The Khalsa Fauj

History of turban is very old in Asia. People have been wearing turbans for thousands of years. During the Mughal empire, rulers started to wear turban as a symbol of their crown. Many people wore it as a part of their self respect and as a symbol of supporting the practice of good virtues. It was also worn as a right and symbol of freedom to stand up against tyrany. During the Mughal rule, everyone was totally prohibited from wearing a turban other than Muslims. Muslim rulers and religious hierarchy declared the turban to be their crown (Symbol of State Power). They also initiated harsh rules upon non-Muslims which led to harsh punishsments upon them. They were even put to death for wearing their turban and keeping long hair. Religious leaders and Mullas (religious priests) used to issue these orders. Violations of human rights were so rampant that they are hard to describe. Non Muslims were even robbed of their hard earned money. They were deprived of the basic needs of life. Everyone who dared to speak out againt these injustices was harshly dealt with and eliminated. People of all walks of life were terrified and extremely upset over these injustices. No one had the courage to speak out against these human rights violations. This task was undertaken by Guru Nanak who is known as a crusader for human rights and values. He advocated the cause of humanity without any discrimination based on color, race, caste or creed. His fifth successor, Guru Arjan, was martyred for this global thought of human rights and values. This global thought embraces humanity without discrimination based upon color, race, caste or creed. It exhorts every male and female to live with diginity and without discrimination on the basis of gender. Below is a hymn composed by Guru Arjan which emphasizes this philiosphy. This hymn is taken from page 97 of Guru Granth Sahib. ਸਭੇ ਸਾਝੀਵਾਲ ਸਦਾਇਨਿ ਤੂੰ ਕਿਸੈ ਨ ਦਿਸਹਿ ਬਾਹਰਾ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥ Translation: O Brother! I consider all beings on this earth as mine; all of them are partners (equal). O God! I consider all of them to be your creation and every one should have equal rights without discrimination. Guru Arjan, the prophet of human rights who gave this slogan, was made to suffer severe torture. He embraced martyrdom when he was forced to sit on a hot plate while hot sand was also being poured on his head. This occurred because he spoke against tyrany and injustices committed on non-Muslims. Some of the rights he spoke in favor of were the ability to keep hair and wear turban. He also spoke against the exploitation of non-Muslims. In the dialogue below with Muslim leaders, he brought the violations of human rights to the knowledge of the rulers and also emphasized the importance of hair and turban. Hymn below is present on page 1083-84 of Guru Granth Sahib Ji. ਮਾਰੂ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ ਅਲਹ ਅਗਮ ਖੁਦਾਈ ਬੰਦੇ ॥ ਛੋਡਿ ਖਿਆਲ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਕੇ ਧੰਧੇ ॥ ਹੋਇ ਪੈ ਖਾਕ ਫਕੀਰ ਮੁਸਾਫਰੁ ਇਹੁ ਦਰਵੇਸੁ ਕਬੂਲੁ ਦਰਾ ॥੧॥ ਸਚੁ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਯਕੀਨ ਮੁਸਲਾ ॥ ਮਨਸਾ ਮਾਰਿ ਨਿਵਾਰਿਹੁ ਆਸਾ ॥ ਦੇਹ ਮਸੀਤਿ ਮਨੁ ਮਉਲਾਣਾ ਕਲਮ ਖੁਦਾਈ ਪਾਕੁ ਖਰਾ ॥੨॥ ਸਰਾ ਸਰੀਅਤਿ ਲੇ ਕੰਮਾਵਹੁ ॥ ਤਰੀਕਤਿ ਤਰਕ ਖੋਜਿ ਟੋਲਾਵਹੁ ॥ ਮਾਰਫਤਿ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਰਹੁ ਅਬਦਾਲਾ ਮਿਲਹੁ ਹਕੀਕਤਿ ਜਿਤੁ ਫਿਰਿ ਨ ਮਰਾ ॥੩॥ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ ਕਤੇਬ ਦਿਲ ਮਾਹਿ ਕਮਾਹੀ ॥ ਦਸ ਅਉਰਾਤ ਰਖਹੁ ਬਦ ਰਾਹੀ ॥ ਪੰਚ ਮਰਦ ਸਿਦਕਿ ਲੇ ਬਾਧਹੁ ਖੈਰਿ ਸਬੂਰੀ ਕਬੂਲ ਪਰਾ ॥੪॥ ਮਕਾ ਮਿਹਰ ਰੋਜਾ ਪੈ ਖਾਕਾ ॥ ਭਿਸਤੁ ਪੀਰ ਲਫਜ ਕਮਾਇ ਅੰਦਾਜਾ ॥ ਹੂਰ ਨੂਰ ਮੁਸਕੁ ਖੁਦਾਇਆ ਬੰਦਗੀ ਅਲਹ ਆਲਾ ਹੁਜਰਾ ॥੫॥ ਸਚੁ ਕਮਾਵੈ ਸੋਈ ਕਾਜੀ ॥ ਜੋ ਦਿਲੁ ਸੋਧੈ ਸੋਈ ਹਾਜੀ ॥ ਸੋ ਮੁਲਾ ਮਲਊਨ ਨਿਵਾਰੈ ਸੋ ਦਰਵੇਸੁ ਜਿਸੁ ਸਿਫਤਿ ਧਰਾ ॥੬॥ ਸਭੇ ਵਖਤ ਸਭੇ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਲਾ ॥ ਖਾਲਕੁ ਯਾਦਿ ਦਿਲੈ ਮਹਿ ਮਉਲਾ ॥ ਤਸਬੀ ਯਾਦਿ ਕਰਹੁ ਦਸ ਮਰਦਨੁ ਸੁੰਨਤਿ ਸੀਲੁ ਬੰਧਾਨਿ ਬਰਾ ॥੭॥ ਦਿਲ ਮਹਿ ਜਾਨਹੁ ਸਭ ਫਿਲਹਾਲਾ ॥ ਖਿਲਖਾਨਾ ਬਿਰਾਦਰ ਹਮੂ ਜੰਜਾਲਾ ॥ ਮੀਰ ਮਲਕ ਉਮਰੇ ਫਾਨਾਇਆ ਏਕ ਮੁਕਾਮ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਦਰਾ ॥੮॥ ਅਵਲਿ ਸਿਫਤਿ ਦੂਜੀ ਸਾਬੂਰੀ ॥ ਤੀਜੈ ਹਲੇਮੀ ਚਉਥੈ ਖੈਰੀ ॥ ਪੰਜਵੈ ਪੰਜੇ ਇਕਤੁ ਮੁਕਾਮੈ ਏਹਿ ਪੰਜਿ ਵਖਤ ਤੇਰੇ ਅਪਰਪਰਾ ॥੯॥ ਸਗਲੀ ਜਾਨਿ ਕਰਹੁ ਮਉਦੀਫਾ ॥ ਬਦ ਅਮਲ ਛੋਡਿ ਕਰਹੁ ਹਥਿ ਕੂਜਾ ॥ ਖੁਦਾਇ ਏਕੁ ਬੁਝਿ ਦੇਵਹੁ ਬਾਂਗਾਂ ਬੁਰਗੂ ਬਰਖੁਰਦਾਰ ਖਰਾ ॥੧੦॥ ਹਕੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਬਖੋਰਹੁ ਖਾਣਾ ॥ ਦਿਲ ਦਰੀਆਉ ਧੋਵਹੁ ਮੈਲਾਣਾ ॥ ਪੀਰੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ਭਿਸਤੀ ਸੋਈ ਅਜਰਾਈਲੁ ਨ ਦੋਜ ਠਰਾ ॥੧੧॥ ਕਾਇਆ ਕਿਰਦਾਰ ਅਉਰਤ ਯਕੀਨਾ ॥ ਰੰਗ ਤਮਾਸੇ ਮਾਣਿ ਹਕੀਨਾ ॥ ਨਾਪਾਕ ਪਾਕੁ ਕਰਿ ਹਦੂਰਿ ਹਦੀਸਾ ਸਾਬਤ ਸੂਰਤਿ ਦਸਤਾਰ ਸਿਰਾ ॥੧੨॥ Meaning: (He addressed the Mughal rulers and religious priests) Oh brother! Allah is beyond description; all of us belong to God. You should discard all those laws that you have made to protect only yourself. These violate basic human rights. Do not violate the human rights of humanity using these laws. You should know that you are only a guest in this world. Give up your own ego and accept God as the Ruler because all are subjects of God and thus are equal. Stop your immoral designs; put your faith in truth and earn respect and credibility for yourself; surrender yourself to God; make your body a Mosque of God. Bring your faith on truth and use this as your prayer mat. Make God’s praise as the ruler of your mind; whose rule is good and forever true. God’s praise is to treat everyone equal and to not hinder them from preforming their rights. Also make this your religious code of conduct (Sharia Law). Live upto this tradition and give up your erratic thinking and spiritual education; understand the reality by eliminating the wrong egotistic thinking. The whole world is the creation of God; God’s creation is not limited to anyone. (Thus do not be cruel to God’s people and do not violate the human rights.) Does the Quran, which is the basis of your life, only give you the right to live? Stop your self from the evil thinking of your mind which makes you steal the rights of others. This can only be accomplished if you control your five evils: lust, anger, greed, worldly attachments and ego. With the discipline of enternal truth, stop yourself from evil deeds and consider the rights of others as equally important. The Mecca which you consider the symbol of God’s love and enlightenment, do you speak and live accordingly to that understanding? Rather, you are making a joke of that love and affection. God’s worship is extremely beautiful which distributes the aroma of love leading to destruction of jealousy and hatred. You use the name of Allah as a tool and instead of love and affection, you are violating human rights. Such a person is a holy person who recognizes the real truth and lives a truthful life. He is a Haji (visitor of Mecca) who corrects his thoughts, gives up ego, and adopts brotherhood of peace in this world created by God (his coming into this world is then accepted). He is a real Mulla who becomes humble and worships the True God and educates himself about spirituality, stays away from evil deeds, and does not mislead others. A true Mulla also stops others from doing wrong deeds such as violations of human rights. He always remembers that all of humanity is the creation of God. A true Mulla propagates this thinking so that all of humanity lives together in peace and harmony. When you repeat the name of Allah according to Muslim code of conduct (e.g. Tasbi) you call him the provider of Justice. Accept good moral conduct as your curcumcition. You should become brave and adopt this character by advocating justice against inhumanity. Do you consider everyone as a part of your brotherhood. All of the worldly kings are not the real kings because they violate human rights of others due to their arrogance. They themselves are doomed and it is only God who is everlasting. Have courage to explain this to the worldly kings; only