ਰੂਪ ਢਿੱਲੋਂ

ਕੀ ਸਾਡੀ ਪਂਜਾਬੀ ਲਈ ਵੀ ਇਹ ਖਤਰਾ ਹੁਣ ਹੈ?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3qbYFvOHwk

i THINK culturally probably could be promoted for Northern Indian languages or adapted in Africa / Native American cultures....but only if they want it..I doubt any European culture may consider it

I wonder how many languages which do not have an official alphabet or have English Alphabet imposed on them could benefit from adapting Gurmukhi? Maybe Aboriginal languages or African one? Or minority Indian languages or Native American ones? Or should it only be confined to Sikh or Panjabi communities?
 

http://www.5abi.com/5ratan/
 

Anger..No Emoji for Anger so that is how I am showing it..just the one word

Okay, I’ve decided to get this stuff down for anyone seriously interested in learning Panjabi - for once and for all.

That way, those people who periodically pop up on forums with questions regarding those first, tentative but monumentally important steps they should take in order to develop their Panjabi reading/writing language skills, will have something to follow. Plus, it’ll mean I wont have to retype this stuff out again and again in future.

First thing: Before anyone undertakes to learn anything that requires patience and persistence, they must first come to a place where the desire, the pure ‘want’ to learn is deep within them. Fall in love with the idea of yourself knowing Panjabi. Let this sustain you throughout your learning.

I, personally, am a BIG advocate of modern teaching approaches which utilise a person’s existing English skills to help them master Panjabi. I used such an approach to teach a nonPanjabi speaker for about 5 weeks over a summer holiday once, and was astounded at the fast progress. I myself was introduced to the basics of reading the language in the more traditional, ‘rote’ manner, where one first learns the alphabet (through ‘parroting’) and then moves on to increasingly complex words (and sentences) from there. Having been exposed to both modern and traditional approaches, I feel the more modern method allows learners to make faster progress – and is more fun!

The strategy the primer below adopts is to get a learner to understand the sounds associated with the various symbols of the Gurmukhi script (commonly used to write Panjabi) using English words. If this sounds confusing to you, don’t worry, it’ll all become obvious once you start the exercises. English readers should note that unlike the English language, in Panjabi the letters or symbols of the Gurmukhi alphabet only ever correspond to one particular sound. In time you will see the advantages of this over English.
Using the following approach, you will be reading and writing words (even possibly basic sentences) – before you have mastered the complete Gurmukhi alphabet. When you do eventually get to memorising the Gurmukhi alphabet by rote, this method makes that task infinitely easier as you will have already become familiar with some of the letters/symbols of alphabet beforehand.
Okay – are you ready!

Step 1: Download this Panjabi Primer. I swear by it.

Work your way through the first lesson. It’s easy. Give yourself a few hours somewhere quiet to do this. If you need to, briefly have a Panjabi reader read a few words with you to help you get started.

What you will cover REALLY helps to gain an understanding of the relationship between the symbols of the Gurmukhi alphabet and the sound they correspond to. By a few hours you will be able to write some basic English words in the Gurmukhi script. Minimal guidance from someone who knows how to read Gurmukhi can help, but isn’t absolutely necessary for lesson 1. Once you’ve done it and feel comfortable with the symbols and sounds that have been covered, try thinking of other English words you can write with the letters/symbols you’ve learned so far.

Work through the Primer steadily. Every time you start a new lesson, briefly go over what was covered in the last one before hand. Your knowledge will develop incrementally this way.

It might help to use a Panjabi knower to clarify the sounds of the symbols used in lesson 2, when you do start it


Remembering what you’ve learned.



Revisit what you have learned regularly, so that it gets reinforced in your memory. This doesn’t mean spending hours repeating material you’ve already covered. But go back to it, so that you retain your learning. REMEMBER, IT IS ONE THING TO LEARN SOMETHING – AND ANOTHER TO RETAIN THAT LEARNING – so practice frequently (in short bursts) because failing to go over what you have learned with some regularity causes it to diminish from your memory. That’s what we want to avoid, that gradual fading.

A good tip is to have a vocabulary list handy in a small note book, or as an image or file on your mobile phone/laptop. When you have five or ten spare minutes in a day – go over them. Do this on the train to work for example. Or use your ipod/mobile and headphones to play some of videos that are linked to below. This helps firmly establish the material in your mind in a way that doesn’t require too much effort. If you leave revisiting what you have covered for too long, you could easily end up in cycles of having to relearn parts of what you had previously grasped – simply because it has escaped from your memory because of time.

