Silence

baba fareed ji and bhagat kabir ji were not muslim,there is no way that either was a folower of mohammed when he did ucharan of dhur ki bani which is Satguru. as for islam: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/41588-bachitter-natak-on-muhammad/ (scroll down to the post by 'UKGupt Kaur')

tomorrow is the deadline, The academy is an amazing place doing so much gurmat parchar to the youth, it will be a tremendous loss and blow to the panth and not to mention the kids if it closes down. update: " Gurfateh Jee with the beant kirpa of Dhan Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Maharaj I am overjoyed to inform that I have just come home from the Academy after being blessed with the amazing darshan of our Guru Sahib's at amritvela and been informed by the Sevadaars from the Seva Team that the total collected has now reached an outstanding £52,300. This is an unbelievable achievment in such a short space of time, once again all the Sevadaar, the Sangat and all the Children of the Academy would from the bottom of their hearts sincerly like to thank first and foremost, Dhan Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee Maharaj and then all the Guru Roop SaadSangat from across the whole world. Not just for their daswand (every £1 given is just as important as every £1,000, just as the great oceans are made of small raindrops, every great achievment is the result of every single action) but just as importantly for their concern and guidance for the future. Hopefully this beacon, our true mothers Academy can act as a shining light in this dark age of kaljug to help end our infighting once and for all and unite us eternally under one Nishan Sahib just as Dhan Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee Maharaj blessed us to. The Sevadaar from the Academy would like to do a baentee once again to all the SaadSangat, please come to the Academy, or ring the Seva Team on 07540 646982 for any info whatsoever regarding any aspect of the historical/current situation of the Academy, but please do not argue, swear, abuse, falsify statements,try to create doubts in the sangat or fight each other (We are all blessed to have the same JOT of Akaal Purakh Waheguru inside us) via this or any other thread on this forum Sikhsangat(Without whose amazing Seva and coverage none of this awareness worldwide would have been possible) as this is exactly what the dream of the Academy was over two years ago - to keep children away from these same evils that have poisioned our breath taking Khalsa Panth. With Maharaj's Apaar Kirpa although there still seems to be virtually an impossible task ahead of us, but if we truly believe in the power of our pavitar Ardas and the unity of the supreme Khalsa Fauj, there is nothing that isn't possible in Maharaj's Hukam. So please lets all make one last push to do as much as we can, to give as much as we can and instead of trying to continously dig and dig for answers to questions that do not exist, lets concentrate all the forthcoming posts on this thread to postively achieve together in Guru Jee's Charan. A few weeks ago one of the Sevadaar from the academy told me that when they were originally blessed with the Seva at the Academy there was vichar amongst the Sangat regarding the name for the academy. Somebody from the Sangat stepped up and said "Mata Sahib Kaur Sikh Academy - what we need today more than anything is a true MOTHER to save her wayward children" there was a very wholesome Jakara from all present ! Dhan Guru Dhan Guru Pyarae Gurfateh"

the same channel is now showing a repeat of the same meeting right now (7 pm 16th january)

meeting from academy being shown on sky channel 848 sikh tv right now since 3pm 16th january 2011

Found this on sikhsangat.com http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/58422-official-statement-from-mata-sahib-kaur-sikh-academy-regarding-financial-situation-bank-details/ Waheguru Ji Ki Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh I received an official statement from 'Mata Sahib Kaur Sikh Academy' regarding the financial situation and structure, I have pasted a copy of the statement below. Guru Roop Saadsangat Jeo The following is a short summary of the financial situation that the Mata Sahib Kaur Sikh Academy is currently experiencing : Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa Waheguru Jee Ke Fateh In July 2008 a loan of 1.2million for two years was taken out with Natwest bank, in conjunction with the purchase of the Mata Sahib Kaur Sikh Academy. With the grace of Akaal Purkh Waheguru and thanks to the Saadsangat not only across the UK, but Worldwide, all the Quarterly repayments to Natwest bank have always been made on time and over 200,000 has been spent on the total refurbishment and additions of the Academy since it’s purchase. This loan agreement expired in July 2010, with the bank (Due to the worldwide financial climate/recession and restructuring of banks) calling in the whole of the outstanding amount of 1.2million. With continous negogiations the bank then extended the deadline for full repayment of the outstanding debt to the end of September 2010. However, with the continous help of the Saadsangat an improved business plan with the addition of a pre-school nursery was submitted to Natwest bank, and thankfully the amount required to restructure the loan agreement was agreed to be 300,000; incorporating a deadline of 31st December 2010, with which the bank agreed. With Guru Maharaj’s beant kirpa a sum of 150,000 has been arranged and this leaves a shortfall of just 150,000. Although the deadline has once again expired, the idea is to forward all the outstanding amount to Natwest bank ASAP, as it is collected, hopefully within the next 14 days; before the case is passed to the Bank’s Recovery Dept, which would make it virtually impossible to secure a deal on the previously agreed terms. This is a humble baentee to all Saadsangat that today on the day we celebrate the pavitar avtar divas of Dhan Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee Maharaj, please, please, please look inside ourselves and with the Guru’s kirpa be brave and give any amount you can to save our true mothers house, always remembering and rejoicing in the thought that our amazing father gave their all for us. Dhan GURU , DHAN GURU PYARE Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa Waheguru Jee Ke Fateh Below are the bank account details for those members of the sangat who which to make a donation towards saving the academy: Payee Details: Account Name: SCYS Ilford Reference: The Academy Sort Code: 01-08-15 Account Number: 53596595 There will be an urgent meeting being held at Mata Sahib Kaur Sikh Academy on Wednesday 12th January at 8:00PM. This will be to discuss the financial situation and for the sangat to ask any questions they may have, the meeting is open to all sangat, below are the Academy details for those wishing to attend Mata Sahib Kaur Academy 8 Oaks Lane Newbury Park Ilford Essex IG2 7PL Akaaaal

