HSD1

lol

KDS was asking why Sikhs stopped learning to fight and stopped teaching their children, akin to how the afghans spread their military knowledge. I really do believe that many Sikhs decided that war isnt useful. Not all Sikhs thought this way, but by then they were a minority.

Haven't read the book, but the bit about pressganging is surprising. So not all Punjabis were willing lambs to the slaughter like they are often made out to be. I wonder how the people on SikhSangat would feel knowing that the ancestors they are so proud of having served in the British Indian army may have been forced to do so?

Of course he does, he's just waiting for Harjap Bhangal to find him a good Jatt boy from the pindh.

As a diehard Khalistani I have to say the idea of a Sikhi inspired state fills me with dread.

It is so weird how Sikhs think all their problems will evaporate overnight with independence and that all we will have to worry about is solving world hunger or making the world Sikh lol. What about food security, law and order, defence, economic planning? So many Sikhs are in cloud cuckoo land that I'm glad there are so many level headed Punjabi nationalists in the movement to keep it in the real world.

If we do get our own state it will be a predominantly Punjabi state. That means only those of Punjabi ancestry or parentage/grandparentage will be allowed in. Maybe some others, but it wont be an open door policy. Anything else will lead to annihilation. As you can see by the present immigration level in East Punjab. Does that make us racist? No. Does that make us hypocrites? No. Does that go against our Gurus' teachings? No. Will foreign people/coconuts/lefties/sulleh lovers guilt trip us into getting their way and doing what they want? You bet your ass on it. If you want a multicultural SIkh state why dont you start somewhere else in the world? Punjabis have nowhere else to go and you fundos all say you will rule the whole world one day, so why not start in Southall or Arizona instead.

Which brings me onto another thing. If East Punjab was an independant country, what would it be like? Sikhs are so lost from reality that they think a good thing is a bad thing and vice versa. If any American/African/Asian/European country had the same levels of emigration as EP they would be considered failed states. Yet Sikhs act like leaving EP is great and that it furthers their own future - by laying bricks and shagging poor foreigners. Oh dear oh dear. You want to build a country out of wannabe builders and prostitutes? Go for it.

The irony is that if the Sikh religous and political institutions created an environment where Sikh family life was the norm, something to strive for and economically sustainable then these people wouldn't have had to leave. If they had got married and had 5 kids (with support from the government and community) within one generation our number would have increased to 50 million. If this had carried on for another generation we would have had a 100 million Punjabi Sikhs by 2048. Obviously some would have to emigrate but which country in their right mind would turn away hard working SIkhs?

But no. No we couldnt do it. We guilt tripped the people back home about our supposedly great lives here. They filled their own heads with bizarre fantasies about what their kids would achieve abroad. None of this was tempered by Sikh religous leaders. They sent their kids off and now an entire generation is lost to the construction sites and brothels of the rest of the world. Round of applause! Even the Africans in EP say as much to the Sikhs there lol. Who in their right mind lets people into their country to create 'colonies'? The word is so loaded, but as usual Sikhs decide to just imagine their own reality so devoid of reason it would be funny if it wasnt so damaging.

If you cant even save your own people how can you claim to save the world?

I cant even imagine day to day things being achievable in Khalistan with the number of religous nutters we have. Could you imagine being in something like a nuclear submarine full of Sikhs? Alarms going off, flooding, radioactive leaks and some of the the sailors would be like 'It is all his Hukam, dont worry Guruji will protect me from radiation and drowning!' whilst sitting on their hands and endagering everyone around them. Might sound a bit far fetched but there are enough Sikhs like this that we cant put them in certain situations.

Going back to social problems Khalistan would face, look at the treatment of women. Singhs are indifferent to female infanticide, grooming and women trafficking...... until they have to get married. Then when they cant find a girl for themselves it becomes a massive issue over Sikh women not liking men with beards and turbans. Trust me, women couldnt care less how you look as long as your clean/fit. But if you're ugly on the inside and a selfish idiot who is obsessed with nothing but quasi-holiness and self-gratification then no normal Sikh woman will want to build a future with you. And no amount of prostituting Sikhi abroad will bring in enough goriya for all of you lol.

