Xylitol

It doesn't seem too different from a nagar kirtan float, albeit much more cramped.

Indian Union Minister Kamal Nath who participated in the killing of Sikhs in November 1984 wherein he led a mob that attacked and set on fire Gurudwara Rakabganj Sahib and burnt several Sikhs alive, has been invited to attend Indo-Canadian Business Council Meeting in Toronto, Canada on March 23, 2010. We urge you to individually write to your lawmakers at both Parliament and Provincial levels and request them to ban and boycott the entry of this grave violator of Human Rights and killer of Sikhs into Canada. We also urge you to write individually to the sponsors of the event to withdraw their support and sponsorship of Kamal Nath’s visit. Please find below samples for the letters. SAMPLE OF LETTER TO MEMBER PARLIAMENT: Dear Madam/Sir, I am a Candian of Sikh descent and I am writing to urge you to deny Kamal Nath entry into Canada, cancel his Visa and permanently exclude him from Canada as “inadmissible” for having participated in the killings of innocent Sikhs in November 1984 in which more than 3000 Sikhs were reported dead. Canada, its government, legislature and its people are very sensitive to the issue of human rights abuses and genocide. Canadian people’s sensitivity on the issue of human rights is reflected in the section 35 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act of 2001 which specifically makes individuals like Kamal Nath inadmissible for entering into Canada for their role in killings innocent of people. Evidence regarding involvement of Kamal Nath in the killings of Sikhs in November 1984 is overwhelming which includes testimony of a reputable journalist, Mukhtiar Singh and other employees of attacked Gurdawara who testified seeing Kamal Nath leading an armed mob that attacked and demolished a Gurudwara in Rakab Ganj, Delhi. In that particular incident alone, several Sikhs were burnt alive by the mob lead by Kamal Nath. To allow Kamal Nath to enter and visit Canada will therefore be a clear violation of section 35 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act of 2001. In addition to violation of Canadian law, Kamal Nath’s entry will also become a black spot on Canada’s otherwise impeccable record of commitment to human rights and will violate Canada’s stated position on “Crimes Against Humanity”. A killer like Kamal Nath has no place alongside Canadian Parliamentarians who have always carried the flag of human rights. I strongly demand that Kamal Nath should be banned from entering into Canada permanently. Truly, ----------------------------------- SAMPLE OF LETTER TO PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT Dear Madam/Sir, I am a Canadian of Sikh descent and one of many hundred thousand Sikh residents of Ontario. I am writing to ask you to boycott and ban Kamal Nath’s visit to Ontario during March 2010 due to his participation in the killings of innocent Sikhs in November 1984 in which more than 3000 Sikhs were reported dead. Sikhs in Ontario number several hundred thousand and are appalled and disturbed by the news that our provincial government is allowing a person like Kamal Nath into the province instead of siding with its residents. People of Canada, its government and legislature are very sensitive to the issue of human rights abuses and genocide which is aptly reflected in the section 35 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act of 2001 which specifically makes individuals like Kamal Nath inadmissible for entering into Canada for their role in killings innocent of people. In November 1984 Kamal Nath was seen inciting and leading the mob by a reputable journalist. In addition, Mukhtiar Singh and other employees of attacked Gurdawara Rakab Ganj in Delhi saw Kamal Nath leading an armed mob that attacked and demolished the Gurudwara. In that particular incident alone, several Sikhs were burnt alive by the mob lead by Kamal