das

I was just trying to read this thread about to collect what others are reading and may be I'll find something more interesting, then something in my mind reminds me of a Bulleh Shah's one poem. Really good one, it showed me my exact (which happens to be wrong) direction where I'm heading to. So, I'm just sharing it with you guys the full poem. If you hear it, its more effective vs only reading the translations. Parh parh ilm te faazil hoya, Te kaday apnay aap nu parhya ee na You read so many books to know it all, yet fail to ever read your heart (yourself/inner-self) at all. Bhaj bhaj warna ay mandir maseeti, Te kaday mann apnay wich warya ee na You rush to holy shrines to play a part, Would you dare enter the shrine of your heart (inner-self) Larna ay roz shaitaan de naal, Te kadi nafs apnay naal larya ee na Everyday you fight Satan, But you never fight your own Ego. You are quick to attack the evil one, yet pride is a battle you have not won. Bulleh Shah asmaani ud-deya pharonda ay, Te jera ghar betha unoon pharya ee na Bulleh Shah you try grabbing that which is in the sky, But you never get hold of What sits inside you. You grab for a star you can control, yet fail to grasp the light in your soul. Bas kareen o yaar Let the race end, my friend Ilm-oun bas kareen o yaar, Ik Alif teray darkaar Stop trying to be the one who knows, for ‘God is One’ you need to know. Bas kareen o yaar End the race, my friend Allah Sayyaan Allah Sayyaan God is the Master, God is All Nee main jaanaa Jogi de naal I shall follow the Yogi {ascetic/sufi} Jo naa jaane, Haqq ki taaqat, Rabb naa devey us ko Himmat Those who deny the Strength of Truth, Lord does not give them courage Hum Mann ke darya mein doobey, Kaisi nayya? Kya manjhdhaar? We have drowned in the river of Self, the boat and the flowing waters do not matter Bas kareen o yaar End the race, my friend Ilm-oun bas kareen o yaar Stop trying to know it all, my friend. Allah Sayyaan Allah Sayyaan God is All we need! God is All!

Recently, I was listening to one spiritual discourse and a story was mentioned there, which perfectly applies here for both parties: Once there was a person who had the very strong habit of eating mango pickles very day. In order to break his habit, a doctor told him to stop eating mango pickles as it is bad for him. He followed the advice and stopped eating mango pickles. He even went a step further by educating people about the bad effects of mango pickles. e.g If he would go for lunch somewhere, he will first ask the host if there is any mango pickle in the offered bowl as mango pickle is bad for health. Then during the lunch he would continuously talk about the bad effects of mango pickle. After completing his lunch, he would very strongly recommend other person to stop eating mango pickle. Now, do you see anything bad in his behavior. Think about why the doctor asked him to stop eating mango pickle in the fist place: Because the doctor wanted to break the habit of his Mind by giving him the reason why he should not eat mango pickle. In other words, the doctor wanted him to go beyond the taste of tongue. But the person is still continuously talking about the mango pickle and thus the habit is still there in his Mind, it just changed the form. In other words, even he has left eating mango pickle, but his mind is still in the mango pickle, thinking about it. So, the person is not able to go beyond the mango pickle, he missed the real thing. Sameway, we do say and teach that we don't differentiate between man vs women; but we're continuously engaged in discussions about Man vs Women. Aren't we acting like the person who stopped eating pickle but still his Mind is attached to it? Isn't Mind playing games? It would be better to remember the aim of all these things (pickle or man-vs-women) is to break the unnecessary habits of mind so that it could go beyond itself. But you're still interested in playing the mind games, then you've (me included) not understood the real purpose.

Thanks for sharing. Good one.

