chatanga

thats a very typical response from you, Fateh Singh. you always use the weaknesses of Sikh people to try and hide the lie that the namdharis propgoate. Kinda of like a theif going before a judge and saying what about all the other theives in the world m'lud ? you dont say anything to them... as usual you have offered nothing to the debate other than your cynicism. chat

thank you but i dont need your money. I do however want you to read the Guru History to see how many pretenders there were to the Gurgaddi of Guru Nanak Dev Jee, and also to read the chapter pertaining to namdharis on www.sarbloh.info to see how these pretenders are still continuing the tradition today. chatanga

Followers of 2 sects clash Our Correspondent Mandi, June 22 Namdharis and Neeldhari Sikhs, who had been living in peace for several decades here, came to blows over alleged derogatory remarks made sometime back by a self-styled 16-year-old ‘guru’, who claimed himself be the incarnation of Ramji Sahai. The teenaged ‘guru’ has been adopted by three families of Neeldharis in the town and a few others elsewhere in the country. A large number of Namdhari youths assembled outside the residence of one of the three devotees of the new ‘guru’ and raised slogans. As tempers were running high and clash between the three Neeldhari families and Namdhari youths seemed imminent a police party arrived on the scene and defused the situation. Namdharis allege that during the visit this self-styled ‘guru’ had made insulting and unbecoming remarks against their ‘guru’ in a discourse which had also been telecast by a local channel. Later, the office of the channel had caught fire at night in mysterious circumstances causing loss of lakhs. Earlier during the day a Namdhari from Delhi who also owed allegiance to the teenaged ‘guru’ was assaulted by some youths outside the gurdwara making the situation tense. District authorities claim that the situation was under control. Later in the evening, a five-member delegation of each community was called by Deputy Commissioner J.P. Singh, in his office where Neeldharis expressed regret over any remarks which might have been made by the ‘guru’ which hurt the feelings of Namdharis. They pledged to maintain the traditional peace and brotherhood between the two communities.

they split from the namdharis around the timez of Bhai Ram Singh. over what i cant remember. However they refer to Guru Granth Sahib as such and not granth Sahib as namdharis do.

When Guru Gobind Singh Ji baptized the five beloveds they came out from the tents wearing a blue attire. There is one saying which laid the foundation that every Nihang will have to wear blue clothes. Another saying goes like this; One day Sahibzada Fateh Singh ji came in front of Guru Gobind Singh Ji wearing blue ‘Dumalla’, on seeing this guru announced that people who will wear this dress will form a ‘Panth’ Another Saakhi goes like this; when guru ji removed the cloak of ‘Uch De Peer’ he tied a part of it to his ‘Kartar’. That was the origin of blue attire community When Mata Gujri saw her grandson in the blue uniform she said your great grand father the sixth Guru used to dress up in a same way. When they all came in front of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, he said that this is the most sacred wearing and reflects a true Khalsa. Later he (Guru) declared that every true Khalsa will have this appearance which reflects "Akal Purkh de Fauj". This place where guru founded the Khalsa panth was known as ‘Damal Gargh’. Hemkunt Sahib: Kamarkasa Compulsory: It is also compulsory to wear the Kamarkasa for every individual who is on pilgrimage to HEMKUNT SAHIB. In fact Nihang Sikhs still wear the Kamarkasa till today. “The Blue Colur signifies the believe in Peace and Non-Violence. The Chakuta (head dress)signifies a Child asking forgiveness from his Father, the Almighty Lord"

sorry , thats from allabout sikhs.com

havan and yagya make the country prosperous and bring down the rains when needed. This is one of the hukams of Baba Ram Singh Jee. My source is naamdhari world . com

"Baba Ram Singh was never reconciled to the rule of the British. His prediction about its early recession was implicitly believed by his followers, who were forbidden to join government service, to go to courts of law or learn the English language." This is from a passage about Baba Ram SIngh Jee. the naamdharis say that they do not wear the kirpans pn thier gatras now, but in their kanga. becasue of british opression. They still follow this hukam after over 60 years of the british going. But why do they not follow Baba Ram Singh hukam on not learning english. Surely if he is the Satguru his hukam should be followed by his devoted Sikhs. If however this hukam is no longer "valid" then why is the restriction on wearing kiroan in gatra still ongoing. serious replies only.