Another good tip is to use a mixture of reading AND writing when you re-cover material. So on one day, simply read the words/symbols you have covered on a prior occasion and on another write them down. This will reinforce the material both visually and kinesthetically, creating more pathways for retrieval from your memory.

Step 2: Once you’ve become comfortable with a few of the lessons in the Primer, it’s time to start learning the alphabet. About the third week after you have started the Primer would be a good time to introduce this into your learning. Start with this video.
 
 

I advise learning one line of the alphabet per week (alongside the material you are covering in the Primer). Note that the video will also help you to build up your Panjabi vocabulary.

Read a line of the alphabet to yourself at least five times, and then write the letters out on a piece of paper. Learning five letters a week, shouldn’t be too taxing. Plus you will already be familar with many of the letters from the exercises you’ve done from the Primer.
You can download a Powerpoint version of the above video which allows you to go through the letters at your own pace using mouse clicks, from here. It's called the 'Panjabi alphabet tutorial' in the presentation section.

Tip: The Gurmukhi alphabet is organised in a very scientific way. I found the video below very handy in highlighting this. It also helped to clarify the otherwise subtle distinctions between different sounds. I strongly advise learners to go through as many times as is neccesary after they have started learning the alphabet. English readers should note how proper tongue placement and aspiration are essential to correct enunciation in Panjabi – and if you don’t understand what this means or if it seems confusing to you, don’t worry, it was the same for me before I watched the video a few times!
 
 
 
 



FAQs.

How often should I study?


As a guide, in a week, I suggest having at least one long session (covering a complete, single lesson from the Primer) and then two subsequent fifteen minute ‘recap sessions’ later in the same week. In these ‘recap’ sessions revisit a representative selection of the example words from the Primer exercises and, later, when you start learning the alphabet, go over some of the lines of the alphabet in each ‘recap session’. Keep these sessions short and focused. In an ideal situation you could have 4 ‘recap’ sessions in addition to your main one, in a week. If you are really keen and inclined to study everyday, I would strongly advise giving yourself at least one day of nonstudy. The brain seems to process certain things in quite a mystical and unconscious way when learning, I’ve found giving yourself short breaks helps with this. But in the final analysis, learn to identify and adopt the strategies that help you to learn in the most efficiently way. Different people find different things helpful.



Where will this get me in terms of language acquisition?


By following the above you will cover the absolute essentials of the written language. By this I mean reading words, and basic sentences.



Where do I go from here?


The answer to the above question will differ according to your grasp of the spoken language. I imagine those wanting to learn the language will broadly come from three types of backgrounds.
 
In the first will be those who have no, or very little previous knowledge of the language, written or spoken (prior to starting the above). I think the next logical step for such people would be to learn to construct longer sentences in Panjabi. So we’re talking about ‘syntax’ here (or more simply put, the order of words in a sentence). To do this you need to steadily build up your Panjabi vocabulary. As a tip, when you start to do this - making it a habit to pay careful attention to the gender of nouns at the outset will be of great advantage later. Make the effort to do this! The second type would have had previous exposure to the spoken language to some degree, say via family circumstances but are not particularly fluent in speaking (a third generation Panjabi in the diaspora for example). Such a person may possess knowledge of at least some of the more rudimentary aspects of the language (like grammar and syntax), even if this understanding is implicit as opposed to explicit. For them I suggest focusing on learning to write what you already know how to speak, or at least hear around you. Take interesting words, phrases and/or sentences you hear around you and learn to write them down. Write down lines from Panjabi songs you like. Supplement this by reading basic books. Translate basic English sentences into Panjabi and vice versa. Make it your goal to know how to read/spell all the Panjabi words you already know, and then add to this vocabulary. For those who already had a good command of the spoken language but were previously unable to read and write it, once your reading speed picks up, I would suggest translating brief Panjabi newspaper or Internet articles that interest you, or small sections of books. Free Panjabi newspapers available from Gurdwaras may be of use to you in this. Websites such as Scribd, Siikhbookclun.com, panjabdigitalbrary and apnaorg also carry a wide selection of freely available Gurmukhi Panjabi books. Don’t be overambitious with translation exercises but at the same time make sure you stretch yourself. As a rule each translation exercise should bring a number of previously unknown words to your attention. Write these downs with their definitions in a notebook. This will help expand your Panjabi vocabulary. Start translating one page, then go onto two, and so forth.  
 