I recently found the following website, its excellent especially the thinking of the author. May be someone is interested: http://www.metaphysicalmusing.com/

you MORONS (pun intended for all parties involved in fighting over this issue), when you'll understand that helping others have NO relation to one's religion, dress, creed........it solely depends upon the person's individual state of mind. It's a another story that that helper is wearing at point of time. e.g if some bad guys is after you and you're on run and then suddenly a car stopped in front of you and offered you ride to be away from the bad guys......so, in this case, would you (third party's) fight about if the person was saved by this and that make/model of car??? OR you would acknowledge the driver who was driving the car and offered you the help. Think about it MORONS (who are fighting for something which they have never attempted....helped someone out of LOVE)

I remember that many years back I was instructed to do the following AFTER the meditation/path: Rub both of your hands with each other (e.g when we rub hands in winter because of cold) and then clean your face gently (including forehead/3rd eye) with both of your hands (e.g when we wakeup and clean/rub our face). Basically, this will help you to complete your bio-circuits and you can put the generated energy to proper use and that will help building more energy. Regarding the Puranmashi, it is just a time when the Universal forces are in particular alignment which would help to further the Spiritual progress, but that doesn't mean one should do no meditation in other days. If you read this with open mind, then these times/cycles are visible in every sphere of life. Our Gurus did say that all days are equal and that is correct also. e.g When you are travelling via rowing boat to some destination, your every chappu/paddle will get you closer to your destination. But when the wind starts to blow in the same direction of your travel, then you will naturally travel at faster rate even if you don't bother/agree. But as the conditions are perfect, then it makes sense to row it harder so that you can reach to your destination more readily. Same way, when the conditions are favourable (in the grand world of Time and Space) then one should take advantage of it instead of just ignoring or not giving attention to it. Otherwise, the flow will continue no matter if we choose to agree or not, its just there. Some examples where we do accept that time/space/dimensions have effect but when the things come to Puranmashi, we just deny it. In pervious yugs, lot of bhagti has to be done in order to get benefits. But in Kalyug, conditions are such that by doing lesser (time) bhagti as compared to in previous yugs, we're able to reap more benefits.We can see during the day but not at night because of different set of conditions and capability of eyes in that time.Circadian rhythm in body. e.g Stomach meridian is most active during 7am to 9am, so if you eat breakfast in that time frame, then it will digestion; but if you choose to have it after 9am, even then body will digest it but without the use of natural flow.Amrit-vela has been largely accepted as the most favourable for meditation across all religions, spiritual movements.It has been agreed that whatever anyone thinks during the TIME of death decides his/her birth; unless the Guru takes over and then derive our thoughts in the last time. But still Guru is forcing ideas at that time. In other words, thoughts at particular TIME of death does matter the most vs the thoughts during the whole life. It's another story that one would think about what the mind has done for the life time. But I'm here pointing that TIME/CYCLE/SPACE does matter.At last, I remember that one told me not to say or think anything bad at all because once in 24 hours what we say with our tongue will come to true. Later when I was studying I came across one story in some Hindu scripture (I forgot whether it was some veda or upanishad or some other thing) where there was a deal made during the creation that once in 24 hours (for split second) the saying would be fulfilled but at the same time, most of the people won't know it or will sleep during that time. It's kind of loophole to fall into another hole of desires.

Excellently said, thanks for showing me the mirror: Knowledge is of no use, if it is not felt and applied. Just like: Carrying a bag of heavy food on the back won't put off our hunger, it is just a heavy baggage which can only help to get some admirers who are hungry for knowledge and one would get ego boost from that. In other words, knowledge is a burden unless felt and applied, and when its done it proves to be a boon. Once again the guidance of real Saints is proven who can point us our mistakes because we're even bound to misunderstood the meanings of Gurbani.......Mind is Mahabali.

good one. Here is one of his first recordings:

Couple of years back, we switched our apartment and the new apartment had strange feeling. Sometimes we could find blood strains out of nowwhere. In that apartment I had 2 cases as follows: * Once a negative entity overtook my Mom and she (the negative entity) challenged us that it will cause death to my Mom or my daughter. It will not go without either one's soul.I very bluntly told that entity (it was speaking via my mother's body) it could not do any harm to either my Mom and/or daughter, no matter what it tried; because our Guru/Saint/Sant will protect us. After hearing this that entity got angery and was about to do something........but then immediately positive entity came and they threatened the negative one and eventually it went away. * Then in the same apartment, I was alone at night and I used to play "Waheguru Simran" on my laptop because I was scared. Then one day during the night, a black thing with a hood sat on my chest and I tried to speak "Waheguru" but I could not say so. At the same time I saw another entity with black dress standing near my head. I was helpless. But then I was able to utter Waheguru and then it went away. Next day, I was told that the positive side was also there but they wanted to verify how I will face them. * Then couple of months back, my children were playing in the backyad. Then suddendly my younger daughter was thrown from her seat almost 180 degree and she got her ankle hurt. Then we came to know that a person who visited our house that day is known to utilize the black magic. * Then many times I could feel that someone is present in the house, I would think in my head, ok if there is anyone then prove it, please forward and then boom, suddendly I could see for split second that someone has gone from one room to another. Moreover, the negative vs positive entities don't always create drama. There are 1000s of good, bad, and normal entites around us all the time which our eye could not see. Bottom line is: Don't bother about the negative just ignore them and continue doing your path. Sometimes they are just there, or want to harm you or they know that if they try to harm this person, then the positive side (who has duty to protect) will engage and then there is a chance that negative entity might get some benefit i.e come out of that jooni. In my Mom and Dad's life there are lot and lot of causes involving both Negative and Positive entities and even cases when negative entities tried to kill my mom and even Sants (not physically) had to come to our rescue as the smaller positive entities did not have enough power against the negative one. It is not possible to list all of them. At last, don't worry about anything. Just continue your meditation and everything will be good. There are lot of things that do exist and they are just there and we can't see them. das

Have you had a chance to really study "Golden Dawn System", I fail to understand how witches are related to this system. Witches by defination are negative. I don't have any idea about Wicca. In Golden Dawn system, you tend to use the Natural/Elemental Spirits e.g Powers responsible for Plants, Air, and so on.......so, my point is: Don't generalize.

Witches are one of the joonis from the stack of 84 Lakh (8.4 million). In Gurbani there are many references to bhots, pret, witches, and many other types.......all these are some types of negative entities, specifically witch means female negative entity with some powers. As Satkirin has mentioned that in said Shabad, Maya is compared to Witch and that is correct. But I do NOT agree with Satkirin when she said that witches are not real, just Gurbani is comparing Maya with witches. Remember that, Gurbani (in the said shabad) is comparing Maya with witches so that it is easier for us to create an image of Maya based upon the properties and behavior of witches and one would give pointers ONLY if pointers exist. e.g when we want to define someone like Tom, then obviously Tom existed. Moreover, these days some people do not believe in the existence of these negative entities. In other words, they have never dealt or seen them; but that does not mean those things do not exist. I did saw, heard, and experiences these some type of negative entities but luckily everytime positive entities took over the war! Bottom line is: keep your mind's door open, don't close yourself.

Congratulations Satkirin. May God bless you and your family!