very interesting article on nindra and tandra here: gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,8911,8911 and also this interesting story: http://www.tapoban.org/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=2541&t=2541 The following is a short story translated from "Gurmukh Darshan" Author : Giani Kirpal Singh Jee This took place ~1927, when Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh jee Khalsa was ~25years old. "In those days there werern't many sevadaars that could recite GurbaNee in Sri Akhand Paath Sahib correctly; these sevaadaars were rare. Due to this reason, our village's Nihung Singh Bhai Taara Singh jee, Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Jee and myself would be asked to fulfill the seva of Sri Akhand Paath sahib. Also worth noting, Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh jee were always found to be in a tranquil and worriless state of mood. Furthermore, Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh jee would never accept any monetary donations for fulfilling his duties as an Akhand Paath sevadaar. One time in Doaba, there was a Sri Akhand Paath sahib that had already commenced, Baba jee had completed the duty of Sri Akhand Paath seva at 4am and went to a nearby room and started reciting his Nitnem dee banee, while reading he fell asleep. From a nearby room, we heard a voice reciting Gurbanee out loud, out of curiosity myself and other singh's went to the voice. We found it was Baba Jee reciting Gurbanee in his sleep. We went and sat around him and we had listened to him do paath for a half hour in which time we noticed that he had started reading Gurbanee from Sri Akhand Paath sahib. He had left his sevaa for Sri Akhand Paath Sahib at "sorath raag" that is exactly where he had continued reciting from in his sleep. The other sevaadaars that were sitting there listening to him noticed that he had not made a single error in his recitation, we were all left amazed."

http://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,160,166 chek out bhai sahib kulbir singh ji's posts, tips for getting up at the end of one. [below taken from the link]: "Some Tips for getting up at Amritvela 1) Let’s face it. We are not Brahmgyanis. So we should not try to imitate them either. Brahmgyanis may sleep (in so called sleep too they japp Naam) at midnight and still get up an hour or two hours later. But we are mortal beings. We must sleep early if we want to get up early. 2) One may sleep late and still get up early for 1 day, 2 days, 3 days or even a week but eventually he will be fatigued and sooner or later will lose or miss Amritvela. 3) A normal person needs at least 5-6 hours of sleep. If one wants to get up at 2am, then one must strive to sleep at 8pm. 4) Another thing to note is that if we sleep well at night, there is much more energy to japp Naam at Amritvela and concentration is much deeper. 5) If one is to sleep at 8pm, one must eat dinner by 6pm and then walk a little after eating. If one takes dinner at 9pm and sleep at 10-11, it is much harder to get up at Amritvela. As per experience of many Gursikhs heavy dinner, late at night, is an impediment in getting up early. 6) Do Kirtan Sohila with full concentration and do ardaas before Guru Sahib for Amritvela. 7) Before sleeping, one should try to concentrate on Naam Abhyaas or repeatedly do short Gurbani paaths like Ramkali kee Vaar and Basant kee Vaar. 8) At Amritvela, one should strive to do Ishnaan with cold water. This helps in concentration. Despite all the efforts and tricks, we must realize that Amritvela after all is a gift of Vaheguru. For this reason, the foremost thing to do is to supplicate and beg before Guru Sahib for this gift. If Guru Sahib beholds us with the eye of grace, then Amritvela is done effortlessly. Daas, Kulbir Singh"

not sure about ang but i found this http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=20393 is that the shabad u were looking for?

http://www.jathashaheedan.com/ especially this article: http://www.jathashaheedan.com/jotaksal.php quite further down the page, starting at "As we know from vichar in earlier section, title of Shaheed was bestowed upon Gursikhs who would live through hard times carrying on Gurmat Parchar." I found everything onwards extremely interesting.

Jeeo recieve Naam drir from the panj pyare all your questions will be answered. http://abhiyaas.blogspot.com/2005/12/how-do-we-do-simran.html

Find this thought quite interesting http://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,10013 I think what is essentialy being asked is if a husband and wife are limiting the love making side of relationship are there spiritual alternatives for pleasure and to bond in the same if not greater way?