Panjabi dictionaries and typing in Gurmukhi

You can type in Gurmukhi with this site.


Here are two great Panjabi dictionaries you may find useful:

1) Punjabi University, Patiala dictionary

2) Srigranth dictionary


I hope this is of use to some of you. All the best to you and your learning experience. My last piece of advice is to simply get stuck in and enjoy the experience!
 
 

yes
http://www.5abi.com/5ratan/
 

Waheguru Ji
Admin can we get a section or sub-section for those learning Punjabi.  So, we can share tips and aggregate all materials related to Punjabi under this section.  We can also add grammer, santhya, chand bhand and dictionaries under this section.

I've done a bit and it's in the literature section. 

Waheguru Ji
Need a section on this forum dedicated to those who want to learn read and write Punjabi/Gurmukhi and everything else associated with it like Punjabi grammer, vocabulary and correct pronunciation/Santhya of Gurbani.  
Under this section we can compile books, articles and videos that teach written and spoken Punjabi.  As Punjabi is the key that will unlock puratan granths.

Do these two likes make it 4?

yes
http://www.5abi.com/5ratan/
 

Thanks. If you want I can collate them all here. It was normally Dalsingh100 doing that kind of stuff. I feel a bit arrogant to do that myself, which is why I haven't specifically done it like that. I had sent my Chita Te Kala to be made into an Audiobook but so far have not been told when and if that will be made available
 

http://www.punjabizm.com/forums-vachitarvaadlok-112834-5-1.html
Kind of related to the ਬਾਗ਼ੀ ਬੱਤੀ  post

https://apnaorg.com/intro/
 
interesting

Agreed. I've doing a lot of thinking about why Punjabi has failed post 1947 and these are my conclusions. Tis might be more relevant in the section I called Gurmukhi is it Punjabi Alphabet etc...
 
1) In Punjab a) Hindification / Urduisation/ Arabisation/ Angloisation is happening because fundamentally for a language to be used it has to have economic value. These others are taking over as in the rest of the Indian subcontinent Industrialisation has occurred and those languages are building a business and science vocab. Punjabi is not
b) Where intellectuals are developing such words its unnatural as they are being coined in the corridors of universities , or books like I myself am guilty and often these are taking Sanskrit or Arabic as the root and have no link with ordinary people's everyday life. It may be better just to absorb the English words for these things into Punjabi
c) Punjabis do not have the reading habit culturally. English, Russian etc do. Fact is they never did before Industrialisation in their countries, but post industrialization their languages fulfilled point a & b and that is why they have a reading public. Initially language in those cultures was also to communicate religion but now in a post industrial world it is everyone's language so its literature has succeeded. We don't have a reading public and in Punjab that is due to laziness, lack of education and all points discussed above
d) Industrialisation is needed in Punjab and despite my support for the farmers against the current Indian Regime, the situation will not improve until people in Punjab replace their farms with factories , service and tourist industry etc. If that doesn't happen there will be no jobs for the locals who will continue leaving or to secure a job will give Hindi and English preference. This has already happened. If not reversed in the next decade it is the end of Punjabi ( separate issue to the Gurmukhi alphabet )
2) in the west a) everything said in point 1 
b) lack of interest as Sikhi, Islam and Hindu faith can all be communicated in English nowadays. 
c) Laziness on part of UK Punjabis who see a foreign alphabet and run a mile to wanting to use English alphabet
d) If we don't speak Punjabi at home with our kids ( who already know English from TV, School and outside world and are frankly schooled in it) the next step of reading and writing is irrelevant
e) Bad teaching and over reliance on uneducated volunteers who are not educators and expectation that its only the Gurdwara's responsibility. This is not true. It's the fault of parents and ourselves.
f) No economic incentive to learn it
g) the most controversial comment I can make is we have limited ourselves to only look through religious eyes and not scientifically questioning ones. Too many uneducated Punjabi villagers ( and our parents who come from the same place) have looked at Sikhi through Hindu eyes, western defined ( The white man named Sikhi as Sikhism a religion) eyes and forget that Guru Nanak although a believer in God, did not mean an Abrahamic God or a Hindu one, but a concept set in the Mool Mantra which in 21st western terms is not too far off the George Lucas concept of the Force. Also enlightenment then as per this reading of the Mool Mantra is being educated and always seeking the truth and knowledge but never ever being able to comprehend it all. In this way the Sikh "God" is genderless and is ultimately not a physical God figure but an idea about creation. The Gurus within the knowledge of their century defined it as they understood it but careful not to define it too solidly. Also to communicate to the uneducated public had to put in in simple terms which sadly meant their metaphors have been taken literally. Sikhi should always be not redefining itself but comparing the Adi Granth to current knowledge and relooking at the world. 
 