The very simplest exercise for insomnia is: Exhale from crown to toes, and inhale from the toes to the crown ten times. Just practice this for 10-15 times. Personally, I've noticed that most people don't remember when they fall asleep while doing this exercise. That's it. There is another very potent but detailed exercise which could treat any chronic case of insomnia within 7 days but at the same time should not be used to fall asleep. Here are the details: Potent Relaxation (Shithali Karana): As taught by Swami Rama There is no exercise known to be higher and better than this exercise to alleviate stress, hypertension. It can cure any chronic insomnia case. Even though it is great exercise for insomnia but keep in mind that this exercise should NOT used to fall asleep. If you do this exercise, you will find a difference in the quality of your sleep. In 7 days time it completely changes the whole cycle and anatomy of sleep; the quality of sleep increases and the duration of sleep decreases. Usually you do not really get a deep sleep so that your body is fully rested; you have aches and pains and inertia in the morning. If you do this exercise you will not experience those any longer. This exercise is also very good for either mentally based or physically based depression. If you do this exercise before meditating, you will find a difference in the quality of your meditation. Practice this exercise for a long time and perfect it. You should have mastery over this exercise and do it accurately. Find out where you are committing mistakes, and then correct your mistakes. You should train your body to follow your mental instructions by doing this exercise. Use pillow under the head for this exercise because otherwise the finer gases from the digestive system can come up and disturb your heart. Do not retain the breath in this exercise. There should be no jerks, or noises, and the breathing should not be shallow. 2nd chakra is excluded from this exercise. This exercise will drop the pulse rate drop and heart muscle able to rest. The involuntary system also rests; the pumping station that pumps blood to your brain slows down. To begin, the room should be made dark, quiet, and the eyes should be closed. Make sure that you lie on ground or with a thin sheet on ground; never use bed or mattress as it will make your spine curved.Lie down on your back with a soft pillow (not too big or small, just normal) under the head, with your feet spread and space between two legs, the toes pointed outward, the hands a little bit away from the body, palms up, eyes and lips gently closed, and the tongue relaxed at the roof of the mouth.First, breathe diaphragmatically 5 times; 5 complete exhalations and 5 inhalations. As you exhale let your abdomen contract, allowing the lungs to expel carbon dioxide. Let the abdominal muscles gently relax when you inhale.Exhale from the crown of your head to the toes, and inhale from the toes up through the ankles, knees, hip joints, and spinal column and coming back to crown. Do this 10 times.Exhale from crown to ankles, and inhale from ankles up to crown. 10 times.Exhale from crown to knees, and inhale from knees up to crown. 10 times.Exhale from crown to perineum, and inhale from perineum up to crown. 5 times.Exhale from crown to navel, and inhale from navel up to crown. 5 times.Exhale from crown to heart center, and inhale from heart up to crown. 5 times.Exhale from crown to throat, and inhale from throat up to crown. 5 times.Exhale from crown to bridge between nostrils, and inhale from bridge between nostrils up to crown. 5 times. If one of your nostril is blocked, ask your mind to open it and if it is your friend, then it open it.Exhale from crown to space between eye-brows, and inhale from space between eye-brows up to crown. 10 times. Here breath will become very short but it is fine breathe. It is not really shallow, but actually deep and fine.Exhale from crown to bridge between nostrils, and inhale from bridge between nostrils up to crown. 5 times.Exhale from crown to throat, and inhale from throat up to crown. 5 times.Exhale from crown to heart center, and inhale from heart up to crown. 5 times.Exhale from crown to navel, and inhale from navel up to crown. 5 times.Exhale from crown to perineum, and inhale from perineum up to crown. 5 times.Exhale from crown to knees, and inhale from knees up to crown. 10 times.Exhale from crown to ankles, and inhale from ankles up to crown. 10 times.Exhale from crown to toes, and inhale from toes up to crown. 10 times.Then gently get up. Throughout this entire exercise relax your whole body and let it inhale and exhale in a natural manner.In short the summary is: Exhale from crown to toes, and inhale from the toes to the crown ten times.Do the same with the ankles and knees.Then 5 times to perineum, navel, heart center, throat, bridge between the nostrils.Then from space between eyebrows to bridge between nostrils at least 10 times.Then reverse the process, coming back to the toes.

Om Swami came from a rich family, is educated in Australia and was running his own multi-million dollar company. But he left everything to be on Spiritual track. Very touching articles. e.g http://omswami.com/2015/09/a-story-of-faith.html http://omswami.com/2015/05/a-cobbler-dog-and-god.html I think he is indeed brave or say lucky, who can do what life really wants instead of us who are just engrossed in baseless/worthless arguments on this vs that. Have a look on his website. Great, refreshing.

Bhaji, availability/opportunity and benefit-from-that-opportunity is different. i.e If you've got the opportunity, it doesn't mean you'll the benefit from it. e.g If you happen to have a Well in your house and there is a fire in your neighborhood (including your home); and then you're going out to create awareness among the follow neighbors but not getting the real work done (i.e pull the water from well and extinguish fire first in your house and then move on to another house). It would be foolishness if you did not took advantage of the availability of the well. That well's importance is ZERO if You didn't took advantage of it. e.g A blind man cannot help another blind man. i.e it would be foolishness-with-good-intention-but-without-knowledge (and not awareness) for the blind person to tell the other blind person the path to somewhere where neither we've done nor we've seen. Same way, we cannot help other if we're still incapable. So, again take the advantage of being born in Guru Nanak's ghar and achieve something and then help others. Otherwise, you're bound to create problems in other people's Spiritual life along with yours. e.g Not all students are at the level where they need world level professional coach; some can learn from seniors, some can learn from local professionals etc. etc. Same way, not everyone is ready to puran Guru. You cannot expect to reach the top/ceiling/roof without the smaller lower steps. Each step has its own importance. Everything is dependent, understand the working of this universe.

