Mithar

The whole family seems to be converting. Maybe Jannet Jackson might be next. But it's a good thing though. Alteast they have found a spiritual path.

Check this debate out between a Sant Jee and Kala Afghanists. The Kala Afghanists obviously being the meat supporters.

That was a very good article by Amritpal Singh Jee.

Thanks for sharing this.

But those Mahpursh were celibate out of their OWN free will not because they had a special rule made specially for them alone and no one else. That is what i'm trying to discuss here. Why would Banda Bahadur alone have this rule imposed on him and no one else? He may have made some mistakes no doubt but marriage is certainly not one of them in Gurmat point of view or any other point of view for that matter.

I'll agree to disagree. I'm still not convinced Mahraj would make a special rule only for him. I mean, after Banda Singh, other Sikh Sardars who faced probably even a worse time were all married whether it be Navab Kapur Singh, Sultan ul Kaum Jassa Singh Ahluwalia or the various misl Sardars. Marriage didn't stop any of them from punishing the Malesh or even fighting for Azadi. Differences between him and a few of the top Singhs was only in my opinion because of the meat issue and battle tactics. After his death, writers began writing all sorts of other reason which quite honestly don't make a whole lot of sense. But his ultimate downfall happened as Banda Singh said it in his own words that he was being divinely punished because he was sent to punish the Malesh, but he had over done the punishment for which he had to pay with his life.

That's a good point. During the olden days, the Nirmale and Udasins were the keepers of knowledge.

Feel sorry for the Bakra. But I guess on a positive note, since it is jhatka'ed at one of the most pavitar places in the world, I hope it gets reincarnated as a human in a house of a GurSikh.

Besides Banda Bahadur, every male Sikh was a warrior. There were no civilian Khalsas back then, yet most of them married, in fact due to shortage of men, many had to even support two wives and have a great many number of children to support the next generation of Khalsas. Being a warrior does not prevent one from marrying women and having children. Take for example Sukha Singh and Mehtab Singh who killed Massarangarh were also married men, yet that didn't prevent them from killing Massarangarh. I personally know of people who are descendents of Mehtab Singh and that goes for countless other examples of Singhs who were full times warriors, got Shaheed yet were married with a woman and had children. No matter which angle you look at it from, the claim that Guru Gobind Singh jee could have made a special rule for Banda Singh Bahadur alone to be celibate doesn't make sense at all.

But for what reason would Guru Jee make a special rule only for Banda Singh Bahadur and himself live a Grahisti jeevan while also promoting a Grahisti jeevan for the rest of the Singhs. Bhai Daya Singh Jee didn't marry, not because Guru jee told him not to, but because he didn't marry out of his own free will. Same thing with Baba Deep Singh Jee. Then why would Banda Singh Bahadur have this special rule imposed on him alone and not anyone else which doesn't make sense on Gurmat point of view. Other stories also do not make much sense regarding the story of Banda Singh Bahadur. Namdharis made a very good point when they question the whole story of Guru Gobind Singh Jee doing Jhatka of Bakras that were at the Dera of Lachman Das. Since Lachman Das was a fanatical vegetarian, why would he keep Bakras at his Dera???? That's something to think about. Even though Suraj Prakash is one of my favourite books, but not everything in it can be said to be 100% accurate regarding the life of the Gurus.

Kamalroop Singh, I'm sure you are well aware of Monjot Singh(the American). If I’m not mistaken he is AKJ isn't he and it is because of him that you created your website? I've heard from people that he openly supports Dasam Granth being done Prakash of alongside SGGSJ. Now if he's AKJ, then why would he support such an act if AKJ does not support Dasam Granth? I'm aware that alot has been said about you on the internet. I don't know you personally, so I don't know if any of the things said about you are true or not. But if you feel people are spreading lies about you, the answer is not to reply using lies in return against other groups. Satyame Vijayte. Truth always triumphs brother. Let liars use lies, they will ultimately destroy their jeevans by doing so. If you are innocent of the lies being spread about you, then trust in the Guru, he will take care of the people spreading lies against you. But main thing is not to use lies as a weapon in return. You will just lower yourself by doing so. I'm glad to see you are doing a phd on Dasam Granth. When a scholarly person uses dishonesty to fight back, that will just destroy their credibility. Look what happened to Bahadur. He was a man with immense knowledge, yet his lies and half truth destroyed his credibility. No intelligent person takes him seriously. Don't go down that same path. You have a lot of potential for prachar, use it. Don't get sucked into these internet mud-slinging competitions as Bahadur did.

Bahadur, I don't really think you have read any of Bhai Randhir Singh's books. He condemns the Bhasours for rejecting Dasam Granth by actually quoting extensively from various Dasam Banis. As far I know, he has never rejected Charitro Pakhyan in any of his books. Even in India AKJ Sikhs are amongst the most militant types in favour of Dasam Granth. To claim they don’t support Dasam Granth is like saying Taksalis do not support Ragmala. Yes, AKJ do not believe in Ragmala, that is for sure, but they do believe in Dasam Granth, I'm sure of that.