We are famously taught how Guru Nanak rejected superstition and blind belief. And yet most of use are now more interested in the ceremonies, similar to the ones he criticized rather than the point the 10 Gurus made.
 
In short in terms of Punjabi Language, we need to go beyond such blind religious beliefs and like the Gurus question society and the universe. That means Punjabis need to educate themselves and have intellectual debates. It means Punjabi needs to become scientific.
 
Also to add to all of this,  we need 1) Rich Capitalists to make Punjab first an industrial society, then a post industrial society to evolve the language and make it useful 2) the Scientists etc then to make words and terms that fit the age and ensure they are part of the people's vocabulary 3) Give the general public economic reasons to speak and read punjabi..Art is not good enough on its own to convince them   

Great idea.  Will you have these discussions only on facebook or also on this forum.  

It seems the internet has given a big boost to Punjabi literature.  Sites that host Punjabi literature old and new get alot of readers.  People generally have better access to Punjabi books now.

Dass tried to get a Punjabi section going on this forum but seems like people were not interested.  Maybe, we can try again. 
 
 

Years ago I started writing fiction in Punjabi instead of English. This is documented elsewhere. It has been an arduous journey as I have been learning as I went along. My confidence grew when I found out that Latin American Spanish has changed from original Spanish but is still on the whole understandable to the original country. Same has happened to Canadian French and linguistically to other languages. Then I read an old study proving Punjabi kids raised in Handsworth Birmingham were subconsciously codifying Punjabi to English syntax, effectively creating their own creole or brand of Punjabi dialect. This boosted me even more so I chose to write like that.
 
As time went by I sought out Punjabi writers and intellectuals and found that in reality they did not exist in the way they do in the west and most are to put it unkindly Pindu, limited or not intellectually curious about the Punjabi language or fiction in that way. Nevetheless I pursued the idea of improving Punjabi fiction from what it is which is how I ended up writing in a new style which I labelled Vachitarvaad. But as the word Vaad proves the idea was to begin a literary movement. A unique western one in Punjabi.
Scroll down to the last entry on the link below and you will see vachitarvaad defined by the so called literary movement expert sin their study notes. I do not think it is 100% definition, but it is a good starting point. It was also nice to see that other Punjabi Literary Movements are mentioned.
 
https://www.chegg.com/flashcards/modern-literary-movements-b2e22cb0-ca81-4762-a0a7-0193c3134159/deck
 