Sant Baba Isher Singh Rara Sahib wale used to say: If the Guru is not-pura/complete but the student has 100% faith in his Guru that he is the God; then there are chances that student will reach higher Spiritual stages and will eventually get real Guru. On the other hand if the Guru is pura/complete/God-Himself but student does not have 100% faith on his Guru, then the student will NOT succeed. It means that Faith is more important. Also, why the hell you're so desperate to show the world (other religions) to counter-act their claims? The real point is: What you've achieved by following Guru Nanak Dev Ji? Think about yourself, in dargah, your Spiritual achievements will be measured and not your debating skills (debating on topics which are all illusion).

If the said word (kaya) is spelled correctly, then it means "Physical Body".

Okay, agreed that Guru Nanak Dev Ji was highest of the high; He is the greatest. But the real question is: Are you following Guru Ji's instructions/teachings in real sense? You're born in Sikhism and therefore its easier for you to follow Guru Ji's teachings (no resistance from society, family etc.). If you still don't follow the real core teachings of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, then having Guru Nanak Dev Ji as greatest have NO benefit to you. Think about it.

No most posts on this topic from me. No point in debating. But other members please post your thoughts.

Yes, both genders; in-fact every cell has both the principles. But it's the ratio. Also, a sword is NOT a sword; it DOES have consciousness. How could you claim "it does possess the divine light, it does not possess human consciousness......." . Please be informed that everything in this universe does have consciousness; even Stones does have consciousness. That's why I say, please first get all the information (what is what). Also, Guru is MUST if one wants to break the Ajna/3rd eye. If anyone has true love, then he/she would sacrifice the whole life for it. e.g Patanga (an insect) gets burned in the fire for its love towards it. So, it sounds like your intention to take Amrit was not too strong, not based upon true love, otherwise how could one drop the idea (which is only between One's Soul's and Guru). Amrit is a deal between One's Soul and the guide (Guru), how could someone's argument win over it. Kindly, do NOT convert this thread to Man -vs-Women; that's NOT the intention. Other members please share your thoughts.

The 5K's (Kara, Kangha, Kachera, Kirpan, Kesh/Kesge); the symbols are the physical symbols; they DO represent Spiritual purposes but still they are just physical symbols. How could we explain this outside of duality? How could we ridicule Janeu (Hindu thread) as manmat; janeu could also represent some Spiritual principle. So, how could we mock janeu but 100% in for 5Ks for Sikhs? Satkirin, do you know Kirpan/Khanda is always represented by Female/Shakti. I don't know how could 5 women (female power) prepare it with Kirpan (again female power)? Moreover, have you read Bachittar Natak, or Bibi Bhani's sakhi? It sounds like from your messages that you haven't had a chance. I have no issues with you or paapiman but both of you have yourself closed your mind to any new stuff, both of you are just repeating same stuff again and again without even trying to understand what the other is saying. Yes, I agree that everything is Illusion/Maya; in that sense, we haven't left God's abode; HE is still here; in-fact we're God. Then what's the need of any Spiritual stuff anyway or to take Amrit?? Kindly explain? Just switch your point to view from macro to micro. Yet, its very easy to say, but extremely hard to experience. e.g If someone asks you to target Sky; your reaction would be where in Sky. Right? You need something in the sky to aim at. Same way, Nirankar is everywhere but out our bhuddi (part of mind) is not able to understand it, so we had to take the help of Mind to some level, i.e we need to concentrate our dhayan on something which will eventually take us from this level to that level. Problem is when we rigidly start worshiping the tools thinking that this is the God. Moreover, its just recently that everyone is treating Amrit like going to a shop (choosing which brand - AKJ or This or That) and then making a deal. Nothing more than that. In the past, Saints/Sants used to give Amrit only to people who are really ready and putting up the effort. e.g If anyone asks for Amrit from Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji, then he used to say that: First practice Meditation/Paath for 6 months, and then again for 6 months and instructs them to refrain from alcohol and meat during that time. And if one is able to follow those for 1 full year, only then he/she was given Amrit. Nowdays, things have changed and there are many shops where one can do window shopping. At-last, regarding your dropping the idea of taking Amrit, please allow me to ask this question: Why you were interested in taking Amrit in first-place: Was it because of your Love towards Guru Granth Sahib Ji OR just something else? You decide!!

