answer that was already in us. Through the meditational techniques of the Great Master’s teaching, we are able to see the answers before you even ask them. The answers even precede before you can put the questions.

Therefore, you discover that answers to all questions of your mind are sitting inside you, and all you have to do is go to the point where the answers lie, which is the mental region of experience, which means that there are many regions of experience that we can have access to through meditation. The regions of experience are the physical experience of the physical world. We are all sitting here in the physical world.

Our bodies are physical, material, and through the body, our sense perceptions, and our thoughts, we are connected to the rest of the physical and material world. If you were not material, there would be no material world around us. Our physical body connects us and gives us the experience of the physical and material world. This is a level of consciousness. We are experiencing consciousness by being conscious of the physical world. If we withdraw our attention in this body, if we just withdraw our attention within ourselves to the point from where it looks like attention is flowing out and connecting us with the world outside, if we just withdraw our attention to the point from where we can notionally see our attention is flowing out, which is in the head. It doesn’t take very long to introspect and see, am I putting my attention from my hands, from my feet? Of course, they are too far removed from my head. You can just by thinking about it, just by introspection find out that the attention, which is the movable part of consciousness, which is the manipulative part of consciousness, which you can move here or there, put your attention here or there, or not put attention here or there, that part is flowing out from your head through the eyes, through the thinking process. It all takes place in the head.

Therefore, when you close your eyes, you are still there. The feeling that as a conscious being, if you are just a conscious thought existing, where are you existing? You will discover it is in the head behind the eyes. The rest of it is attached to you as a physical body. Therefore, the right place to withdraw your attention would be the third eye. Great Master said, “The truth is the door to all inner perception lies inside the head behind the eyes. If you want to experience all these things we are talking about, on different levels of experiences and consciousness, the door to open those levels is right behind the eyes in your head. Put your attention there.”

We haven’t realized that since we were born we have always put our attention outside. There has been no occasion for us to put our attention inside. We are used to focusing our attention. When you focus your attention, it is always external to yourself. We have never been taught to withdraw attention. We know how to put attention on things. Put your attention on this book. Put your attention on a subject. Put your attention to what I am saying. But we have never been taught how to withdraw the attention to your own self inside the head behind the eyes.

The process of the Great Master’s teaching began to teach me and I learned over time was that the withdrawal of attention is a totally different subject. It is a totally different way of doing things. The process is different than putting your attention. By focusing attention on anything, you are putting your attention out of yourself, not withdrawing, not discovering who you are. Therefore, the Great Master taught how to withdraw your attention to yourself. That is to pull back your attention to where it is flowing from. It takes some practice. It takes some doing to discover that the point where you are having this experience of putting your attention on things is not only behind the eyes, it is at the middle point between the eyes and behind it.

If my two fingers represent the two eyeballs, where the two fingers meet on my hand, if you can see this, it is almost exactly the place if you contemplate where is your attention flowing from, that is the place behind the eyes in the center. If we know that much, then we can proceed forward with the practice of withdrawing attention to our self, and we do it by a very interesting process, the process which we all use without knowing it, is called imagination. If you imagine you are there, attention goes there.

Supposing you are imagining you are sitting in that corner of the room, your attention will go there. If you imagine you are sitting on top of this house, your attention will go there. Wherever you are imagining you are going, attention is pulled there automatically. This becomes a simple method … to imagine that you are sitting inside your head behind the eyes. Make this head of yours, the forehead is a wall in front, these ears are on either side of a beautiful room, that this body is like a mansion and has many floors. The sixth floor is behind the eyes. You are sitting on the sixth floor, and you are putting your attention to where you believe is the center of the head.

This exercise alone, without doing anything else, will open up a door and give you experiences that you have never had before. It is amazing that we think this was so simple, and yet it looks so difficult. The simplicity affected me very much. This is such a simple thing that we have to withdraw attention to the point from it is flowing out, and it is flowing from that point. That point has been addressed in all the spiritual books that I have seen, called the third eye. “If thine eye be single, then your whole body shall be filled with light.” “If you have a point behind your eyes, you will see the truth.” All the scriptures say it in different ways, that there is a third eye, there is a point behind the eyes. There true light lasts. If you can reach that point by withdrawing attention, your whole body gets filled with light. You see a light which you have never seen outside in this world. We are all full of light. Our own soul, which I am talking about, the consciousness, is full of light. You see actual light at the level that you can’t even see with these eyes. A simple mechanical way of pulling your attention behind the eyes can create this kind of experience. The doors open up to all other levels.