I Myself defined it in Punjabi as below
 
ਨਵਾਂ ਵਿਚਿੱਤਰਵਾਦ (ਵਿਗਿਆਨ ) ਕਥਾ ਸਾਹਿਤ ਇੱਕ ਸੱਜਰਾ ਅੰਦਾਜ਼ ਹੈ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਸਾਹਿਤ ਲਈ ਜਿਹੜਾ ਮੈਂ ਬਹੁਤ ਮਿਹਨਤ ਤੇ ਸੋਚ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਬਾਅਦ ਸ਼ੁਰੂ ਕੀਤਾ ਹੈ। ਇਸ ਨਵੀਂ ਸਦੀ ਦੇ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਸਾਹਿਤ ਨੂੰ ਨਵੀ ਆਸ ਦੀ ਕਿਰਨ ਦੇ ਰੂਬਰੂ ਕਰਨ ਤੇ ਤਾਂ ਜੋ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਬੋਲੀ ਜਿਹੜੀ ਕਿ ਸਾਹਿਤ ਨਾਲ ਮਾਲਾਮਾਲ ਹੈ ੳੁਹ ਦੁਨੀਆਂ ਦੇ ਅੱਜ ਕੱਲ੍ਹ ਦੇ ਅਦਬੀ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਵਿੱਚ ਅਾਪਣੀ ਪੁਰਾਤਣ ਤੇ ਵਿਲੱਖਣ ਦਿਖ ਕਾੲਿਮ ਰੱਖਦੀ ਨਵੇਂ ਦਿਸਹੱਦੇ ਸਥਾਪਤ ਕਰ ਅਾਪਣੇ ਰੁਤਬੇ ਨੂੰ ਬਰਕਰਾਰ ਰੱਖ ਸਕੇ। ਸਾਡੇ ਸਾਹਿਤ ਨੇ ਸੌਂ ਸਾਲ਼ ਲਈ ਦੁਨੀਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਕੁੱਝ ਨਵਾਂ ਨਹੀਂ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਹੈ । ਇਸ ਲਈ ਜੱਗ ਨੇ ਸਾਨੂੰ ਅਡਿੱਠ ਕੀਤਾ ਹੈ। ਪੁਰਾਣੇ ਸਾਹਿਤਕਾਰ ਤੇ ਬੇਇਲਮ ਪ੍ਰੈਫੇਸਰਾਂ ਨੇ ਸਾਡਾ ਸਾਹਿਤ ਬਿਹਾ ਕੀਤਾ ਹੈ। ਫਿਰ ਵੀ ਪੈਸੇ ਪੱਛਮ ਦੇ ਅਮੀਰ ਲਿਖਾਰੀਆਂ ਤੋਂ ਲੈ ਲੈ ਕਿ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੇ ਕਮਤਰ ਲੇਖਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਵਾਹ ਵਾਹ ਕਰਦੇ ਨੇ ਅਤੇ ਢੂਹੀਆਂ ਤੇ ਥਪੀਆਂ ਮਾਰਦੇ ਨੇ! ਪਰ ਸੱਚ ਹੈ ਕੋਈ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਜਵਾਨ ਬਹੁਤਾ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਸਾਹਿਤ ਨੂੰ ਪੜ੍ਹ ਨਹੀਂ ਰਿਹਾ। ਕਾਤੋਂ ਪੜ੍ਹੇ ਜਦ ਅੰਗ੍ਰੇਜ਼ੀ ਜਾਂ ਹਿੰਦੀ ਸਾਹਿਤ ਤੋਂ ਹੀਣ ਹੈ? 
ਸਾਹਿਤ ਨੂੰ ਅੱਜ ਕੱਲ੍ਹ ਸਿਨੇਮਾ, ਟੀਵੀ ਜਾਂ ਕੰਪੂਯਿਟਰ ਨਾਲ਼ ਭਿੜਣਾ ਪੈਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਇਸ ਲਈ ਨਵੀਂ ਸ਼ੈਲੀ ਜ਼ਰੂਰੀ ਹੈ। ਮੈਂ ਖਾਸ ਇੰਗਲੈਂਡ ਦੇ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਬੋਲੀ ਦੇ ਤਲਬੇ ਨਾਲ਼ ਗੱਲ ਬਾਤ ਕਰਕੇ ਪਤਾ ਲਾੲਿਅਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ੳੁਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਇਹ ਸਾਰੀਆਂ ਕਹਾਣੀਆਂ ਅਕਾੳੂ "ਬੋਰਿੰਗ" ਲੱਗਦੀਆਂ ਹਨ। ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਹਿੰਦੀ ਫਿਲਮ ਜਾਂ ਦੁਨੀਆਂ ਦੀਆਂ ਮਹਸ਼ੂਰ ਫਿਲਮਾਂ ਵਰਗੀਆਂ ਕਹਾਣੀਆਂ ਚਾਹੀਦੀਆਂ ਨੇ। ਇਹੀ ਗੱਲ ਹੈ ਜਿੰਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨਾਲ਼ ਮੈਂ ਫੈਸਬੁੱਕ ਤੇ ਗੱਲ ਕੀਤੀ ਹੈ। ਚਾਲ਼ੀਆਂ ਸਾਲਾਂ ਤੋਂ ਹੇਠ ਲੋਕ ਕੁੱਝ ਨਵਾਂ ਹੀ ਭਾਲਦੇ ਨੇ, ਜਿਹੜਾ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੇ ਖਿਆਲਾਂ ਨਾਲ਼ ਮਿਲੇ।