then can you call yourself a real Judge or religious person. NOTE: By prohibiting the right of keeping uncut hair and turban, you are violating the human rights of the people. You consider turban to be a symbol of your state of power and hair as symbol of your masculinity. First understand the significance of hair and turban. Firstly, a person who wears a turban is to always remember God who is the creator of this universe. Secondly, such a person is content and thirdly is humble. In other words, a person should be tollerent of others. Fourthly, he wishes the well being of everyone in his heart. The fifth quality is wisdom. Use wisdom to adopt these qualities and balance your thoughts along with maintaining high moral standarads. With sincerety and discipline, give up the bad deeds which rob the others of their rights. Seek to have the good habits by always remembering God. Not only that, consider all of humanity as equal. Advocate this truth that all of humanity is created by God who is the greatest and divine. Therefore, do not deprive the poor of their rightous earning (halal) so live honestly as it is respectable and honorable (this is the real method of performing halal). One who recognizes the truth accepts this world as heaven as the Creator is omnipresent. On the otherhand, you yourself consider yourself Almighty and pass judgements against others. Consider yourself as a good soul and be loyal to God and God’s people. Prohibit yourself from violating the rights of others and change your evil intentions. As a symbol of that divine thought, keep your hair uncut. Wear your turban as a symbol of self-respect. (Everyone should have the right to wear a turban without any discrimination of race, color, caste or creed so that people can promote virtues by wearing it). Guru Arjan, the prophet of human rights and peaceful means, was thus killed through means of inhumane torture by making him sit on a hot plate and pouring hot sand on his head. Society as a whole should be proud of the sacrfices for humanity. Now we must take steps to ensure that we do not lead into simalar situations witnessed in the ancient times. This is a part of our gloriouse history for which not only the Sikhs but every peace loving person should feel proud of. In the end, society today needs such people who follow these virtues more than ever. A Turban wearing person is a crusader for human rights and wishes well being of everyone. Some questions arise: 1. Is the modern democracy opposed to the promoters of human rights (Sikhs) having the right to wear their turban? 2. If yes, then is it worth calling it a democracy? 3. If the answer to the above question is yes, then is this democracy not similar to the tyrants of the past? Is it not supportive of the regimes that forced innocents to sit on a hot plates and behead those who exercise their right to wear a turban? Same argument that was presented to the rulers of ancient times is also before the modern world of today which claims to be a protector of human rights. Depriving Sikhs from wearing their turbans is equvilent to the rulers of ancient times that made Guru Arjan sit on a hot plate. Is this kind of behaviour acceptable in the modern free world? Which actions will the modern democratic bodies take? Will they permit peace loving people around the world to wear their turbans or will they violate human rights by implementing a ban on wearing turbans. To deprive a Sikh of his right to wear a turban is equivalent to killing him by forcing him to sit on hot plate. Prohibiting innocent people from wearing turbans denies their basic human rights such as education, employment and other elements of life. We sincerely hope that the United Nations takes steps towards lifting this ban and setting an example for future generations to look back upon. With Thanks, Baldev Singh (Rexdale, Brampton)