In gurbani both words occur with variations in spelling, im not sure how many variations and what these are, for example ਰਾਮ and ਰਾਮੁ, there seem to be different pages come up when searching the meanings of these in srigranth. I have posted a few variations of spelling of each word, but as I don't know how many and what variations there are, I can't search them to see if they have different meanings. ਰਾਮੁ: SGGS Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary (1) ਪ੍ਰਭੂ; ਵੇਖੋ 'ਰਾਮਿ'। (2) ਅਯੋਧਿਆ ਦਾ ਸੂਰਜਵੰਸ਼ੀ ਰਾਜਾ 'ਰਾਮਚੰਦਰ' ਜਿਸਨੂੰ ਹਿੰਦੂ ਧਰਮ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਦੇਵਤਾ ਮੰਨਿਆ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਹੈ। ਉਦਾਹਰਣ: ਤ੍ਰੇਤੈ ਤੈ ਮਾਣਿਓ ਰਾਮੁ ਰਘੁਵੰਸੁ ਕਹਾਇਓ॥ {ਸਵ ੧, ੭:੨ (1390)}। ਤਿਨ ਮਹਿ ਰਾਮੁ ਰਹਿਆ ਭਰਪੂਰ॥ {ਜਪੁ ੧, ੩੭:੪ (8)}। ਭਾਈ ਰੇ ਰਾਮੁ ਕਹਹੁ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇ॥ {ਸਿਰੀ ੧, ੨੩, Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia ਦੇਖੋ, ਰਾਮ ੧. "ਸਭ ਸੁਖਦਾਤਾ ਰਾਮੁ ਹੈ, ਦੂਸਰ ਨਾਹਿਨ ਕੋਇ". (ਸਃ ਮਃ ੯). Mahan Kosh data provided by Bhai Baljinder Singh (RaraSahib Wale); See http://www.ik13.com ਰਾਮ: SGGS Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary (1) ਸਰਬ ਵਿਆਪੀ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂ। (2) ਰਾਮਚੰਦ, ਸੂਰਜਵੰਸ਼ੀ ਅਯੋਧਿਆ ਦੇ ਰਾਜਾ ਦਸ਼ਰਥ ਦਾ ਪੁੱਤਰ। (3) ਹੇ ਰਾਮ, ਹੇ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ। (4) (ਭਾਵ) ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ, ਆਤਮਕ। (5) ਰਾਮ ਗਣ ਦਾ ਸੰਖੇਪ, ਦੇਵਦੂਤ। ਉਦਾਹਰਣ: ਗਾਵਨਿ ਸੀਤਾ ਰਾਜੇ ਰਾਮ॥ {ਆਸਾ ੧, ਵਾਰ ੫ ਸ, ੧, ੨:੮ (465)}। ਜਮ ਤੇ ਉਲਟ ਭਏ ਹੈ ਰਾਮ॥ {ਗਉ ਕਬ, ੧੭, ੧:੧ (326)}। SGGS Gurmukhi-English Dictionary P. n. One who pervades everything i.e. God SGGS Gurmukhi-English Data provided by Harjinder Singh Gill, Santa Monica, CA, USA. English Translation n.m. God lord Rama. Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia ਦੇਖੋ, ਰਾਮੁ Mahan Kosh data provided by Bhai Baljinder Singh (RaraSahib Wale); See http://www.ik13.com ਹਰ: SGGS Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary ਰਫਾ ਕਰ ਦਿੰਦੀ ਹੈ, ਹਰੇ, ਹਰੇਕ। ਉਦਾਹਰਣ: ਹਰ ਹਰਾ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਸੁਖਹ ਗਾਮੀ ਅਨਦ ਮੰਗਲ ਰਸੁ ਘਣਾ॥ {ਬਿਲਾ ੫, ਛੰਤ ੩, ੫:੩ (847)}। SGGS Gurmukhi-English Dictionary Sk. n. Per. Indecl. God, all, everyone, each SGGS Gurmukhi-English Data provided by Harjinder Singh Gill, Santa Monica, CA, USA. English Translation (1) Each, every, any. (2) Denominator. Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia ਵਿ- ਹਰਾ. ਹਰਿਤ. "ਜੈਸ ਬਨ ਹਰ ਪਾਤ". (ਸਾਰ ਕਬੀਰ) "ਬਨ ਹਰ ਪਾਤ ਰੇ". (ਧਨਾ ਮਃ ੫)। (2) ਸੰ. {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਰੁਦ੍ਰ. ਸ਼ਿਵ. "ਕਮਲਾਸਨ ਧ੍ਯਾਵਤ ਜਾਹਿ ਭਜੇ ਹਰ". (ਗੁਪ੍ਰਸੂ)। (3) ਅਗਨਿ। (4) ਕਾਲ। (5) ਲੈ ਜਾਣਾ. ਹਰਣ. "ਮੇਰੀ ਹਰਹੁ. ਬਿਪਤਿ". (ਗਉ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ)। (6) ਫ਼ਾ. __ ਵ੍ਯ- ਕੁੱਲ. ਪ੍ਰਤਿ. ਹਰ ਇੱਕ. "ਹਰਦਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਮਰਨੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਭਾਈ". (ਗਉ ਮਃ ੫) "ਬੰਦੇ ਖੋਜੁ ਦਿਲ ਹਰਰੋਜ". (ਤਿਲੰ ਕਬੀਰ)। (7) ਹਲ ਦੀ ਥਾਂ ਭੀ ਹਰ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦੇਖੀਦਾ ਹੈ. "ਹਰ ਬਾਹਤ ਇਕ ਪੁਰਖ ਨਿਹਾਰਾ". (ਦੱਤਾਵ)। (8) ਗੁਰੁਬਾਣੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਹਰਿ ਦੀ ਥਾਂ ਭੀ ਹਰ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਅਨੇਕ ਥਾਂ ਆਇਆ ਹੈ, ਜੋ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਬੋਧਕ ਹੈ। (9) ਇੱਕ ਰਾਜਪੂਤ ਜਾਤਿ, ਜੋ ਬਹੁਤ ਕਰਕੇ ਬੂੰਦੀ ਦੇ ਇਲਾਕੇ ਪਾਈ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ. ਇਸ ਤੋਂ "ਹਰਾਵਲੀ" ਸ਼ਬਦ ਬਣਿਆ ਹੈ. ਦੇਖੋ, ਹਰਾਵਲੀ. Mahan Kosh data provided by Bhai Baljinder Singh (RaraSahib Wale); See http://www.ik13.com ਹਰਿ: SGGS Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary ਹਰੇ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੂੰ, ਹੇ ਮਹਾਂਰਾਜ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨਾਲ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਵਲ, ਹੇ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ, ਰੋਜ਼, ਹਰੀ ਦੀ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦੇ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂ, ਪ੍ਰਮਾਤਮਾ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨੇ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨਾਲ, ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਦਾ। ਉਦਾਹਰਣ: ਹਰਿ ਕੇ ਜਨ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਤਪੁਰਖਾ ਬਿਨਉ ਕਰਉ ਗੁਰ ਪਾਸਿ॥ {ਗੂਜ ੪, ਸੋਦ ੪, ੧*:੧ (10)}। ਹਰਿ ਜੂ ਰਾਖਿ ਲੇਹੁ ਪਤਿ ਮੇਰੀ॥ {ਜੈਤ ੯, ੨ SGGS Gurmukhi-English Dictionary Sk. n. Diamond SGGS Gurmukhi-English Data provided by Harjinder Singh Gill, Santa Monica, CA, USA. English Translation God. Mahan Kosh Encyclopedia ਵਿ- ਹਰ਼ਿਤ (ਹਰਾ) ਦਾ ਸੰਖੇਪ. "ਦਾਵਾ ਅਗਨਿ ਰਹੇ ਹਰਿ ਬੂਟ". (ਰਾਮ ਅਃ ਮਃ ੫) ਹਰੇ ਬੂਟੇ। (2) ਹਰਇੱਕ. ਹਰੇਕ. "ਹਰਿ ਭਾਵੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਿਸਤਾਰੇ". (ਗੂਜ ਮਃ ੪)। (3) ਕਿਰ. ਵਿ- ਹਰਕੇ. ਚੁਰਾਕੇ. "ਹਰਿ ਧਨ ਪਾਪ ਕਰੰਤ". (ਸਲੋਹ)। (4) ਸੰ. (हृ- इन) {ਸੰਗ੍ਯਾ}. ਵਿਸਨੁ. "ਦਸਿਕ ਅਸੁਰ ਹਰਿ ਘਾਏ". (ਹਜਾਰੇ ੧੦)। (5) ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਜੀ ੬. ਪੌਂਡਕ ਵਾਸੁਦੇਵ. "ਆਇ ਭਿਰ੍ਯੋ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਸੋਂ". ¹ (ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨਾਵ) ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਜੀ ਨਾਲ ਪੌਂਡ੍ਰਕ ਵਾਸੁਦੇਵ ਆਕੇ ਲੜਿਆ। (7) ਕਰਤਾਰ. ਪਰਮੇਸ਼੍ਵਰ. "ਬਿਨ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਨ ਬਾਚਨ ਪੈਹੈ". (ਹਜਾਰੇ ੧੦) "ਹਰਿ ਸਿੰਘਾਸਣੁ ਦੀਅਉ ਸਿਰਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਤਹ ਬੈਠਾਯਉ". (ਸਵੈਯੇ ਮਃ ੫. ਕੇ)। (8) ਚੰਦ੍ਰਮਾ. "ਹਰਿ ਸੋ ਮੁਖ ਹੈ". (ਚੰਡੀ ੧)। (9) ਸਿੰਹੁ. ਸ਼ੇਰ। (10) "ਹਰਿ ੧੦. ਸੂਰਜ. "ਹਰਿ ਵੰਸ਼ ਵਿਖੇ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਭਏ". (ਗੁਪ੍ਰਸੂ)। (11) ਤੋਤਾ। (12) ਸਰਪ। (13) ਬਾਂਦਰ. ਵਾਨਰ. "ਹਤ ਰਾਵਣ ਕੋ ਲਿਯ ਸੰਗ ਚਮੂ ਹਰਿ". (ਗੁਪ੍ਰਸੂ)। (14) ਡੱਡੂ. ਮੇਂਡਕ। (15) ਪੌਣ. ਹਵਾ। (16) ਘੋੜਾ। (17) ਯਮ। (18) ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ। (19) ਇੰਦ੍ਰ। (20) ਕਿਰਣ. ਰਸ਼ਿਮ੍। (21) ਮੋਰ। ੨੨ ਕੋਕਿਲਾ। ੨੩ ਹੰਸ। ੨੪ ਅਗਨਿ। ੨੫ ਜਲ. ਦੇਖੋ, ਘਨਿ। ੨੬ ਪੀਲਾ ਰੰਗ। ੨੭ ਮਾਰਗ. ਰਸਤਾ। ੨੮ ਪਰਬਤ। ੨੯ ਹਾਥੀ। ੩੦ ਕਮਲ। ੩੧ ਰਾਜਾ। ੩੨ ਭੌਰਾ. ਭ੍ਰਮਰ। ੩੩ ਸੁਵਰਣ. ਸੋਨਾ. "ਸ੍ਰਿੰਗ ਧਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਧੇਨੁ ਹਜਾਰਾ". (ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨਾਵ) ੩੪ ਕਾਮਦੇਵ। ੩੫ ਮ੍ਰਿਗ. ਹਰਿਣ (ਹਰਨ) ੩੬ ਬਨ. ਜੰਗਲ. ਦੇਖੋ, ਦੌਂ। ੩੭ ਮੇਘ. ਬੱਦਲ. "ਘਨ ਸ੍ਯਾਮ ਬਿਰਾਜਤ ਹੈਂ ਹਰਿ, ਰਾਧਿਕਾ ਬਿੱਦੁਲਤਾ". (ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨਾਵ) ੩੮ ਆਕਾਸ਼। ੩੯ ਧਨੁਖ। ੪੦ ਬਾਣ. ਤੀਰ। ੪੧ ਖੜਗ. "ਕਰੱਧਰ ਕੈ ਹਰਿ" (ਚੰਡੀ ੧) ੪੨ ਸੰਖ "ਨਾਦ ਪ੍ਰਚੰਡ ਸੁਨ੍ਯੋ ਹਰਿ ਕਾ". (ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨਾਵ) ੪੩ ਚੰਦਨ. "ਹਿਰਡ ਪਲਾਸ ਸੰਗ ਹਰਿ ਬੁਹੀਆ". (ਬਿਲਾ ਅਃ ਮਃ ੪) ੪੪ ਹਰਿ ਚੰਦਨ, ਜੋ ਸੁਰਗ ਦਾ ਬਿਰਛ ਹੈ". ਪਾਰਜਾਤ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਰੁਖੁ". (ਟੋਡੀ ਮਃ ੫) ਪਾਰਿਜਾਤ ਅਤੇ ਹਰਿਚੰਦਨ ਬਿਰਛ ਹਰਿ (ਕਰਤਾਰ) ਹੈ. ਉੱਪਰ ਲਿਖੇ ਹਰਿ ਸ਼ਬਦ ਦੇ ਬਹੁਤ ਉਦਾਹਰਣ ਹੇਠ ਲਿਖੇ ਸਵੈਯੇ ਵਿੱਚ ਦੇਖੇ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ- (ੳ) ਹਰਿ ਸੋ ਮੁਖ ਹੈ ਹਰਤੀ ਦੁਖ ਹੈ, ਅਲਕੈਂ ਹਰਹਾਰ ਪ੍ਰਭਾ ਹਰਨੀ ਹੈ। (ਅ) ਲੋਚਨ ਹੈਂ ਹਰਿ ਸੇ ਸਰਸੇ, ਹਰਿ ਸੇ ਭਰੁਟੇ ਹਰਿ ਸੀ ਬਰਨੀ ਹੈ। (ੲ) ਕੇਹਰਿ ਸੋ ਕਰਿਹਾਂ, ਚਲਬੋ ਹਰਿ, ਪੈ ਹਰਿ ਕੀ ਹਰਨੀ ਤਰਨੀ ਹੈ। (ਸ) ਹੈ ਕਰ ਮੇ ਹਰਿ ਪੈ ਹਰਿ ਸੋ, ਹਰਿਰੂਪ ਕਿਯੇ ਹਰ ਕੀ ਧਰਨੀ ਹੈ. (ਚੰਡੀ ੧) (ਉ) ਚੰਦ ਜੇਹਾ ਮੁਖ ਹੈ, ਦੁੱਖ ਦੂਰ ਕਰਦੀ ਹੈ, ਜੁਲਫਾਂ ਸ਼ਿਵ ਦੇ ਹਾਰ (ਸੱਪ) ਦੀ ਸ਼ੋਭਾ ਚੁਰਾਉਂਦੀਆਂ ਹਨ. (ਅ) ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ਕਮਲ ਤੋਂ ਵਧਕੇ ਕਮਾਣ ਜੇਹੀ ਭੌਹਾਂ, ਤੀਰ ਜੇਹੀ ਪਲਕਾਂ ਹਨ. (ੲ) ਸ਼ੇਰ ਜੇਹਾ ਕਟਿਭਾਗ, ਹਾਥੀ ਜੇਹੀ ਚਾਲ, ਹਰਿ ਤਰੁਣੀ (ਕਾਮ ਦੀ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ- ਰਤਿ) ਦੀ ਸ਼ੋਭਾ ਦੂਰ ਕਰਨ ਵਾਲੀ ਹੈ. (ਸ) ਹੱਥ ਵਿੱਚ ਖੜਗ ਹੈ, ਜੋ ਸੂਰਜ ਜੇਹਾ ਚਮਕੀਲਾ ਹੈ, ਮਨੋਹਰ ਰੂਪ ਧਾਰੇ ਹੋਏ ਸ਼ਿਵ ਦੀ ਅਰਧਾਂਗਿਨੀ ਹੈ. [¹ਦੇਖੋ, ਪਉਡਰੀਕ.] Mahan Kosh data provided by Bhai Baljinder Singh (RaraSahib Wale); See http://www.ik13.com ਹਰੁ: SGGS Gurmukhi-Gurmukhi Dictionary ਦੂਰ ਕਰ। ਉਦਾਹਰਣ: ਲੇਵਹੁ ਕੰਠਿ ਲਗਾਇ ਅਪਦਾ ਸਭ ਹਰੁ॥ {ਸਾਰ ੪, ਵਾਰ ੩੬ਸ, ੫, ੧:੪ (1251)}। SGGS Gurmukhi-English Dictionary var. From Hara SGGS Gurmukhi-English Data provided by Harjinder Singh Gill, Santa Monica, CA, USA.

