Narsingha

...looking back, perhaps it wasnt a good idea to make the term "ЙẩήĢ" public. (btw, its easy to bypass the profanity filters, just utilise a different character set...it creates havoc for the PhP code though)

Some 'Nishaan Sahibs' are known to be RED, some have chequers on them, some even have images of Hanumaan, Chandi, Raam, Surya, etc on them...and these are the ones that actually exist. ...colours...amazing concept!

With regards to female saints and Gurbani, there is a version of Adi Guru Durbar that is known as "Bhai Banno Wali Bir" that contains ballads by Mirabhai, the female Rajput Princess who is considered to be a saint.... This version of Adi Guru Durbar is considered equal to the copy of which is devoid of Mirabhai's ballads (well, within the Sanatan Sikh world it is....cant speak for the rest).

Just make sure you're honest, genuine and truthful with yourself with regards to the reason(s) why you wish to pursue such an action. Regret can be painful and can lead to self-denial...worse, it can aid destruction of conscience. btw, its not you who decides anything - its up to Guru Maharaj to bless you with Amrit. Amrit is one path of many; not the consequence of the inevitable.

Interesting explanations... However, the English "translation" itself appears to be devoid of the emotion and charm with which the story was originally told. btw, there are many more levels to the concept of 'Myth' - it stems from truth, and truth itself can be expressed in infinate forms.

Sad to see so many Sikhs today who are completely oblivious to Sikh oral tradition. Then again, quality, not quantity!

...www.udasi.org isnt the official Udasi website...thats coming soon :wink:

Yes...Black Magic. Personally I'd choose a box of Belgian chocolates

Dasam Guru Durbar was kept in the Akal Takht since Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh Sewa Panthi's time, and was only removed from there in 1941 by the SGPC. Dasam Guru Durbar was also present in the Amrit Sanchars conducted in the institution today known popularly as "Dam Dami Taksal" (during Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa's time).

.....does this mean that an arsonist is calm and spiritually enlightened? (thats the trouble with theories, there's always an exception)

An old Punjabi kids bedtime story.... There once was a bird, who got frozen in the snow due to a sudden downfall. Time passed, and one day, a horse came along and dropped its dung over the snow where the bird was frozen solid. The bird, seeing and smelling the dung began to curse the horse. However, the dung, being warm started to thaw out the snow. The bird began to stir and eventually regained its warmth and strength. It apologised to the horse and then thanked it. A few minutes later, an eagle who was watching the entire episode came down and swooped up the bird for its dinner. One of the many morals of the story - those who crap on you are sometimes helping you to become stronger (even though you may not realise this immediately), so never curse them or think bad of them. Another moral is that even in times of happiness and freedom, always stay alert, never take anything for granted, and keep your feet firmly on the ground (ie. ego).

Regarding the practicality, if the electricity vanishes, at least there's light for the reader to continue the prayers. Fumes from ghee lamps keeps mosquitos and flies away, and prevents insects such as scorpions from getting too close, and also keeps snakes at bay. Fire itself is the pinacle of cleansing forces, as such, it represents the ultimate purity in creation. Something to inspire one to attain internal purity. Psychologically, fire/candlelight is very calming to the soul, thats why almost every faith/spiritual tradition utilises this influence to aid meditation and focus.

Equality...strange notion... ...unless a man starts to menstruate and a woman starts to develop sperm, only then can they be considered "equal". (Discounting transgender individuals, androgens, and assuming that genetic manipulation has not been applied). Each gender has its own strengths and weaknesses. The idea is to synergise and potentiate the other's good qualities to ensure the end result (whatever it may be) is of top quality. This notion of 'equality' seems very strange when men and women are inherently DIFFERENT. They may be 'equal' in a socio-economic sense (but even this is only relative to time, place and circumstance) - but lets not kid ourselves. Every relationship by nature has/will have 'ups' and 'downs' - they are both important. Trouble is that most people who seem to get into 'relationships' (casual or otherwise) are emotionally immature, lack life experience and shouldnt be allowed to vote let alone exercise their genitalia. As a consequence, we see kids having kids... ..all this breeds insecurity, emotional underdevelopment and in extreme cases this results in abuse (physical, mental, emotional, and sometimes even spiritual). It seems an easy way to appear "cool" is for blokes to state that they think women are 'equal' and think that men and women have 'equal rights' in marriage. Its a great way to pull a girl, but its a load of tripe... (Women ar far superior - its just that in the vast majority of societies today, the male is 'dominant' as we still have a long way to go before we completely shed our inate 'caveman' genes).

What you learn at the Sanatan Sikh Shastar Vidiya Akharas is 'Savya Raksha' (self-defence). The 'Jung Di Vidiya' (full combat art) is taught only at Wolverhampton. With regard to your note, Nihang ideology is not taught at any of the self-defence Akharas, although history and traditions that are directly related to techniques are spoken of occasionally.

Onions... Yes, many groups do not eat any root vegetables. Some groups suggest that eating root vegetables increases lust, promotes 'tamoghun' and reduces 'satoghun' and aids the breakdown of bodily harmony.

Not my cup of chai..... I'm not a very sociable individual

For those who've been attending these camps (either regularly or 'one-offs'...3 questions: a) What have you "learnt" from attending such events? What percentage of what you have "learnt" do you apply in your daily life? c) How long does the "effect" Sikh camps last? Thanks in advance.