Please read Maaru Mahala 5va on Pg. 1083 and Mahla 1 on Pg. 140 and Pg. 141. Those shabads tell us about proper Halal, proper nevaaj, etc. etc.

Arth situation has been cleared up. Now I will clear up building situation. No one came up with 5.5 million dollars. Gurduara has a mortgage payment just like any other building. That building is worth a lot more than 5.5 million but Gurudara Trustees got a good deal because the Church had gone bankrupt. There was a Harvest Church there. Other than that, sangat chipped in cash to get the Guruduara opened. People picked up loans and gave in whatever they could. Some input $20,000 some did more or less. Gurduara is there to promote Gurmat philosophy and often runs classes related to Gurmat. Schedule for Gurduara services is linked below: Gurduara_Schedule.zip

I replied in the other thread about funding so there is no rush.

I understand. Everyone in this country works to earn a living. There is always cash output once we get input. You would have to ask jeonwala about cash. I would not do that. I don't ask anyone for cash like that. He prob. will wait 3-4 months than pay cash because he also drives truck to make his living. Other than that he usually asks others for cash to support his cause so I don't think he has cash to give.

Well, my main point was that Sahibzadas were much greater spiritually than Shiv or Brahmaa or Vishnu so that was my point and you said you agree with that so there is no chakkar. However, I am not sure how Shiv was devine or how kali is divine. Crocodile acts like a crocodile, tiger acts like a tiger but Shiv being a human, didn't act like a human. He was basically: Kartoot Pasoo Kee Maanas Jaat He also chopped of head of his own son in anger other than killing the son of poor merchant. Mind has to be prepared to go into war and fight in war. There has to be will inside to fight. Stories and comparisons alone don't turn cowards into warriors because if they did, Hindus had a lot more stories than Sikhs. Sikhs relied on Guru's Shabad and Gurmat to get the inner strength needed to fight in war and achieve victory. They had marytdoms of Guru Arjan, Guru Tegh Bahadur, Sahibzadas and Sikhs to look forward to as encouragement. However, encouragement alone doesn't get the job done. Inner strength is needed too. You might encourage someone to go into war and prepare them with lots of history but if the person gets fear at first sights of dead bodies or weapons, the person will be done. All the preparation will go useless so inner stregth is as important as encouragement. Regarding Bajjar Kurehits, they are just that. Bajjar kurehits. Everyone must avoid them. Hindu or Sikh or Muslim or Christian or whomever because if a person believes in God, person must also keep hair to accept hukam of God. Intoxicants corrupt the mind so they must also be avoided to prevent damage due to influence from intoxicants. Fornication and adultery must be kept away from to keep honor, trust and loyalty. Killing animal slowly by making it suffer is also very evil. This must also be avoided. Guru Nanak encouraged Muslims to stop cutting hair and stop doing halal as written in Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Oh that is very good. Two monts isn't a long time. I don't have cash to fund anything. However, once the person does have some time, we can talk without problem. I don't know about singhsabha if they want to pay half. You can ask them. Do you want phone # of jeonwala? If yes, do send me a pm. Jeonwala seems to be really uptempo on having a debate. Is it possible for me to know the name of this katha vachak?

Those audios have nothing to do with singhsabha. Those are actual live debates between scholars. E.g. The Dr. Jodh Singh one is the one he had on radio where he was asked questions. Please open the links and listen before just saying their points have been answered. I don't have time to go through forums. Maybe you can post which points have been answered so that no one brings them up here. By the way, I am not in the mood of debate here because I am a bit busy these days.

I don't want to get into debate here because it would take too long without any solution but I will see in future if I get some time. Guru Da Sikh wanted to indulge in debate online. Indulging in debate online wastes too much time. I already spent half day yes. trying to reply to threads. I could have done a lot of important work in that time so I try to limit debates online.

I would like to participate there but it would take too long and it wouldn't be very beneficial. It would be best to arrange debate in the Toronto area to have a proper one. Forum debates don't provide much benefit because not many get access.

I am not sure how Guru Da Sikh person got the info that Bipran Ke Reet is mentioned in Dasam Granth because it isn't. It isn't even in Sarabloh Granth. It is in the edited version of poetry titled 'Khalsa Mero Roop Hai Khaas'. Sarabloh Granth says: Khalsa Kaal Purakh Kee Fauj Edited version says: Khalsa Akaal Purakh Kee Fauj Are you sure about your statements on Charitropakhyan? If yes, please inform Lamba because he is in New York and might get into a Dasam Granth debate. Lamba sure didn't fair well in his first three-four debates. I will post some links to talk on Dasam Granth held on radio. http://www.singhsabhacanada.com/Audio/55 Dr. Jodh Singh in audio below http://www.singhsabhacanada.com/Audio/37 http://www.singhsabhacanada.com/Audio/35 http://www.singhsabhacanada.com/Audio/13 http://www.wakeupkhalsa.com/talk-shows.php More links will be posted later.

Are you sure about the above claims because it seems you have not read or understood Dasam Granth. You might be asking who my ustaad is. My ustaad is Guru Granth Sahib Ji. I don't follow physical bodies. Why would Hindus and RSS support anti-DG crew? Because they oppose devi devtas? I am sure you aren't capable of debating Dasam Granth because if you start you will be running to Admin for ban in a hurry. If someone wishes to debate Dasam Granth, we can hold program in Toronto area to debate. Internet debates are useless and take too long. It would be best to have debate in public where video is recorded.

I understand what you are trying to get at but the quotes used are integral to the shabads. Central message of every shabad is basically singing the praises of one God. That doesn't give us an option to ignore the rest of the content in the shabad. We must understand the whole shabad and learn wisdom of Gurmat. I still wouldn't use kaali or mahakaal or Shiv to compare Sikh shaheeds. Also, paap is paap. Doesn't matter if someone has taken Amrit or not. If a person isn't Amritdhari, doesn't mean the person is free to do paap. Lekha of everything is taken into account by God. If we go by no such thing as paap until Amrit, do whatever and take Amrit when the person is like 55 or 60 which is what Punjabis tend to do. This is why Sikhi hasn't been able to spread because there aren't many that follow it enough to spread it. Other than that, I can't do much about na maanu, kabee naa maanu birtee of anyone. I have given 5 shabads about Shiv so rest is up to sangat to decide for themselves.