What happens if you are steady enough to keep your attention behind the eyes and keep it there, sustain it there, what would happen? You would begin to find that you don’t know where your hands and feet are. I suggest a practice. If you go to a concert and in the concert there are many musical instruments playing. You hear the drums playing, the trumpets playing. Say, I like the drums. Put your attention on the drums. The drums become louder, the trumpets become weaker. They have not changed their pace nor volume. Your attention can pick up on anything and make that more aware in yourself and the other thing less aware. When you put your attention within yourself, the attention automatically is withdrawn from everything else, starting with the rest of the world. You forget it because your attention is here. You want to think about what is happening behind the eyes, not the rest of the world. You forget your worries. You forget your cares. You forget attachments. You are experimenting with withdrawal of attention to yourself.

Later on you will even begin to forget where your body is. The interesting part is that when you withdraw your attention in meditation behind the eyes, the withdrawal of awareness of the body is very gradual. You will notice the first part is you don’t know where your hands are, where your feet are. You don’t know … put your hands here. Your eyes are closed, attention is there. Are my hands here? I don’t know where they are. I don’t know where the feet are. Are they like this or like this? That is the first beginning, showing that your attention is being withdrawn inside. If you sustain that process, you forget the whole body where it is. And yet when you don’t know where your whole body is, you are fully aware of everything. You can see clearly, more clearly than you can see with these eyes. You can fly, walk around. You have left the body. You have a body similar to this one that is not bound by gravity, that is not bound by the limitations of this body, and yet you are the same self! It is the same self. It opens up just by becoming unaware of the outer cover of this physical body.

You can carry out this process again and again through every cover of yours, the physical body being the first cover. The second body is called sensory body, or astral body. It has all the sense perceptions of this body, in fact, more acutely working. You can withdraw attention even within that body and become unaware of that, and then the mind alone becomes your body. Then you find that the mind, the thinking mind, was not merely a thinking machine. It was actually a casing around you. It has no shape like this, yet within that you get experiences that you can never have in the physical body, the experience of how you became a physical body, the experience of what are the laws of cause and effect, the law of karma that makes your destinies in this body. You discover all that. It is all lying there.

Nobody is going to put it there. It is already there, you just have to discover it. You discover through your mind, through the universal mind, that all minds that we think of as people’s mind are proceeding from the same machine, the universal machine waiting there. You don’t stop there! Most of the teachers of spirituality in the world have stopped there or below that. There are very few teachers who will go beyond the mind because they do not distinguish between the mind and the soul. Those who go beyond the mind reach a perfection of spirit, and we call them Perfect Living Masters. The Perfect Living Masters say, “You have reached the end of your mental state, but you have not reached yourself. You are beyond the mind.”

Therefore, the causal body, which is your mind, withdrawing from that, when the mind is withdrawn and the thinking process is left aside, sitting separate from you, you discover your true self. You discover who you really are. You are pure consciousness, the ability to be conscious, the ability to be conscious and create with that ability, the power to create, all experiences of all levels…that is you. That is the real self. That is the soul. When you discover the soul, the next step is even better.

If you withdraw from individuality, the individuation of the soul, you discover there was only one soul, only one totality of consciousness from which all individuation took place within it, creating the whole drama that we call life. Such a beautiful experience. Great Master’s experience with me was so unique to lead me on to these kinds of things, and I feel that it is the greatest gift one can have to see the reality of all these things that are happening, to see how it happens, why it happens, why we are here, why our destinies are different, and why we have different kinds of lives.

I must admit that video was very inspiring indeed. Many thanks for sharing. I liked the way he clarified the lower level sounds and how the true upward pulling sound/naad is the one you need to find and connect with. This should sound like a Bell and with progress should become an elongated sound.

