amardeep

I think it has to do with what scholars of today call "Kavi maryada" - it was normal in higher literature at the time to invoke your primary nirgun isht and focal point (Akaal Purakh) hereafter followed by the Sargun saroops (one or more) then down to your own gurdev/Vidiya Guru. You can see Kavi Santokh Singh doing the same .. He starts with Oankaar, then Sarasvati, then the Gurus, then Guru Gobind Singh, then Guru ji's talwaar and finally Giani Sant Singh who he learned from. Pandit Gulab Singh has a similiar approach just another order: Akaal Purakh, Ram Chander, Guru Nanak, Guru Gobind Singh and finally Pandit Maan Singh,.

 

I think in general all Granth's were protected. Malcolm in the early 1800s writes that it was extremely difficult to obtain copies of Sikh scripture. Finally he got them from the Nirmale who seem to have been more liberal in this regard. We can imagine then that the Nihangs were more protective.

That is the tradition around it - that it was compiled in Hazoor Sahib and entered Punjab around the Maharaja Ranjit Singh period.

I think Pandit Tara Singh Narotam is the first Sikh to mention the Sarbloh Granth around the 1860s or 1870s. Before that it is neither mentioned nor quoted from.

RAJ KAREGA KHALSA!!!

Hear this Truth Nand Lal.
I shall establish my rule.
I shall merge the four castes into one.
I shall have all people repeat "Waheguru".
The enemy, once sighted shall be defeated.
One sikh will confront a host of 125,000
Spiritual liberation awaits that Singh who fights for me.
-Tanakhah-nama, Bhai Nand Lal

I can not imagine he did. In historical analysis one thing you learn is that authors often project contemporary practices backwards in time... Meaning that havan might have been normal in the days of Ratan Singh Bhangu so he automaticly asumes that Baba Deep Singh must have done the same before heading for war.

Aad Sach, Jugaad Sach, Hai Bhee Sach, Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach.
Sultan Al Awal, Wa Al Akhir.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh.


Having read the Bhagavad Gita recently i must say i was absolutely amazed. It is very enlightening and gave me a deeper understanding of a Gurbani, the perfect devotee and the concept af Avatar.. The sayings of Krishna are very similiar to the Bani of Guru Tegh Bahadur Maharaj. It is an absolutely amazing read and i understand why it is a part of Nirmala litterature.. Absolutely amazing.

Krishna discusses the various forms of Yoga, and i would like to know which of these you consider to be the yoga of the Gurus?

Karma Yoga
Bhakti Yoga
Jnana Yoga


also, in the fourth chapter Krishna Maharaj talks about his teachings being aad, jugaad, hai bhi sach, and I do not see any conflict between the Gita and Guru Maharajs teachings, so are the teachings the same, except a new rehit has been given in kalyug?

finally, in Dasam Granth Krishna is mentioned as an avatar of Vishnu, and Vishnu is himself an avatar of Brahman, but Krishna Maharaj in Bhagavad Gita explains himself as being the avatar of Brahman and not vishnu?

He looks a bit like a sikh in the second picture lol

Wonderful post. I’ve collected some of these over the years.  

The writings of Rumi has had a special place in the curriculum of the Sewa Panthis for the past 200 years since they translated the Masnavi  in the mid 1700s.

I think there is a lot of potential in their Canadian parcharak Harnam Singh. He seems to have been schooled in samprdayic traditions as he brings up vedant terminology every now and then and he also does Katha of passages from Suraj Prakash Granth. I think he will definately be a moving star for the BOS. 
 
See one example here in this series from a Sikhan Di Bhagat Mala sakhi 
Nanak Naam is another ngo that is really popular and adds weight to Sikh philosophy in a western language mainly targeting western audiences. 