Recently on this forum and in general view: there is always tension between the groups in regards to "If women can be part of Panj Payaras or not". Every group has its own rigid explanations for their views. Group-1 says that yes, women can be part of Panj payaras. Their core reason is the bani as explained in Guru Granth Sahib Ji.Group-2 says that no, women cannot be part of Panj payars. Their core reason is because women didn't offer their head that day or say Guru Ji didn't ask. Some also say that women is not capable of preparing Amrit.Group-3 says that we've to follow the establised tradition and should not allow women to be part of Panj-payars but if any women is Brahmgyani, then its okay. Their core reason is that since the creation of Khalsa and all along during the times of great Saints, everyone suggested that women cannot be Panj Payaras.Now, I do NOT want to stretch this boring conversation to further but I DO want to present my personal views which seems to be opposite to the above mentioned groups at-the face value but in deeper sense it does resonate with them. So, please do NOT post same old reasons/explanations to prove your point. But I invite all memebers to please share your thoughts on this topic without indulging in baseless claims and let's have a Open Mind discussion. I also request everyone to carefully read the whole topic first and then send your response. Please do NOT read causally or just scan and then post the same thing which was in your head (pre-programmed). My personal view is: No, women cannot be part of Panj Payaras because the Amrit prepared during Sanskar Amrit is still within the sphere of "Laws of Universe" unless a Brahmgyani (any gender) is involved. In other words, Amrit is prepared with its roots in Duality (opposites coming together). And anything in duality needs to have opposite forces coming together: Shiva and Shakti. Shakti is represented by the Khanda/Sword/Bagauti and Shiva power needs to be in the form of 5 males (Five are required to move Seven to Twelve in Space). As this physical Amrit is NOT the real Amrit (real Amrit being Naam Amrit), therefore in order to prepare it one needs to have correct ingredients: Positive and Negative forces. One cannot prepare the strongest Amrit (which acts as initiation for Guru and will further lead to Raas) with the use of un-balanced ingredients. Now, why I think that Sanskar Amrit is within the Sphere of Laws: It is because: The 5K's (Kara, Kangha, Kachera, Kirpan, Kesh/Kesge) symbols are the physical symbols; they DO represent Spiritual purposes but still they are just physical symbols. How could we ridicule Janeu (Hindu thread) as manmat; janeu could also represent some Spiritual principle. So, how could we mock janeu but for 100% in for 5Ks as physical symbols?Guru Gobind Singh Ji choosing only men or say God only pushing man to stand for the cause DOES hold some purpose. As Guru Ji was 100% sure regarding what was written in Guru Granth Sahib Ji and as per Guru Granth Sahib Ji, man and woman does have equal opportunity and rights. So, he would not go against Guru Granth Sahib Ji.In Bachittar Natak, Guru has mentioned that in His previous life (not physical though) how he once fight with the demons and won the war. This is the time when Bhagauti told Guru Ji that when He will go to Earth for the establishment of new dharma, then She would offer her services and this is the reason Khanda is used while preparing Amrit. And Panj-Payas does represent Guru Gobind Singh Ji.Guru Gobind Singh Ji has told several times in history that He should NOT be considered God. Here I'm NOT trying to say that He was not God; I'm just trying to bring up the point that no Guru before Guru Gobind Singh Ji has said that in the same tone. He is not trying to be humble, may be He is trying to tell us something (that he indicated in His writings)Guru Gobind Singh Ji's birth and the creation of Khalsa was the requirement of those times but Guru Ji did NOT abolish the place of Saint/Sant (some call it physical Guru). e.g If you see all the yesteryear Sants after the creation of Khalsa, even though they did come under the umbrella of Khalsa but they are also the student under their respective Senior Teachers/Gurus/Sants.If the intention of any Guru (any 10 Gurus) was of to abolish the trend of physical Sant, then surely They must have provided in written format the Arths/Meanings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. But They did not do that because the key to the hidden treasures of Guru Granth Sahib Ji is still with the Sants.So, wraping up I could say that: Guru Gobind Singh Ji did come for different purpose (as per the requirement of time and order of Waheguru) and fullfilled His purpose; and his purpose was not the same as that of first 5 Gurus and 9th Guru. Even 6, 7, 8th Guru Ji have not recorded Their Bani in Guru Granth Sahib Ji as They were preparing the ground for the coming of 10th Guru. Read the story of Bib Bhani. Guru Gobind Singh Ji explicitly stated many times this fact in His writings: Bachittar Natak and His other writings. It is just us (the normal people) who didn't look deep enough. At last, I'm NOT saying that Khalsa was that time's need and we need not take Amrit. I'm just saying that people start debating this vs that without understanding the purpose of creation of Khalsa. Sometimes in different ingredients (having different powers) are necessary to bring up the Neutral/Precious stuff. e.g It is believed that lead could be transformed into gold in alchemy.

