chatanga1

crazy crazy people. if this is how they treat their own, whatthey gonna do with us kaffirs?

becasue of the domino effect of one state going. also the indians didnt wanna lose face with pakistan as they unfairly blamed pak for the khalistan movement. Plus the strategic position of panjab the panjab granary the sikhs in the army also because they saw it as a chance to reduce the political and fighting power of the sikhs for years to come to weaken or if poss destroy akali dal. because they have always feared Sikhs with independent thinking. these are just some of the reasons.

this is a khaandani rawait in some indian cultures. women who are prostitutes raise a family and after retiring, one of the girls will carry on the tradition. I read about this, as it is quite normal in Orissa.

everything was contained up until 1984 or 1985 i cant remember the exact year, but the indian govt under the order of gandhi hanged maqbool butt ( from the JKLF) over seccessionist charges. his hanging started the militant movement. Then in the same year the thick indians rather than placate the Kashmiris, took away the special status that Kasmir was given in 1948. These included: A seperate Kashmir Flag Seperate cricket team for international matches Separate law-making body for Kashmir etc Firstly the JKLF were mainly in control of the movement, but as it grew the Pakistanis started to action their own loyalist groups as JKLF were not in favour of Kashmir going to Pakistan but becoming an independent state. Nowadays the JKLF is virtually non-existant in Pak Kashmir as they threw their leaders in jail because they wouldnt work for the pakistanis. The very few Kashmiris ive met hate the pakistan state.

india will only concede by force and so far there has been no sign of that happening. the Bjp had called for division of JK along the lines in mithar's post. the kashmiri muslims are very against this. the only way for kashmir to go to pak is by referenum, and although the UN did call for it, both countries now know it will never take place, as the pre-conditions for the referendum to take place was that Pak withdraw to the borders drwan in 1947. This they will never do either. this issue is a major drain on indian economy, but then again it was that stupid cow indira who started it all off in 1985.

and what is wrong with that ?

given the record of the crpf in panjab does anybody feel any sympathy for this force, as they are prob doing the same thing in Chhattisgarh?

nehru couldnt handle the dogra ruler, as both india and pakistan tried to woo him to their side. Remember the brits made no provision for Kashmir to retain a seperate identity, it was to go to either country. The King was able to hold out for a year but seeing the pak/afghan combine make sweeping gains over the north-west of Kashmir, was of the feeling that the whole country would be taken by them. Nehru made him sign accession to india before committing troops. But i agree with your other view about throwing out the muslims from indian kashmir wholesale to allow the kashmiri hindus and sikhs to settle there.

this is the problem. Cash. Rather than give them cash as rewards or incentive, they should be distributing this food or other goods which can be used to sustain poor families.

he was not a sikh, but a dogra with the name singh. during independence he was given the choice between india and pakistan by the brits, he went for a third option, that was total independence. The afghans with the support of the pak army invaded kashmir in 1948 and the King shit himself as they took terrority right upto what is now known as LOC - Line of control, and he called india for help, but nehru only would give help if the king signed Kashmir to India, and that is what he did. you know what is quite ironic? if the pak/afghan combine hadnt taken kashmir, they would have been totally independent now, cos they had like a 90% muslim majority in the whole of kashmir, and without the use of any force would have created another muslim state. i asked a friend (paki) about how he would feel if kashmir was divided to exclude the non-muslim majority of jammu and have the muslim valley as an independent country. he was dead against it. the whole of kashmir must be ours. I asked him why are you any different from the indians then who keep you with force? you are going to do the same thing with the hindus in jammu. No answer.

one poster i havent heard from for many moons is Matheen. Has he left? or is on vacation? I have asked some people, younger sikhs if they go on any forums. what i gathered after talking to them, SA unfortunately in the wider cyber sangat is percieved as a snatan-sikh site, so some especialy younger sikhs are reluctant to join. They all run to SS.

excellent point made neo ji. the indians havent forgotten what the moghals/turks did to them centuries ago either.

reading this the sakhi of the woman who held the reins of 6th Guru's horse and asked for the boon of a son comes to mind. There, Guru Ji said it is not is your karm to have son, and Bibi said "mahraj if it isnt written there write it here..." So can this Karam can be wiped clean by meeting Guru Ji, and asking for forgiveness/mercy?

i dont, but thats cos of my domestic setup. do it same time-ish every day. Never really considered suraj-dev actually.

yeah he goes to a gatka class run by the talented Sardara Singh. Sardara Singh also know other stuff but as this is something that he runs a business in, he wont teach it as sewa. Gatka I have always thought is very impractical as an art in this urban jungle we live in. I took my son there and told him it was the beginning point of "POWER RANGERS TRAINING" cos he loved that stuff. but i know there is only showmanstuff to be learnt in gatka, and i want him to learn something that at least he can use in difficult situations. Myself, i have like arthritic knees, and work as a postman so cannot really afford to get injured, and that is very easily done, so i just work on cardio and yoga. I think this handicap would hold me back in shastarvidya classes. I was thinking of taking him to shinkin for a couple of years and then maybe to shastarvidya classes. Shaheediyan has made a vey good point in some arts being very punch and kick intensive rather than more destructive or disabling techniques that aren't as movement intensive. Kinda like Mohammad Ali and Mike Tyson, although im sure that both styles have their advantages and disadvantages.