The Guru was both a patron and a writer himself. Nothing unusual about this though, - many rulers likewise wrote their own litterature as well as being patrons of others. See the writings of Dara Shikoh for instance who translated much and also paid others to translate.
Im not sure why it would be easy for others to mistake it as Maharajs writings, if he only commisioned it. Though Maharaja Ranjit Singh patroned the Golden Temple, no one actually mistook it as him being the actual constructor and builder.
Rules and guidelines are standardized in poetry (of whatever language) and I think (not sure) that different words are used depending on where in the text they are used. I've only seen the word krit being used in the beginning of a book, - never along the pen name of the poet (where you have kavi in your example). I'll have to check up on how it is used in braj basha. Lekhak, kavi, krit and sometimes even without any title in front of the pen name - i think they were all used but there is probably a logic to where and when they are used.
 
So I take it we both agree that the above verses deal with the number of scribes, and not with the number of authors nor the number of pen names (as manglacharan says).
But how do you know he is ignoring it? The fact that Bhai Sahib quotes extensively from different parts of the Dasam Granth surely implies that he had read and studied large parts of the Dasam Granth and therefore came across the Ram, Shyam and Kaal pen names. Yet he still wrote "Saakh Mahala 10" in the headings. In the previous chapters he writes the raag and the mahala (ie. Raag Gauri Mahala 5). There is no change, only continuity. So how do you know he is ignoring them?
Difficult - yes. Impossible - no.
Your examples with the other Gurus are fine but I dont think we can assume that the reason 6th and 7th patshah did'n compose any bani was due to them being busy being kings. I think there were greater things at play.
We know from history that the Guru from an early age had a thorough education in the art of war and poetry as well as learning the languages of Punjabi, Persian, Sanskrit, Hindi and Braj Basha. This also included a thorough study of the litterature of these languages (especially Persian and Sanskrit).
The largest parts of the Dasam Granth are the Charitro Pakhyan, Bachitar Natak and Chaubis Avatar. Combined, these probably make up some 80% of the entire Granth. However, going by the internal datings, these were also composed over a period of 10-12 years. Some of the larger chapters of the Chaubis avatar were composed as early as the late 1680s and then completed some 10 years later. Likewise the Charitro Pakhyan was composed in 1696 while the Bachitar Natak was probably completed soon thereafter. Over a period of 10-12 years it is not impossible to compose some 800 pages of bani.
When I was doing my research on the kavi darbar last year I noticed how some years seem to have been more productive than others. The period 1695-1698 seem to have been a very active period in the Anandpur Darbar where large chapters of the Mahabharat were completed. Translating the Mahabharat is a massive undertaking in itself! Likewise, there were no major battles in the years 1694-1698. This gave the Guru and his poets the time needed to engage in their arts and devote "full time". 
Suraj Prakash is 8-9 times the size of the Dasam Granth and that was composed over the same period of time (10-12 years). So it is not impossible. Likewise with the music. Being a calligrapher could have developed along learning prosody.
The sakhi says the SIkhs came to the Guru and asked for joining the Granths together. And then the answer was given. It does'nt say the SIkhs were told no, and then the same Sikhs came and asked again. Since they were never officially merged together it means the Sikhs understood to keep them seperate (apart from that one saroop in delhi of Bhai Mani Singh)
I dont think its fair to see they did'n know the content of the Granths. There is nothing wrong in saying that the Dasam Granth has a much greater focus on Avatar lila than the Guru Granth Sahib considering the wide scope of the Chaubis Avatar as well as the 3 Chandi banis and the other Mahabharat translations. Sure, its not all about avatar lila, but even the Anti-Dasam Granthis say that Dasam Granth is a "hindu scripture" due to the Chaubis Avatar. It is an exaguration. I would'n say Bhai Sahib did'n know what it was about since he obviosly studied it as is evidenced by his quoting of it.
Your theories are interesting - try and look more into them in light of what puratan ithias says and see if you can find any evidence to back them up. Would be interesting to see.
Its good to imagine - the problem however is that we are not talking about a random devout sikh who came to the court once a year during Vaisakhi. We are talking about Bhai Mani Singh who tradition records as a court poet himself, a scribe, resident in Anandpur as well as a darbari. He spent years and years with the Guru. It is very unlikely that he would take large granths such as Bachitar Natak and Charitro Pakhyan and say they were guru krit just because people say so , if he had never stumbled across them during his residence in Anandpur. Imagine if I come to you 10 years after your best friend has passed away and say "here is a 800 page granth that your friend was actually working on. You might not know and you've probably never seen it before.. but true story".. Thats very unlikely no?

