Lucky

This is the lekha? yes, no? The records scribed by Chitr and Gupt? (just wanna be sure you understood what the lekha is, if not i can try explain more) Chitr records what has been said and done practically, whereas Gupt records thoughts. intentions and inner motives (the actions not seen physically by the world, hence the name "gupt") This is route to bhramgyan. First, the gyan starts coming automatically, ...in time, the seeker learns how to access this gyan by themselves using simran technique. The technique can be explained, but it's not understood or of any use unless the bani via naad has arrived from Waheguru.. Hope that makes a little sense. If still unsure, then i can explain further.

I've always thought that they are quite simply your "lekha" ..This is the the lekha you will leave with. It has the the account of how you used your saas as well as the pre-ordained you were born with. It becomes easier if you think of the lekha as a book/scribe for your life. We take birth with the open book that contains the pre-ordained, the astrological/universal alignments,..also the karams to bhog as per previous janams, ....the sociological whereabouts and status...etc.. ALSO the number of SAAS you will breathe for this lifetime. Visualize the beginning of the book with the pre-ordained, destiny, astrological readings etc..and then visualize all the pages following until the end; as the ones that will record your actions. The saas are all the empty pages in the rest of the book and the last page of ant-kal is your last saas. God's angels, Chitr and Gupt do the job of writing these pages. They record our outwardly and inner actions as well as thoughts, intentions etc. When you take your last saas then you take this lekha of records with you and it is reviewed in the court of God by Dharamraaj. This will be JUDGEMENT DAY! The punjabi taiva/janam patri are normally based on the day, time and location of birth. They contained your pre-ordained and possibilities in life providing you were to stay on the same vibration frequency. However, if you start filling lekha pages with saas of naam,(raised vibrations) then your pre-ordained and possibilities can also start changing.

Peterson is excellent. The interviewer is just addressing him from her own feminine ego. Whereas, he is coming straight from the middle, no masculine/feminine, no ego, ..just truth.

This too!

Well said singh!

Yes, I've come across this info before as well. Also that Jatts, Rajputs and Khatris have the same origins.

Gurbani can NEVER contradict. It's impossible! "Gurbani is the Truth" it is the word of God in Kar from the Ek himself. It is "Dhur ki bani" The Sat, the Truth and nothing else but the truth. You need to note that even in our general life, the TRUTH will never contradict with anything or even itself. In a court of law with prosecution and defense; the former will always be asking questions to the accused to form a theory. The prosecutor's aim is to find contradictions within the version(s) given by the accused. As soon as a contradiction is established, then he will have enough to present and show both judge and jury, that the accused's version is deviating from the Truth of the matter on account of the highlighted contradictions. A simple rule applied subconsciously by people when deciding judgments, is that... "contradictions in versions of events can only mean diversion and distortion of the Truth" Whenever i come across something in gurbani that seems to be a contradiction in my interpretation, then I know that it's my own failure that I perceive this. It's owing to the lack of understanding into the depths of Truth and the variance between two or more shabads that i haven't quite grasped. It could be one shabad that I'm just looking at the surface being compared to another that I could be seeing at a somewhat deeper level. The only way to deal with it is keep meditating on it and coming back to it. Waheguru shows you the answers when you are ready.

I would say they are two generations behind than UK. The other big difference is that the golak is no where near to what UK sangat donates. On average, I used to see about 80% sangat or more get up to do stage charavaahs back there. Over here,, I've hardly ever seen 40-50%. Reason why most popular pacharaks prefer doing UK, Malaysia, Singapore etc. BTW. I'm basing the above on Vancouver area. I've no idea if Toronto has different outcome.

Always confusion over whether you should use hot or cold for swelling. I know that many health professionals often give wrong or confusing advice. COLD-- should be used only when you have an immediate injury or sprain.. The reason is that cold leads to--> "vasoconstriction", this means a decreased in blood flow to the area due to constriction of blood vessels. So when you've had a sudden bump, fall, bang, or impact to a body area, then you want to prevent any further swelling by applying the bag of frozen peas as soon as. HEAT- When the swelling has already occurred or the bruising has maximized, then you want to get all the accumulation of fluid/blood moving away from the site. Thus, you want to use heat, because HEAT leads to --> "Vasodilation" . This is dilation of the blood vessels which helps getting the build up away from the site. Back in UK, our sports coach used to say first 48 hours for ice and then heat. Samurai's advice is recommended because this "contrast" therapy of using hot and then cold is very effective. Even going out of the sauna/steam room and straight into cold water bath is very popular in many heath clubs. You should be able to get pure pink Himalayan salts from a desi shop. They seem to have this brand called "sham" or something in blue/clear plastic packet.