Nath. To allow Kamal Nath to enter and visit Ontario will not only violate Federal Law but will also shock the conscience of human rights loving people of Ontario and will tarnish the reputation of Ontario Provincial Government. A mass murderer like Kamal Nath has no place alongside reputable officials of Ontario Provincial Government. I strongly demand that your government refuse to entertain Kamal Nath and ban his entry into the province. Truly, --------------------------------------- SAMPLE OF LETTER TO SPONSOR Dear Madam/Sir, I am a Canadian of Sikh descent. Sikh community is widespread with roots all over Canada. I along with my family and friends have been a patron of your company’s products and services since long. I am shocked and appalled to learn that your company is sponsoring Kamal Nath, a known killer of Sikhs and human rights violator, during his March 2010 visit to Canada. Kamal Nath, MP and Union Minister of India have participated and organized in the killings of innocent Sikhs on the streets of Indian capital Delhi in November, 1984 in which more than 3000 were reported dead. Evidence regarding Kamal Nath’s involvement includes testimony of a reputable journalist, testimony of Mukhtiar Singh and other employees of attacked Gurdawara, who saw Kamal Nath leading an armed mob that attacked and demolished Gurudwara in Rakab Ganj, Delhi. In that particular incident alone, several Sikhs were burnt alive by the mob lead by Kamal Nath. Canada, its government, legislature, constitution and its people are very sensitive to the issue of human rights abuses and genocide. I as a valued customer your company and member of Sikh community of Canada demand that your company withdraw its support and sponsorship from Kamal Nath’s visit to Canada and honor the sentiments of Sikh community. Joined with me in this demand and sentiments are all members of my family and a vast network my friends. I along with all my friends will abandon and boycott your products and services if your company continued to support Kamal Nath. Sincerely, ------------------------- Contact Information of Sponsors: For Event Details: Jeffrey Goodman at (416) 214-9070 x22 jgoodman@canada-indiabusiness.ca SPONSORS: 1. Gold Sponsor : MACQUARIE http://www.macquarie.com/ca/en/contacts_directory.htm Macquarie Capital Funds Canada Ltd. Macquarie Capital Markets Canada Ltd. Macquarie Equipment Finance Ltd. Macquarie North America Ltd. Tel: +1 (416) 861 1315 Fax: +1 (416) 861 8484 Brookfield Place 181 Bay Street Suite 3100 Toronto, ON M5J 2T3 Canada Macquarie Private Wealth Blackmont Capital Corp. Blackmont Insurance Services Ltd. Tel: (416) 864-3600 Toll Free: (866) 775-7704 Fax: (416) 864-9024 Brookfield Place 181 Bay Street Suite 3200 Toronto, ON M5J 2T3 Canada Macquarie Financial Ltd. Macquarie Premium Funding Inc. Tel: +1 (416) 861 1315 Fax: +1 (416) 861 8484 Toll free: +1 877 462 3788 20 Toronto street, 10th floor Toronto, Ontario, M5C 2B8 Canada Macquarie Private Wealth Tel: (416) 874-8008 Fax: (416) 864-9888 Toll Free: (866) 775-7704 26 Wellington Street East, Suite 300 Toronto, ON M5E 1S2 Canada 2. Silver Sponsors: a) Bennett Jones http://www.bennettjones.com/contact.aspx Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Hugh L. MacKinnon E: mackinnonh@bennettjones.com Bennett Jones Toronto 3400 One First Canadian Place P.O. Box 130 Toronto Ontario M5X 1A4 Canada Tel 416.863.1200 Fax 416.863.1716 Bombardier http://www.bombardier.com/en/corporate/contacts/corporate/contacts Isabelle Rondeau Director, Communications 800 René-Lévesque Blvd. West Montréal, Québec Canada H3B 1Y8 Tel.: +1 514 861 9481 Fax: +1 514 861 2420 c) BMO Capital Markets https://www.bmocm.com/contact/default.aspx Toronto 100 King Street West 1 First Canadian Place Toronto, ON M5X 1H3 d) Emirates http://www.emirates.com/ca/English/help/offices/local_emirates_offices.aspx 90 Sheppard Avenue E. Suite 100 Toronto, Ontario, M2N 3A1 Telephone +1 800 777 3999