The earliest reference to "Vada Granth" i've come across is in a 1692 saroop of Guru Granth Sahib.. I dont know if it was scribed in Anandpur or else where. Interesting though that it uses the same terminology as Bhai Kesar Singh Chibbar some 70 years later. Would be interesting to see if there is any reference to the Dasam Granth being called Chota Granth already in the 1690s.
To be honest i've never really looked into the arguments used for the different pen names. What do Pro-Dasam Granthi scholars give as reasoning?
Can you provide some examples of what you consider to be differences in belief systems?
I can't as I dont know more than it.. It was just a theory and conjecture. It's something to look further into *wink wink you do it* ;)
Take it from scracth, start from A and end with Z so others can also read along and learn from your research.
 

Thank you very much for bringing up this topic. I've had some issues also with some of the English translations of this text since they seem to be adding more to the text than what it actually says, which often creates internal contradictions.
You do make some good points. I'll post my thoughts below.
If you look at the way Bhai Kesar Singh mirrors these two examples of the two scriptures being born in two houses, it is evident that one of the main difference is in the number of people present while the saroops were scribed . In the Guru Granth Sahib, there was only one person present (Bhai Gurdas), whereas in the case of the Dasam Granth there were many. Gurbilas Patshahi 10 of Sukha Singh and others state that there were 36 scribes present in the Anandpur Darbar In Pyara Singh Padam's analysis of the Anandpur Dasam Granth Bir from 1696 he notes that in the beginning of the banis or in the margins of the pages it reveals the names of several different scribes - amongst these Bhai Darbari, Darbari Singh Chota, Baba Hardas, Bhai Nihala and Bhai Bala. This is a major difference between the two Granths and I think this is what Bhai Kesar Singh Chibbar is highligting. In that sense, the translation of manglacharan is wrong as it does not have anything to do with the poets/authors, but rather the scribes. Here Bhai Kesar Singh affirms that many scribes were involved in its production mirroring it with the Adi Granth where there was only one scribe involved.
You are right here that the Guru was the scribe but I think the point Bhai Kesar Singh is trying to make is that the Guru wrote handwritten pages of this granth himself. Elsewhere in Bansavalinama he talks about the Guru's hand written pages of the Dasam Granth (i'll scan you the pages in the following post). So yes, this line does'nt talk about authorship but it does talk about the Guru being very fond of it and having scribed it himself (I think ਖਿਡਾਇਆ means he was immersed in it - ie. calligraphy - as the extant handwritten pages are extremely beautiful in terms of the calligraphy alone! Not something that was written quickly quickly).
 
 
Talking in the plural was very common for poets, kings, Godly speech etc. It is seen throughout the Dasam Granth in many places where the speaker is singular:
ਤਹੀ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਸ ਹਮਾਰਾ ਭਯੋ
ਮਦ੍ਰ ਦੇਸ ਹਮ ਕੋ ਲੇ ਆਏ
ਜਬ ਪਹਿਲੇ ਹਮ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਬਨਾਈ (God speaking)
 
You make a good point regarding when Kesar Singh is insterting his own words and views.
1, No I think in fact he is saying that the Guru wrote it - thats why he says the two granths are like two brothers (and why he then concludes that both are Guru).
Elsewhere in the Bansavalinama's tenth chapter he quotes extensively from the Dasam Granth, all having the heading "Saakh Mahala 10" (see pics in the next post).
2. Likhari can only mean scribe, not author. Author is krit. Kesar Singh says there were many scribes, not many authors.
3. See above.
 