Gurbani tells you to ''Naam Jap" therefore, Naam is the only fruit and you can only get it by japping. It's like reading a book with instructions on how to swim. You can read it day and night for as many years, but you can never actually have the ability to swim unless you get in the water.

That would be fantastic. He has been a super inspiration for motivating me many times.

it's all there, especially with catholic mystics. I did know of another catholic on a forum who had darshan by doing the continuous jaap of "Jesus prayer". The monks on Mount Athos in Greece jaap day and night and have many brahmgyanees among them. There was a insider video but it was cut and edited to leave out the very spiritual stuff. The soul in most faiths and in gurmat, is the heart area in the middle of the chest. Very beneficial to do heart meditation if one wants to see faster progress. Nearly all the mystics and sufis practiced this.

It's about them listening because they CAN hear it!

The suniyai lines follow on from the gaviah lines about who sings and does sift salah of akaal purakh.. These are the 1st "gavieh" lines and refer to sift salah on our world here. The suniyai is telling us about ALL that listen to the Primal shabad, the Ik-ong. . Refers to this the planet, the skies, the stars in fact the whole of consciousness hears this primal shabad. YES, it will be heard i space with sukham ears Later in japji, the gavieh lines come again, but are referring to all those "mannai" (chosen faithful ones), th=tand at sing outside the darbar of Akaal purakh. VERY IMPORTANT to understand this because the same lines are repeated exactly in so dar rag asa of rehiras for the evening. There is another important reason why the same so dar keha and gavai tudhn pangtees need to be recited in the evening.

This gets a little too confusing with different subdivisions. I need some help making some sort of "dummy's guide to mukhti" in gurbani, i note two different kinds of mukhti. One mukhti is from lakh chaurasi. This means that one goes to any of the attained baikhunt or devlok heavens. They are out of lakh chaurasi cycle but cannot necessarily move in between those heavens. There karam blueprint is still tied and they would have to take human janam to bhog those karams. However, they CAN do this by choice and won't have to go through lakh chaurasi. The other mukhti is what i always thought of as kaival mukhti. Here one goes completley back in reverse to nirankar. No identiry or ego remains and your chit(consciousness) completely dissiipates into Nirankar as he was when in primal smadhi before Ong-kar. Very great avataars of God, can go back in reverse in such a rapid manner that they can dissolve their full 5 elements back into consciousness of maya at will whilst on earth. This is how Guru Nanak ji, Guru Gobind Singh ji, Buddha, Jesus and probably more; ALL vanished with just leaving their cloaks behind. The physical bodies (5 tat) merged back into 5 tat of maya at instant and by will. They became nirankar immediately. Remembering that Nirankar is not sargun or nirgun either, but is what exists behind the consciousness(chit). I aim to get to grips with this topic because it gets too confusing for me with the other definitions. Somehow, i felt that the house of nanak taught us not to get wrapped up with heavens and in saroopya, sampiya muktees etc.. My impression was that we should just focus on direct Nirankar kaival mukti using nanak naam jahaz hai for immediate transformation. Correct me if i'm wrong or if i've had the wrong end of the stick all this time. But every time I try and start learning the mukhtis, my mind forces me to switch off and says just focus on absolute? This is why i suggested a dummy's guide may be a good idea for me to digest.