To sum up this thread: one side claimed that they had photographic proof that Dasam Granth birs were being misdated on purpose. However, only several photographs were provided, without any evidence that they came from the bir they were claimed to be from, and without evidence that they in fact came from the same bir. The claims were unable to be substantiated. Thread has gone off topic and there seem to be no new arguments.

exactly, to post several pics of various angs from a granth does not prove that all the pics are from the same granth. for all we know, there could have been a newer version of the granth from which the pics are taken, and you're saying they come from an older granth.

That's a really good point. The ones who are community oriented can lose their agnosticism with proper sangat as well. oth, The uncle toms just need to get out.

I thought they had it made so they could lick his backside more often

It's quite clear that you are very young. I've noticed that when (most) very young people debate, they take something that is hardly at the level of evidence and raise it up to the level of proof in their minds. How do we know which bir that picture of just one ang is from? How can we take you at your word for it? That's not good enough in this kind of debate.

lol, too true.

Almost the entire missionary movement falls within the definition of Agnostic or limited Theist (believeing in an extremely limited God). They interpret sikhi within the framework of current scientific knowledge and put limits on what God can or can't do. Their views of dharm are generally limited to the spere of psychology and ethical behaviour, no mysticism exists for them and they categorically deny that such things can ever occur. The hilarious (and sad) thing is that these people almost always lack any decent grasp of science and scientific method themselves!!

while there is no doubt jhatka has its place as a last resort for fauj in the need, I still don't get why jhatka is practiced continually today, when there is no actual need to eat meat. I've heard mention of warrior spirit, but truth be told there are plenty of meat eaters who'll run and plenty of vegetarians who'll fight. The warrior spirit then doesn't come from meat, but from Dasam Bani. I've heard it's to get used to the sight of blood or to practice cutting heads for jung. But blood will not make one in bir russ squeamish. Fighting a moving, skilled, and armoured target is very different to decapatating an immobile goat. Fight skills come from abhyaas (of bani and shastar vidya), not from chatka'ing goats. I find myself unsatisfied with the answers given so far.

Dalsingh's right. He claims to keep the identity b/c it helps him maintain a sense of connection to his heritage/community. He was also friends with Indira Ghandi. That being said, he did help set up the Citizen's Justice Committee after the 84 pogroms.

I agree with N30. Natives face incredible discrimination. Their entitlements stem from a binding treaty with the British in which the British agreed to provide numerous services IN PERPETUITY in exchange for land. Most but not all tribes were a party to this, and it is in fact contained within some of the most important founding documents in this country. The government continually shortchanges natives, but most Canadians seem unaware of where the benefits stem from and when they do find out they don't seem to care or have respect for it as a binding contract. Their other problem is that traditional modes of social living and governance don't seem to be working / have been broken through the now closed residential schools. So now you have chiefs who steal from their tribes and a loss of the spiritual grounding that provided much of their cohesion. Although I do believe many native tribes will comparitively thrive when the shit totally hits the fan in the future.

The jhatka article is fantastic, and rightly puts in their place all those wannabe nihangs who avidly promote meat consumption for civilian householders.

skin removed is more cool, with skin is garam. not sure just how much difference there is.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh ji! Khalsa faujo.... Singh Sahib Jathedar Baba Kulwant Singh ji, Jathedar Sri Hazoor Sahib , has requested Sikh sangat around the world to do as many paaths of Jaap Sahib and Chaupai Sahib as you can and count and submit your paaths by 12th April 2010 evening 20.00hours. There will be a Saanjhi ardas on 13th april,Vaisakhi day at 7.00am at Takhat Sri Hazoor Sahib which will be performed by Babaji himself at the feet of Sache Patshah Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj and Mata Sahib Kaur ji,to bless their Khalsa Panth with Charhdi kala, Unity and Love! This will be your contribution for Your Panth! Contact details for submitting Paaths will be provided shortly! Its time to show to the world power of Baani of Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj! Plz forward this message to your family and friends around the world! Invite as many Sikhs(singhs and singhaniya) to this group of yours, pass on this message! Start an unceasing Wave of Baani around the world, So that Partaap of Dasmesh baani is witnessed by whole world! Dhan Dhan Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. Dhan Dhan Dasam Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj! Akaaal ji Sahai Mahakaal ji sahai! Kamaljeet Singh Khalsa

I figured that you would do something like this. This pic is only one ang, you have given no proof of what bir this is from, or what other banis are written in that bir. It doesn't constitute any sort of proof. May I ask what grade you are in?