He once again confirmed the technique of listening to the gurmantar internally and how the purpose of a mantar is help bring back and control a wondering mind.

Reminded me once again of Bhagat Baynees bani in Guru Maharaj on Ang 974

The energy channels of the Ida, Pingala and Shushmanaa: these three dwell in one place.
irhaa pingulaa a-or sukhmanaa teen baseh ik thaa-ee.

This is the true place of confluence of the three sacred rivers: this is where my mind takes its cleansing bath.
baynee sangam tah piraag man majan karay tithaa-ee.

O Saints, the Immaculate Lord dwells there;
santahu tahaa niranjan raam hai.

how rare are those who go to the Guru, and understand this.
gur gam cheenai birlaa ko-ay.

The all-pervading immaculate Lord is there. Pause
tahaaN niranjan rama-ee-aa ho-ay. Rahaa-o

What is the insignia of the Divine Lord`s dwelling?
dayv sathaanai ki-aa neesaanee.

The unstruck sound current of the Shabad vibrates there.
tah baajay sabad anaahad banee.

There is no moon or sun, no air or water there.
tah chand na sooraj pa-un na paanee.

The Gurmukh becomes aware, and knows the Teachings.
saakhee jaagee gurmukh jaanee.

Spiritual wisdom wells up, and evil-mindedness departs;
upjai gi-aan durmat chheejai.

the nucleus of the mind sky is drenched with Ambrosial Nectar.
amrit ras gagnantar bheejai.

One who knows the secret of this device,
ays kalaa jo jaanai bhay-o.

meets the Supreme Divine Guru.
bhaytai taas param gurday-o.

The Tenth Gate is the home of the inaccessible, infinite Supreme Lord.
dasam du-aaraa agam apaaraa param purakh kee ghaatee.

Above the store is a niche, and within this niche is the commodity.
oopar haat haat par aalaa aalay bheetar thaatee.

One who remains awake, never sleeps.
jaagat rahai so kabahu na sovai.
The three qualities and the three worlds vanish, in the state of Samaadhi.
teen tilok samaaDh palovai.
He takes the Beej Mantra, the Seed Mantra, and keeps it in his heart.
beej mantar lai hirdai rahai.

Turning his mind away from the world, he focuses on the cosmic void of the absolute Lord.
manoo-aa ulat sunn meh gahai.

He remains awake, and he does not lie.
jaagat rahai na alee-aa bhaakhai.
He keeps the five sensory organs under his control.
paacha-o indree bas kar raakhai.
He cherishes in his consciousness the Guru`s Teachings.
gur kee saakhee raakhai cheet.

He dedicates his mind and body to the Lord`s Love.
man tan arpai krisan pareet.
He considers his hands to be the leaves and branches of the tree.
kar palav saakhaa beechaaray.

He plugs up the source of the river of evil tendencies.
asur nadee kaa banDhai mool.

Turning away from the west, he makes the sun rise in the east.
pachhim fayr charhaavai soor.
I know understand "pachhim" to be a reference to the back of the head.

He bears the unbearable, and the drops trickle down within;
ajar jarai so nijhar jharai.

then, he speaks with the Lord of the world.
jagannaath si-o gosat karai

The four-sided lamp illuminates the Tenth Gate.
cha-umukh deevaa jot du-aar.

The Primal Lord is at the center of the countless leaves.
paloo anat mool bichkaar.

He Himself abides there with all His powers.
sarab kalaa lay aapay rahai.

He weaves the jewels into the pearl of the mind.
man maanak ratnaa meh guhai.

The lotus is at the forehead, and the jewels surround it.
mastak padam du-aalai manee.

Within it is the Immaculate Lord, the Master of the three worlds.
maahi niranjan taribhavan Dhanee.

The Panch Shabad, the five primal sounds, resound and vibrate their in their purity.
panch sabad nirmaa-il baajay.

The chauris - the fly brushes wave, and the conch shells blare like thunder.
dhulkay chavar sankh ghan gaajay.

