Bundha

16 On countless times the writer of this Granth advises its readers to correct his mistakes , he says , "Bhool Pari lahu lehu sudhaara" This is sly and taken out of context. Time and again Guru Ji bows to Akaal and asks for His protection and to support Him in all endeavors and to correct His mistakes. It is not the reader this is aimed at it is to Akaal.

15. The conspirators are trying to give the same reverence to Dasam Granth as to Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Whereas, no one can find any mistakes in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, however ,this so called Dasam Granth is littered with blunders. Again the supreme authority of Guru Granth Sahib Ji is never in question but those who want to stir controversy will keep repeating this claim. Anyone can make blanket statement ‘littered with blunders’

8. The Charitro Pakhyaan is nearly one third of this Granth written on 580 pages. It contains 404 vulgar stories which narrate sexual episodes preaching usage of drugs,alcohol and other intoxicants. People judge Guru’s bani according to their own low standards. We are all dipped in Kaam and we cannot see past it and instead of bowing down to our Gurus higher intellect we judge by our own low sordid standards. Guru Ji is never at fault, we always are, but our haumai will not let us acknowledge this. We should give thanks to our Glorious Guru who has armed us against all that life can throw at us. He who has read and understands Charitro Pakhyaan is armed against the wiles of men and women, no one can better him. Guru Ji has assisted us even in this part of our life which is normally veiled and not discussed. We think we are so clever yet do not have the intellect to understand these stores. Most are rewriting of already existing stories with a moral slant, most of the stories are written as conversations between a King and his minister and those who are a bit dim mistake this as if Guru Ji are writing about Himself, this is not the case. If you look around and think that the moral compass of people has been corrupted (think of all those attacks against our mothers and sisters in India lately, or look at news items of sordid stories in the papers) then think again as things are going to get a lot worst, this is the age of Kalyug as you all know. The stories do not encourage decadent attitudes; it shows what is happening and what will happen, like a mirror to our souls to show us for what we really are. These things are already starting to happen, see recently of abductions of females kept for years and abused. Females kept by fathers that have had children by them, it is happening now! Guru Ji is warning us of all these things so we as Sikhs can be aware and be on guard. How amazing is our Guru!

6. To judge a given scriptures authenticity the scholars have laid down three basic rules :- 1. The content of a given scripture. When it was written. If no exact date or year available,with some discrepancies it still can be judged. 2. Who is the author ? 3. Author's honesty and integrity. Dasam granth fails on all these three. The fact remains that this so called Granth consists of a mixture pf translated versions of Brahamnical scriptures suhc as ; Maarkande Puraan, Shiv Puraan, Sri Madd Bhagwat Puraan and many more. Guru Ji does not have to prove Himself to anyone. Who are these “scholars” infront of Guru Gobind Singh Ji? Dasam Granth starts with ‘Sri Mukh Vaak Patshahi Dasvi’ and ends with Chaupai Sahib which gives the date and place of where it was written – Chaoupai Sanbhat satrah sahas bhanijai|| Aradh sahas phun teen kahijai|| Bhaadrav sudi ashtami ravi vaaraa|| Teer satuddrav granth sudhaaraa||29|| It was Bikrami Samvat 1753; This book was competed on the banks of Sutlej on Sunday, the eighth Sudi of the month of Bhadon. (29) As stated before a large part of Dasam Granth is rewriting of ancient scriptures with a Sikhi slant, at no point is there any worship of any deity. Yes there are praises of various avtars but this is for good deeds and good character. Guru Ji even praises those dhents who fought with great courage and ferocity because of their prowess in the battlefield; this is giving due where it is deserved. 7. Bachittar Naatak , which is propogated as the life story of Guru Gobind Singh , is a small part of this bigger Granth. It is not propagated as the life story of Guru Ji it is a part life story of Guru Ji and it does only form a small part of the Granth, I see no controversy here.

4. Its original name was Bachittar Natak ( A strange drama). At the end of each chapter its author gives his closing remarks as, " Iti Sri Bachittar Natak Granthe... Sampuran Shubhmasat". So if the name changed over the years this does not constitute a conspiracy. Guru Granth Sahib Ji was first called Adh Granth. Bachittar Natak transates to Wondrous Drama. 5. In the Bachittar Natak , there is nowhere the name Dasam Granth has been mentioned. Nowhere in Guru Granth Sahib Ji does it mention Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

3.After reading this Granth I found out that a large part of this is merely translations of Brahmnical scriptures. What you have to understand is the context in which the bani was written. Guru Ji was a great scholar and the classics were from the Vedic texts, it is natural that Guru Ji would translate the texts with a sikhi slant. Also what should be remembered that the vedic texts were the exclusivity of the Brahmins they never let anyone near the scriptures hence the power stayed with the Brahmins . Guru Ji opened them up for everyone in the language of the time. All people, upper / lower class could now read them they were not the exclusive property of the Brahmins, how amazing is our Guru!