Add to all this how Sikhs in EP now put statues of Buddha, Jesus, Koranic writings etc next to pictures of our Gurus in their homes. You even see picture of Jesus and Guru Gobind Singh in freshies' cars in the UK. Why? Because 'all paths lead to God'. Oh dear, oh dear, who let that happen? Might sound like a lovely sound bite when trying to ingratiate yourself with your hosts and idols but it's misinterpretation is ruining the very faith you proclaim to love and spread. Go home Khalsa, you're drunk.

If we were to have a Khalistan, it would be a real country in the real world. The question is would Sikhs and Punjabis be willing to work to make it a great place, or does the fantasy of a Sikh country provide some kind of a 'hit' for the addled minds of the average Sikh?

Wait and see. I get the feeling that a lot of Sikhs just want this issue to drop out of view so they can go back to bickering and bitching. SikhSangat has never been so quiet.

If Sikhs really want to wake up they need to set up SAS groups in the US and Commonwealth now. And not 'open to all, let me show off my ego' type groups Sikhs tend to set up but a group that can make real change. On the social media, Left Wing Whites were calling Mohan Singh a racist and liar, others along with sulleh were joking about volunteering to act as counsellors to Sikh girls. Sunny Hundal and his harem accused SAS of acting as vigilantes and questionned whether a religous Sikh man is the right image or even capable of helping these girls.These people dont even understand us and our lot act like we are all the same. That's not to say we arent all equal but some people have different biases. Just because there is a bit more awareness doesnt mean we can run off and make believe that everyone is on our side and that this issue is over. The only ones who can sort this issue out are our own.

Credit where credit is due, the American SIkhs that take in victims caught up in this are fantastic. Before anyone says we should listen to the Goreh and stop sending the girls abroad just because some 'specialist' says so, bare in mind that rich English businessmen have set up a similar network that allows white families who's children are in care or in danger of going there to leave the UK for other parts of Europe and protect their children from grooming and abuse in the care system. I cant over emphasise how important it is that North American Sikhs give us a hand with this issue and protect themselves from this happening to them.

The other thing is that Muslims will seem appealing to our youth as long as we carry on this fundamentalist drive in our religion. We've had ideas about telling religous stories to girls to stop them converting for decades now. That may help with stopping them turning into half-xtians. But how do any of these stories actually stop grooming? They dont. An unhappy or naive or neglected girl will always be a soft target. One of the commenters on SikhChic even said US Sikhs youth seem to be fascinated by muslims as they act how Sikhs want to be. If we stopped acting like dopey blase fundamentalists then maybe this wouldnt happen. There's a reason women-only cultural events are helping to stop girls feel like they are better off being abused by sulleh. Fundamentalist culture doesnt cut it - look at the Times article from last week, it was the simplistic one-dimensional dogmatic lifestyle that drove the girl into being groomed and left her in the paki's hands.

Well, look at this way. More Singhs on TV would just be for our own satisfaction. For some Sikhs it will just be a case of 'Oh look a Singh!'. Look at the shows that are on TV anyway. Sikhs on Coronation Street, The Only Way is Essex or Big Brother? It would be embaressing, especially as the Sikhs who gravitate towards TV are just clowns anyway as that's how they get by. Judging by the reaction to the Sikh grooming show on BBC1, a lot of people just dont get Sikhs and no amount of explaining will change their biases. Taking that into account it would be hard to find decent writers who can take Sikhs and put them into shows in non-ridiculous ways. Seeing as how some Singhs act really hedonistic in places like London it might not be the best PR. On the other hand if you could find handsome Singhs to put on TV, there's nothing to say the natives wont watch it and be like 'they are doing alright aint they?' with the problems that brings. I would like to see more SInghs in movies though.

The things I suggested can be done on a personal level. Sometimes we Sikhs got to think on our feet. Turning up the heat and cutting our way out is the only way these people understand. Also building ourselves up and cutting the sulleh out would change a lot. If I walk into a restaurant or takeaway and see sulleh serving I just turn round and walk back out. I gave my workmate grief for eating at fried chicken shops and now he's stopped. I only use taxis that I know the driver of. I would be happy if there were more Singhs driving cabs - some of these sulleh earn up to a grand a day in cash! It's no wonder their kids can rent decent cars, have fancy dinners, book swanky hotels etc to groom gullible girls. More exposure of what they get up to in local politics etc will eventually bare fruit. Let them ride the tiger, it will come to a stop one day, that shouldnt stop us from chasing after them.

