fatehsingh

These gems don't release any CD's though. I am not aware of any recordings on the internet (thank god!). You'd have to go to Bhaini Sahib and hopefully if it is their cue that day to perform Asa Di Vaar or evening Kirtan, you'd certainly find out within a few minutes from their replacement of taans with tremendous parmaan tuks from both Granth Sahibs. I'm not naming anyone as most of them are young generation (20- early 30's).

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Whitegrass, what's the point in posting something you're not even sure or know about? There's enough misinformation around already. Shaheediyan, You're basically saying the same thing with more explanation. The taboo is not in the sense that it was a 'wrong doing', but because it didn't 'pay' much and was inferior to say being a lawyer. It's always a few gems that keep the arts alive. Even today, while many Raagis, without naming anyone, have gotten lazy and lagging in Naam Simran, hence the lack of Mastanas during Diwaans, there are still few good ones who pay no attention to monetary gains and with as much musical Gyaan as they have continue to learn more without any trace of boasting or hangkar in the art. It is only with the Satguru's Kirpa that the heritage has remained and continues to be passed on. In the Darbar of the Satguru at Bhaini Sahib, many kinds of classical music is performed. Only if you go and spend a significant amount of time will you be able to see it all. I completely agree that huge taans are annoying definitely when done by newbies, but if you ask the Hazoori Raagis, they will tell you they do so as a tribute and service to their Satguru, thanking him for sending them to the Classical Ustads and learning the art.

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They had let it go to pursue 'better' opportunities. Being a Raagi or to sing Shabads like the Marasis had become a taboo for many in the easily divisible Punjabi-Sikh community. This implication was all across the board regardless of Sampardaye. In the Namdhari Panth it was only with the Hukam of Satguru Partap Singh Ji to create awareness of Raag Vidya among the entire Sikh Panth, regardless of Sampardaye, that eventually preserved the knowledge in the Namdhari Panth. This Hukam was carried forward with even more zeal by Satguru Jagjit Singh Ji and so today we have a good amount of Raagis who have pretty good knowledge of Raag Vidya. There's always a problem of quality being lost in quantity and there's always room for improvement, but still, to a great extent things are much better than they were under the pro-british Punjab back in the 30's and 40's when there was exponential loss and no preservation/gain in the field.

No I'm talking about the Bhagat Prehlad and the Islamic Hazrat.

Yes those 2 comparisons are disturbing & messes up the whole article. A bit of indian drama added out of habit perhaps.

Gurind Nama (Not 'Gur Ind Nama') is not work of Bhai Nand Lal. It is a separate text, just like Sau Sakhi and the texts found at Wad-Teerath. While none of them were discovered or written by Namdharis, in fact the Wad-Teerath text was tampered with just days after discovery, they are believed to be originally linked with Guru Gobind Singh and due to their predictions of the 11th and 12th Gurus, they found their way into the Namdhari fold rather readily. Since those who had the knowledge of these texts or believed them became Namdharis, it is therefore in a text that is only significant among Namdharis. They are not, in current form, considered Gurbani and it is generally accepted to have been corrupted in parts over the years by those loyal to Maharajas.

Sorry, I meant 'corrective measure'. Was typing in haste.

MDS, What is the punishment for removal of kirpan? Wearing Kachera inside out = 25 Japji Sahibs, removing it = 50 Japji Sahib traditionally.

That is very interesting. Agree with everything, except taking Kirpan into bathroom part as it is a rather sacred kakaar compared to the others, bar the Kesh ofcourse. But perhaps, in the same way an Amritdhari MUST keep kesh covered while going #2 to protect the kesh from the bad environment, perhaps the Kirpan can also be wrapped up for those who don't want to separate from Kirpan while on toilet?