they are kirtam naams (attributes) of vaheguru, not references to the raam chandar ji and krishan ji that hindus make idols of and worship. ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮ ਕਹਨ ਮਹਿ ਭੇਦੁ ਹੈ ਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੁ ਬਿਚਾਰੁ ॥ Kabīr rām kahan mėh bẖeḏ hai ṯā mėh ek bicẖār. Kabeer, it does make a difference, how you chant the Lord's Name, 'Raam'. This is something to consider. ਸੋਈ ਰਾਮੁ ਸਭੈ ਕਹਹਿ ਸੋਈ ਕਉਤਕਹਾਰ ॥੧੯੦॥ So▫ī rām sabẖai kahėh so▫ī ka▫uṯakhār. ||190|| Everyone uses the same word for the son of Dasrath and the Wondrous Lord. ||190|| ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੈ ਰਾਮ ਕਹੁ ਕਹਿਬੇ ਮਾਹਿ ਬਿਬੇਕ ॥ Kabīr rāmai rām kaho kahibe māhi bibek. Kabeer, use the word 'Raam', only to speak of the All-pervading Lord. You must make that distinction. ਏਕੁ ਅਨੇਕਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਗਇਆ ਏਕ ਸਮਾਨਾ ਏਕ ॥੧੯੧॥ Ėk anekėh mil ga▫i▫ā ek samānā ek. ||191|| One 'Raam' is pervading everywhere, while the other is contained only in himself. ||191|| mahankosh has literal meanings of both kirtam naams (check out srigranth.org).

