dalsingh101

Look, if someone was just a regular sullay without the whole world dominating bit, and this happened to his family or best friend - would you really be surprised if he turned around and joined Al Qaeda or the Taliban after? Would you really blame him?

Best bit was Barry trying to convince them of his master plan: "We go in, blow up a mosque, Muslim rise up, we take over!"

I would help but I 'lost' my copy ages ago. By lost here I mean someone 'borrowed' it from me but forget the bit where you bring it back.....

I saw it. It was hilarious! The bit when he punches himself in the face is classic.

Can I read it after sunset? lol

Addition: Sikhs need leading and guiding right now. Maybe this needs to be factored into any future strategy?

I think more graphics may help attract new comers. Especially the young. But I'm not sure where you'd get expertise in that area. Maybe have regular 'rolling' threads like sikhchic as well. They have these 'Talking stick' ones that can be quite informative. Thing is I view this site like 'The Independent' of British media, whilst others are more akin to 'The Sun'. By this I mean the distinction between the populist (and mass consumed) and the discerning (with a smaller readership). Even if people vehemently disagree here, I know they aren't going to bring the debate to infantile levels like I frequently see on other sites (no names mentioned). There is less of the schizo RSS bogeyman vibe here. This is a robust site, it's brave. It will discuss things others would be too nervous or even narrow minded to. KDS was right in saying that people are 'over knowledgeable' here. But that is not necessarily a bad thing. What you have here is the most intelligent and open of Sikh forums. It's not dumbed down. When you check the contents it is a true treasure trove of information. It's neutrality is it's biggest strength but probably also puts people who already have minds made up - off. We can talk about Bhai Vir Singh's editing without bans. We can talk about Hindu references in Sikh scripture without people going mental one way or the other. We can talk about politics and not pipe out the regular line. Anyway you probably have two choices now? Either continue with the legacy and cater for intelligent, cutting edge debate or, start to 'dumb down' a bit to allow for the 'youth' or new comers to get in. I would suggest 'compartmentalising' things more clearly and targeting various groups in this way. By this I mean having solid sections on literature, language, theology, art etc. that are cutting edge in these areas. I think the ground work has already been set for this. But it needs a face lift. In a world where mass consumption seems to be the ideal I feel I have to say that the forum is a breathe of fresh air. It certainly has helped me in untold ways to get closer to my faith by letting me explore it without being beaten with the dogmatic stick all the time. I think you need to try and figure out what kind of readership you want and make strategic moves to fine tune content to 'capture' them. Sorry for the random splurg!

After thought: Look in the end, we either love our jaat more than our faith, or love our faith more than our jaat. If you're being real, you can't deny we are swimming in problems in our homeland. The way the infamous Jat insularity has manifested itself in Panjabi Sikh institutes is unhealthy and causing many problems. I'm not saying that once upon a time Jats did not do sterling service in military terms for the Sikh cause, but like all man made things, they too are subject to entropy (here defined as the inevitable and steady deterioration of a system or society). Don't be like a Roman acting like all is dandy when Rome falls apart around him. It is time for change. It is time for progression. That much should be patently obvious to even the most dimwitted of Sikhs. The only question that remains (in my opinion) is how, on a very personal level, we chose to position ourselves in relation to this. Don't be another decaying part of a stagnant, corrupt cesspool. Help bring about positive progressive change to our people. Live the egalitarian principles. If you don't, how do you expect to be forgiven, in both the material and spiritual world?

No you're just (again) trying to side step the responsibility your own people have with the current state of Sikhdom. I don't care very much about very recently created 'institutes' that serve some minority communities that may well be corrupted. I would go as far as to say 'institutes' like the one in Delhi was probably propped up and supported by outsiders for the very purpose of weakening the hold of SGPC and to keep it from putting it's tentacles outside of Panjab for political reasons and to prevent certain fat farmers getting even more golak money. In effect this has just given us an alternative (new) form of corruption in these satellites communities to the one that emanates from Panjab. Thus those new 'institutes' were conceived in corruption. The difference is that the Punjab Jatt issue goes to the heart of (relatively) ancient institutes and has a knock on effect on all Sikhs. The institutes they infect are actually ones that our Gurus' instigated and were born in purity. I wouldn't even go as far as to say this is a nuanced difference. People not seeing it must either be 1) dumb ass or 2) purposefully ignoring it.