Check that question replacing 'Shaster' with 'Granth Sahibs'. What if in the same scenario of being attacked at night, you have a Granth Sahib in your room, like Hari Singh Nalwa did (he slept on the floor and gave Manji to the Granth Sahib ofcourse) that needs to be removed from the premises? Would you go do Ishnaan first? In such cases exceptions have to be made of course, with appropriate Ardas afterwards seeking forgiveness. You can keep the Kirpan nearby at sleep, without touching it during sleep, and still be able to defend yourself should the need arise. On the same token one can turn around and say what if one is attacked during performing #2, lol, you agreed that Kirpan should be removed at that time, so how would you answer those who say you'll be left exposed in such a situation and therefore Kirpan MUST be worn while on toilet? Good point about historical Takhat Shastars being more sacred because they belonged to the Guru and have been touched by Guru Gobind Singh.

Per Namdhari Maryada if someone falls asleep (even napping), one must do Ishnaan before handling Granth Sahibs or Gutkas. Shasters are the same way. A veteran sevadar at Hazur Sahib also confessed to Satguru Partap Singh Ji that he had his finger cut by a sword of Guru Gobind Singh when he got lazy and not do ishnan before handling it after a quick nap. These days, I don't know if this awareness is still there as the meaning of 'purification' has changed per some youtube videos.

I agree. Would be interesting to know where this notion that other than Kashera & Kesh, no kakaars can ever leave the body started from as it is now prevalent in certain groups. Do they not take off kirpan while doing #2 in the bathroom or sleeping as well? Isn't that beadbi of Shastar?

What the.... Who did.. Where did I say I wanna see Namdharis on t..... How the hell did you get to that conclu.... Did you do a PHD in assumptio.... PHD in fear-mongeri... I just wanted them detractors to get banne..... ah nevermind I'm just gonna go run off crying now

Tony, Stop protecting the detractors of the Panth! I'm not portraying the Namdharis as victims. In fact I said it's great they are banned and I hope that those who mingle with them or seek knowledge from them and Dhaar them as Vidya Guru all get banned as well. In fact everything Namdhari-related should be banned from the pristine SGPC Sikhi. Normal Sikhs should no longer use the title 'Sant' for a respected Sikh - a Namdhari invention which the AKJ has been trying to get people to stop for a while now as well - refer to their Amrit Kirtan Gutkas. Akhand Path Maryada should also be banned - a Namdhari invention and not found during times of the 10 Gurus as per Bhai Kahn Singh's Mahan Kosh. Printing of Granth Sahibs instead of hand-copying them should also be banned - a process first utilized by Namdharis via the printing press 'Aftabe Punjab' in Lahore. Giving Khande Da Amrit, especially to women should also be banned - a Namdhari invenion that was copied by the SGPC only in 1898 when the Hukamnama authorizing giving Amrit to women was passed - yes, those government puppets! Anand Karaj by reading Laavan should also be banned and let's go back to the old doing an Ardas and reading the Anand Sahib instead since using Laavan for Anand Karaj is a Namdhari invention according to Gianni Gian Singh. Who needs those pesky Namdharis. We'd all be much richer today if it wasn't for them holding us back with their anti-British nonsense! Seriously your ignorance, actually your PRIDE IN IGNORANCE, is something that is really not worth anyone's time.

Nah, too painful everytime I look at those pictures of the 'Soorme' and 'Cherdikalla' goodsikhs losing their mind temporarily and associating with Namdharis. It is all politics and winning votes. Around the early 2000's, Vedanti was pressured by his illiterate following who don't have the courage to read Namdhari books to blindly 'ban, ban, ban' the Namdharis especially the book 'Purakh Guru' written 30 years ago IN RESPONSE to Ganda Singh's anti-Namdhari parchar. So Vedanti, who himself is not a dumbo and does know a thing or two calls in his friend Hanspal to talk about the issue. Both politicians agreed there was nothing wrong with the book's message as it was only written as a 'response' but problem arose when Ganda Singh had no response himself and let the book fester long after his death with its audience being the countless Gurmukhi readers that are hiding in every household. So being the excellent politicians that they were, they kept the agreement strictly out of the press only indicating they had a 'productive meeting'. But ofcourse, once Hanspal was out of sight out of mind, who cares about them Namdharis, add them to the list just like we did when the British were in power and sign it! I'll go apologize for the mistake and promise an amendment for my next re-election when I go speak at the next Namdhari Shaheedi Mela in Amritsar!