Thanks

But why would Guru Gobind Singh jee tell Baba Banda Singh Bahadur to not marry? Didn't Guru Jee promote Grahisti Jeevan? In fact since Gurus themselves married, isn't it considered Gurmat as exemplified by the fact that the Gurus themselves married and had children? Perhaps we shouldn't take everything in Suraj Prakash as being 100% accurate. After all, it was written about 150 yrs AFTER those events took place. The simple rule is, anywhere in Janam Sakhis, Suraj Prakash where a Saakhi is not in line with Gurmat (according to Sikh canonical writings) should not be considered as being 100% accurate. Sikh cannonical writings are SGGSJ, Dasam Granth, Vara/Kabit of Bhai Gurdas, writings of Bhai Nand Lal and I am inclined to even include Sarbloh Granth in that list.

What's wrong with if a person wants to marry? Did Baba Binaud Singh jee also remain single all his life? If not, then why would he expect Baba Banda Singh to remain single for the rest of his life? As far as I know there has never been any taboo for marriage amongst the Sikhs. If fact, before the Singh Sabha movement even polygamy was considered normal amongst the Sikhs as it was part of Indian culture. I've always heard that the differences between Banda Singh Bahadur and Binod Singh were based on difference of battle tactics. Binod Singh wanted to carry out guerrilla warfare while Banda Singh Bahadur to carry out a conventional war. It's similar to how the differences arose between the Marathas and Jats right before the 3rd battle of Panipat. The Jats wanted to beat Ahmad Shah Abdali using guerrilla warfare while the Marathas wanted a conventional war with Abdali. This differences of opinion led the Jats to leave the Maratha camp and result was the Marathas lost to the Afghans due to lack of help from the Jats during the 3rd battle of Panipat. And weren't the Buddha Dal and Taruna Dal created by Navab Kapur Singh Jee? I'm not aware of any Budha Dal before that.

Once you send the pdf files, please post the links here bro.

What do you mean by "I you"? I am confused

Wah! this coming from the king of slander himself LOL Looks like the river Ganga has reversed its course.

I don't know him personally, but didn't this man get into a fight in India a few years ago with a Singh from Chandigarh who also has a very popular site?

Too many RSS members here. I must report it to the Akal Takht LOL

Valli Singh Jee, I have read many of Bhai Randhir Singh Jee's books, and although I am not AKJ Sikh but I certainly respect him for his love for rehet, gurbani, simran, kirtan. You write that he was a Bhasouria based on what source? I'm aware that he like many people of the Malwa region were part of the Bhasour movement BEFORE their anti-Gurmat views started, but like most people of Malwa he also left them when they started taking anti Gurmat stances on issues like opposing Bhagat Bani, Dasam Bani and promoting Padshed of Gurbani etc. To say that Bhai Randhir Singh was a life long Bhasouris is really either misleading or sheer ignorance. I might have beleived you if I myself had not read his Punjabi books where he himself condemns the Bhasours for their anti Gurmat stances. But as you pointed out AKJ and Namdharis do have many things in common. Both are known for kirtan, that’s how the Namdharis got their name of "kukay", and AKJ means Akhand Kirtani Jatha. Both have the same technique of doing Simran and both keep the Gurmantar Gupt (although everyone in the Panth knows what the Gurmantar is, so it’s not really so Gupt). Like the hardcore AKJers, the early Namdharis were also Bibekis, as Ganda Singh pointed out that a Namdharis will only eat from a Namdharis due to their sharing of rehet. Both Namdharis and AKJers are fanatical vegetarians. Both groups put emphasis on their respective Banas. Both AKJ and Namdharis put emphesis on having a simple casteless marriage. Plus both Baba Ram Singh Jee and Bhai Randhir Singh Jee were from Ludhiana. Both Baba Ram Singh Jee and Bhai Randhir Singh Jee were imprisoned by the British. Maybe Fateh Singh Jee can correct me if I made a mistake on any of these points about Namdharis. Although I'm not really sure but I've heard from a friend that the early Namdharis also held Sarbloh in importance as AKJ do, is that true Fateh Singh?

Although this type of Simran is very prevelent in AKJ now, but many hardcore AKJers like the Tapoban Jatha actually do not support this type of Simran since it is not in accordance to the technique tought during the AKJ Amrit Samagam and it is also against Kirtan Maryadha. I remember Singhs on the Tapoban forum writing not too long ago that when doing Simran, an AKJ Sikh should not swing his/her head from side to side as shown in that video since that is not in accordance to the technique tought by the Panj Pyaras. Although I don't have the link but I also remember reading that Simran should ideally be done Gupt instead of out in the open like the people doing in that video. So in conclusion I don't think that is AKJ simran as tought by AKJ Panj Pyaaras.

fatehsingh Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha's family beleived in Baba Ajaypal Jee as Guru?

The technique is the same. The only difference is that Sant Mahpursh do it quietly with Shaanti while AKJ do it loudly with Josh. But technique is the same. The only difference is the volume. It's sort of like how Naqshbandi Sufis preffer to do Zikr quietly while Qadiri Sufis like doing it loudly with Josh.

Most Sant Mahpursh also do Simran like this.