Gurbani says the following about God: ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਨਾ ਆਵੈ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਓਹੁ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਮਹਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੧੩॥ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਧਨੁ ਸੰਚਿਆ ਸਾਬਤੁ ਪੂੰਜੀ ਰਾਸਿ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਦਰਗਹ ਮੰਨਿਆ ਗੁਰ ਪੂਰੇ ਸਾਬਾਸਿ ॥੧੪॥੧॥੨॥੧੧॥ ਕਰਿ ਪੰਜੀਰੁ ਖਵਾਇਓ ਚੋਰ ॥ ਓਹੁ ਜਨਮਿ ਨ ਮਰੈ ਰੇ ਸਾਕਤ ਢੋਰ ॥੨॥ ਸਗਲ ਪਰਾਧ ਦੇਹਿ ਲੋਰੋਨੀ ॥ ਸੋ ਮੁਖੁ ਜਲਉ ਜਿਤੁ ਕਹਹਿ ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਜੋਨੀ ॥੩॥ ਜਨਮਿ ਨ ਮਰੈ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਰਹਿਓ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੪॥੧॥ ਸਚੁ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਤੁਮਾਰਾ ਤਖਤਿ ਨਿਵਾਸੀ ॥ ਆਇ ਨ ਜਾਵੈ ਮੇਰਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ॥੩॥ ਜੈਸੀ ਮੈ ਆਵੈ ਖਸਮ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਤੈਸੜਾ ਕਰੀ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਵੇ ਲਾਲੋ ॥ ਪਾਪ ਕੀ ਜੰਞਞ ਲੈ ਕਾਬਲਹੁ ਧਾਇਆ ਜੋਰੀ ਮੰਗੈ ਦਾਨੁ ਵੇ ਲਾਲੋ ॥ ਸਰਮੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਦੁਇ ਛਪਿ ਖਲੋਏ ਕੂੜੁ ਫਿਰੈ ਪਰਧਾਨੁ ਵੇ ਲਾਲੋ ॥ Who is that Khasam that Guru Nanak got Baani from? Please try to understand whole of Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Not one shabad individually. When doing aarth, make sure the aarth doesn't cut another shabad's philosophy. Those who are fully committed to Gurmat are called atheists but those who try to show and prove contradictions in Gurmat are shown to be holy. What a scene the world is. What could Guru Granth Sahib Ji do if the Sikh is at fault? ਕਬੀਰ ਸਾਚਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਕਿਆ ਕਰੈ ਜਉ ਸਿਖਾ ਮਹਿ ਚੂਕ ॥ ਅੰਧੇ ਏਕ ਨ ਲਾਗਈ ਜਿਉ ਬਾਂਸੁ ਬਜਾਈਐ ਫੂਕ ॥ ੧੫੮॥

If you are in Toronto, we can arrange for meeting on weekend at a Gurduara and discuss viakaran and vishraams. We must not have hatred but seek Gurmat gyan and understanding of Gurmat so that no one can say there is contradiction in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. How would you feel if someone said Guru Granth Sahib Ji has contradiction and the basis was aarths done based on someone's personal view of viakaran? Kaums that have success are the ones that prepare for future in advance. Our kaum doens't even prepare when the axe in on the head. That is why we are stuck at 25 million and even 90% of those do bajjar kurehits. We don't want to understand Gurmat to get gyan and to spread gyan. If someone tries to spread gyan, we run after the person with a hammer asking why he / she spreads Gurmat. What was need to prove to British that we aren't Hindus? The reason was that we didn't understand Gurmat so we did karam kaandi activities and there wasn't muuch difference between us and Hindus. Muslims say Mohammed is the way to God, Christians say Jesus is, Hindus say their religion is, Gurmat said truth is the way to God. Gurbani says God doesn't take avtaar so it is manmat to say Guru Nanak was God. Guru Nanak was the light that God sent to enlighten the world about dharam karam and stop them from karam kaand.