I'm sure that will be banned very soon as well. Suraj Parkash, Panth Parkash, Pracheen Panth Parkash, Prem Sumarag (which mentions REPEATEDLY the UNHOLY and completely UNACCEPTABLE, not to mention Meena, Masands, M&Ms and Mohammadon-like thought of the Guru's RETURN), all contain 'anti panthic' and 'fanciful' Sakhis that will destroy the much beloved and unchallengeable by law version of Sikhism. Like I said, I really hope they will be honest enough to also ban those who learn Raag/Kirtan/Gurbani from Namdharis. Otherwise what's the point of banning white Bana and Gurmukhi Dastaar? Even non-Namdharis seem to be wearing them more and more these days; a disgusting fashion show act btw which needs to be stopped. The Namdhari's devilish contribution/parchaar won't be stopped unless these artists who associate themselves with 'anti-sikh' elements, and should go pesh, are also banned, unless they go pesh ofcourse. hissy hissy fitty fitty....

Who cares. Their loss. End of discussion. I really hope they would ban those who LEARN KIRTAN AND PATH OF ADI/DASAM GRANTH SAHIBS FROM NAMDHARIS also.

Chatanga, have you even read any of his work? Or merely narrating what you read in Ganda Singh's books? If it was a work of imagination then the only person to thank for would be Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha's family for keeping such meticulous records and providing Nidhan Singh Alam and Chakarvartiji with all the material to write all that 'missing history'. I doubt that you'd know this but Nidhan Singh Allam was himself a Singh Sabhia at first and received Gurmantar by order of Sant Kesar Singhji, the same one who blessed Teja Singhji of Barhu Sahib via his Gurdev. He was most definitely not Chakkarvarti ji's side kick.

He just declared them unauthentic. No specific reason given. Perhaps he knew who fabricated them? Your guess is as good as mine.

Or, did he even write or pen those in the first place? Bhai Kahn Singh in the Mahan Kosh doesn't seem to think so for one.

That's him all the way to the left. Don't know how to attach higher quality pix, sorry. Don't really have indepth info on him, but here are some factoids. He was a well known and level minded writer and researcher but at the same time he is known for not taking crap from people with bs hateful propaganda. He authored quite a few books and was chief editor of Satjug for a number of years and was involved in the political struggle as well. He got people from all different backgrounds, from politicians of Congress (Nehru, Rajinder Prasad etc) to communist leaders and from people of Aryasamaji to Nihangs and well respected personalities like Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha to contribute their writings for Satjug's special editions. The then controversial and powerful piece of article about Maharaja Ripudaman Singh of Patiala announcing that he was a Namdhari and being a Namdhari was not a crime or immoral, as the propaganda was at the time, was also retrieved by his efforts. At the Guru Nanak Sarab Sampardaye conference he was also a participating member and the chairman of the reception committee. For more info you may also submit your question to the Namdhari Yahoo! newsgroup.

Chakkarvartiji was quite a character in his time. He was essentially a writer/researcher with a very hot temper. During the time of Satguru Partap Singh Ji when there was a constant effort of publishing pro-British and Anti-Namdhari literature, Chakkarvartiji and Nidhan Singh Alam were actively involved in responding to those propaganda. What exactly do you want to know about him?

Even after writing, in English I believe, about what the significance of Hazur Sahib is, with regards to Bhai Rai Singh being sent to do Viakhia of Granth Sahibs and bringing back Maryada, when people continue to give me BS like 'Namdharis' beliefs hold no water and Namdharis should not believe in this or that', I don't think anyone is that handicapped to not be able to see through what is being done here. If knowledge is what you need, why does it matter if it is in PM? I've been around these forums enough to know that most people, unlike Amardeep's theory, have no real tolerance for or don't really care about learning when it comes to Namdharis. All they want to do is share what's been filled into them (usually baseless hatred) on a one-sided basis. So as such it is also in a way a litmus test. If that person wants to know, he can pm me.