Very sad to hear of Baba Thakur Singh Ji's charrai. It is lucky that he passed on information about Baba Jarnail Singh Khalsa Bhindrawaley's delayed arrival onto Jasvir Singh. We now await for Baba Thakur Singh's words to become true - this should further the propel the termendous seva being carried out by the Sikhs affiliated with 'Dam Dami Taksal' and other Panthic Institutions. Being in the presence of Baba Thakur Singh, he always came across as a very humble and learned man. He belonged to a great generation that produced a wealth of charismatic individuals.

Nihang Niddar Singh does use the analogy as given to him by his Gurdev where out of 100 Sikhs learning Shastar Vidiya (in its pure "jung di Vidiya" format), approximately 1-5 will learn it, and perhaps 1 may turn out to be the next Gurdev. With regards to Nihang maryada, the Akali Nihang Singhs state that out of 100 Sikhs initiated into the Nihang maryada, approximately 5 will retain the knowledge, and practice it, and the rest will flow in and out of it, or loose it entirely. In essence, the 100 (ie, the majority) may be "considered" to be Nihang Singhs, but in reality only Akal Purakh is aware of who is truly a warrior Khalsa. Everything is spoken of within the correct context, and even learned Akali Nihang Singhs will be the first to admit these are "generalisations" with regards to Nihangs and their maryada, and not the exact truth - for Mahakaal may bless all 100 (in the case of this analogy) and they may all turn out to be mighty warriors.... Anyway, have a great xmas...

Niranjana, there are many in the UK who have taken it upon themselves to use the Nihang maryada as a backdoor to allow the weaknesses of their characters to take over. However, this cannot be said to be the "majority" as you have stated above. Perhaps the public itself is not fully aware of Nihang Maryada and therefore consider people to be "relaxed" with regards to their rehit. As an example, if one mentioned that an amritdhari Sikh could consume meat and Shaheedi Degh around 5 years ago, it would be a greater shock back then than it is today. This is because people are becoming AWARE of Nihang Maryada and are realising this is part of Nihang maryada (..assuming it is not abused). In the same way, there are MANY elements of Nihang maryada that are yet to be revealed to the public at large....indeed, some may remain "gupt" for a variety of reasons. What we have revealed with regards to Nihang maryada on the websites is a tiny glimpse compared to what there really is... As such, it would be wise not to give into ignorance and make such generalised statements about individuals.

Yes, I am working on it as we speak...

Well, as the old saying goes, $hit happens. Every faith has its "rogue elements" that do not wish to adhere to the "ideal" or accept the status quo...in the case of Sanatan Sikhs, this is especially so amongst the Nihang Singhs Dharam is universal and does go beyond Sanatan Sikhs - there is no disputing that, however, I was speaking in context to the topic at hand.

Within the Budha Dal, it is accepted that every Nihang does have a different take on things, but when it matters, and on more general aspects, they will come together in agreement. Akali Nihang Baba Santa Singh is fully aware of this, and in accordance with Gurbani, he is aware that everyone's perspective varies according to their 'Buddhi' (intellect/wisdom/experience/EQ) and their 'karams' and 'Guru Kirpa'. However, allegiance, honour and trustworthyness is expected from those in key strategic positions...regardless of whether they may agree with their superior or not. Even those Akali Nihang Singhs and Hazoori Sikhs who have issues with Nirmalas, but are genuine to their way of life, will not refuse to break bread with them and sit side by side to discuss Dharam. There may be minor disagreements, but these pale in comparison to the common ground. That is how Sanatan Sikhs function, they may be as varied in appearance, maryada, traditions, and perception as they come, but they know how to come together without any problems...thats the beauty of Dharam.

From the Hazoori Sikhs and Akali Nihangs I have come across during travels to Nanded/Punjab/UP some of them consider Nirmalas as traitors. These are some of the reasons given against certain Nirmala Sikhs (not all): a) they sold out to the British Raj (esp around the Patiala region), and subsequently took part in spreading "Angrez Sikhi" in its various guises they adopted certain Nihang traditions, altered/pacified them to suit the British Raj c) some Nirmala scholars it is claimed, attempted to "write Nihangs out of history" d) inherent cynicism amongst Akali Nihangs and Hazoori Sikhs towards non-Nihang "intellectuals" and "scholars" e) they are guilty of giving birth to today's passive and impotent form of Sikhism f) they encouraged and nurtured the "Sant" phenomenon amongst Sikhs to gain prominance above the Akali Nihang Singhs g) they began to slowly take the emphasis away from the 'ShastarDhari" Khalsa and encourage the 'Satoghuni' Khalsa h) they encouraged vegetarianism and tee-totaller ideology, and in some cases spoke out against traditions of 'chatka', 'sukha', 'chandi pooja', 'tilak' etc. Please note, these are just the OPINIONS of those individual Hazoori Sikhs and Akali Nihangs whom I managed to speak to with regards to Nirmalas. Also, before anyone starts to beat their chest and throw accusations of "nindiya", please remember, these arent MY views, nor the views of the Akali Nihang Baba Durbara Singh Sanatan Sikh Shastar Vidiya Akhara, or for that matter the Budha Dal. These certainly arent the views of ALL non-Nirmala Sanatan Sikhs, indeed, some hold great respect for all Nirmala Sikhs. ...as ever, everyone is entitled to air their opinion.

...its about balance...and the right position (..eerm...mentally, spiritually and of course physically)