http://www.tapoban.org/forum/read.php?1,4508,page=1 http://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,2586,2586 I agree with Bhai Kulbir Singh

professor sahib singh teeka http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1082&g=1&h=1&r=0&t=1&p=0&k=1 also check this veechar out, its not of the same shabad but it also talks about govardhan mountain incident. http://www.tapoban.org/forum/read.php?1,81,81

does anyone know if there is any audio of that recording available? Or another one with similar instruments in background, not just spoken/sang on own.

Sarbat da pala,ONE request: please do ardaas for answers to all your questions and then take a hukamnama. If done with faith and if it pleases him, u will have all of your answers. If you need help interpreting post it here or ask gurmukhs/sants for help understanding. You could even listen to a katha of that shabad by someone like Sant Gyani Gurbachan Singh Ji or Sant Kartar Singh ji (bhindra). If you had Guru Gobind Singh Ji to ask this question to, you would wouldn't u? Well he is here as Guru Granth Sahib Ji, so get your answers from your Guru! ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਬਿਨਾ ਹੋਰ ਕਚੀ ਹੈ ਬਾਣੀ ॥ Saṯgurū binā hor kacẖī hai baṇī. Without the True Guru, other songs are false. ਬਾਣੀ ਤ ਕਚੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਹੋਰ ਕਚੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥ Baṇī ṯa kacẖī saṯgurū bājẖahu hor kacẖī baṇī. The songs are false without the True Guru; all other songs are false. ਕਹਦੇ ਕਚੇ ਸੁਣਦੇ ਕਚੇ ਕਚੀ ਆਖਿ ਵਖਾਣੀ ॥ Kahḏe kacẖe suṇḏe kacẖe kacẖīʼn ākẖ vakẖāṇī. The speakers are false, and the listeners are false; those who speak and recite are false. ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਿਤ ਕਰਹਿ ਰਸਨਾ ਕਹਿਆ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਜਾਣੀ ॥ Har har niṯ karahi rasnā kahi▫ā kacẖẖū na jāṇī. They may continually chant, 'Har, Har' with their tongues, but they do not know what they are saying. ਚਿਤੁ ਜਿਨ ਕਾ ਹਿਰਿ ਲਇਆ ਮਾਇਆ ਬੋਲਨਿ ਪਏ ਰਵਾਣੀ ॥ Cẖiṯ jin kā hir la▫i▫ā mā▫i▫ā bolan pa▫e ravāṇī. Their consciousness is lured by Maya; they are just reciting mechanically. ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਹੋਰ ਕਚੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥੨੪॥ Kahai Nānak saṯgurū bājẖahu hor kacẖī baṇī. ||24|| Says Nanak, without the True Guru, other songs are false. ||24|| ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਰਤੰਨੁ ਹੈ ਹੀਰੇ ਜਿਤੁ ਜੜਾਉ ॥ Gur kā sabaḏ raṯann hai hīre jiṯ jaṛā▫o. The Word of the Guru's Shabad is a jewel, studded with diamonds. ਸਬਦੁ ਰਤਨੁ ਜਿਤੁ ਮੰਨੁ ਲਾਗਾ ਏਹੁ ਹੋਆ ਸਮਾਉ ॥ Sabaḏ raṯan jiṯ man lāgā ehu ho▫ā samā▫o. The mind which is attached to this jewel, merges into the Shabad. ਸਬਦ ਸੇਤੀ ਮਨੁ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਸਚੈ ਲਾਇਆ ਭਾਉ ॥ Sabaḏ seṯī man mili▫ā sacẖai lā▫i▫ā bẖā▫o. One whose mind is attuned to the Shabad, enshrines love for the True Lord. ਆਪੇ ਹੀਰਾ ਰਤਨੁ ਆਪੇ ਜਿਸ ਨੋ ਦੇਇ ਬੁਝਾਇ ॥ Āpe hīrā raṯan āpe jis no ḏe▫e bujẖā▫e. He Himself is the diamond, and He Himself is the jewel; one who is blessed, understands its value. ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸਬਦੁ ਰਤਨੁ ਹੈ ਹੀਰਾ ਜਿਤੁ ਜੜਾਉ ॥੨੫॥ Kahai Nānak sabaḏ raṯan hai hīrā jiṯ jaṛā▫o. ||25|| Says Nanak, the Shabad is a jewel, studded with diamonds. ||25||