Baba Ram Singh Jee's hukam to his followers

so these saints are sikhs then i take it?

Duz anyone know of any hindu female saints? i havent heard of 1. come to think of ive nly heard of 1 sikh female saint.

I never heard of a hindu female saint.ever. enlighten me.

I was listening to some katha recently, and the katha wachak said that the Khalsa is the four castes combined. this is how he explained it: Brahman - when SIkh read bani praises Akal Khatri - when Sikhs protect the weak and innocent Vaish - when Sikh works dasan noha di kamai shudra - when a sikh Serves other humans What are your thoughts on this? chatanga

hindu female saint? plz explain in detail.

Thanks for your suggestion shaheediyan, but let me clarify one thing, i have no intention of giving fateh singh a hard time. I apologise if i have said anything against him as a person.

It has been lauded by namdharis that sikhi was dead , and there were no sikhs worth thier salt, until Bhai Ram Singh resurrected it. Why did Bhai Balak Singh let it die then? from the 1st guru to the 10 th guru sikhi alwyas expanded and grew, but by time of Bhai Ram Singh sikhi was dead, so what did Bhai Balak Singh do or not do to keep it from dying? Also spare a thought for all those poor SIkhs who looked upon Granth as Guru , when the actual Guru was living incognito just waiting for someone worthy enuff to be his successor. Come to think of was Baba Deep Singh, or Bhai Mani Singh, or the 5 beloved Sikhs who passed the test of Guru Gobind Singh, not worthy of gurgaddi amongst other sikhs that could have been worthy? also wearing of shastar is v. importaant as Guru Maharaaj has said in Dasam Guru Granth Sahib,but naamdharis dont wear shaastar just cos the britsh forbade them? Jehangir and Aurangzeb said only muslim can ride horse, only mulsim can wear dastar and be shastardhari and do this, and that, non muslims cant keep this and that. My beloved Guru to the beat of a nagara said we will do all of these things. What is fasle i will call false and i will fear no-one. Its fair to say that during the british years the namdhairs were under pressure not to wear arms, but what has stopped them since 1947. Why is Bhai Partap Singh afriad of giving such a call? when there has been so much debate of the contents of Aad Guru Granth Sahib, ie raagmala bhat bani etc, why cant Bhai Partap Singh clear up the issue once and for all, since he carries the jyot that Akal Parmeshwar gave to Guru Nanak Dev Ji. which passed to Guru Gobind Singh who recited the Aad Guru Granth Sahib to Bhai Mani Singh. Why is Bhai Partap Singh not equal to this task? Bhai Ram Singh was a mahaan GurSikh. But his followers have tried to make him into something he was not and has never been , just like the bandai Khalsa tried to do with Baba Banda Singh Bahadur. I have nothing but admiration and respect for Bhai Ram Singh if anyone thinks otherwise, thats up to you. But I cant respect the veil of falsehood that his supporters have created and made a mockery of the Guru Granth and Guru Panth. chatanga

whats a hindu santani?

In the 52 hukams of Guru Gobind Singh , it states that a Sikh should never marry his daughter to a nonsikh. or mona etc, But for sons i think the usual practice if for the children to thake the religion of the father, so the offspring would be Sikhs even the Sikh son married a non-sikh. Duz this make sense?

I asked a question on the nirmalas a while ago . it went unanswered. can su,one tell me that the 5 Sikhs who went to kashi to recieve vidya at behest of Guru Ji , they all had singhs as their name, altho this was about 10 years before the revelation of khalsa panth. weere these thier original names ?if no what were? its not on sarbloh.com

thats so good. the persian zafarnama starts with ""awgat sri wahguru ji ki fateh"". What does awgat mean? Any answers? will tell you the rest when i have time.