Here are some examples from the tenth chapter wherein Bhai Kesar Singh quotes from various parts of the Dasam Granth (Bachitar Natak, Chaubis Avatar and the smaller Khalsa Mahima compositions). All headed Saakh Mahala 10 ("Evidenced" by the Tenth Master).


 

 
The below pictures I have inserted for you to read so we can discuss it. I will have to read more up on these parts, but they are interesting since they give more info on the Dasam Granth saying many sanchia of the Dasam Granth were also lost in war. One part is interesting however - it says Bhai Mani Singh made a saroop wherein he mixed the bani of Guru Granth Sahib and Dasam Granth and rearranged the banis in cronological order (ie starting from Guru Nanak, then Guru Angad, then Guru Amardas etc). This saroop can be found in New Delhi and when the Patshahi 10 begins, it is verbatim Dasam Granth banis that emerges....This means that the Dasam Granth was considered the writings of Dasam Patshah - otherwise they would'n be in there.
 

Very interesting! please make a new topic or write in here...

read the first vaar in Bhai Gurdass vaaran

Gurbilas patshahi 6 details a lot of the rituals in regards to Guru Granth Sahib as well as the day to day rituals at Harminder sahib. 

According to Pyara Singh Padam this Bhagat Singh was the student of Kavi Dharam Singh who was a court poet of Guru Gobind Singh. And the whole Gurbilas Patshahi Chevi Granth is a book written on the basis of the katha sermons that Bhagat SIngh heard at Nankana Sahib from Bhai Mani Singh.
I've read very little from this book but I remember that I found the poetry quite beautiful. And it starts with Ik Oankaar Satgur prasaad which is quite interesting as it might indicate that it was written before Vahiguru ji ki fateh had become the standardized manglacharan.

Dohra:
By internalizing love in her mind, Kaula went to the house of the Guru.
Walking towards Mata Ganga she went and greeted Her.

Here is a link for people to read in english who Mata Kaulan was.
http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Mata_Kaulan
 
 

Yes please post it and your thoughts on it

I think Kavi Santokh Singh based his 3 volumes of Guru Hargobind Sahib on the Gurbilas Patshahi 6. This article by Niddar Singh is quite good and provides fascinating quotes from the Suraj Prakash Granth Patshahi 6.
http://www.shastarvidiya.org/articles/sixth_warrior_guru.html
 

According to Pyara Singh Padam this Bhagat Singh was the student of Kavi Dharam Singh who was a court poet of Guru Gobind Singh. And the whole Gurbilas Patshahi Chevi Granth is a book written on the basis of the katha sermons that Bhagat SIngh heard at Nankana Sahib from Bhai Mani Singh.
I've read very little from this book but I remember that I found the poetry quite beautiful. And it starts with Ik Oankaar Satgur prasaad which is quite interesting as it might indicate that it was written before Vahiguru ji ki fateh had become the standardized manglacharan.

Its like the word kesh which is pronounced "Kes" but in english letters is always written as Kesh....... In same way Waheguru is mostly spelled with a W but pronounced with a V

The word W does'nt exist in the panjabi alpabhet so Vaheguru is the most correct. .I've noticed that Waheguru is mainly said by Sikhs in the UK... It sounds funny lol

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh.

i find it very interesting that you are willing to understand the Dasam Granth before concluding anything, instead of just reading a few lines and automaticly say that they are false bani.

Being openminded is a very dear gift to have, and im glad that you are willing to listen to others opinions.

as to the case of Ramanand and Prophet Muhammad in the Bachitar Natak, Ustad Bahadur Ali Shah has given a great explanation on how it is to be understood.

he says:




and



as to the alleged "previous life" of Maharaj, Dalip Singh has given another interpretion of how it is to be understood, where he says that Maharaj is describing it as if he was a Yogi in the mountains, but what he really means is that he is describing his situation in the womb of Mata Gujri before he was born.

please read the following article, long as it may be:




It is generally believed that Guru Gobind Singh, in life immediately preceding his birth at Patna (December 18, 1661) was leading the life of an ascetic, doing penance and meditation at the Hem Hunt Mountain. It was while the Guru was performing these penance that God summoned him to His presence and told him, to take birth and become the successor Guru to Guru Tegh Bahadur. The interpretation of the Guru�s writings , that in his previous life he was leading life of an ascetic, is not correct. Below we give excerpts from the Guru�s writings as in �Bichitar Natak� (A Wonderful Drama):

�I shall now tell my own story. How God sent me into the world, while I was doing penance. There is mountain called �Hem Kunt� (a cave surrounded by ice), which has seven conspicuous peaks in the area of the garden of Sapat Sring. It was here that king Pandu practiced jog (union). There I too performed my austerities and remembered God. As a result of my remembrance of God, I attained complete union with Him. My father and mother also, worshipped God and strove hard to remember Him. The Great Guru (God) was so pleased with their complete devotion to Him, that He asked me, to take birth in this Kal Yuga (Age of sin). Being fully absorbed in my love of God, I did not desire to come to this world. God, not accepting my representations for not coming to the world, made me understand its necessity. Saying: �I have cherished you as My Son and am sending you in the world to extend My Religion. Go and spread My Religion there. Restrain the people from their senseless acts�. I stood up, folded my hands, bowed my head and replied, �Your Religion will prevail in all the world, when it has Your support.�

Guru Gobind Singh�s writings are full of similes and symbolism. The paragraph od the Guru�s writings mentioned above cannot be literally translated. There are two statements made by the Guru in the above mentioned composition. Firstly that he was a recluse or hermit doing penance at a place where King Pandu practiced jog (union). Secondly, commanded by God, he took birth in this Age of Sin (Kali Yuga).

As we have seen from the lives of Guru Nanak Dev and the succeeding Gurus, the Sikh Teachings are averse to such type asceticism. The human mind is cultivated to its maturity by association with saintly society and by confronting evil situations. By associating with evil, one becomes evil minded. Those who flee from their hoomes to live in forests or climb high mountains to live in isolated caves, gain nothing and become perverted. Guru Gobind singh teaches us -

�O man, practice asceticism in this way. Consider your house as a forest, and remain an anchorite at heart. Make continence your matted hair, union with God your ablutions. Make your religious duties as the growth of your nails and Divine Knowledge your spiritual guide. Admonish your heart and apply God�s Name as ashes to your body. Eat little, sleep little, love mercy and forbearance. Always practice mildness and patience, then you may be freed from �Maya� (Illusion) and the effect of Matter of Three Qualities. In this way you may behold the Reality in this world and obtain to the Supreme Being�.

The belief that Guru Gobind Singh in his previous life was leading a life of an ascetic, doing penance at Hem Kunt Mountain is based on a faulty interpretation of the above mentioned Guru�s writings. The Guru states that he did penance and meditate in the garden of Sapat Sring, where King Pandu also was engaged in yogic meditation. If we are to interpret this verse correctly, we will have to study the Hindu epic known as the �Mahabhartta.�

The �Mahabhartta� is an epic poem, which gives in detail, the political, social and religious life of the antiquities of the Hindu world. History�s men of great culture have displayed their creative nature by their capacity to speculate and imagine. Guru Gobind Singh�s works exist in this sphere. An account of king Pandu�s life is given in the �Sambhava Purva� of the Mahabhartta. Vyasa, the celebrated author of the Vedas, is also the author of this great epic. He was the son of the great sage Parasara and was connected with the families of Kaurvas and Pandvas.