ਸੋ ਅੱਠ ਸਾਲ ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਮੈਂ "ਨੀਲਾ ਨੂਰ" ਲਿੱਖ ਕੇ ਯੂ ਕੇ' ਚ ਛਾਪਿਆ ਸੀ। ਉਸ ਤੋਂ ਬਾਅਦ ਪੰਜਾਬ ਵਿੱਚ "ਭਰਿੰਡ" ਛਾਪੀ ਗਈ ਲਾਹੋਰ ਬੁੱਕਸ਼ਾਪ ਦੇ ਰਾਹੀ। ਇਹ ਸੀ ਦੁਨੀਆਂ ਦੀ ਪਹਿਲੀ ਵਿਚਿੱਤਰਵਾਦ ਲਹਿਰ ਦੀ ਕਿਤਾਬ ਅਤੇ ਨਮੂਨਾ। ਇਸ ਤੋਂ ਬਾਅਦ "ਓ" ਛਾਪਿਆ ਗਿਆ, ਇੱਕ ਅਨੋਖੀ ਕਹਾਣੀ ਜਿਸ ਵਿੱਚ ਅੰਗ੍ਰੇਜ਼ੀ,ਫਰਾਂਸੀਸ਼ੀ ਜਾਂ ਐਸਪਾਂਨੀਅਲ ਦੇ ਸਾਹਿਤਾਂ ਵਰਗੇ ਅਫਸਾਨੇ ਹਨ। ਗੋਰੇ ਇਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੀਆਂ ਕਹਾਣੀਆਂ ਨੂੰ " ਸਾਇੰਸ ਫਿਕਸ਼ਨ, ਜਾਂ ਮੈਜੀਕਲ ਰੀਅਲਇਸਮ ਆਖਦੇ ਨੇ। ਪਰ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੇ ਬੋਲੀਆਂ ਦੇ ਲੇਬਲ ਲਾਉਣਾ ਚੰਗਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਲੱਗਦਾ। ਤਾਈ ਮੈਂ ਇਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੀ ਕਹਾਣੀ ਨੂੰ ਨਾਂਅ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਹੈ ਵਚਿੱਤਰਵਾਦ। ਜਿਹੜਿਆਂ ਨੇ ਪੜ੍ਹ ਕੇ ਪਸੰਦ ਕੀਤੀਆਂ ਅਤੇ ਇਸ ਤਰ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੀਆਂ ਟੈਕਨੀਕ ਵਰਤਣਾ ਚਾਹੁੰਦੇ ਨੇ, ਸਮਝ ਲੋ ਕਿ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਵੀ ਇਸ ਨਵੀ ਲਹਿਰ ਦੇ ਹਾਮੀ ਹੋ ਤੇ ਹੱਕਦਾਰ ਹੋ । ਵੈਸੇ ਇਸ ਦਾ ਜਨਮ ਬਰਤਾਨੀਆ'ਚ ਹੀ ਹੋਇਆ, ਅਤੇ ਖਾਸ ਮੈਂਬਰ ਵਾਇਲੈਤੀਏ ਨੇ, ਬਾਗ਼ੀ ਬੱਤੀ ਦੇ ਸਦੱਸ। ਪਰ ੲਿਕੱਲੇ ਵਾਇਲੈਤ ਵਾਲ਼ੇ ਹੋਣ ਦੀ ਲੋੜ ਨਹੀਂ। ਇੱਦਾਂ ਲਿਖੋਂ ਤਾਂ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਆਪਣੇ ਆਪ ਨੂੰ ਵਚਿੱਤਰਵਾਦ ਲਿਖਾਰੀ ਆਖ ਸਕਦੇ ਹੋ।
ਵਚਿੱਤਰਵਾਦ ਦੀਅਾਂ ਵੀ ਤਿੰਨ ਕਿਸਮ ਦੀਆਂ ਕਹਾਣੀਆਂ ਨੇ। ਗੋਥਿਕਾ ( ਓ ਇਸ ਦੀ ਮਿਸਾਲ ਹੈ), ਪਰਾਕਰਮੀ ( ਸਮੁਰਾਈ ਅਤੇ ਗੁੰਡਾ) ਜਾਂ ਵਿਗਿਆਨਕ (ਸਮੁਰਾਈ ਅਤੇ ਭਰਿੰਡ)। ਇਹ ਹੈ ਪਹਿਲੀ ਨਿਸ਼ਾਨੀ। ਦੂਜੀ ਪੈਦਾ ਹੋਈ ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਮੇਰੇ ਵਰਗੇ ਪੱਛਮੀ ਜੰਮਪਲ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਨੂੰ ਘੁੰਮ ਘਮਾਕੇ ਅੰਗ੍ਰੇਜ਼ੀ ਵਾਂਗਰ ਵਰਤਦੇ ਨੇ ਸੋ ਆਮ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਲਈ ਗਲਤ ਜਾਂ ਅਣੋਖੀ ਪੰਜਾਬੀ ਗਰੈਮਰ ਜਾਪਦੀ ਹੈ। ਪਰ ਇਸ ਹੀ ਕਰਕੇ ਵਚਿੱਤਰਵਾਦ ਦੇ ਸਿਰਜਕ ਨੇ ਜਾਣ ਬੁੱਝਕੇ ਵਾਕ ਬਦਲ ਕੇ, ਅਨਿਯਮਿਤ ਗਰੈਮਰ ਨੂੰ ਕਰ ਕੇ ਨਵੀਂ ਬਣਾ ਦਿੱਤੀ ਹੈ। ਹਰ ਦੇ ਪੱਲੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੈਂਣੀ, ਪਰ ਸੱਚ ਹੈ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਦੇ ੳੁੱਘੇ ਲਿਖਾਰੀਆਂ ਦੇ ਵਾਕ ਵੀ ਆਮ ਬੰਦੇ ਦੇ ਪੱਲੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਪੈਂਦੇ! ਗੱਲ ਹੈ ਪਾਠਕ ਨੂੰ ਨਵਾਂ ਅਨੁਭਵ ਦਿਓ!
ਸੋ ਜੇ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਇਸ ਬਾਰੇ ਗੱਲ ਬਾਤ ਕਰਨੀ ਚਾਹੁੰਦੇ ਹੋ ਜਾਂ ਆਪਣੇ ਲੇਖ ਇੱਥੇਂ ਜਾਂ ਬਾਗ਼ੀ ਬੱਤੀ ਵਾਲੇ ਪੇਜ ਤੇ ਛਾਪਣਾ ਚਾਹੁੰਦੇ ਹੋ ਤਾਂ ਮੈਂਬਰ ਜ਼ਰੂਰ ਬਣੋ।
ਯਾਦ ਰੱਖੋਂ ਦੁਨੀਆਂ ਦੇ ਸਭ ਤੋਂ ਮਸ਼ਹੂਰ ਲੇਖਕਾਂ ਨੇ ਪੁਰਾਤਨ ਭਾਸ਼ਾ ਦਾ ਹਰ ਅਸੂਲ ਤੋੜਿਆ ਹੈ! 
 