This is incorrect. The main teaching of Sikhi is Naam, the rest of the religions on the other hand are totally devoid of true Gurmat naam, the only thing that can save you and give you peace. If all the other factors are present there in the other religions, but there is no naam, then as gurbani says those other things are all absoultley useless without naam. No religion can do anything for anyone, only becoming a Sikh of the true Guru, receiving naam and doing kamayee of this naam can we achieve ANYTHING (Vaheguroo,peace, salvation, mukti, freedom from births and deaths etc.) also read this excerpt from a book by Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji on supposed equality of other religions with Sikhi http://www.sikhism101.com/node/134 ਕਬੀਰ ਸਾਚਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਕਿਆ ਕਰੈ ਜਉ ਸਿਖਾ ਮਹਿ ਚੂਕ ॥ Kabīr sācẖā saṯgur ki▫ā karai ja▫o sikẖā mėh cẖūk. Kabeer, what can the True Guru do, when His Sikhs are at fault? ਅੰਧੇ ਏਕ ਨ ਲਾਗਈ ਜਿਉ ਬਾਂਸੁ ਬਜਾਈਐ ਫੂਕ ॥੧੫੮॥ Anḏẖe ek na lāg▫ī ji▫o bāʼns bajā▫ī▫ai fūk. ||158|| The blind do not take in any of His Teachings; it is as useless as blowing into bamboo. ||158|| What you say actually proves the perfection of Sikhi. You yourself are acknowledging that people NOT following the Guru is the source of all problems. There is no flaw in the Satguru or his teachings, the only flaw is our ego and our disobedience. You say that the followers of the other religion have 'peace', well what is peace? To the eye even atheists seem to have peace, because as they say, ignorance is bliss. The truth is, Gurbani states: ਬਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਨ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ ਕਰਿ ਡਿਠੇ ਬਿਸਥਾਰ ॥ Bin har nām na sukẖ ho▫e kar diṯẖe bisthār. Without the Name of the Lord, there is no peace. Having tried all sorts of ostentatious displays, I have come to see this. and ਟੋਹੇ ਟਾਹੇ ਬਹੁ ਭਵਨ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਸੁਖੁ ਨਾਹਿ ॥ टोहे टाहे बहु भवन बिनु नावै सुखु नाहि ॥ Tohe tāhe baho bẖavan bin nāvai sukẖ nāhi. I have searched and searched, across so many worlds, but without the Name, there is no peace. Gurbani, 100% fact, proclaims that there is no peace without naam, therefore it is 100% impossible that those without naam (and that is all those who have not become Sikhs of the Satguru) can be at peace. They cannot break free from maya without the Satnaam Gurmantar obtained from the Satguru and cannot escape from births and deaths either, how can they possibly be at peace? They are stuck in heaven and hell, births and deaths. Only those who take to the shelter of the True Guru can be free from all of these and thus obtain peace. I suggest you read the book 'Unditi duniya' by Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji, which covers this question about happiness for non-religious people. As for your comment about sharabis, well they are not Sikhs, true Sikhs are those who jap naam with every swaas, or at the very least wake at amritvela and do solid ishnaan, abhiyaas and nitnem, look at those who truly do this (and I mean cold ishnaan, 3 hour continuous naam abhiyaas) and see if you can find the same problems in that person. Have you obtained amrit and naamd drir from the Panj Pyare? If not, then do so and see the difference. You haven't found true Sikhs, as for not having found these problems in others, just search the news and you will find that Muslims are bombing and killing each other, so much for peace and unity. Look at christians, they are so divided in ideology that they have seperate churches for seperate beliefs. Look at it this way, we may have jathas, but no one who believes in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as the Satguru has broken off to form a seperate sect or religion, however you will find those who beleive in Jesus as the sole messiah have split into Catholic and Protestant (2 seperate religions) and the approximatelye 38000 denominations! Sikhi is the most united religion there is! We may have problems but we still all stuck together under one nishan sahib! So it may seem like we have alot of conflicts but thats because with Guru Ji's kirpa we never took the easy route and broke off but insisted we stay as brothers no matter what differences! Once again, I'd say forget even considering the kind of people you meet as being sikhs, and search out for the true naam rase hoye Gurmukhs, once you have met them, you will never look back. Take amrit, and take it where naam drir is given. You will see the truth, this is true sikhi, the rest is not. Sikhi of the Satguru is all you need, there is no peace in anything else, only in Naam, this is the ultimate truth given by Satguru Ji in bani. But to feel it fully you need amrit and naam drir. I have already posted the Gurbani in my earlier post which answers this question, what more is needed? Guru Nanak Dev Ji rejected that the 'namaz' as practiced by muslims as correct and stated the true way to practice it. On looking at the instruction given by Gurbani in those shabads, we find that the true 'namaz' is actually to follow Gursikhi. One could, when talking literally, try to say Guru Nanak Dev Ji also 'took part' in the hindu practices in hardiwar (http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Watering_the_Crops), but in reality it was to teach a lesson. Bhai Gurdas Ji di vara make it very clear Guru Nanak Dev Sahib Ji only went to mecca to preach Gurmat. Read it and see for yourself http://www.searchgurbani.com/bhai_gurdas_vaaran/vaar/1/pauri/32/line/1 Sarbatdapala, if you don't mind can you share roughly where you are from? I think what you need is true inspiration and to see the results of Sikhi in front of you, which can be found in sangat of true Gurmukhs. But also, do ardaas relaying all your feelings and questions to guru sahib and take a hukamnama, as Guru Sahib is the most important friend. And remember, when you get disheartened looking at so called sikhs, look to the perfect, unblemished, life of our Ten Guru Sahibs and see what real life is when following Gurmat. And read about sants and shaheeds. They are the proof to what Sikhi is. Also, this is what Mohammed Sahib and Jesus Sahib have to say about Sikhi: (from se kinehia, biography of Sant Baba Harnam Singh Ji Rampurkhere vale) JESUS CHRIST, MOHAMED SAHIB AND BHRIGU RISHI JI APPEAR IN A VISION One day Baba Ji was in deep meditation when Jesus Christ, Mohammed Sahib and Bhrigu Rishi Ji together, appeared before him. Their faces were radiant and had spiritually bright auras around their heads. After blessing Baba Ji with this vision Hazrat Mohammed Sahib Ji spoke, ‘‘You are blessed and truly fortunate to whom Guru Nanak Dev Ji has shown the direct and easy method to attain enlightenment of Almighty God especially in this age of kalyug. The followers of the Great Guru Nanak Dev are not deriving the full benefit of his teachings.” After this, Bhrigu Rishi Ji spoke, ”In our times, we had to undergo hard penance and rigorous spiritual austerities in order to achieve enlightenment. The whole life of a man was spent in meditation and making offerings to God and even then, union with God was hard to achieve. The true nectar of naam which great Guru Nanak Dev Ji has brought for his Sikhs is remarkable; even we could not obtain this boon of naam. No doubt we amassed great spiritual and miraculous powers through rigorous meditation and penance, including powers to curse or bless anyone, but we were still deprived of the nectar of naam.” Jesus Christ just said simply, ”It is my inner desire that my followers one day adopt the path shown by great Guru Nanak Dev Ji.” Saying these words, all three prophets disappeared. http://www.vidhia.com/Baba_Harnaam_Singh_Ji_-_Rampur_Khera/Se_Kinehiya_-_English.pdf