(nb,- The following narration is quite long and difficult to remember, so you can either read it all, or go to the end and read the conclusion that the author makes on this text. i have started it with red letters so that you know where it ends)

King Santanu is said to have married the goddess Ganga. She gave birth to seven children and every time, she took the child and cast it into the river Ganga. The king could not raise any objection to her doing this, as he had pledged to her, before their marriage, that he would never stand in her way. When her eighth child was born and she was about to throw it into the river, the king could not bear it any longer and told her not to murder her innocent children. This time she did not kill the child but disappeared herself. The child became known as Bhishma. Years went by until one day, as the king was wandering on the banks of river Yamuna, he saw a lovely maiden and wanted to marry her, She was the river Yamuna, in the form of fisher-woman. Her father, a fisher-man, laid down the condition that the king could only marry her if any child of this marriage succeeded as the king. The king could not fulfill this condition, as he already had a son, Bhishma. However, then Bishma observed his father�s dejection, he went to see the fisher-man and pledged to him that he would never become king and would never marry, so that now there would be no question of any one else succeeding the king save any off-spring of the fisher-man�s daughter. In this way, Yamuna (Satyavati), married king Santanu. Before her marriage to the king, Satyavati, in an earlier union with Rishi Parasara had had a son named Vyasa, the composer of the epic Mahabharta. She now bore king Santanu a son named Vichitravirya, who ascended the throne of his father at his death. Vichitravirya in turn married the two daughters of king of Kasi, who were named Amvika and Amvalika. After seven years of married life, king Vichitravirya died, leaving his two queens childless. Satyavati, now begged her step son, Bhishma to marry her two daughters-in-law and raise children for his dead step brother. But Bhishma could not agree to the proposal on account of his vow of celebacy. Satyavati then thought of her son Vyasa and asked him to meet the two widowed queens, in order to continue the line of his deceased step brother. Soon after a monthly period of Princess Amvalika was over, Satyavati purified her with baths, led her to her inner apartments, seated her on a luxurious bed and said: �Your husband had an elder brother. It is he who to-night will enter your womb. Do not go to sleep but wait for him.� Amvika thought that she would be visited by Bhishma, but on seeing Vyasa, the ugliest of men, closed her eyes in fear. He embraced her, but not once during the embracing did she open her eyes and look at him. Amvika gave birth to a blind son, who became known as Dhritarashtra.

Similarly, Vyasa visited the second widowed queen Amvalika. When Vyasa came to her bed room, she turned pale with fear. She gave birth to a son named Pandu. - The Pale. Satyavati then told Amvika to have another child by Vyasa but she refused. She then sent a maid servant in her place. When Vyasa went into the room, the maid showed no fear. She pleased Vyasa in all respects. She was blessed in every way and bore a most intelligent son, named Vidura. The story now continues round these three brothers, Dhritarashtra, Pandu, Vidura and their descendents.

Dhritarashtra was married to Gandhari, who bore to him one hundred sons, the oldest was Daryodhana - Hard to Conquer (the evil in human nature).

Pandu became the king and married Kunti. Kunti was daughter of King Sura, who was Yadava by caste. Kunti was also known as Pritha, pleased Rishi Durvasa, who gave her a magical prescription �Mantra�. Through this Mantra she could summon whatever god she wished to give her sons. The Rishi had also fore-knowledge of her future husband, Pandu�s immature death. Kunti while she was still a virgin, out of a curiosity, to test the validity of the Mantra invoked �Arka Vivswat�, the sun god, who at once appeared before her. She became totally confused but the sun god, not leaving her, embraced her. The union gave birth to a son named Karna, from one of her ears. Her marriage to king Pandu took place later. In due course, king Pandu married a second wife, named Madri, the daughter of king Madra.

Vidura married the daughter of king Devaha, born of a Sudra (low caste) wife of the king. Vidura himself was also born of a Sudra mother.

One day, King Pandu went to jungle for hunting. He saw a huge stag coupling with a doe. The king discharged five arrows from his bow and mortally wounded both the deer. As they fell to the ground, the stag wept bitterly like a man. Actually the stag was not a deer but the son of a great Rishi, who had been enjoying his wife in the form of a deer. He told Pandu that he was a wicked man. Pandu replied, �When kings go out to hunt deer, they kill them as do their enemies, when chasing them. Even Rishis hunt deer and sacrifice them to their gods. Why do you reproach me?� The stag then replied, �Virtuous kings do not attack their enemies, when they are unprepared, but first declare war. I do not blame you for killing deer, but to kill any creature, in the act of copulation is a great sin. When male and female join together, it is agreeable to every creature; it is ordained by gods, and it is good for all. You should have waited until the act was completed. For this sin I curse you. When you join your wives, you will be deemed killed along with your wife. As you have brought grief to me, while I was enjoying happiness, so shall the same happen to you.� (This is the symbolic meaning of sexual intercourse, i.e. to be killed). So saying the deer died.