Still waiting for that evidence that poster promised to provide.

mod note: please keep discussions re dating in the appropriate thread. This post is meant to discuss propaganda activities of this collection of individuals

mod note: any discussion regarding dating is to be kept to this thread.

I wouldn't be surprised if the threat was mere propaganda to raise fears of a resurgance of Khalistani "extremism".

mod note: lets get back on topic guys.

Gupt Singh, since you are the one challenging the Panth's traditional position, the onus is on you to provide proof that these birs do not exist.

So are you saying you are going to influence them to stop reading Jaap Sahib, Svaye, and Chaupai sahib (3/5 nitnem banis)>??

If you treat other people as other, as separate, or as people different from yourself, you will not be inclined to be fair or merciful in your judgment of them. But if you treat other people as if they were just versions of yourself, you will understand their errors and appreciate their qualities. Are we not fortunate that this is the way Heaven regards earth. -Master Han Shan

We need to understand human nature, and just how quickly things can go bad when tshtf. People don't start behaving like animals just when their food and water is running out. Read the following articles for more info. I also recommend checking out the comments. ARticle 1 KINGSTON, NY, 4 MARCH 2010 — Among the Top Trends we had forecast for 2010 was “Neo-Survivalism.” With so many once-dependable “Systems” taking a battering and breaking down – and with the certainty that there will never be a return to “normal” – The Trends Research Institute foresaw the need for new types of survivalist thinking designed to cope with future emergencies. Our Winter 2010 Trends Journal® provided practical guidelines and escape strategies applicable to a gamut of crises from economic meltdowns to terrorist attacks. (See Top Trends: Breaking Point 2010. “Neo-Survivalism” Click http://www.trendsresearch.com/Subscriber/2010-Q1/2010-Q1-TrendsJournal-NeoSurvivalism.pdf) The 8.8 magnitude earthquake that struck Chile on February 27th put those theoretical guidelines and strategies to an acid test. Institute Director Gerald Celente and colleague Gary Abatelli, on the last leg of a South American fact-finding mission, arrived in Santiago, Chile on Thursday, February 25th. Shortly after 3 a.m. Saturday, though in a 14th floor room with all windows closed, they were awakened by the wild howling of the innumerable dogs that roam Santiago’s streets. In retrospect, it was a wake-up-call … a harbinger of the mega-quake that would strike minutes later. The 5-star Crown Plaza Hotel lurched and rocked. Within the room the TV toppled, lamps crashed, drawers shot out of their bureaus. Both close-combat black belts, Celente and Abatelli’s decades of physical and psychological training would serve them well. Aware of Chile’s long history of quakes, at the first tremor, Celente bolted from bed, put on his pants, slipped on his shoes, grabbed his jacket and ran for the stairwell. The two had just one thought in mind: get out of the hotel before it collapsed. Nothing else counted. Personal possessions (passports, wallets, money, watches) became instant non-essentials. When it comes to life and death, the only things to leave behind are everything. During 90 seconds of violent quakes, they put into practice years of “wobble board” training: the art of maintaining balance while continuing to move forward no matter what is being thrown at you. Flying down 14 stories of convulsing, pitching stairs, in just minutes (Celente reckons no more than three), they were first to reach the bottom. Astonishingly, except for the hysterical cries of Madre de Dios coming from an escapee from a few floors above them, the stairwell was totally empty! They would later learn, from interviews with hotel guests, that the majority froze in panic. Some called the front desk for instructions, others waited for tour guides to direct them, a few huddled under desks, found refuge in bathtubs, or sought shelter in doorways. Trend Institute lesson #1: We put our motto, “Think for yourself,” into action. Luckily, though seriously damaged, the hotel stood. Had it collapsed, those within it who were waiting to follow orders from tour guides or hotel personnel would have perished. When survival is at stake – physical, fiscal or psychological – the only leader to follow is yourself. Trend Institute lesson #2: Prepare for the worst. If the worst doesn’t happen, nothing is lost. But if the worst happens and no preparations have been made … everything is lost. The life-threatening element of the quake was past, but not the threat to life. In the few minutes it took Celente and Abatelli to make it downstairs, out into the street and back to the hotel lobby entrance, wolf-packs of screaming young men materialized, seemingly out of nowhere, even though it was 4 AM. Rampaging through the streets, they bowled over and mugged anyone unlucky enough to get in their path. Police were nowhere to be seen. Out of harm’s way for the moment, the next priority for Celente and Abatelli was finding a way out of Chile. The devastation was vast and the airport shut down. It was obvious that any sort of cleanup, to say nothing of repair and a restoration of services, would be slow to come. Phase two of the Neo Survival Guide, as outlined in the Trends Journal®, now came into play: “Communal spirit intelligently deployed is the core value of 'Neo-Survivalism.'” Abatelli’s laptop was working and an email was fired off to John Perkins, their http://attackproof.com/ close-combat mentor back in NY. Immediately, Perkins sent out an SOS to his worldwide list of martial arts practitioners. Within hours, advice was streaming in through a far-flung web of primary … then secondary and tertiary sources. There were names and phone numbers of high-level Embassy officials; personal contacts in Chile and Argentina ready to help with funds and lodging. Access to the AttackProof.com network assured them that they would not have to weather the crisis alone. Among the dozens of suggestions, one held the promise of immediate escape: hire a car and driver to take them to Mendoza, Argentina, a ten hour drive from Santiago. From there they could fly to Buenos Aires and in fact were actually able – despite other unforeseen complications – to catch their scheduled flight back to New York. Trendpost: The “Neo-Survivalism” principles carefully developed by The Trends Research Institute had been put into action and passed a crucial test. While the odds of being caught up in another major earthquake may be remote, analogous crises are not only possible, but probable in the near future. We foresaw “Neo Survivalism” as a Top Trend for 2010, because in these critical times a range of socioeconomic calamities and geopolitical upheavals will require individual and collective responses beyond any government’s ability to address. Terror attacks, economic meltdowns, crime waves, food shortages, infrastructure-disrupting cyber attacks, extended power outages and wars are all possibilities that the “on-trend” should be preparing for. Are you prepared? -http://geraldcelentechannel.blogspot.com/2010/03/celente-survives-chile-earthquake-neo.html Article 2 TALCAHUANO, Chile - One man swings a thick metal chain. Another grips an ax. An older gentleman favors a wooden pole. And a 20-year-old spoiling for a fight has prepared a garrote — a menacing wire tied between two handles — to confront any intruders. These and hundreds of other survivors of Chile's devastating earthquake have organized neighborhood watch groups, arming themselves and barricading streets to protect their damaged homes from looters. The groups have stepped in as police were overwhelmed by looting and soldiers were slow to restore order after an earthquake and tsunami. "We take care of ourselves here," said 51-year-old Maria Cortes. She stood watch in Poblacion Libertad — "Freedom Community" — a gritty collection of small duplexes along an industrial road in the port town of Talcahuano. About 2,000 people live here around a common area three football fields long. Efforts to prevent looters from entering neighborhoods after Chile's disaster include barricades like this one in Concepcion on Tuesday. Most of Talcahuano was destroyed by Saturday's magnitude-8.8 quake and tsunami, which ravaged a 435-mile stretch of Chile's Pacific coast. Downed bridges and damaged or debris-strewn highways made transit difficult if not impossible in many areas. The official death toll reached 799 on Wednesday. 