Satkirin, please read what paapiman has posted in true nature; he did NOT compare women to animal; he is just giving an example......try to understand that he is giving an example to derive his point to counter-argument yours. He has nowhere suggested that women are animals......STOP taking the words so literally. I personally 100% NEITHER support your arguments NOR support paapiman's. Just each of you need to understand what the other person has written instead of preconceived notion before posting your replies.

If anyone claims something to be perfect on the face-value, then he/she is bound to prove it and giving one's our account is perfect way. So, in other words, it's not the personal details. See bro, I'm not pulling your leg or trying to prove you wrong, but I just want to show you the reality. Don't go for right-wing thinking or left-wing thinking. You're bound to get failures. Follow the middle-path as suggested in Guru Ji. Sikhism as religion would NOT take you anywhere. Come out of your dream world. But the teachings of Sikhism (as written down in Guru Granth Sahib Ji) does have potential to lead you on the path of salvation quickly. But there are 2 conditions that must be fulfilled by anyone who want to ride fastest to salvation: 1. Understand the real meaning and core concepts of Gurbani. e.g Karma, Upsana, Gyan, importance of Guru etc. 2. And then Practice those teachings. These days, people have forgot the conditions but just claim that Sikhism is the fastest or some say the only. Real Sikhism is not what you see these days. Sikhism is NOT about the Amrit Sanchar, or Panj Payare, or equality vs inequality, or this vs that. It's sad to see that day by day, common people are converting the Sikhism into some package/box and then marketing it. Wake up. You might remember the conversation with Suleman with sangat during Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji's (Rara Sahib wale) time. Suleman was asked which religion is best: Listen to it and then understand the core he is talking about. He specifically mentioned that everything is same but in Sikhism it is easier to follow a Saint whereas in other religions (referring to Muslims) going to a Saint is NOT allowed. Bottom-line is: Sikhism was supposed to be fastest lane ONLY when: One understands the real meanings of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and does understand that there is a need for REAL Saints and practice the teachings. One Saint has given the following flow-chart to achieve Salvation: 1. Do the company of Sant/Mahapurash/Saint. 2. If you cannot do that, then do Naam (Meditation); Dan/Charity of 10% of your income to needy; Isnan (Bath). 3. If you cannot do Naam, Dan, and Isnan, then do not overburden yourself with sins. In other words, avoid doing sins. 4. If you cannot refain from sins, then it is better to die because without doing steps 1, 2, 3 you are bound to fall to lower planes. Are not the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib Ji teach exactly what is mentioned in the above 4 steps? Think about it.

You did not answer my question: How high you've risen in salvation?