 
 
I want to now elaborate further in English here. Ideally the concept behind Vachitarvaad is a bit more than just this. Originally I had set out to begin a group for those writers who want to write specifically in Punjabi but 1) Want to Rebel against the ground rules set by traditionalists both in context of syntax,  freedom of expression and experimentation with language AND in context strictly to give Punjabis born in the west and raised and primarily exposed to English ( be they Sikh, Hindu. Muslim or otherwise) a loose group they could be a part of to express their world view in Punjabi and make it a medium to reflect the stories they want to tell and about their experiences of growing up in the west or writing in genres or mixing them all up. In this sense the intention was to defy accepted grammar rules , etc. I called this Baagi Batti ( Rebelious Flame ) and even adopted a graphic I found on the internet years ago of a match with water for a flame. This was used on the back of my second published book , Bharind. As time went by not many Brits or Canadians joined me, but only those born in Punjab did and it eventually evolved into a facebook page calle Vachitarvaad   ਨਵਾਂ ਵਿਚਿੱਤਰਵਾਦ (ਵਿਗਿਆਨ ) ਕਥਾ ਸਾਹਿਤ  as the idea of mixing up all sorts of Indian and western literary techniques with science fiction, fantasy, magical realism etc came up. In the end I am only one of a few writers who have attempted to experiment with the Punjabi language. There are others such as Pargat Singh Sautauj and Mudassar Bashir who have done so with story ideas.
 
