Islam

[CL]

Hi People,

I am a new user. The majority of people here would probably kill me if they knew me. I consider myself a nice enough guy. I have many friends from all paths of life and respect all faiths. I have however been in love with a Sikh girl for the past 7years. I just want to talk a little to Sikhs. I am a strict Muslim. Strict in the sense that I pray 5 times and genuinely do believe the Quran is the path. This does not mean to say I have no respect for others. Far from it. However, I have to now make a choice. I see from many Sikh sites that Sikhs have a problem with 'converts'. I understand history has shown a side of a Islam most Muslims attempt to avoid. I am not one of them. Innocent lives are exactly that. No man should hurt another. Is it so bad if my girl did convert? If she felt what I feel through study and not force? What do most Sikhs have against Islam? In general? I mean, I have read some scriptures and in one it even says: 'If you're a Hindu, be a good Hindu. If you're a Muslim, be a good Muslim'. So if I was and I treated her and her family with the respect and honour I would in any other situation, would my girl still be 'hated'?

Please, no racist remarks. We don't know each other. If you hurl remarks, you will only do the opposite of what your Guru's have taught you.

Bless x

[shaheediyan]

When it comes to marriage, traditional Sikhs hold their parents consent and blessing above everything.

Is the same not true for Muslims?

If the girls parents do not agree (which I doubt they will) then are you pursuing an honourable path by permanently seperating a girl from her family?

May be you should look at how the Muslim nation as a whole treats and looks at Muslim girls who convert to another faith to understand why followers of other faiths may have a similar attitude.

[chatanga]

why if you have the attitude towards other faiths would you want her to convert? If she was happy in sikhi, which most likely she deosnt really know much about, would you want to say to her if you choose me you choose islam?

also what if you studied Gurbani thorugh study and not thru force?

I cant speak for all Sikhs , but myself i dont really have an issue with islam or muslims. The only time i get riled is when muslims ( or anyoen for that matter) deliberately distort sikhi to undermine it.

Why have you let this hang for 7 yeras as well? Thassa long time dude!!

[Xylitol]

" The majority of people here would probably kill me if they knew me."

A little dramatic don't you think? Nobody here would harm you.

[tonyhp32]

Far be it for me to teach a few facts to the 'strict' Muslim about his own religion.

A few questions for you-;

1. Do you believe that friendships can be formed with non-Muslims without an ulterior object of being afforded the chance of performing da'wa ( propagation of Islam). I can point you in the direction of a few sites run by Imams who I would venture to argue know a bit more about your religion than you do. They say friendships can only be undertaken with da'wa in mind. Did you have that in mind when you first approached this girl?

2. As Sikhs are not accepted as 'people of the book' like Jews and Christians, did you not realise at any relationship which was to lead to marriage would involve conversion on her part. Did you tell her this at the beginning or did you string her along?

3. Being a 'strict' Muslim did not seem to stop you from the Islamic injunction of not meeting females in private and not approaching females who are alone. Or is this injunction just meant for Muslim women and non-Muslim honour doesn't amount to much in your eyes. Either you're the hypocrite or Islam is?

4. How would you feel if a Sikh guy was carrying on with your sister clandestinely and without the knowledge of you or your family? Since you've done the same to a Sikh family I would assume that you would have no problem with that? Or are you just the usual Muslim hypocrite pretending to be a normal human being?

[Maha Kharag Singh]

you tell him tony!

[tonyhp32]

Something never rings true with all these Muslims who go around saying how in love they are with their non-Muslim girlfriends.

Just to paraphrase Chris Rock during his rant about black people and niggers "I ain't never been to jail"

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kpUSElgJcyI&...feature=related

"You're not supposed to have a girlfriend at all you dumb ass stupid admin cut.

Maybe I'm on to something, who thinks that Muslims are to normal people what niggers are to hardworking black people!

Before someone starts to have a heartattack about racism, watch the Chris Rock stand up for some context

[Xylitol]

if a Muslim and a former Sikh decide to marry, I don't personally have a problem with it. I understand that many people place personal love and relationships above the rules of their dharm.

Most Sikhs have nothing against Islam.

However, Sikhs are against conversions where emotional blackmail and trickery is involved. Many Muslim youth in UK try to meet Sikh girls while wearing karas to impersonate Sikhs. There are also more than a few accounts of girls converting and then getting left behind in an Afghan or Pakistani brothel after their 'husband' sells them.