Wait and see. I get the feeling that a lot of Sikhs just want this issue to drop out of view so they can go back to bickering and bitching. SikhSangat has never been so quiet.

If Sikhs really want to wake up they need to set up SAS groups in the US and Commonwealth now. And not 'open to all, let me show off my ego' type groups Sikhs tend to set up but a group that can make real change. On the social media, Left Wing Whites were calling Mohan Singh a racist and liar, others along with sulleh were joking about volunteering to act as counsellors to Sikh girls. Sunny Hundal and his harem accused SAS of acting as vigilantes and questionned whether a religous Sikh man is the right image or even capable of helping these girls.These people dont even understand us and our lot act like we are all the same. That's not to say we arent all equal but some people have different biases. Just because there is a bit more awareness doesnt mean we can run off and make believe that everyone is on our side and that this issue is over. The only ones who can sort this issue out are our own.

Credit where credit is due, the American SIkhs that take in victims caught up in this are fantastic. Before anyone says we should listen to the Goreh and stop sending the girls abroad just because some 'specialist' says so, bare in mind that rich English businessmen have set up a similar network that allows white families who's children are in care or in danger of going there to leave the UK for other parts of Europe and protect their children from grooming and abuse in the care system. I cant over emphasise how important it is that North American Sikhs give us a hand with this issue and protect themselves from this happening to them.

The other thing is that Muslims will seem appealing to our youth as long as we carry on this fundamentalist drive in our religion. We've had ideas about telling religous stories to girls to stop them converting for decades now. That may help with stopping them turning into half-xtians. But how do any of these stories actually stop grooming? They dont. An unhappy or naive or neglected girl will always be a soft target. One of the commenters on SikhChic even said US Sikhs youth seem to be fascinated by muslims as they act how Sikhs want to be. If we stopped acting like dopey blase fundamentalists then maybe this wouldnt happen. There's a reason women-only cultural events are helping to stop girls feel like they are better off being abused by sulleh. Fundamentalist culture doesnt cut it - look at the Times article from last week, it was the simplistic one-dimensional dogmatic lifestyle that drove the girl into being groomed and left her in the paki's hands.

are the musis now using moves from Street Fighter?!? cant they think of anything original........

my opinion is that this was quite amusing. it would be even more funnier if i knew we sikhs would stay out of it and bide our time. but we wont. we'll jump right in. some on the side of the goreh, others for the musis. and either way we're screwed. since the Khalsa's defeat in Gujerat, we sikhs have fought many battles for loads of different peoples. and each time, we end up worse off in the end than either of the 2 sides involved in the conflict. its a shame that other sikhs dont see this, and will end up fighting for others. both sides will try to court the panth and get some assurances of us helping them, or at least not fighting them. we should just say yes to both and then stay clear and let them do each other in.

No one's agreeing with breaking the law here.

But when the establishment starts crying tears over muslim girls going to Syria and offering rehabilitation and lenient prison sentences to muslim men (who have killed and raped for ISIS in Syria/Iraq before missing fast food and not liking American/Persian firepower and decided to come home) - I have to ask why things like these Sikhs have done are punished harder. Some of the above have longer sentences than the paedos!

I dont know how Gurdwaras in Leicester are run, but why do we always have to find the Panj Pyare? Surely they should lead and not hole themselves away from the Sikh masses?

I think a lot of people have forgotten details of this case. A Midland Sikh community told not to rock the boat even though the explosion of Mulism fundamentalists setting up shop in their town was leading to massive tension in the schools and streets. Kaljug SIngh and I both talked about how HUT types down south were leaving due not being able to afford to live here and wherever they ended up North would lead to a massive increase in grief for any Sikhs who live there. Luton and Leicester had some of the biggest house price falls in 2009 and large housing stock at the time of the benefit cuts. Look how horrendous the grooming situation is there now.