What I am hoping is if there is anyone out there from the west who wants to read Punjabi fiction or one day write in it, to start a discourse about it and maybe help this to become the umbrealla under which we all start creating our own western Punjabi Literature.
 
If anyone is genuinely interested rather than click and read or press like, please give your views here and maybe this could be our way to connect and encourage each other.
 
In my own specific case I have strongly adapted English syntax and storytelling methods in my own work which can easily be found on the internet if anyone wants to see an example

In short the idea is not necessarily to create a different type of literary movement in terms of something like Modernism, Romanticism etc, but more like a unit of few like minded individuals with broadly the same goals, such as Beat Poets or Bloomsbury group. Only unlike the latter two we don't know each other or are physically too far away from each other to meet up. I would like to propose the Sikhawareness forum as the conduit of communication and organisation,
 
No leader or Pardaan is required. No ਫ਼ਰਕ should take place.  Despite my title of the post it does not mean we exclude people from the subcontinent, or Panjabis who are of different castes ( As Sikhs we fundamentally reject such crap anyhow) or even religions. Again as Sikhs unlike other religions we do not call  ours the true one. We accept all and tell a Hindu for example to be the best Hindu he can etc. Anyhow such like matters are to be discussed and have already been discussed under other relevant topics. So this means the Muslim majority who make up most Panjabis can partake if they wish. Though I personally prefer to promote the Gurmukhi writing system, we cannot be prejudice to other alphabets including Latin / English one.
 
If there is an appetite for this , this thread will soon show that, as it will if there is not.
 
My proposal is simple,
- Promotion of Reading Gurmukhi books and literature, whether religious / philosophical or Poetry  or fiction,
- Promotion of contemporary Panjabi language, in particular the way it has evolved outside Panjab ( India and Pakistan) for example in English Language countries. 
- Pride in our different format of Panjabi, be it due to lexicon, grammar or Style. And to write in its authentic voice primarily for our future generations but also to have some compromise to make it work for Panjabis from Panjab where in reality most readers are from.
- Experimenting in our own way with the language and style ( thus the proposed group title ਬਾਗ਼ੀ ਬੱਤੀ ( see link...You can join this group to discuss the same too... https://www.facebook.com/groups/362576490509036/  ).
- Creating our own literature
 
If people are interested let me know here. As there were only 5 Pyaray, I see no concern in worrying about getting more than that in numbers anyhow.
I long ago labelled my own style as ਵਿਚਿਤਰਵਾਦ as a mash up of typical English literature in areas as diverse as Sci-Fi and Fantasy . Magical realism and new type of sentence structure. Taht can be up for discussion, but no one has to follow that way of doing things
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

I rather talk about the language on my other thread than carry this one on if this is where it leads . My difficulty with other subjects on this forum is I am A SIKH but to me calling it a religion was really a western idea. If it was not seen in simple terms of mattha teking in front of the GGS, people would realise it  is actually Sikhi and not Sikhism...thus the tenets and ideas can be developed more as a chosen way of life and philosophy....which will lead to the rational side of Sikhi dealing with Science etc..and thus it is an eastern philosophical school of thought taught by 10 teachers whose ideas should be revered rather than blindly praying to them like their are Hindu Gods. Is that not the very rejection they practised? Going off piste now...sorry

Re the film it wasn't the Jatt aspect I was interested in at all, in fact it is reduced to just his character name in it. Other aspects of the film mean its a big leap in film making that all.
re all the other things you have said about it,..well you are correct. I come historically from the Jatts and yes it is us who go on and on and on and on about it. And yes all your other points are valid. But if you are encouraging me to stick too doing my thing, I encourage you to ignore and carry on doing your contribution ..the reality id its not just Panjabis..95% of the word population is as stupid as you just described and always will be...its the easy and comfortable path for them 
 
 

Anyone who has the word Jatt in his song to be honest or any other caste name..So many singers do it I can't be more specific than that other than googling up all their names and songs...but it isn't just the singers...normal people still use it for marriage proposals etc

That;s true. When I sing its praises I am only thinking about language and quality of film. Along with the original Gandasa story it is a reflection of a certain regionand time period. Caste has no space nowadays for sure. But even look at all the songs Sikhs singers still sing...our people just can't seem to let go of it

your participation is enough. i feel like this is a scene out of the Magnificent 7 where I now say ...That's 2