1.By accepting Dasam Granth as the creation of Guru Gobind Singh Ji,the innocent Sikhs are knowingly/unknowingly disrespecting Guru Sahib Ji This is untrue. Our Guru is Guru Granth Sahib Ji, but Dasam Granth is bani of Guru Gobind Singh Ji so has our utmost respect. Guru Ji could have chosen all the five amritwella banies from Guru Granth Sahib Ji but Guru Ji did not, Guru Ji chose three from Dasam Granth which is very telling. 2.This , so called Granth is full of serious blunders, even an ordinary writer would not make such serious mistakes. We believe that under a calculated conspiracy Guru Gobind Singh's name is being propogated as its author. Blanket statements are useless.

Parchi system is the best. No more arm twisting, spreading lies etc. One more thing, each of the main posts - Pardhan, stage secretery, cashier etc should have one sewa appointed to them that they must perform every week. For example the Pardhan must clean the toilets on a sunday Stage Secretery must clean the shoes of the sangat every sunday Cashier must wash up in the kitchen.

In Bachittar Natak Sahib, Guru Gobind Singh Ji says quite clearly that AkaalPurkh sent many souls to this earth to show the people the correct way but all of them did not show the correct way, each one changed the message. Some smeared ash over their bodies, some wore wooden earrings, some started to proclaim that they were the true way , some started circumcision and set themselves up as king of arabia, all changed the true path according to their own minds, which is the reason why Guru Nanak Dev Ji came to this world.

Benji, You have setup your own boundries, then you should police those boundries and not rely on others to. It is a matter of personal choice how far you take this. Some will check their food meticulously while others will not, so it is up to you to keep to your personal rules and not rely on others. I would disagree with the muslim, some people do not keep to personal hygiene when preparing food or they use ingredients that you may find objectionable, you do not want to compromise your personal maryadha for the sake of offending someone, in the end you will be judged on your actions, you than cannot say that you were relying on someone else. The easiest way is just to politely refuse the food. Just say you do not want any. Drink the tea and just say you do not want any biscuits or whatever is there. Say you have an upset stomach if they are really persistent.

Came across this : http://whitedragonawa.wordpress.com/2011/06/18/my-response-to-an-angry-sikh/ not sure if anyone with a bit of know how wants to give this guy a response ?

Jasjit singh Ji, Were you on the religious programme on Radio 4 (Tuesday 4.30) recently regarding religious texts ???? I thought you handled yourself very well and you came across very well. Sorry, the only criticism I would make is that you never brought out the fact that Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the divine word, that when Guru Nanak Dev Ji composed gurbani it was not Guru Ji's work but was coming straight from God. This was a very important point which I think was missed (unless you made this point in the last ten minutes or so which I missed). The Muslin said that the qran was dictated to Mohammad saab by the Angel Gabrial but was the word of God, the christians said theirs was not the exact word of God. But for Sikhs Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the true word of God as it is "dhur ki banni". Apart from that you were brilliant.

Bhaji , what point are you trying to make other then random babble ? A real sant is only revealed to one who is worthy. I doubt very much if we are worthy, we would not recognise a true sant if he/she stood infront of us. Giving and taking of life is in the hands of Akaal Purkh, if that means that an insect is to end its life under the foot of a human, or sant or anything else this is for Guru to decide. It is some peoples call to just do tapasia, that is their calling from Akaal Purkh, I wouldn't knock it. Grist jeevan has been given great respect by Guru Ji, yet one of Guru Ji's closest Gursikh, Bhai Gurdas Ji, never married. You are very quick to dismiss sants, yet are taken in by Christians and Muslins? Ruihana stage is no big deal.

Funny how a quote could not be found from 1430 ang of Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Bhaji these are two different shabads - first starts "Pai gahay jab tay koo ankh nehi anio, Raam Reheem PURAN QURAN.... - Second is "Sagal duaar kau chhaad kai gahyo tuhaaro duaar|| Bahe gahe ki laaj as Gobind daas tuhaar||864||" In the first Guru Ji rejects the Purans and the Qurans, you can say them a million times but I do not believe in them, Guru Ji says. So if the quran is rejected then how can you even contemplate doing nimaz? Guru Ji never advocates any other aradhna of Akaal Purkh other then that set out by Guru Nanak Dev Ji and consolidated by Himself with the panj banies/nitname. Here Guru Ji is saying that the pooja is the same and the nimaz is the same, that they both are in praise of Akaal, but it does not advocate that Sikhs do it, Guru Ji is showing here that different people remember God in different ways. It also says nothing about the catholic confession, so do we start to contemplate doing this also ? We are weak, we have priceless gems infront of us but we wonder off and seek out useless pebbles.