King Pandu was very much shocked and dejected. He told his wives to go to his people and tell them that he would become an ascetic, even though they begged to stay with him. Pandu then became an ascetic and disciple of the Sidhas, who resided in the forests. The Sidhas and Rishis of the forests then arranged to go on a mountaneous pilgrimage. Pandu wanted to accompany them with his wives but the Rishis said: �On our way are heights and regions of perpetual snow, where neither animals, birds or even trees can live; only the winds and Sidhas are there, so how can your princesses exist there?� As his wives could not copulate with him, Pandu replied, �I have no sons, nor am I in a position to create them. I owe a debt to my ancestors. I wish to know if my wives can have children by another man?� The Rishis gave the assent and foretold the birth of wonderful children for him, from other men. Kunti remembering her Mantra invoked the god of justice. Through him she had a son named Yudhishtra. After some time, Kunti invoked the god of wind and through him had a son named Bhima. Later again she invoked Indira and gave birth to a son named Arjuna.

Madri, the second wife of king Pandu now expressed her desire to bear children. Pandu asked Kunti to help Madri in this respect. Kunti told Madri to think of the gods with whom she wanted to have children and she would arrange it. Madri thought of the twin Aswins. They were invoked by Kunti and they came to Madri. By then she had twin sons, Nakula and Sahadeva. In this way, five sons (Pandu Brothers) were born to king Pandu.

When Pandu actually saw his five handsome sons growing up in the forest of the slopes of the mountain, he felt his sexual power returning. One day, accompanied by Madri, he went out to wander in the woods of the garden of Sapat Sringa. It was spring time, the season that causes unrest in all creatures. Flowers bloomed everywhere filling the woods with their gentle perfume, all the pools were full of lotus blossoms. King Pandu in the midst of all this, sat down to rest with a youthful mortal. His desire for her flared, like a forest fire. Unable to restrain himself, he put his arms around her, while she, knowing that his death would result , endeavored to restrain him. Intoxicated with desire and as if wishing to end his life, he united himself with her. No sooner was this done then life left him, in accordance with the Rishi�s curse. When the body of king Pandu was cremeated, Madri jumped into the fire to be with him.

The word �jog� means union. What type of yog did king Pandu have? It was a sexual union with his wife - a union in the womb of his wife. During the gestation period, the baby grows in the womb, where prior to his existence its father had had the union.

Guru Gobind Singh in his composition �Bichitar Natak� refers to King Pandu�s place of union (at Sapat Sringa) and states that there (in his mother�s womb) he had his union with God in the company of his Holy Mother.

It will be observed that in the above account the womb has been described as �a place�, where on its heights, are regions of perpetual snow, where neither animals and birds nor even trees can live; only the winds, the Sidhas and the great Rishis are there.� The Guru also described it as the �Hem Kunt Mountain� (A cave, in a snow covered Mountain). Dr Nandor in his book �New Approaches to Dream Interpretation (page 116) has given the following dream in respect of �The Mountain of Birth�.


�I talk to a friend in a boastful way of former feats. �Do you see that mountain there? We used to climb to its top and hike around up there, where the clouds are. Then we coasted down on a sleigh and had difficulties, because the snow did not cover the road completely. There were stretches of road bare of snow. Suddenly a great, lumbering grizzly bear came from the left towards me. I was very frightened, as I felt I could not pass it with the sleigh owing to the poor snow conditions. I start over the slope to my left, willing to risk my limbs in a steep ride that could land me in a gully. Anything to get away from the bear. I did not have enough time to move in either direction, I ended in a tree.