I'm also wondering why so many moderate Muslims, if they truly have respect for other dharms, are doing so little to stop extremists from promoting this kind of behaviour.

[tonyhp32]

Xylitol,

This isn't just a Sikh problem but a worldwide problem. We know the media has tried to suppress the evidence that Pakistanis are luring young white girls into prostitution in some of the cities up north. A couple of these scumbags were jailed a few months ago.

Here is a report from Israel which should open a few eyes who doubt the mischief that Muslims seem to have inbred into them.

Yad B'Yad rescues Jewish girls

Jerusalem Post

by Sarah Katz

August 7, 2003

Imprisoned in the Arab home, subjected to six months of servitude and abuse by her captors, Dorit (names of the women have been changed) anxiously awaits rescue by a veiled woman accompanied by two Arab men. Disguised as a Muslim woman, Rachel Schwartz, founder and director of the Yad B'Yad (Hand in Hand) project, smuggles Dorit out of captivity and returns her home.

Yad B'Yad, which operates under the umbrella non-profit organization Am Echad United, attempts to provide a 'refuge for young Jewish girls manipulated by Arab men,' says the group's Web site.

The group focuses on 12-to-17-year-old girls who are in 'direct high-risk' - defined by the Labor and Social Affairs Ministry as homeless, having poor attendance in school, and living at the poverty level - making them 'prime targets for Arab men who know how to take advantage of them,' says the Web site.

According to the Ministry, 10% of Israel's 313,000 Jewish girls between the ages of 12-17 are in 'direct high-risk.' Of the 31,000, between 15,000 and 18,000 are involved in relationships with Arabs.

The organization claims that Arab men often deliberately lead the girls to believe they are Jewish, in order to lure them to Arab villages where many are treated as slaves and housekeepers or even murdered. Schwartz identifies the seduction of these girls as 'another form of terrorism at work.'

'This is a Jewish nation and these are Jewish souls. The fact that this is a non-Jew trying to steal a Jewish girl makes it a Jewish problem. It's easy to report a suicide bombing on a bus - that is tangible evidence. But these are silent terrorists,' explains Schwartz.

At age 11, Yael would buy groceries to bring back to her home in Gilo. She formed a friendship which blossomed into a romantic relationship after four years with an employee of the grocery. He identified himself as Yossi, a blonde observant Jew who 'spoke to me in excellent Hebrew about Shabbat and kiddush and seemed to know more about Jewish learning than I did,' Yael told The Jerusalem Post.

Four months into her pregnancy, at age 18, Yael discovered that her boyfriend was actually an Arab when she read his identification card. Yael spent the remainder of her pregnancy in an Arab village, in close proximity to her home in Gilo, where she was 'treated like a queen.'

During her pregnancy, said Yael, her boyfriend forced her to pray in a mosque, dressed in Arab clothing. 'He threatened, 'you must become Muslim for the baby - there can't be two religions.' '

Two days after she gave birth, Yossi moved Yael into a different home in the same village.

'I saw a woman and her three small children - Yossi's wife and family. They took my child and told me from then on I was to their slave. If I didn't cook using the right amount of salt, they would kick me, hit me, and burn my skin with cigarettes,' said Yael.

Yad B'Yad pays two Arab men $5,000 per victim to conduct surveillance and execute the rescue. Schwartz meets with each girl three to four times in a period of between two to three months before a rescue can be conducted.

Although in January 2003, the Israeli government imposed a ban upon anyone entering an Arab village, including police and soldiers, Schwartz continues to intercede and free girls who request help.

Under close supervision and threats of death and further physical abuse, Yael remained a prisoner in the house for 10 months. After three interrupted attempts to use the telephone, she was able to reach a friend who contacted Schwartz at Yad B'Yad. After three weeks, Schwartz arrived in her disguise at Yael's door, and told her to prepare to leave. Yael escaped with her daughter three days later.

Since the projects's commencement two years ago, Yad B'Yad has rescued 65 girls confined in Arab villages. However, the organization also addresses the prevention and education of girls before this problem can escalate.

Four girls between the ages of 15-and-a-half and 17 live together in a neighbor's home in Gilo. All from homes with divorced parents and extreme poverty, the girls gratefully accepted the attention and gifts of their new neighbor Rafi, who moved in almost four years ago. Rafi, 23, who claimed to be a Sephardi Jew, introduced them to smoking and drugs and presented the girls with stolen cellular phones, clothing, and shoes.