The issue is not interfaith relations. We need to see the Akaal jyote in all - Manus ki jaat subhey eke pehchan boe. Our TRUE father wrote this then who are we to discriminate against any body. Our TRUE father also wrote : Raam Reheem PURAN QUORAN eneke hey par eke naa janio. So what is the need for namaz?

WELL SAID TONYHP32. A person asking this type of question would have get a swift chittar a few years ago, but instead we weak Sikhs fall over each other trying to prove how versed we are in other peoples faiths, how we pride ourselves that we know verse x y and z from the Quran, yet ask if we know Japji Sahib off by heart !!!!!

but you may consider it on other grounds right ? Who is this we? certainly not Sikhi. I find it staggering that you still ask this question. If the namaz recognises Mohammad as the true prophet then HOW CAN A SIKH EVEN CONSIDER DOING A NAMAZ? Can you answer me that?

Sarbatdabhala, It seems that you are on a slippery slope and if you are not careful you will embark on a path which will be hard from which to return. Gurbani says that Gurus word are like gems but we discard them for pebbles, it seems you are contemplating the same. 1. Guru Nanak dev Ji never took a prayer mat to mecca. The pothi sahib that Guru Ji carried was to write down the durki-bani that would arrive from Akaal Purkh. Guru Ji visited Hindu places of worship as well as Musullman. 2. When Guru Nanak Dev Ji was asked if Guru Ji would say namaz, Guru Ji says a shabad - “let contentment be your prayer mat. . . . . . . .” this is the advice Guru Ji gave, hence Guru Ji never did namaz. If you are looking for confirmation to do namaz you will not find it from Guru Ji. 3. Namaz means confirming your commitment to Mohammad, do you really want to do this ? 4. Your PAY-O (father) Guru Gobind Singh Ji orders you to recite panj banis in the morning, rehras and kirtan sohila. Do you do this ? Does Guru Gobind Singh Ji at any point say you can also do namaz ? then why are you embarking on this path? 5. Rehatnama orders you to pay allegiance to the ten Gurus and Guru Granth Sahib Ji only, there is no mention of namaz! 6. The grass always looks greener on the other side. You think the musalman are all peaceful and content???? Just take a look at the daily news there is frequent mention of some musallman who are doing fraud, or molesting women, three just got put away last week. One gang killed a shopkeeper in Huddersfield. They blow each other up every day in the east for God sake! The Christians are fragmented with various sects and groups, none in contact with each other. The clergy are in turmoil. Priests are being accused of child molestation almost on a daily bases. The American Christians are so bigoted. So you have encountered a few Sikhs who are not to your liking, does that mean you leave the most beautiful panth for namaz ? Are you so insecure in your beliefs ? 7. Moorkha, don’t leave you father for someone else just because of your own failings.

I think the assessment gives one a little bit of an eye opener. We tend to think we are 'doing okay' sometimes it is good to get a bit of a jolt and seeing a percentage like this can give that jolt, for the better I hope so that we can stive a little more to get on the right path.

Try this State of your Union with God questionaire : http://www.info-sikh.com/QuizState.htm and check out the state of your Sikhi.

The link did not work for me, but i suspect that this is the idiotic theory that in Bachittar Natak Apni Katha is all about the womb Oh boy, how sikhs get taken in by any idiotic theory that people trump up is beyond me. We have no faith in our Guru, rather we are persuaded by the most idiotic of theories, how weak we must be in our faith to be suaded by such nonsense.

The bottom line is that it is all Guru Ji's kirpa, but sometimes we need 'jugatt' to do things. Set the alarm, then place the clock on the other side of the room, or in a drawer or cupboard so that when it goes off you have to get out of bed to find the clock and turn it off, once it is off then head straight for the door and into the bathroom.

Not read all of the replies on this thread but thought I would add one last thought. First amrit sanchaar was performed 1699, Guru Ji ascended to satch khand in 1708 - that is a period of 9 years. In all those nine years Guru Ji will have performed amrit sanchaar many many times, at the time there were many spiritually high bibi's, like Mata Bhago for instance, BUT Guru Ji never once had a bibi in the panj piyaray. Guru Ji had ample time to incorporate a bibi in the panj but never did, this is very significant. If this was a minor thing to swop and change things round, Guru Ji would have done it himself, but Guru Ji never did else we would have definately have heared of it. I think we should not think of this as a slight towards women, it is not. Genders have differing roles that is all.

Look at the signatures of Rani Jindan and see how she writes her name, this was before Singh Sabha, case closed. It has never been an issue whether Singh or Kaur existed before the Khalsa, they did. Rajputs used it and to this day they do. All Sikhs are Singh/Kaur , not all Singh/Kaurs are sikhs. Guru Ji specifically chose these names - Singh / Kaur for the Khalsa because of their royal connotations and the psychological boost they give to the receipient. You prove that Kaur is a creation of singh Sabah, we have given enough proof otherwise.