We don't make up aarth of bani, we just understand what Gurubani says. I answered some of your questions in the previous post but others will be answered here. I have never read Ameer Singh's teeka and taksali aarths are as wide open as grand canyon. They say that each tukh cane have many many aarths. Sahib Singh's steek is good but he wasn't SatGuru. If his aarths go against core Gurmat philosophy, then they out to be corrected. Gyani Harbans Singh just copied others made minor changes. Bhai Viir Singh also wrote that meat was served in langar during times of Guru Angad Ji. He also said just mool mantar was recited when Amrit was prepared. Do you agree with those things of his? If no, then I don't have to take his aarths as final authority. All of the above vidvaans did aarths when we were starting to understand Gurbani. They were bound to make mistakes as they weren't God. Now we must keep studying Gurbani and make sure that aarths don't contradict with other shabads. What is more important? Prof. Sahib Singh's or Harbans SIngh's version of viakaran or Gurmat sidhant? I take Gurmat sidhant but viakaran is very important. Gurbani is written in poetic manners so that is also very important. Even Prof. Sahib Singh said that his teeka has shortcomings. Telling someone to shut up is not an action of a wise person. Gurmat tells you to be rude? What use if viakaran if a person is lost in viakaran alone instead of understanding message of Gurbani? Gurbani says: ਮਿਠਤੁ ਨੀਵੀ ਨਾਨਕਾ ਗੁਣ ਚੰਗਿਆਈਆ ਤਤੁ ॥ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸੇਵੇ ਫਿਕਾ ਬੋਲਣਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਨ ਵਸੈ ਮਨਿ ਆਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸੇਵੇ ਜਮ ਪੁਰਿ ਬਧੇ ਮਾਰੀਅਹਿ ਮੁਹਿ ਕਾਲੈ ਉਠਿ ਜਾਹਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਸਨਾ ਫਿਕਾ ਬੋਲਣਾ ਨਿਤ ਨਿਤ ਹੋਇ ਖੁਆਰੁ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਿਰਤਿ ਪਇਐ ਕਮਾਵਣਾ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਮੇਟਣਹਾਰੁ ॥੨॥ We must not speak foul and understand viakaran from Guru Granth Sahib Ji itself. It is easy to tell others to 'shut up' when the battle seems to be losing with gyan. Brother! This is not the GurSikh way. Please don't just look at viakaran, there are other important ascepts as well. One big one is vishraam. Vishraam is actually the biggest one. Viakaran can't help you much if you put wrong vishraam. Viakaran also depends on the location of the word, word used and word besides it. It is just like the English languahe. One time a word is noun, other time it is adjective so same thing with Gurmukhi. It depends on the whole quote. ਗਿਆਨ ਵਿਹੂਣਾ ਗਾਵੈ ਗੀਤ ॥ ਭੁਖੇ ਮੁਲਾਂ ਘਰੇ ਮਸੀਤਿ ॥ ਮਖਟੂ ਹੋਇ ਕੈ ਕੰਨ ਪੜਾਏ ॥ ਫਕਰੁ ਕਰੇ ਹੋਰੁ ਜਾਤਿ ਗਵਾਏ ॥ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੀਰੁ ਸਦਾਏ ਮੰਗਣ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਤਾ ਕੈ ਮੂਲਿ ਨ ਲਗੀਐ ਪਾਇ ॥ ਘਾਲਿ ਖਾਇ ਕਿਛੁ ਹਥਹੁ ਦੇਇ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਰਾਹੁ ਪਛਾਣਹਿ ਸੇਇ ॥੧॥ Does above shabad apply to those who claim to be sants and don't do kirat? I am just asking question here. Let me give you examples of vishraam and viakaran. I will explain one tukh but you will have to explain other. ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਵੈ ॥ Above tukh is easy one for everyone to understand so I have used it as an example to get dasam duar in the process of opening up. Now I will apply vishraam and do aarths of tukh below: If we place the comma after Bin Gur Mukat like shown below: ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ, ਨ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਵੈ ॥ The aarths become --> There is muktee without Guru, a person doesn't come or go. If we place the comma after Mukat Na as shown below: ਬਿਨੁ ਗੁਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ, ਆਵੈ ਜਾਵੈ ॥ Arths become --> There is no muktee without Guru; individual goes into reincarnation. ਗੁਰੁ ਈਸਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਗੋਰਖੁ ਬਰਮਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਪਾਰਬਤੀ ਮਾਈ ॥ Since you are wise and scholar, please provide aarths and proper vishraam of quote above and explain what it mans. Also explain how viakaran works in that shabad. Thank you very much in advance.

This doesn't have anything to do with viakaran. It has to do with putting vishraam. Where do you put vishraam plays even greater role than viakaran itself. Prof. Sahib Singh is alright. Namastang I will post about sargun and nirgun some other time on what is sargun and what is nirgun. How can I give reference to steek when steeks are wrong? Let me give you example of mistake by Prof. Sahib Singh. ਕਬੀਰੁ ਪੂੰਗਰਾ ਰਾਮ ਅਲਹ ਕਾ ਸਭ ਗੁਰ ਪੀਰ ਹਮਾਰੇ ॥ ੫॥ {Page 1349 of Guru Granth Sahib Ji} Prof. Sahib Singh does translation as: ਮੈਂ ਕਬੀਰ ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਞਞਾਣ ਬੱਚਾ ਹਾਂ, (ਤੇਰੇ ਭੇਜੇ ਹੋਏ) ਅਵਤਾਰ ਪੈਗ਼ੰਬਰ ਮੈਨੂੰ ਸਭ ਆਪਣੇ ਦਿੱਸਦੇ ਹਨ । ੫। Above translation is wrong because it breaks person from direct link with God and connects to deh. Proper arth is: ਪੂੰਗੜਾ – ਪੁਜਾਰੀ ਨੋਟ – ਪੂੰਗੜਾ ਦੇ ਅਰਥ ਦਰਅਸਲ ਪੁਜਾਰੀ ਹਨ, ਪਰ ਵੇਖੋ ਕਬੀਰ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਵਲੋਂ ਉਚਾਰਨ ਸ਼ਬਦ: - ਕਬੀਰੁ ਪੂੰਗਰਾ ਰਾਮ ਅਲਹ ਕਾ ਸਭ ਗੁਰ ਪੀਰ ਹਮਾਰੇ ॥੫॥ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ, ਪੰਨਾ ੧੧੩੬ ਕਬੀਰ ਉਸ ਅਲਹ ਰਾਮ ਦਾ ਪੁਜਾਰੀ ਹੈ ਜਿਹੜਾ ਸਭ ਦਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ, ਪੀਰ ਹੈ। ਉਸ ਅਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਵਲ ਇਸ਼ਾਰਾ ਹੈ। ਉਹੀ ਸਾਰਿਆਂ ਦਾ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਅਤੇ ਆਪ ਹੀ ਪੀਰ ਹੈ।