A girl who's family problems were exploited by devious men who made things worse. A social service and police force who reinforced the abuse and humilated the family and community. A last cry of help from the family desperate to stop their girl being sucked into a pernicious and barbaric alien community. The communities reaction to stop being used as human shield by the establishment to protect their core communities from the extremists.

The trial where the fewest who could be prosecuted where held to account. On the verge of a massive case and another example of Islamic Lawfare the girl pre-empted it all by living truthfully and not holding back. Accounts of her being driven into a Gurdwara car park and made to have sex along with exposing just how many outstanding pillars of the local muslim community where happy to pay to have sex with a 16 year old SIkh girl were enough to get the few on trial to admit their guilt before their whole community ended up on trial.

After all that it was somehow still our fault. Where as poor muslims and whites never seem to be blamed for their actions, we are blamed when someone else does it to us. If young muslim men cant be to blame for beheading civlians how on earth are these men guilty for what they did? Exactly how many more underage Sikh girls and boys must be sacrificed at the altar of 'community cohesion' before we say enough is enough?

To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.

Well depends on the issue. Gurudwara management? Yes. Grooming? No. I'm not sure why you think every issue should be caste based - either it is or it isnt. If it is and nobody else says it is , then you have to explain your point of view. You cant expect all of us to understand the way you see things are unless you explain it to us.


You could say the same about the muslim and xtian masses too. Still doesnt mean they have internal issues with how their religion is practiced or the 'holier than thou' types from religous organisations with chips on their shoulders like JW or the various Islamic versions.


I was on about Gursant Singh's issues with Punjabi and White Sikhs.


What exactly am I excusing? I made the point that if we cant live by a moral code we cant really expect non-Punjabis to either. It will just descend into fingerpointing.


Look at the Welsh and their history over the last 1500 years in relation to the English and you'll get what I mean. We're not the first this has happened to.

And read the Heart of Darkness to get some perspective about the dangers of our own using their background to abuse others.

http://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/sophia-9781408835456/

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/sophia-princess-suffragette-revolutionary-by-anita-anand-book-review-9965418.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/bookreviews/11310273/Sophia-Princess-Suffragette-Revolutionary-by-Anita-Anand-review.html

http://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/books/552338/Sophia-Princess-Suffragette-Revolutionary-book-review

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sophia-Suffragette-Revolutionary-Anita-Anand/dp/1408835452/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1423958889&sr=1-1

For a people who turned up in places, killed everyone, squatted on their land and lived like nothing happened, it doesnt take a genius to understand that they dont have any qualms about stealing and monetising things to suit themselves. Ironically when the Chinese do it, it becomes a major thing. It's not like we dont have people in our own lot who twist stuff to suit themselves:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=254360008036534


It's not even funny how many white girls are like this.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2386806/Orgasmic-meditation-Actress-Karen-Lorre-claims-11-orgasms-day.html

Not entirely surprising. Most news articles, tv shows and movies about Partition are like this. Even the part about using tanks against Sikh civilians isnt surprising. Supposedly Montbatten wanted the RAF to firebomb East Punjabi villages and towns where there were large Sikh populations. When he was told they couldnt do it, he wanted the Indian and British armies to force Sikhs onto trains and deport them to Central India, but luckily he didnt get his way on that either.

You've touched on a very good point there - why do sikhs stay stuck in attitudes that are well out of date? another example is how we as a nation cannot fathom the threat of organised hindu fanaticism. just because our ancestors only ever faced maharattas (which they beat the living daylights out of) when it came to large hindu nationalist forces, does not mean that over time the threat didnt grow. and then we end up with 1984 and being ghetto-ised in east punjab.

http://news.sky.com/story/1416946/rotherham-victim-says-abusers-untouchable

Post 39 on that link is hilarious: '...many women (male and female)...' !?

True story bro. What's so hard to believe? Judges in the UK let people off for all kinds of flimsy reasons. The UK justice system isnt some pure and sancrosanct thing that always gets it right.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2268395/Adil-Rashid-Paedophile-claimed-Muslim-upbringing-meant-didnt-know-illegal-sex-girl-13.html