The Gurmukh tramples the demons underfoot with his spiritual wisdom.
dal mal daatahu gurmukh gi-aan.

Baynee longs for Your Name, Lord.
baynee jaachai tayraa naam.

Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru....

I was at a simran camp a few weeks ago and was very lucky to be amongst some very advanced abyassee gurmukhs.

I noticed that at the camp, my rom rom was spontaneously getting active when the sangat was doing jap !
At first, I thought it was just coincidence that this was happening, but it would sync automatically every time, whatever the pace or speed of jap was ?
I had to keep convincing myself that it was just my imagination .

A very respected and high avastha gurmukh confirmed that this was one of the nishanees that rom rom is parpakh and getting pargat !
I was told that experiencing jap as if it's electrifying and pulsating throughout your body is rom rom manifesting and that I must continue to do more and more simran.


I have since picked up a few more pointers with regards to rom rom-

1) rom rom is the beginning of para bani, where we stimulate and try invoke automatic jap by starting simran at the navel.

2) I believe Sant Baba Isher Singh ji mentions this technique as well for beginning rom rom in one of his audios.

3) Your SURAT and SHABAD both begin to mold together and this results in rom rom and para bani getting stronger and stronger.

4) Eventually, (especially when head is uncovered), one can feel a very cool soothing sensation running from top of head throughout the body.... this is the amrit getting manifest throughout the body and in gurbani......

ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਧਾਰ ਗਗਨਿ ਦਸ ਦੁਆਰਿ ॥
Amriṯ ḏẖār gagan ḏas ḏu▫ār.
From the Sky of the Tenth Gate, the Ambrosial Nectar trickles down

5) Also later on, ....One can feel the waheguru jap coming from nearly everything and most objects around them.


6) rom rom and the merging of Shabad with Surat, can also stimulate and let the sushmana flow fully towards the agya chakra (slightly above eye brow mid-point). This results in many awakening symptoms of agya chakra, further intuition and a strong bond of love starts to form from this inner awareness.
Swami j and yoga sutras mention that this higher affinity for the inner awareness is helpful in setting the stage for deeper experiences of sunn and samadhi.

