Gupt Singh

this is a continuation from a previous discussion (this board or another i cant remember) where people were stressing that bhai chaupa singh was anti women.

heres a post from the ever informative balpreet singh from tapoban.org:

The Chaupa Singh rehitnama is interesting on different levels. Chaupa Singh was a Chhiber Brahmin and sometimes he seems to let a bit of a Brahmin bias enter into his work. At other times he is completely egalitarian and condemns caste in all forms. "Naa daekhai Khatree, naa daekhai Shood ki Vaish hai. Sikh Guru kaa daekhai, jaat barn naa daekhai" meaning "One should not look at whether someone is Khatri or Shudra or Vaish. One should look whether someone is a Sikh, one should not look at caste or clan." (77) All my references on this rehitnama come from the Padam book.

The Chaupa Singh rehitnama also contains a number of internal contradictions which indicate that it has been tampered with. One very clear case is the situaton of "saluting the sun". "Guru kaa Sikh praatay outh kay sooraj noo(n) namastay aakh kay, Sikhaa(n) noo Vahiguru Jee kee Fateh bulai" (91) meaning, when a Sikh rises in the morning, he should say "namastay" to the Sun and then Fateh to the Singhs. That's problematic on a number of fronts, seeing as how Sikhs don't revere the sun and the sun hasn't risen when a Sikh gets up (last part of night ie. amrit vela). But the rehitnama later contradicts itself: "Jo sooraj dayvtay noo namaskaar karay, so Tankhaiyaa" (105), meaning, "One who salutes/does namaskaar to the sun is a Tankhaiyaa".

And so I come to the issue of women in the Chaupa Singh rehitnama. This again is a very confused issue. I havn't seen the manuscript you quote which says not to give Paahul to women, but the common Chaupa Singh rehitnama says the following: "Jo Sikh, SikhNee noo(n) khanday dee paahul naa dayvay, so Tankhaiyaa" (105) meaning, "that Sikh who does not give khanday kee paahul to a female-Sikh, is a Tankhaiyaa".

Even in regards to reading Sree Guru Granth Sahib, your references are correct, but the same rehitnama then goes on to say, "Guru kee SikhNee Granth Sahib pothee paRn sikhay..." (107) meaning a female-Sikh should learn how to read Sree Guru Granth Sahib.

Overall, we can learn interesting things from rehitnamas, but we can't consider them to be the authority on rehit. Rehit has been passed down amongst Gursikhs and it's hard to find but it still exists. Only that rehit is authentic which can pass the test of GurbaaNee.

so, conclusion.............i dont think someone would so blatantly contradict themseves.....do u think that rehats have been changed over time? i heard the original bhai chaupa singh rehatnamas remain? etc

ironically this issue could be solved very easily if peeps like SGPC were a little more liberal...but i mean liberal with works such as hakayat and triya charitrer in the dasam granth.

triya charitrer (i think im spelling it wrong, the 404 stories of women) talks about most issues related to this kind of stuff but the sgpc say it is not gurus bani because it is too "obscene". people forget what the aim of this epic writing actually is - to educate people on how this kind of stuff is WRONG.....a growing problem in sikhism is teens having premarital sex....if they read triya charitrer they would see exactly WHY they shouldnt.

anyway, ill stop ranting lol. in triya charitrer i believe guruji classes homosexuality in the same catagory as incest etc, its unnatural and ethically wrong, but theres no quranic draconian laws like KILL THE GAYS or anything like that. anand karaj should definately NOT be for gay people, and they should learn to subdue their kaam, in my opinion.

ironically this issue could be solved very easily if peeps like SGPC were a little more liberal...but i mean liberal with works such as hakayat and triya charitrer in the dasam granth.

triya charitrer (i think im spelling it wrong, the 404 stories of women) talks about most issues related to this kind of stuff but the sgpc say it is not gurus bani because it is too "obscene". people forget what the aim of this epic writing actually is - to educate people on how this kind of stuff is WRONG.....a growing problem in sikhism is teens having premarital sex....if they read triya charitrer they would see exactly WHY they shouldnt.

anyway, ill stop ranting lol. in triya charitrer i believe guruji classes homosexuality in the same catagory as incest etc, its unnatural and ethically wrong, but theres no quranic draconian laws like KILL THE GAYS or anything like that. anand karaj should definately NOT be for gay people, and they should learn to subdue their kaam, in my opinion.

yep, the heretic bloke who even baba kartar singh bhindranwale and baba gurbachan singh bhindranwale (as well as baba jarnail singh etc) respected his utmost...................is baba ji(s) wrong in his opinion on bhai sahib?