There is only one namaz allowed for Gursikhs! ਆਸਾ ॥ Āsā. Aasaa: ਹਮ ਮਸਕੀਨ ਖੁਦਾਈ ਬੰਦੇ ਤੁਮ ਰਾਜਸੁ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਵੈ ॥ Ham maskīn kẖuḏā▫ī banḏe ṯum rājas man bẖāvai. I am Your humble servant, Lord; Your Praises are pleasing to my mind. ਅਲਹ ਅਵਲਿ ਦੀਨ ਕੋ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਜੋਰੁ ਨਹੀ ਫੁਰਮਾਵੈ ॥੧॥ Alah aval ḏīn ko sāhib jor nahī furmāvai. ||1|| The Lord, the Primal Being, the Master of the poor, does not ordain that they should be oppressed. ||1|| ਕਾਜੀ ਬੋਲਿਆ ਬਨਿ ਨਹੀ ਆਵੈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Kājī boli▫ā ban nahī āvai. ||1|| rahā▫o. O Qazi, it is not right to speak before Him. ||1||Pause|| ਰੋਜਾ ਧਰੈ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਗੁਜਾਰੈ ਕਲਮਾ ਭਿਸਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥ Rojā ḏẖarai nivāj gujārai kalmā bẖisaṯ na ho▫ī. Keeping your fasts, reciting your prayers, and reading the Kalma, the Islamic creed, shall not take you to paradise. ਸਤਰਿ ਕਾਬਾ ਘਟ ਹੀ ਭੀਤਰਿ ਜੇ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਨੈ ਕੋਈ ॥੨॥ Saṯar kābā gẖat hī bẖīṯar je kar jānai ko▫ī. ||2|| The Temple of Mecca is hidden within your mind, if you only knew it. ||2|| ਨਿਵਾਜ ਸੋਈ ਜੋ ਨਿਆਉ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ਕਲਮਾ ਅਕਲਹਿ ਜਾਨੈ ॥ Nivāj so▫ī jo ni▫ā▫o bicẖārai kalmā aklahi jānai. That should be your prayer, to administer justice. Let your Kalma be the knowledge of the unknowable Lord. ਪਾਚਹੁ ਮੁਸਿ ਮੁਸਲਾ ਬਿਛਾਵੈ ਤਬ ਤਉ ਦੀਨੁ ਪਛਾਨੈ ॥੩॥ Pācẖahu mus muslā bicẖẖāvai ṯab ṯa▫o ḏīn pacẖẖānai. ||3|| Spread your prayer mat by conquering your five desires, and you shall recognize the true religion. ||3|| ਖਸਮੁ ਪਛਾਨਿ ਤਰਸ ਕਰਿ ਜੀਅ ਮਹਿ ਮਾਰਿ ਮਣੀ ਕਰਿ ਫੀਕੀ ॥ Kẖasam pacẖẖān ṯaras kar jī▫a mėh mār maṇī kar fīkī. Recognize Your Lord and Master, and fear Him within your heart; conquer your egotism, and make it worthless. ਆਪੁ ਜਨਾਇ ਅਵਰ ਕਉ ਜਾਨੈ ਤਬ ਹੋਇ ਭਿਸਤ ਸਰੀਕੀ ॥੪॥ Āp janā▫e avar ka▫o jānai ṯab ho▫e bẖisaṯ sarīkī. ||4|| As you see yourself, see others as well; only then will you become a partner in heaven. ||4|| ਮਾਟੀ ਏਕ ਭੇਖ ਧਰਿ ਨਾਨਾ ਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਪਛਾਨਾ ॥ Mātī ek bẖekẖ ḏẖar nānā ṯā mėh barahm pacẖẖānā. The clay is one, but it has taken many forms; I recognize the One Lord within them all. ਕਹੈ ਕਬੀਰਾ ਭਿਸਤ ਛੋਡਿ ਕਰਿ ਦੋਜਕ ਸਿਉ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਨਾ ॥੫॥੪॥੧੭॥ Kahai kabīrā bẖisaṯ cẖẖod kar ḏojak si▫o man mānā. ||5||4||17|| Says Kabeer, I have abandoned paradise, and reconciled my mind to hell. ||5||4||17|| -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ਸਲੋਕੁ ਮਃ ੧ ॥ Salok mėhlā 1. Shalok, First Mehl: ਮਿਹਰ ਮਸੀਤਿ ਸਿਦਕੁ ਮੁਸਲਾ ਹਕੁ ਹਲਾਲੁ ਕੁਰਾਣੁ ॥ Mihar masīṯ siḏak muslā hak halāl kurāṇ. Let mercy be your mosque, faith your prayer-mat, and honest living your Koran. ਸਰਮ ਸੁੰਨਤਿ ਸੀਲੁ ਰੋਜਾ ਹੋਹੁ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ॥ Saram sunaṯ sīl rojā hohu musalmāṇ. Make modesty your circumcision, and good conduct your fast. In this way, you shall be a true Muslim. ਕਰਣੀ ਕਾਬਾ ਸਚੁ ਪੀਰੁ ਕਲਮਾ ਕਰਮ ਨਿਵਾਜ ॥ Karṇī kābā sacẖ pīr kalmā karam nivāj. Let good conduct be your Kaabaa, Truth your spiritual guide, and the karma of good deeds your prayer and chant. ਤਸਬੀ ਸਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਵਸੀ ਨਾਨਕ ਰਖੈ ਲਾਜ ॥੧॥ Ŧasbī sā ṯis bẖāvsī Nānak rakẖai lāj. ||1|| Let your rosary be that which is pleasing to His Will. O Nanak, God shall preserve your honor. ||1|| Also, Sheik Farid Ji was not a muslim and his pavitar bani is not islamic philosophy but Gurmat dhur ki bani, Mian Mir Ji did not lay the foundation ston e (http://www.tapoban.org/forum/read.php?1,6465), mosque building was to show freedom of religion, like Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib Ji giving shaheedi, doesnt mean we take up practices of others just because we say others are free to do what they want. The greatest worship of Vaheguroo is to do jap of gurshabad, and this only can lead you to Vaheguroo. All the rest such as namaz is kachi bani and will keep you in tregun maya, janam maran and surag narak. As shown in above shabads, only following Guru Sahib's hukams is valid prayer (namaz). Interfaith marriage is not allowed in Sikhi. Although the bajjar kurehit is sex and such relationships outside of marriage, the santanits who reject this still state that sex and such relations with a muslim is bujjar kurehit. so big no no. my friend i hope u are not being trapped by muslims. Stay well away! I think you are forgetting our ancestors were being forced to choose between death or namaz, i think you know what they chose and for a reason! ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਬਿਨਾ ਹੋਰ ਕਚੀ ਹੈ ਬਾਣੀ ॥ Saṯgurū binā hor kacẖī hai baṇī. Without the True Guru, other songs are false. ਬਾਣੀ ਤ ਕਚੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਹੋਰ ਕਚੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥ Baṇī ṯa kacẖī saṯgurū bājẖahu hor kacẖī baṇī. The songs are false without the True Guru; all other songs are false. ਕਹਦੇ ਕਚੇ ਸੁਣਦੇ ਕਚੇ ਕਚੀ ਆਖਿ ਵਖਾਣੀ ॥ Kahḏe kacẖe suṇḏe kacẖe kacẖīʼn ākẖ vakẖāṇī. The speakers are false, and the listeners are false; those who speak and recite are false. ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਿਤ ਕਰਹਿ ਰਸਨਾ ਕਹਿਆ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਜਾਣੀ ॥ Har har niṯ karahi rasnā kahi▫ā kacẖẖū na jāṇī. They may continually chant, 'Har, Har' with their tongues, but they do not know what they are saying. ਚਿਤੁ ਜਿਨ ਕਾ ਹਿਰਿ ਲਇਆ ਮਾਇਆ ਬੋਲਨਿ ਪਏ ਰਵਾਣੀ ॥ Cẖiṯ jin kā hir la▫i▫ā mā▫i▫ā bolan pa▫e ravāṇī. Their consciousness is lured by Maya; they are just reciting mechanically. ਕਹੈ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਬਾਝਹੁ ਹੋਰ ਕਚੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥੨੪॥ Kahai Nānak saṯgurū bājẖahu hor kacẖī baṇī. ||24|| Says Nanak, without the True Guru, other songs are false. ||24||

so generally do most nanaksar gurdwara sahibs (specifically uk) do all night programmes or only evening divans? If so, what kind of schedule is there of naam simran, keertan, bani etc. What is a good schedule for the night if you are going to do it on your own? also does anyone know if karamsar gurdwara ilford follows this same maryada?

lol why is ur name namdhari?

I actually knew that it was going to be about this before i clicked on the thread, you can hardly call them sikhs.

If only Sikhs were where we are meant to be, we'd be the ones standing up for their rights.

Because I don't know him... I was just hoping that with all the resources out there on the net there may be a good article on the subject

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh I would really appreciate any help as its not for me but for parchar.. basically I seem to remember Prof Surinder Singh Ji talking about something to do with Gurmat Sangeet and perhaps Guru Arjan Dev Sahib Ji Maharaj musically contributing something which basically led to what we know as bhangra/punjabi music? Does anyone know anything about this? any articles, videos, info etc. Also, please can anyone share any sikhi/gurmat related facts that would be of interest to more non-religous punjabis who are interested in bhangra. eg, relating the dhol to sikhi, can anyone tell me about dasam bani which is linked with percussion,eg. isnt jaagardang naagardang meant to be like tabla bols or have i just made that up? please help for the SANGAT thanks bhull chuk maaf.