Plus why have they taken his pent off? Dirty bastards.

He must have had a strong stomach. Look at the size of her katchera...

I hear that but.... are certain brothers going to inevitably use this type of stuff to make themselves feel better at the expense of sullay, totally (and conveniently) ignoring the fact that we too murder our females (probably to a much higher extent) through aborting females babies. Plus are we really in any position to do that moral world policing shit? Even if we were, should we do it?

Thanks for the explanation. The film was funny. The guy that gets blown up with the sheep is the dumbest looking paki ever. "This is my IRA voice" "But you've got a beard Afzul!"

You lot are missing the point about the difference between what goes on in the very heartland of Sikhs, where one would presume their religious doctrine would hold sway and other satellite communities, where Sikhs form a minority amongst larger groups and are thus likely to be influence by them.

Who gives a shit. We need to be sorting out our own burgeoning problems.

For HSD's benefit: (correct me if if I've gone wrong anywhere Laal Singh veer). Addition: I'd like to add, whilst I agree that the events subsequent to the wasp invasion was a watershed moment in our descent, some aspects of our lack of decorum as a quom can't be blamed on that. Some of our backwardness stems from our own Panjabi culture itself. I'll give you an example. A few years ago a friend from the UK went to a cousins-brothers wedding in Panjab (who was also British born and raised). The father of the groom sadly passed away on the evening of the wedding in all the revelry from a heart attack. When they conducted the funeral, local women came out in force (he told me) wailing like demented banshees, in some strange demonstration of 'grief'. This was despite the fact that they had no connection to the deceased man or his family. We have to face that we aren't exactly a reserved people. Under the surface usually a lot of passion and unbridled emotion exist which come out in very undignified ways. Plus we are very uneducated overall. This is very different to the Japanese. (By the way the incident I related to you above wasn't in a backwater pind but in Ludhiana). -- -------------------------------------------- What happened to these types of brothers huh? They would have been the grandfathers (or possibly fathers) of the Sikhs who later fought the wasps.

'I not confused. I just took a picture and it definitely ain't my confused faced brother.' What the hell are 'rubber dingy rapids' anyway?

Maybe we should focus on the causal factors that has people adhering to it so much as well as the consequences of this to the panth? I know there is a fair few of you out there that strongly value your caste affiliations. Now is the time to speak up for yourselves and clear the air.

Question: Does this cause a conflict of interest amongst Sikhs? By this I mean with regard to possible shared Sikh interests with other non caste members and also with the aims of the caste group versus that of Sikhi?

Before any other place we need to look at the place which is our homeland and where we form a majority. It's a central hub. Sikhs have more chance of influence there than elsewhere.

Here we go HSD: You living in a majority Sikh area probably have more insight than me into this, so I'll let you kick it off.....

I'm really beginning to doubt people will or even can subjugate their perceived ethnic/caste (however the f%$k they justify it these days) 'identity' for a greater Sikh one. Seems like the micro identity is at least 'as important' if not 'more important' than the macro Sikh one for lots of people.

You can't ignore the fact that certain people have pretty much had an unchallenged monopoly over Sikh institutes and leadership in Panjab for a long time now (I'm talking post partition). They are Jatt Sikhs, and they like to mouth off as being thekadars of the panth. Well, we can all see where their 'thekedari' has brought us to now. These people want to make out like they are natural leaders and whatnot and then deny culpability when they screw things up - and that too monumentally. Sardars my arse. Absolutely no ability to critically reflect on themselves either. If they were only bringing about their own demise, no one would care a hoot, but no, they have drag everyone around them down too.

What if the internal obstacles are actually the majority?