I’m going to have a go explaining my interpretation of Rom Rom Simran. How to get started. This is just one method but with some gurmukhs it can mianifest spontaneously.
It's mentioned quite often in the order of saas graas, saas saas and then rom rom, but very rarely does any mahapursh give any details about it.
I get that impression because it is a very practical technique that involves sukham sareer compared to physical, and I assume that most teachers/mahapursh/sant show and demonstrate to an abyhasee only after he is adept in saas graas and saas saas.
It almost seems as it is kept hush hush and some sant/mahapursh don't reveal to student until x-amount of years have been spent doing the other vidhis/jugtees.
I found that I could get a little information from one place and another little idea from another,,,,, so basically, my interpretation is from gathering the little bits and putting them together from varying sources.
I must stress that as far as I understand it, one should be doing this only when they know how to maintain or get very close to a steadiness and when they are able to get breath balanced (ie,, via sukhmana channel)
Primarily,one has to do more abyhaas to get the nadhis cleansed and stimulated, and when this happens- the sukham sareer properties start coming into play.
I won't go into the vidhies of breath balancing or dhyian control for now,but will give you my understanding and how I've been doing the rom rom simran.
ROM ROM SIMRAN
This is pasanti bhani jap- which is mental,silent and completely from the sukham Mind.
and it is antar ghat (completely internal)
We are using sukham ears and sukham mouth to jap. (ie,,,sukham gyan and karam indries)
It is ALL sukham compared to the Physical breathing manoeuvres/inhalations/tongue use....etc.. in Saas graas & Saas saas
However, there is the beginning aspect of trying to feel the pulse or heartbeat, that is classed as physical. But once you master this, then it all becomes sukham.
A little point I would like to make is about some confusion for matching breathing with heartbeat - which can no doubt lead to hyperventilation
I really don't think that you should match your breath to heartbeat- since this is ALL sukham. If we start matching physical breath then we are going towards sargun/physical behaviour and hindering progress into sukham.
The way I see it is-
With simran we progress through the jugtees and techniques by gradually making our surti, dhyian and actions, to move from Sargun to Nirgun. So, if our surti can come out and away from the sargun body, then we move away from the grasps of kaal and his maya dominance. Therefore, we need to make surti/dhyian move from Sargun to Nirgun.
(remember- before creation there was just the nirgun shabad and all sargun manifested later. It makes sense to go back home in that reverse order!)
As for the rapid breathing technique that can lead to hyperventilation and hypoxia, I am aware that some keertan sangats practice this, but this is not to be confused with heartbeat & rom rom jugtee, or any other jugtee for that matter.
Hypoxia or oxygen deprivation from rapid hyperventilation can give someone a good feeling of being lightheaded. I have heard how some of these kirtan sangats(akj) claim to have feelings of divine anand from their fast paced kirtan samagams, but this is nothing much different than the 2 minute high that party students get with nitric 'poppers', because of same oxygen starvation effects.
Technique/method
1) 1st quieten and get that steady state where breath is balanced.
2) Try and feel your heart beat by putting the focus into that area
3) If this is difficult, then it may help if-
-a) you hold your breath for a few seconds and then try to locate/listen.
-b) Or you can instead ,try to feel your pulse on the wrist.
4) Once you find the beat and can follow it's beating rhythm, then putting some more dhyian there should make it more louder and prominent.
5) the anhad naad/dhun should also get more prominent if you have it present.
-I usually find that they both get more enhanced at the same time
6) Now, that the heart beating is clear and can be followed, you incorporate and match the gurmantar along with it to begin rom rom.
-this itself can be done in 2 ways
a) you should be able to identify an ''up'' beat and a ''down'' beat.
...then coincide the Wahe-with-Up, and the Guru-with-Down.
OR..
b) when the beat is too fast to differentiate the up/down, then you can match the whole gurmantar with this faster beat. For eg..you are saying waheguru,waheguru,waheguru, without any pause or breaks in wahe-and-guru.
With practice, you should eventually be able to locate the heartbeat without touching or feeling any pulse.
If you HOLD the breath for a few seconds, then this also make it easier to sense.
NEXT, the goal is to put the focus on navel, because when focusing at navel, one can be steady in the sukhmanna channel and trying to rise upwards.
The sukhmanna channel runs directly from navel area towards the nijh ghar. (in a straight line along the path of chakras)
Before we are born and in the womb, this connection is fully active and intune with waheguru. When the umbilical cord is cut and the first birth breath is taken, that's when the veil layers of maya world start their course. You could also say that the knot to maya is tied after cord is cut/breath is taken in atmosphere.
 
ਮਨ ਰੇ ਪਵਨ ਦ੍ਰਿੜ ਸੁਖਮਨ ਨਾਰੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Man re pavan ḏariṛ sukẖman nārī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
O mind, hold your breath steady within the central channel of the Sushmanaa. ||1||Pause||
It's important to get the steady breath balance before you start rom rom.
This steadiness and control comes when there are no thoughts.
If any thoughts arise, then the breath balancing goes into either side of Ida or Pingala.
That’s why it is called the turbulent ocean (bhavsagar) because we rock from side to side (left to right), or from ida to pingala whilst trying to travel up the nadis and trying to maintain the steadiness in sukhmana throughout.
This 2nd stage of rom rom is to focus around navel area and feel the pulse there which is much more sukham.
The focus, I believe is not directly at the belly button, but you feel the pulse and rom rom vibration just below it and deeper inside.
It is the area called the DHARAN.- which is about 1 inch below and 1 inch inwards.
I often find it a little easier to locate this subtle area compared to the heartbeat sometimes. With practice it should become easier and almost instant.
The vibrations that I feel there can be In and Out and so I use the mental Wahe-in and Guru-out,
OR sometimes they may be going slightly up/down at an angle rather than in/out, but I still use the same method and have noticed that the rate of rom rom vibration is practically the same.
All the jap is done in complete sukham from the mind, and it can help if you do the internal, mental chant with the inner voice being raised with some power behind it. (as if your enforcing your internal chant)
The last check I usually make is to be sure that I am breathing slowly and normally, and not accidentally incorporating the breath into the jap rhythm-which can be very easily done (and then you can end up with the hyperventilating issue explained above). Again, with practice, this will become instant and second nature.
This practice takes you on a whole new quest with both mystical and spiritual experiences, that are individual and personally tailored to each of us. You will know that they can't be discussed openly.
I can seriously understand why it is of great importance to have the right sangat and experienced gurmukh/mahapursh/sant guidance/advisor to assist you along the encounters at this stage. This is probably the reason to why it has the "hush hush'' factor and doesn't get mentioned too often.
Sadly, I'm not in the company of any mahapursh and at certain times I have felt the desperate need to get questions answered.
So far, I seemed to have managed using gurbani, certain info sources, practice and of course, Waheguru's blessings.
 