Gurbani and Bhai Gurdas vars might seem that they are declaring Guru Nanak to be God but this is not the case. I don't have time to translate every shabad here but I can give one example. Sabh Tay Vadda Satgur Nanak Jin Kal Rakhee Mayree This tukh means: Satgur is greater than all, Nanak (says), he protects me. Gur Nanak Jin Suneaa Paykheaa It means: One who has listened to and heard Nanak's Guru (shabad, God)

That is right and Mahan Kosh also gives the same definition for gandharavs.

Good work by the actors with insight into machines.

So if someone hasn't taken Amrit, that person is allowed to freely commit bajjar kurehits? Bajjar kurehits are bajjar kurehits. Doesn't matter is the person is Amritdhari or not. Paap karam is paap karam. If a person isn't Amritdhari, it doesn't mean person is allowed to do bajjar kurehits. I gave you Gurbani quote which says Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh were without naam. Shabad is clear about Shiv, Brahma and Vishnu and says they were diseased by ego. This is a core principle which Guru Nanak Ji is giving in that shabad. The second shabad by Bhagat Namdev Ji identifies an action of Mahadeo (Shiv). Shiv killed the son a merchant because food wasn't prepared on time. These points can never be ignored. This is great disrespect to Sahibzada Fateh Singh. If you agree that Baba Fateh Singh had characteristics of Shiv, you are saying that Sahibzada Fateh Singh had anger mangement problems and would kill someone' son if he wasn't given food on time. However, since you aren't satisfied with the above quotes, let me give another one but I know you will not agree and will come up with more excuses to defend Shiv. These quotes are for those who are interested in understanding and learning Gurmat. ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹਾਦੇਉ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਰੋਗੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਹਉਮੈ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਈ ॥ ਜਿਨਿ ਕੀਏ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਨ ਚੇਤਹਿ ਬਪੁੜੇ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸੋਝੀ ਪਾਈ ॥ ੨॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੭੩੫} Brahmaa Bissan Mahadeo Trai Guon Roagee Vich Haomai Car Kmaaee || Jin Keeaye Tisheh Na Chaythe Har Gurmukh Soajhee Paaee || 2|| Brahmaa, Bissan and Mahesh were diseased by the three qualities of maaya (materialism); they acted in ego. They didn’t remember the one who created them. One gains this understanding by placing his faith on God. 2. ਭਰਮੇ ਸੁਰਿ ਨਰ ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵਾ ॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੨੫੮} Bharmay Sur Nar Dayvee Dayvaa || Angelic individuals, goddesses and gods are wedged in doubt. ਸਦਾ ਸਹਜੁ ਸੁਖੁ ਮਨਿ ਵਸਿਆ ਸਚੇ ਸਿਉ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇਆ ॥ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਮਹਾਦੇਉ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਭੁਲੇ ਹਉਮੈ ਮੋਹੁ ਵਧਾਇਆ ॥ {ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ, ਪੰਨਾ ੮੫੨} Sdaa Sahaj Sukh Mun Vaseaa Schay Seo Liv Laaeaa || Brahmaa Bissan Mahadeo Trai Guon Bhulay Haumai Moh Vadhaaeeaa || Gradual peace is attained when one links their concentration on the Truth. Brahmaa, Bissan and Mahadeo were lost in the three qualities of entanglements and had amplified ego and duality. 1. Was Baba Fateh Singh stuck in maaya and acted in ego like Shiv? 2. Was he stuck in duality like Shiv? Was he lost in three qualities of maaya? 3. Baba Fateh Singh had amplified ego like Shiv? If the answer to above three questions is no, then Baba Fateh Singh Ji didn't have the characteristics of Shiv. It is utter disrespect of Baba Fateh Singh Ji to compare him to Shiv. This disrespect of shaheeds and pooran Gursikhs should never be acceptable.

Bhai Ji! Let me understand your chariter. Are you trying to label me as kala afgana gang? I don't belong to kala afgana gang. Kala Afgana doesn't know how to respect others. He talks in ego and uses foul language at times. I don't know how I fit into kala afgana gang then. I didn't quote kala afgana, I didn't tell you to read kala afgana, I didn't link you to a kala afgana article, why are you forcefully labelling me as a kala afgana agent? Please clarify. I am just asking if Kahan Singh Nabha was a naastic because I don't know who fits the bill for naastic and who doesn't. Naastic Aastic Chakar is baad bebaad.