Climbing to the top of a mountain and enjoying his stay high up in the clouds� was a recurrent dream with this patient. He did not realize that the the dream was a fantasy of returning into the uterus (womb). The mountain top in a sea of clouds is an island. An island like a mountain submerged in the sea. An island, is a universal symbool of an unborn child, in its amniotic fluid. The foetus is a living island. The dreamer�s boast of former feats (not based on actual experience), is his way of basking in the glory of his past, in the memory of parental Bliss. The sleigh ride down hill, is a dynamic representation of the journey down the uterine canal, the danger of the fall in birth being represented by the gully, its difficulties by insufficient snow on the ground and its terror by the bear. The snow, because of his coldness, is often used in dreams for discomfort or fear. Its insufficiency over part of the road, is a cumulative emphasis on the danger of descent.�

It is abundantly clear from the above account that Guru Gobind Singh, in his composition, gave a beautiful description of his foetal life, in his mother�s womb. All human beings have to do penance and live an isolated life in their mother�s womb. A baby in the womb, float head down, knees pulled upwards, just as ascetics do.

The Guru in his composition states that he attained complete union with God and that God told him, to take birth in this Kal Yuga (Age of Sin). This clearly means that the Guru was not physically in existence in this world in Kal Yuga, and that his birth at Patna, was his first, in the Kal Yuga. Hindu sacred books divide Time into Four Yugas, each one of thousands of years. Kal Yuga is the Fourth and the Last Yuga.

Hem Kunt Mountain is situated North of Hardwar � Rikhikesh in Utar Pradesh State at a height of more than 14,000 feet above sea level. The area remains snow bound for more than eight months in a year. Nothing grows there and no one ever lived there. Raja Pandu did not meditate on God there, but lived in the jungle and had sexual union (yog) with his wife, which the Guru referred. Raja Pandu was not a saint, who ever meditated on God in these mountaneous area. The Guru metaphorically described his foetal life in his mother�s womb, which is misinterpreted. Mahabhartta largely is a classical world famous book of Mythology, description of which is for the scholars to unfold in plain words. All the World Cultures are based on Mythological stories, Mahabhartta is one of such books depicting Indian Culture.

It is rather strange that Sikhs built a shrine in the memory of Guru Gobind Singh�s alleged previous life as an ascetic meditating in the mountaneous region north of Hardwar and Rikhikesh! The prevalent mis-interpretation of the Guru�s myth in Bichittar Natak, is not only means lack of lack of our scholarship, but also in haste total nullification of the Truth as preached by the Guru himself. We do not yet understand that the myths cannot be literally interpreted.

Many years ago when I was reading through the Twarikh Guru Khalsa, I’m pretty sure I read some passages where the author said he had talked to punjabi Muslims who had returned from Mecca. And they had also seen materials related to guru Nanak there.  This book is from the 1880s. I’ll have to look it up again. 

Good stuff. If someone has the full sakhi please scan, - would be interesting to see why the fourth line is missing!
Here is the 11th verse which everyone skips (the text on the page you translated from as well as the English summary that was provided by Sikhkhoj)
ਦੋਹਰਾ।
ਭਾਖਾ ਰਚੀ ਦਿਆਲ ਗੁਰ ਸਭ ਮਨ ਭਏ ਅਨੰਦ।
ਦੁਰਗਮ ਸੁਗਮ ਭਏ ਸਕਲ ਪੜਿ ਸਿਖਨ ਹੋਇ ਭੰਗ ।੧੧।
Translations in the Anandpur darbar took place in different ways. One was where the scholar himself sat and read the Sanskrit original while translating it to braj basha. Other translations were made by "non-Sanskrit" speaking scholars who had Pandits explain them the Sanskrit text whereafter they would versify them in braj basha.
The Persian translation of the Mahabharat was made in the same way: Hindu Pundits would explain the Sanskrit verses to Persian scholars in Akbars darbaar who then versified the meanings in Farsi.