dalsingh101

You should have some inkling that the picture painted of the diaspora in India is likely to be severely skewed, similarly, the image of India amongst many diasporans is also likely to be twisted.

What does PMKC stand for?

God knows what they are thinking? They don't seem very organised. I think India might be using this like a bogey man. If they are thinking like you are saying, it tells us everything we need to know......

I'm not remotely surprised it has errors. I think such works can be described as:

I used to think the same, but as said previously, they could lead to a situation where we are just handing the Gurdwaras to sociopaths. Plus from how I see it we're in a weird conundrum. People might call for certain Gurdwaras to rename themselves due to perceived caste affiliations. But failing to acknowledge how certain subgroups were pretty much forced into doing this is another part of that 'culture of silence' I spoke of earlier. As we (should!) know, this caste based discrimination has had effects ranging from people starting their own Gurdwaras, to people outright leaving for other ways of life, or starting their own new ones. Also, the big elephant in the room, of a certain prominent network of Gurdwaras directly having their genesis in the colonial period, and frankly an overt sycophantic position towards the colonisers including imbibing victorian, protestant perspectives (which are completely alien and at odds with Sikhi) , doesn't remotely get mentioned. I'd think there is likely to be serious infiltration there going back centuries.

Thing is, in my opinion, this thing operates exactly like white racism, where hordes of people actually deny it's existence, or maintain a culture of silence around it. That's why it is hard to fight.

You have to bear in mind, these lot did a proper job on the minds of many people on the subcontinent, some sadly seem deeply trapped in their inferiority complex and their inability to see things for what they are/were. That's why those postcolonial perspectives are so important.

I get your point but If you go by the existence of the 'Ramgarhia bunga' (I think it was called?) that used to be in Hazoor Sahib before it was demolished, which was a place built in M. Ranjit Singh's time to house the artisans they sent to Hazoor Sahib to build up the place, it appears as if the name's meaning broadened over time? https://www.sikhchic.com/article-detail.php?id=62&cat=2 https://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/23135-save-the-ramgharia-bunga-from-destruction/#comment-218604 PS - hp singh doesn't seem to know what he is talking about.

I don't think you have much of a clue about how nefarious and insidious these people are.

What gets on my nerves is how people are so ready to start compromising or conflating the dastaar with other issues. Like twats wearing union jacks, or the star spangled banner, or the indian tricolour as or in their dastaars (and now this 'rainbow' stuff). I mean make your points by all means, you don't have to take it there though.

I agree. I'm suspicious myself, by all accounts the brits were falling over themselves to leave the place.

You would have thought they would have learnt lessons from Saville..........

No, part of it is p155 take, part of it is very serious: I think that the agricultural focus back home and lack of diversity is a potential economic time bomb, I think the barn-dancing aspect of it has gone out of control. I think certain strains of 'culture' are effecting Sikh society majorly and not in a good way. The movies and songs coming out of Panjab, the birthplace of Sikhi says a lot...... I could go on, and I have! I thought I'd said enough about how I feel about these things that people wouldn't need to ask questions about that at least??

Some background: https://kora.kpu.ca/islandora/object/kora:575/datastream/PDF/view

Going to add this to the discussion. The idea that our ithihaas actually records and refers to multiple Amrit bestowing events is quite a powerful one, and could help us conceptualise the variations we see in extant accounts, instead of having them at odds with each other. I'm surprised no one has commented on this?

On one hand you can be dismissive of these people and think: "Well, f**k them." but on the other hand it is sad and tragic in that they still come from amongst our Sikh thing and it is such a waste of life. We know our thing states this birth is an opportunity to get closer to your creator through dharam. This just seem like sad waste of life to me. I wish these guys would use their 'bravery' and 'recklessness' for more positive purposes. Right now, it's like a cycle of apnay destroying apnay. Apparently there's loads of this going on in Canada, our enemies must be laughing their heads off. Plus, now other apany are getting embroilled into that lifestyle. I bet you he was a big fan of Moosewalla's artistic contributions.

Good on him, if he was screwing colonialists and taking their money too! Go on son!