Good question. I've looked into this myself some time ago. Before I explain my understanding, I want to mention that the above brief description of "naam ras" is my grasp of the term as per gurbani. It's not something made up willy nilly. Some of it has been confirmed with more experienced gurmukhs for purposes of reassurance. This naam ras/naam amrit is different from the initial ras that abyasee experiences with saas saas. That first one is a "physical taste", akin to approval from Waheguru confirming that bhaghti will bear fruit if continued in gurmat. Most of my explanations like the one above, are from practice and learning directly from gurbani. Simran, abyaas, self inspect, introspect, check with gurbani, confirm with gurbani and develop further. This is the approach that I now use. Answering your question,...."Whats the difference atam ras and naam ras? " In short, Naam ras is a major development stage filled with many levels and stages within itself. There's explanations as per sukhsham sareer, physical sareer, yoga science, and more importantly; multiple nishanees of naam being pargat. One's physical perceptions will have changes, their subtle perceptions will have different changes, and on the other hand, more nadi channels will be opening and activating as the kundalini rises further. Things like heart lotus opening(Hirda charan kamal), seeing the unseen with the hidden eyes, seeing brahm everywhere and much much more. It's as if your multiple body layers start awakening within themselves. This stage of naam ras is ongoing in terms of development and rising and I don't know when or if it stops. Atam ras on the other hand is AFTER Naam ras. This is what i make from gurbani. At Naam ras, one experiences and learns from a lot of akath katha(unspoken inner speech), whereas with ATAM RAS, one will be recieving brahmgyan and will attain brahmgyan avastha. In gurbani, there are 3 main references for ATAM RAS that I've come across and I'm aware there are some in dasam granth and sarbloh granth. But I am sticking to gurbani for now because the sarbloh granth description goes on slight tangent or I just don't get it yet. In gurbani, 1st is on ang 252 ਆਤਮ ਰਸੁ ਜਿਹ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗ ਸਹਜੇ ਮਾਣੁ ॥ Āṯam ras jih jāni▫ā har rang sėhje māṇ. One who knows the taste of the Lord's sublime essence, intuitively enjoys the Lord's Love. ਨਾਨਕ ਧਨਿ ਧਨਿ ਧੰਨਿ ਜਨ ਆਏ ਤੇ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥੧॥ Nānak ḏẖan ḏẖan ḏẖan jan ā▫e ṯe parvāṇ. ||1|| O Nanak, blessed, blessed, blessed are the Lord's humble servants; how fortunate is their coming into the world! ||1|| This is the ultimate prem and feeling of pure faith and hukam in heart. We may have only felt a 5-10% fraction of it and I reckon the absolute and utmost 100% could be the pure love when Guru Tegh Bahdaur ji, walks to shaheedi after Gobind Rai suggests Akaal purakhs hukam. s In effect, at this stage, i would assume that atma is enshrined in the Paramatma and the gyan of brahm is known. "Tera kiya mithaah lagay" is at the absolute. If hukam tells premi to jump off mountain, then there would be no hesitation and just pure love of 2 become 1....atma & paramatma become ONE. 2nd is on ang1389 ਗਾਵਹਿ ਇੰਦ੍ਰਾਦਿ ਭਗਤ ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦਿਕ ਆਤਮ ਰਸੁ ਜਿਨਿ ਜਾਣਿਓ ॥ Gāvahi inḏrāḏ bẖagaṯ par▫hilāḏik āṯam ras jin jāṇi▫o. Indra and devotees like Prahlaad, who know the joy of the soul, sing of Him. Very important to note that they are still "singing" of him, still ਗਾਵਹਿ, gurbani doesn't say that "they sang" whilst here. It says that they are singing NOW at the darbar of Nirankar. 3rd and last is from brahmgyanee ashthpadees sukhmani sahib... ਆਤਮ ਰਸੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਚੀਨਾ ॥ Āṯam ras barahm gi▫ānī cẖīnā. The God-conscious being knows the nature of the soul. The brahmgyanees know the totality of the ocean (paramatma) and which droplet (atma) they are. This is my limited explanation of Atam ras because i have no experience of it. Naam ras, I understand a little more,,.. But of course it's still narrow and limited as I face the continuous battles of maya like all of us . I wont go into the sarbloh granth references of Atam ras. But it kind of implied that atam ras was prequisite for khalsa, wherea gurbani shows that atam ras->>brahmgyan. --->and brahmgyanee is above dharam(padaraths) and knows the the gyan of antarjami. Seeing as there is contradiction here, then I probably don't understand the depth somewhere, so can't comment further.

Naam ras is pretty distinct and there are lots of gurbani references with mentions of 'nishanees' that make naam ras distinct. For example, the akath katha is given to you when you drink the naam amrit ras. The sevak learns that the jamdoots will not be taking them away because of the stage they have reached..... there are many more in addition to these. Naam ras isn't quite a general term to describe 24hr anand state but a stage attained in bhagti when the seeker has practiced via gurmat. Nevertheless, there will be states of unexplained 24hr bairaag, prem and atam hukam as one consumes more and more naam ras. I can't comment on jog ras or whether they attain the same naam ras avastha, because only Akaal purakh would know their intentions and whether they were doing it for pleasure or enlightenment. Just to add, I am not disagreeing with your post above but just elaborating with a little more information that I have since learned.