Using the above practice method should eventually make Rom Rom fully manifest/pargat. There are a few nishanees that can help determine if it's pargat in full or not, but I won't go into those here.
 
 

Good topic man.
I can't stress enough about the importance of proper posture and the "no no no" about anterior pelvic tilt. You've  got to understand your body and learn to listen to it. ......Bad posture and misaligned  balance will ALWAYS lead to other physical problems. Most simple knee problems are due to knock-on effects from mistreating your own back...---> leads to unbalanced contractions in lower torso and legs --->leads to pull or push on knee ligaments --->PAIN!!! ...For eg, classic pain on the outer medial knee is most commonly due to a tight IT-band....  A few weeks ago a bajurg was in the gym and was mentioning the pain on his outer knee. After monitoring a few of his few movements and posture, my trainer was pretty sure that his IT band was tight. He demonstrated few stretches for the old baba to try .......and a week later ...Volia! .....he was cured. He couldn't believe it as he had suffered months and months with stomach problems from anti-inflammatories that his doctor was prescribing.....
I think that if we do anything that can in some way hinder our spiritual progress, then our body will try telling us with warning signs, one way or the other.  The body knows that our purpose in life is to find our own jyot....and if you start misaligning your back and making spiritual blockages, then you will suffer body symptoms due to the physical blockages caused in return.
Off the top of my head, I know that core exercises like the planks, lunges.squats whilst keeping back straight by looking straight ahead in mirror...etc.. will help with pelvic tilt. Also many stretches like downward dog, cat stretches, and even quad stretches.   It is important to push and strengthen your legs because that is the direction negative energies from your bad posture will go. I used to do a lot of cycling and I would recommend this or if you wanna do it in gym then use a spin-bike rather than the other sort.
My personal all time tip is to keep that naval slightly tense and pulled in at all times and chest out like a big palwaaan!!!  Yeh, the macho look of chest out and holding your belly flab in,.. is very very healthy and a very good protectant for your back. Did you know that you won't injure your back muscles by lifting something awkward from floor, if your navel is pulled inwards and slightly taught?
Even when sitting down to do simran, ..naval in,,chest out,  a few deep slow breaths..and go!  You wanna be able to feel all your energy travelling up and down from muldhara up to your head and back down with every breath.
There are loads more tips and ways to avoid these postural problems and I tend to just use my initiative as I go along. I recommend you don't sit too much on comfy couches and sofas where your back is not straight. A yoga ball is excellent to sit on and there are numerous exercises that you can use it for.
 
As for Yoga, I can only talk about the kundalini yoga that I have been doing for a few years. ... Yes, It does definitely help, ..and if done properly, it will help clear the mind, heighten your inner and outer awareness, strengthen and help elongate your spine, strengthen your body,teach stamina and endurance......and best of all... it can help achieve unforgettable moments of transcendent joy and spiritual ecstasy! :)  .  There is nothing better for me than to have Yoga as an art of extending my spiritual prayer and devotion into physical discipline. 
 

Have a listen to this. 
 

I was just watching a live broadcast on the Shri Bhucho Sahib youtube channel and noticed that after the ardas at around 6:15pm local time they play instruments resembling the panch shabad in unison (anhad shabad).
Go to time index 17:15 to listen