One-and-a-half years after meeting Rafi, one of the girls saw him in a bus station speaking Arabic. The teenagers continue their relationship with the man and his Arab friends out of what they believe to be necessity.

'The situation is very sad that I have to ask the Arab, our enemy, to feed me so that I don't starve,' says Dina, one of the girls.

Rochelle, her roommate, blames the government. 'This country should go to hell!' she exclaims. 'The government doesn't care if our refrigerator is empty, if we don't have a place to sleep at night. The state turned off our electricity because we couldn't pay the bill, so we steal it from a neighbor.'

The girls do fear that the Arabs might 'kidnap us to their villages,' yet feel that they must continue with the men who provide them with food and money. Yad B'Yad attempts to educate and provide these girls with resources in order to eliminate their dependence.

Ultimately, Yad B'Yad is 'looking to create a village of 50 houses with the aim to strengthen the girls' Jewish identity and minds and give them the skills to develop themselves. We have the goal to meet the needs of these girls, train them with a skill, and help them finish school,' says Yad B'Yad staff member Tehila David.

However, the expenses overwhelm the young organization. To maintain a group home for 18 girls would cost $200,000 per year. Recently, the Ministry of Welfare agreed to match any funds raised by Yad B'Yad. Schwartz travels throughout the United States and Israel in order to raise funding and awareness.

'The word must get out, first to the Anglo community. The American people must be aware that this is a very serious problem that must be addressed,' says Schwartz.

In the middle of her interview, Dina asked, 'I want to know if I am wasting my time sitting here and telling you my story or are you going to help us?'

[Mithr]

Xylitol,

This isn't just a Sikh problem but a worldwide problem. We know the media has tried to suppress the evidence that Pakistanis are luring young white girls into prostitution in some of the cities up north. A couple of these scumbags were jailed a few months ago.

Here is a report from Israel which should open a few eyes who doubt the mischief that Muslims seem to have inbred into them.

Yad B'Yad rescues Jewish girls

Jerusalem Post

by Sarah Katz

August 7, 2003

Imprisoned in the Arab home, subjected to six months of servitude and abuse by her captors, Dorit (names of the women have been changed) anxiously awaits rescue by a veiled woman accompanied by two Arab men. Disguised as a Muslim woman, Rachel Schwartz, founder and director of the Yad B'Yad (Hand in Hand) project, smuggles Dorit out of captivity and returns her home.

Yad B'Yad, which operates under the umbrella non-profit organization Am Echad United, attempts to provide a 'refuge for young Jewish girls manipulated by Arab men,' says the group's Web site.

The group focuses on 12-to-17-year-old girls who are in 'direct high-risk' - defined by the Labor and Social Affairs Ministry as homeless, having poor attendance in school, and living at the poverty level - making them 'prime targets for Arab men who know how to take advantage of them,' says the Web site.

According to the Ministry, 10% of Israel's 313,000 Jewish girls between the ages of 12-17 are in 'direct high-risk.' Of the 31,000, between 15,000 and 18,000 are involved in relationships with Arabs.

The organization claims that Arab men often deliberately lead the girls to believe they are Jewish, in order to lure them to Arab villages where many are treated as slaves and housekeepers or even murdered. Schwartz identifies the seduction of these girls as 'another form of terrorism at work.'

'This is a Jewish nation and these are Jewish souls. The fact that this is a non-Jew trying to steal a Jewish girl makes it a Jewish problem. It's easy to report a suicide bombing on a bus - that is tangible evidence. But these are silent terrorists,' explains Schwartz.

At age 11, Yael would buy groceries to bring back to her home in Gilo. She formed a friendship which blossomed into a romantic relationship after four years with an employee of the grocery. He identified himself as Yossi, a blonde observant Jew who 'spoke to me in excellent Hebrew about Shabbat and kiddush and seemed to know more about Jewish learning than I did,' Yael told The Jerusalem Post.

Four months into her pregnancy, at age 18, Yael discovered that her boyfriend was actually an Arab when she read his identification card. Yael spent the remainder of her pregnancy in an Arab village, in close proximity to her home in Gilo, where she was 'treated like a queen.'

During her pregnancy, said Yael, her boyfriend forced her to pray in a mosque, dressed in Arab clothing. 'He threatened, 'you must become Muslim for the baby - there can't be two religions.' '

Two days after she gave birth, Yossi moved Yael into a different home in the same village.