atam chintan mangal- Nanak de kar hath.. From,..... ਡੰਡਉਤਿ ਬੰਦਨ ਅਨਿਕ ਬਾਰ ਸਰਬ ਕਲਾ ਸਮਰਥ ॥ Dand▫uṯ banḏan anik bār sarab kalā samrath. I bow down, and fall to the ground in humble adoration, countless times, to the All-powerful Lord, who possesses all powers. ਡੋਲਨ ਤੇ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇ ਕਰਿ ਹਥ ॥੧॥ Dolan ṯe rākẖo parabẖū Nānak ḏe kar hath. ||1|| Please protect me, and save me from wandering, God. Reach out and give Nanak Your Hand. ||1|| Nanak de kar hath is the same as "put your hand in my hand, and let me show you the way". This is giving your "hand" (hand is the working doer for ego). Give your atam and chit straight in to HIS hands, and he will take you where you need be. Similar to "Mann tan tera, thanh vi tera" (Mind and body is yours and so is all my wealth). It's not a question of contemplating in how to do this, but it's everything about the "mindset" and your "intentions" The "intentions" should not be for peace, joy, sukh shaanti etc.. But you just give yourself and baliharey mind and soul. Whether this ends up in your death(shahedi) or gains for dharam, it doesn't matter. Because his "bhaana is mithah"

Yes, there is some overlap with this and understanding Four Padaraths. Pal 07, actually made a reference in the other chaar padarath thread.

Topic needs further vichaar. ""BUMP"" Above descriptions are very good for Dharam, Aarth and Kaam. However, i would say that Moksh is the "release" from being the painter in the first instance. and the Goal that one has to set as final target.

2nd BUMP! This thread has some very valuable information in the posts

above is crucial. Bhagat Ravidas says ਬਹੁਤ ਜਨਮ ਬਿਛੁਰੇ ਥੇ ਮਾਧਉ ਇਹੁ ਜਨਮੁ ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਰੇ ਲੇਖੇ ॥ Bahuṯ janam bicẖẖure the māḏẖa▫o ih janam ṯumĥāre lekẖe. For so many incarnations, I have been separated from You, Lord; I dedicate this life to You. ਕਹਿ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਆਸ ਲਗਿ ਜੀਵਉ ਚਿਰ ਭਇਓ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਦੇਖੇ ॥੨॥੧॥ Kahi Raviḏās ās lag jīva▫o cẖir bẖa▫i▫o ḏarsan ḏekẖe. ||2||1|| Says Ravi Daas: placing my hopes in You, I live; it is so long since I have gazed upon the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan. ||2||1||

Beautiful explanation. ਕਬੀਰ ਜਾ ਦਿਨ ਹਉ ਮੂਆ ਪਾਛੈ ਭਇਆ ਅਨੰਦੁ ॥ Kabīr jā ḏin ha▫o mū▫ā pācẖẖai bẖa▫i▫ā anand. Kabeer, on the day when i die(my mind dies), afterwards there shall be bliss. then the slok continues with... ਮੋਹਿ ਮਿਲਿਓ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਆਪਨਾ ਸੰਗੀ ਭਜਹਿ ਗੋੁਬਿੰਦੁ ॥੬॥ Mohi mili▫o parabẖ āpnā sangī bẖajėh gobinḏ. ||6|| I shall meet with my Lord God. Those with me shall meditate and vibrate on the Lord of the Universe. ||6|| The highest form of anand. Comes with the highest form of awareness.

As you are reading on Sri Granth, you will come across the term "SHABAD" which in the English translation is still written as "Shabad". This "SHABAD" is the same as the ancient greek "Logos", it's also he same "Word" as per John 1.1, it's same as the "Tao". Referred to as "holy spirit" also. All religions speak of this very same shabad but in varying contexts. Even the famous artists of Renaissance have depicted the same "shabad" in the messages of imagery. At your current level of knowledge and understanding, I'd recommend that when you come across the terms "Shabad", you bear in mind the above and when you come across the term "NAAM" which is translated as "Name" or just as "Naam", then you apply it in the relationship as though it refers to someone who experiences "Shabad". It's much more than that, but you have to approach gurbani in stages to get a grip of it. You will come across different applications and contexts of these terms, and then you should just ask us. It would be too confusing if I started to describe them in one go.

excellent!. We are on the same page now. This is what i would have moved onto next. The understanding and differentiating is helpful to help us conquer ourselves and to "mann jithay jagjeet". With topics like the above, i find a lot of misguidance and confusion, hence the the reasons for addressing it. That map is very good and one of those that you need to refer back to.