ਸੋ ਸਿਖੁ ਸਖਾ ਬੰਧਪੁ ਹੈ ਭਾਈ ਜਿ ਗੁਰ ਕੇ ਭਾਣੇ ਵਿਚਿ ਆਵੈ ॥ ਆਪਣੈ ਭਾਣੈ ਜੋ ਚਲੈ ਭਾਈ ਵਿਛੁੜਿ ਚੋਟਾ ਖਾਵੈ ॥ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸੁਖੁ ਕਦੇ ਨ ਪਾਵੈ ਭਾਈ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਪਛੋਤਾਵੈ ॥੧॥ ਆਵਹੁ ਸਿਖ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਕੇ ਪਿਆਰਿਹੋ ਗਾਵਹੁ ਸਚੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥ ਬਾਣੀ ਤ ਗਾਵਹੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਕੇਰੀ ਬਾਣੀਆ ਸਿਰਿ ਬਾਣੀ ॥ ਜਿਨ ਕਉ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰਮੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਤਿਨਾ ਸਮਾਣੀ ॥ ਪੀਵਹੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਸਦਾ ਰਹਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗਿ ਜਪਿਹੁ ਸਾਰਿਗਪਾਣੀ ॥ ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸਦਾ ਗਾਵਹੁ ਏਹ ਸਚੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥੨੩॥ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਬਿਨਾ ਹੋਰ ਕਚੀ ਹੈ ਬਾਣੀ ॥ ਬਾਣੀ ਤ ਕਚੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਹੋਰ ਕਚੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥ ਕਹਦੇ ਕਚੇ ਸੁਣਦੇ ਕਚੇ ਕਚˆØੀ ਆਖਿ ਵਖਾਣੀ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਿਤ ਕਰਹਿ ਰਸਨਾ ਕਹਿਆ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਜਾਣੀ ॥ ਚਿਤੁ ਜਿਨ ਕਾ ਹਿਰਿ ਲਇਆ ਮਾਇਆ ਬੋਲਨਿ ਪਏ ਰਵਾਣੀ ॥ ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਹੋਰ ਕਚੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥੨੪॥

ਤੇ ਸੰਤ ਭਲੇ ਗੁਰਸਿਖ ਹੈ ਜਿਨ ਨਾਹੀ ਚਿੰਤ ਪਰਾਈ ਚੁਖਾ ॥ ਧਨੁ ਧੰਨੁ ਤਿਨਾ ਕਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਹੈ ਜਿਸੁ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਫਲ ਹਰਿ ਲਾਗੇ ਮੁਖਾ ॥ ੬॥ ਗਜ ਸਾਢੇ ਤੈ ਤੈ ਧੋਤੀਆ ਤਿਹਰੇ ਪਾਇਨਿ ਤਗ ॥ ਗਲੀ ਜਿਨ੍ਾ ਜਪਮਾਲੀਆ ਲੋਟੇ ਹਥਿ ਨਿਬਗ ॥ ਓਇ ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਸੰਤ ਨ ਆਖੀਅਹਿ ਬਾਨਾਰਸਿ ਕੇ ਠਗ ॥੧॥ ਐਸੇ ਸੰਤ ਨ ਮੋ ਕਉ ਭਾਵਹਿ ॥ ਡਾਲਾ ਸਿਉ ਪੇਡਾ ਗਟਕਾਵਹਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਬਾਸਨ ਮਾਂਜਿ ਚਰਾਵਹਿ ਊਪਰਿ ਕਾਠੀ ਧੋਇ ਜਲਾਵਹਿ ॥ ਬਸੁਧਾ ਖੋਦਿ ਕਰਹਿ ਦੁਇ ਚੂਲੇ੍ ਸਾਰੇ ਮਾਣਸ ਖਾਵਹਿ ॥੨॥ ਓਇ ਪਾਪੀ ਸਦਾ ਫਿਰਹਿ ਅਪਰਾਧੀ ਮੁਖਹੁ ਅਪਰਸ ਕਹਾਵਹਿ ॥ ਸਦਾ ਸਦਾ ਫਿਰਹਿ ਅਭਿਮਾਨੀ ਸਗਲ ਕੁਟੰਬ ਡੁਬਾਵਹਿ ॥੩॥ ਜਿਤੁ ਕੋ ਲਾਇਆ ਤਿਤ ਹੀ ਲਾਗਾ ਤੈਸੇ ਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਵੈ ॥ ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਜਿਸੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਭੇਟੈ ਪੁਨਰਪਿ ਜਨਮਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ॥੪॥੨॥

Ya right! You are my brother too but how can you say I am naastic? Please don't make false claims to defame Akaalis. Brother, what is your definiton of naastic? Someone who preaches Gurmat? Was Bhai Kahan Singh Naba a naastic? I just checked and saw that Guru Da Sikh has been posting since June 4. I just posted because you mentioned my name for no reason. You remember me and I show up. Haha! I don't know where Guru Da Sikh person is from. I am from Malton.