'Human earthquake' a threat But Poblacion Libertad largely escaped damage. Here, residents talk about the "human earthquake" — a growing desperation of people without power, water, cooking gas and food. Many of its residents join the looting, taking food, drinks and anything else they can use from ruined stores — but return home fearful that others will do the same to them. A neighbor guards his block from looters in Lota, Chile, on Wednesday. Others say they're forced by need to leave their damaged homes for food and water, only to find what little they have left has been stolen. And so they have organized. The men got planks of wood from a nearby lumber yard and nailed them to block entryways to the clusters of homes. They erected a barrier along an access road. The crime watch runs 24 hours. "Each one organizes and protects his own entrance," said Cecilia San Hueza, 28. "We whistle to advise if there is anything suspicious." So far, Poblacion Libertad has had only false alarms. Someone blew a whistle in the middle of the night, prompting hundreds of residents to run into the common. Nearby soldiers enforcing a 6 p.m.-to-noon curfew fired shots in the air to make everyone go back inside. Elizabeth Ocampo, a 21-year-old resident of Poblacion Libertad, said firefighters arrived late this week to fight a blaze in the complex because they were busy combating looting and arson elsewhere. Five units burned to the ground. Looting elsewhere, too Throughout the quake zone, survivors live in fear and feed on rumors of roving mobs. Gunfire has punctuated the night in Concepcion, Lota and other towns. On Wednesday, Concepcion residents found nearly every block of their city occupied by rifle-toting soldiers. They enforced a curfew that expired at noon, questioned people at checkpoints every few blocks downtown — an area where the citizen crime patrols are prominent — and allowed firefighters to inspect and bar access to damaged buildings. Troops arrested 35 suspected looters overnight. Military helicopters carrying aid left Concepcion for outlying areas. But most businesses in the city remained closed, power was out almost everywhere, and residents lifted water from a river to flush toilets. Lt. Col. Juan Carlos Andrades, in charge of the logistical effort, said 100 tractor-trailers arrived overnight from Santiago with food and other supplies. Solders worked through the night packing flour, cooking oil, canned beans, tea and other supplies into plastic shopping bags for distribution. They tossed the bags from dump trucks winding their way through city streets. The eruption of banditry shocked the nation and put President Michelle Bachelet on the defensive. Chile's much-praised urban rescue teams were hampered by slow-to-arrive equipment — and the looting of their local base in Concepcion. Almost everywhere, citizens have banded together to eat, get water and protect damaged or destroyed homes while they wait for the military to restore order and deliver aid. 'They care nothing about us' In Hualpen, a poor community on the outskirts of Concepcion, Sonia Garrido and her neighbors felled trees across a street to protect their neighborhood. Volunteer guards sit around bonfires at night. Collectively, neighbors make bread and share it. Some draw brackish, smelly water from a lagoon and grumble about the lack of government aid. "We're bad off," said Garrido, 46. "No water, no electricity. They care nothing about us." Garrido's son armed himself with a garrote and joined a local crime watch whose other members wielded knives and pistols. But it didn't make Garrido feel much safer. She worries they'll kill someone. She also worries that criminals will get in anyway, simply by wearing twisted plastic bags that patrol members use as armbands to identify themselves. "I'm destroyed," Garrido said. "Last night I heard gunfire all around me. They're looting things and walking around with rifles doing anything they want. Nowhere is safe." Like her neighbors, she must make the stressful decision each day of briefly abandoning her home so she can fill a wheelbarrow with water from a system that in normal times irrigates a traffic circle. Under a state of emergency declared by Bachelet on Sunday, about 14,000 troops were sent into the quake zone. They can shoot to kill if necessary. The military says that hasn't happened. A homeowner shot and killed a young man entering his house in the town of Chiguayante, El Mercurio newspaper reported. In Concepcion, an unknown number of looters set fire to the El Polar department store Tuesday and were caught inside by the flames. Their bodies have yet to be recovered. http://ferfal.blogspot.com/2010/03/chilean-survivor-nowhere-is-safe.html ARticle 3 http://ferfal.blogspot.com/2010/03/i-had-to-shoot-people-do-you-understand.html