Saw this on a website . Seeeing as we have been discussingr4g activities what are your views on this. A point has been made about youngsters geting angry and a need for respectable elders to take the main stand so elders wont be abused. Serious replies plz. Respect For Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Campaign Press Release 16th July 2006, Watford, Hertfordshire. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!! Over a period of 2 months members of the British Sikh Community have been in discussion with the a group of so-called “Sikh†individuals from Watford who hold monthly diwans (Sikh religious gathering) at the Multi Racial Community Centre Hall in Watford. After numerous meetings with the Community Centre, Hertfordshire Police & Commission for Racial Equality (Hertfordshire), a small faction of this group of individuals were still adamant to proceed with taking Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (Sikh Holy Religious Scriptures revered as the embodiment of God) to the Community Centre. As per the Hukumnama (Order) of Sri Akal Takht Sahib (Sikh Seat of Sovereignty in Punjab, India) Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji cannot be taken to environments where alcohol, meat and tobacco are served and consumed. These individuals refused to work towards having the diwan at Sri Guru Singh Sabha Gurdwara, Watford (local Sikh Temple) for the reasons that they wanted to run the Sikh Gurdwara in Watford but were not voted in as Committee members. On 31 July 2006 over 80 Sikhs from around the United Kingdom gathered to peacefully protest at the Multi-Racial Community Centre, Watford and prevent the Saroop of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji from being taken into the complex. After offering prayers at the Sri Guru Singh Sabha Gurdwara, Watford, the Sangat (Sikh Congregation) proceeded towards the Multi-Racial Community Centre. The Sangat continued attempts to persuade the faction of the “Sikh†individuals at MRCC committee to adhere to Sikh Rehit Maryada (Sikh Code of Conduct) and re-arrange the diwan to the local Gurdwara. Unknowingly to the Sikh Congregation who had gathered to peacefully protest, the Saroop (embodiment) of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was in a metal suitcase placed on the front seat of a car that was parked on the road opposite the Community Centre. This was deeply offensive, deceitful and extremely distressing not to mention one of the most disrespectful acts that could be carried out in the Sikh faith, as Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is never transported in a suitcase as a mere “object†of the Sikh Religion. Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the eternal Guru of the Sikhs. Once the gathered Sikh congregation became aware of this extremely hurtful and upsetting act, the shocked congregation sat around the car reciting prayers for over an hour. In that time the culprits who had carried out one of the most insulting acts in the Sikh religion could not come out of the car. Present at this protest was Hertfordshire Police and representatives of Commission of Racial Equality (Hertfordshire). They all gave in to the conviction of the gathered Sikh congregation and agreed to their demand that five Sikhs will take the Saroop of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to Watford Gurdwara and the diwan will not take place in the MMRC. Sri Guru Granth Sahib was respectfully removed from the suitcase and re-clothed. Prayers were performed and the Sikh Congregation asked for forgiveness for any wrongdoing. The Saroop was respectfully taken to the Sachkhand (resting place for Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji) of Watford Gurdwara. Further resolve was achieved when the “Sikh†individuals at MRCC committee verbally promised, in the presence of the Police & CRE representatives that this diwan, and therefore any other insulting act that would offend Sikhs, will never take place again in Watford. Also a young member representing this committee attended Watford Gurdwara after the incident and apologised for their behaviour and re-iterated that the diwan will never take place again. However, the resolve by Police & CRE intermediaries included a written statement promised from the individuals that diwan will not take place. The individuals must produce this documentation to give confidence that any disrespect towards Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and offence to the British Sikh community will not happen again. The British Sikh Community will not allow individuals to exploit the Sikh Religion as a means of settling personal conflicts. Once again, the British Sikh Community has shown their love for their father Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. The elders and youth who were present on the protest conducted themselves as true Khalsa and upheld the ideals of the Sikh Religion. With Guruji's blessings the British Sikh Community continues to uphold respect for Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. GurFateh!! -- ------------------ Respect for Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Campaign

Baba Jee got his vidya from Baba Mit Singh in the 1940s? How old is Baba Jee? I thought he was only around 60/70 years old. chatanga

It was time for a change Dynamic. I like it . It reminds me of xmas plays " HE'S BEHIND YOU!!!" the audience shout. chatanga

I understand that old people infirm people are unable to sit on the floor, so having tables for them is nothing wrong. However provisions are not made for both in some gurdawaras i have seen. In most you sit on tables only, in a few you sit on floor only, and a few have provisions for tables and floor. what are your4 experinces on this? chatanga

That is a brilliant post. You are really fortunaet to have darshan and updesh from so many saints. The tapes of Sant Isar Singh that you have put on gurmat veechar, was it not possible to compress the files at all before putting them on? The files are really big. Boo yah to the nihangs taking the tapes of Baba SAnta Singh Ji.I would have loved to hear more katha from him. There is so little of Baba Ji on the net. WHY DINT YA HIDE THE TAPES IN YOUR KAMRKASA? chatanga