I have been thinking of taking my child (7) to Shinkin. I have seen some of their classes, and wanted to know what the brothers here feel about Shinkin. I would really like for him to learn shastarvidya, but i think he may be a bit young for some of those techniques. So i have been thinking about Shinkin more. Your thoughts please.

i cycle to work, and i always say a prayer on the way to ask God to save me from morons.

did islam feature is this ww3 according to Giani Thakur SIngh?

5 year old yellow belt rage. thats so good.

long term i think there will be more political unstability in this country, cos the gore are getting well pissed off, over the brits role in these wars. i think that certain attitudes towards us "pakis" and "turbanators" are not really gonna get too better. I can see more people drifting towards right-wing than centre/left. especially as the wars in iraq/afghan have resulted in large numbers of refugees here. sometimes im even too afraid to ride my bike through the park if there are gore there, and take the longer way home. the other things you mentioned, i dont know.

with pleasure my dear brother. the primary objective of any ruler is to rule justly, but the second is to ensure that the just rule continues after the crown has passed on, especially as in this case crown was going to a family member, and the King was solely responsible for it. Mah. Ranjit Singh did nothing to choose a worthy successor from amongst his 7 sons, and unfortunately the 1st son Sher Singh, who is described as an intoxicated oaf took the crown. He was not worthy of it but he took it any way and then disaffection grew within the Darbar and the army. Now think about it, the Sikhs made some amazing sacrifices for this Raaj, but the nurturing of the next generation King was ignored( same as now how gurdwara committees ignore nurturing the next generation of commitee members), whereas if Mah. Ranjit Singh has tested his sons and nurtured them in state policy, warfare, and administration, he could have seen who was most competent to wear his crown. Think of the ignominy and squalor of the descent of the Sikh raaj. Because of the huge army campaigns in and out of Panjab, the army budget was huge for the Lahore Darbar. The army knew it, and they after Mah Ranjit Singh's death, they started to hold various pretenders to the crown to ransom, and hugely inflated their salaries, making them a very powerful, very loose cannon in the Sikh rule. After the conquests/military campaigns of Lahore Darbar were over, the King should have set about in fostering loyalty to the crown, and to the successor of the crown. Dhian Singh in his time intercepted letters from Hari Singh Nalwa, who was surrounded by the afghans at the time, calling for reinforcements from Lahore. Mah Ranjit Singh found out about this, but allowed Dhian Singh to continue as Minister whereas he should have been executed. It is unbelievable that Dhian Singh caused the death of the best general of Lahore Darbar and the deaths of so many soldiers, as well as losing the advantage Nalwa had given them over the afghans, that he was allowed to continue in his ministerial post. With the successor of his Throne being tested, also Mah Ranjit Singh, should have spent less time drinking and liasing with his wives, and taken steps to concrete the Sikh panth in Panjab. With the end of the raj lakhs of sikhs reverted to their former religion, and discarded sikhi. Mah. Ranjit Singh should have patronized the Sikhs as a religion, in the same way the muslims did, and continue to do so. The reversion of many lakhs of sikhs is why our panth in panjab has never amounted to anything politically since.

what about in india or in dharma? who was the first to die for dharma? what do the holy sanskrit texts say? could rakhsas also technically be shaheeds? in which case it could be madhu and ketab?

who was the first shaheed mantioned in history from any nation/religion?

I dont think Baba Ji actually had any fauj of his own, but there were certainly disaffected soldiers and higher ranksfrom Lahore Darbar in his dera. This area was under the virtual control of the brits, and they would never have allowed any private armies to build unless they planned to use them for their own purposes. Im not sure the whole Sikh nation would pay the price for one section of Sikhs behaviour. Certainly the Lahore Darbar did suffer, and in turn the Sikh nation, but there were certain crucial objectives that were never fulfilled years before any of this happened, that played a large part in the downfall of our Quom.

from what i can remember of this episode i will narrate, and the wise can read and understand. sikhs disappointed with what was happening at Lahore Darbar after Mah. Ranjit Singh's death left to seek shelter with Baba Bir Singh. Amongst these was the Sandhawalias who had tried and failed to take control of the state. The Lahore troops had come to this place, not to fight but under the guidance of Baba Bir Singh to create a sandhi-nama, between the warring parties. The british reps were also there. Unfortunately one of the sandhanwalias opened fire on the Lahore Troops who, in return fired back rather extremely and resulted in the killing of Baba Ji and many Sikhs. The death of Baba Bir Singh had a profound effect on the Lahore Troops and they, along with the Lahore Darbar were very saddened with how things turned out given their initial objectives. Sometimes i wonder if this act of provocation was the hand of the brits, who disliked both parties involved, and had agents present. Also the sandhanwalias were in league with the brits, in the hope of taking Lahore Darbar for themselves, but what is most mystifying is that the Sandhanwalia Sardar actually returned to Lahore with the Lahore Troops.