chatanga1

shaheediyan, Bhai Mardana's kul left for pakistan in 1947. the ban on non-sikhs performing kirtan came into effect after that didnt it? or am i wrong , but im sure i read that Kirtanis came from pakistan to do kirtan once a year or summat until 1965. ish.

come on!!! the first acts ie removng mahants from guyrdwaras in the 1920 was a good start. and even in the 30s and 40s they did a lot of parchaar especailly to the lower castes. me agree wiv you that the removal of Sahib Sri Dasam Granth was a very bad move. but plz dont claim they were bad to start off wiv. your chatanga

and anotyher fact the bahadur probably duznt know aboutn is that, even in palestine b4 1967, jews were not allowed to worship at the first temple. Their most important shrine was forbidden to them. So much for his multi-religous state!

the spgc has become a bankrupt body in the 1980s. why are we discussing them , when this topic was on the udasis? like the udasis they started off with very honourable intention, but over the passage of time have deviated from the founders of their own movement. you are so prepared to call sppc fools but gloss over the activities of the Udasis, to preserve your sanatan viewpoints. sgpc landgrabbing was only to do with money. fink about it... how did jagiro become so rich? she didnt have apot to piss in before she was president. but her greed had no limits and sgpc was trying to get everything they could jus to make her richer.

bahadur you avioded the 2nd part of my post.

the udasi akhara in amritsar, right opposite darbar sahib, do not have Guru Granth Sahib they have all the other rubbish like idols and wot-not. How they gna preach about sikhi? and this ive seen wiv my eyes. vali, along with your dictionary words you seemed be spouting the kinda turds that people say when they have no answer. ie sgpc lapdog and what-not,just cos it duznt fit in wiv your view of what sikhi shud be. The singh sabha movement has and still has flaws but it was deffo a step in the right drection after the mess the udasi/mahants created. i hav sed many times b4, and will say now, the udasi that we see today by and large are NOT the udasis of Guru Nanak.

Zionists were able to impose their views after the orthodox leadership had been eliminated by the Nazis, quite often with Zionist collaboration. bahadur, can you back this this up with any evidence ? 3. When they obtained the UN mandate they invades several Arab towns and villages and eliminated the local Arab population i.e. Muslims and Christians.I know several Palestinian Christian families who described how the Zionists butchered whole localities, took pictures and flew over other Arab towns throwing leaflets showing the horror saying: Leave or the same will happen to you. were these zionists simply aping the actions of the arabs who did pretty much the same thing to them in the 1929 pogroms against the jews, years before all the jews from europe staring to return to palestine/israel, 20 years before the establishment of the zionist state?

valli : "Perhaps the SGPC's greatest crime is their ostracization and exclusion of Udasis, Nirmala, SevaPanthis from the mainstream, thus effectively taking away their platform by denigrating them as being non-Sikhs. " BS mate. The udasis, nirmalas dont call themselves sikhs because then their places of worship would be under control of sgpc. So they openly declare we are not sikhs. the sgpc have reconised they made an error in the 1920s in pushing the udasis to the side, but they acknowledged and corrected this in 1973, after about 50 or so years. Now since 73, 35 years have passed but the udasis and nirmala still do not call themselves sikhs. why? valli :also there are no Akaras outside of India and thus the majority of their preaching is limited to that place, though I did see an Udasi sadhu preaching at a Gurdwara in Coventry once. there is one ashram in bilston wolverhampton, and ive been to it a few times. the sewadars there are singhs, but they say they are not allowed to talk about khnade-ki-pahul or the 5 ks etc , when they do their duties in the ashram. the comittee wont allow them to talk about this kinda stuff. only what their udasi baba told them they can talk about. like how the udasi baba cut his own dick off so he wouldnt be affected by kaam. i dont beelive that the udasi we see or hear about nowadys are the udasis that Guru Nanak wanted. me thinks you mite not know what you talking about. khima.

one thing ive always felt about this issue is the parallel with the division of panjab, and the forced removal of the Sikhs from western panjab. ie the loss of Nankana Sahib etc which as we all know hapned in 47. a new islamic state comes into existence, pakistan a year later the muslim world loses a country and i think it was, correct me if im wrong in 67, when the islamic world lost control of jerusalem , which is the 3rd holiest place for Muslims. Whenever i have any discussion with pakistanis about the division of panjab and the forced removal of the sikhs, i ask them about thier thougts on jerusalem, and then they seem to understand about our loss. But never before the "jerusalem card " is played.

im quite aware of the british and thier activities wiv the sikhs. however the british were always there to exploit. not like the "indians" who pretend to be our friends/well-wishers etc and do the same thing our enemies do. So dont try and be a clever alec and post turds. i'll leave you wiv a qoute from malcolm x. " i have more respect for the KKK who hate negroes and are open about it, than the US who hate us as much but pretend to be our friends..."

Nihang Niddar Singh duz himself no favours by writing misleading stuff about other jathe. personally i believ that he a special talent, but he has dug a hole for himself. and its not the first hole either.

quote "jattboot"]Do you have another conspiricy theory you want to share with us, Tony? the conspiracy of the "Rape of the Sikh people by the Indian govt". i'd like to share that wiv evryone on this forum.

shaheediyan, are you saying that the raags we use are not divine? I have read in my books of raags that Raag Sri Raag originated from Bhagwaan Shiv Ji, and that some of the raagd are dev raags, ie used to be /still are played in Inder's court eg devgandhari(if i remmeber correctly) .

it seems to me that these have been deliberately scarred/scratched.

lol dynamic banda, didnt you know that Balbir's jatha returned fire and killed thier atacker? now the real question is who gave the buffalo the gun?

so is Gurbilas Patshahi 10 gurbani? MDS?

whywould this trouble Bhain Mani Singh to call Guru ji a Fakir? Bhai Ji Gurdas was never troubled to call Guru Nanak baba Ji.

fateh Singh Ji do you think there may be a possibility of the scribes writing these differences than Guru Ji himself?

you know, i thought exactly da same about this when i read it, that it may have been staged just to get more govt resources. etc security, cars , firearms...

quote justme : "I dumb and dont know much but..." It should be I'm dumb. qouting shaheediyan : "When a senior/respected member of a household departs (who used to hold his house in order and family together), the youngsters, holding onto varying memories of their father, and a mutual respect, eventually go there own way. Its the natural order of things. " should read go THEIR own way. quote MS : "To ask why there are Udasis, Nirmalas, Nihangs and Sevapanthis in the Sikh community is as foolish as to ask why a given society needs medics, maywers and cops. " should read LAWYERS .... other than that, very interesting and informative replies! Khima, chatanga

Bhai Fateh Singh ji, can you elaborate on the prophesy Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave about Satguru Ram Singh returning? Did 10th Guru also say that 12th Guru will disappear for about 130 years as well?

good point dtf. I want to share something wiv the sangat as well. I was listening to a tape of Sant Jarnail Singh, and he stated that he was asked why the jatha duznt just stick to santhiya, and he replied that the situation (regarding the nirankaris) required that parchaar of shabad guru was the main priority. dtf's post has reminded me of the words of Sant Jarnail Singh, and its is true. There are only so many hours in the day. we have to prioritise our actions, individually and as a community as well. Sant Ranjit Singh has done a lot of good parchaar, and i think also that being a young man he appealed more to younger people, than if someone who had a long white beard were to say exactly the same thing. Am i alone in this thinking?

i went, and it was a brilliant programme. Giani ranjit Singh's discourse on DG was superb.

its not just the politicians. a llot of people are trying to change gurmat so they can suit their own lifestyles, ie saying that keeping kes is not necessary ...

MKS knows who its for.