'I saw a woman and her three small children - Yossi's wife and family. They took my child and told me from then on I was to their slave. If I didn't cook using the right amount of salt, they would kick me, hit me, and burn my skin with cigarettes,' said Yael.

Yad B'Yad pays two Arab men $5,000 per victim to conduct surveillance and execute the rescue. Schwartz meets with each girl three to four times in a period of between two to three months before a rescue can be conducted.

Although in January 2003, the Israeli government imposed a ban upon anyone entering an Arab village, including police and soldiers, Schwartz continues to intercede and free girls who request help.

Under close supervision and threats of death and further physical abuse, Yael remained a prisoner in the house for 10 months. After three interrupted attempts to use the telephone, she was able to reach a friend who contacted Schwartz at Yad B'Yad. After three weeks, Schwartz arrived in her disguise at Yael's door, and told her to prepare to leave. Yael escaped with her daughter three days later.

Since the projects's commencement two years ago, Yad B'Yad has rescued 65 girls confined in Arab villages. However, the organization also addresses the prevention and education of girls before this problem can escalate.

Four girls between the ages of 15-and-a-half and 17 live together in a neighbor's home in Gilo. All from homes with divorced parents and extreme poverty, the girls gratefully accepted the attention and gifts of their new neighbor Rafi, who moved in almost four years ago. Rafi, 23, who claimed to be a Sephardi Jew, introduced them to smoking and drugs and presented the girls with stolen cellular phones, clothing, and shoes.

One-and-a-half years after meeting Rafi, one of the girls saw him in a bus station speaking Arabic. The teenagers continue their relationship with the man and his Arab friends out of what they believe to be necessity.

'The situation is very sad that I have to ask the Arab, our enemy, to feed me so that I don't starve,' says Dina, one of the girls.

Rochelle, her roommate, blames the government. 'This country should go to hell!' she exclaims. 'The government doesn't care if our refrigerator is empty, if we don't have a place to sleep at night. The state turned off our electricity because we couldn't pay the bill, so we steal it from a neighbor.'

The girls do fear that the Arabs might 'kidnap us to their villages,' yet feel that they must continue with the men who provide them with food and money. Yad B'Yad attempts to educate and provide these girls with resources in order to eliminate their dependence.

Ultimately, Yad B'Yad is 'looking to create a village of 50 houses with the aim to strengthen the girls' Jewish identity and minds and give them the skills to develop themselves. We have the goal to meet the needs of these girls, train them with a skill, and help them finish school,' says Yad B'Yad staff member Tehila David.

However, the expenses overwhelm the young organization. To maintain a group home for 18 girls would cost $200,000 per year. Recently, the Ministry of Welfare agreed to match any funds raised by Yad B'Yad. Schwartz travels throughout the United States and Israel in order to raise funding and awareness.

'The word must get out, first to the Anglo community. The American people must be aware that this is a very serious problem that must be addressed,' says Schwartz.

In the middle of her interview, Dina asked, 'I want to know if I am wasting my time sitting here and telling you my story or are you going to help us?'

I remeber reading up a book about the history of Kashmir. In the book it says something very similar to the article. Basically long ago during Mughal rule when most of Kashmir was still Hindu, it was common for Kashmiri Muslims and Hindus marrying one another. The newly converted Kashmiri Muslism also did not mind giving their daughter in marriage to a Hindu while Hindus in Kashmir also did not mind giving their daughters to Muslims in marriage. Then I think it was during the reign of Emperor Jahangir who took alarm to these reports of Kashmiri Muslims marrying their daughter to Kashmiri Hindus. So he decided to outlaw a Muslim female from marrying into a Hindu family, strangly no such law was created for Hindu females from marrying Muslim men. This is a huge double standard Muslims have.

My sister in Law knew a Hindu girl who married a Pakistani Muslim man. The Muslim man acted very liberal minded, loving and romantic. He told her she did not even have to convert to Islam for their marriage. But right after marriage he began to forbid her from seeing her family or even praying to her Hindu God. Some beating was also involved. But the poor hindu girl felt helpless to turn to anyone because she was no longer allowed to see her family or have non Muslim friends. Whatever money she earned she was never allowed to spend it, she had to give all her hard earned money to her husband. Ironically she earned more money than her Pakistani husband who was working a labour job while she was working in an office.

[Mr Sardar]

I know an aunty who back ages ago when she was in college was going out with a Pakistan Muslim she was Sikh, back then most of London was all white so they had something in common, she then became pregnant out of marriage, now her dad and mum really freaked out, her mum nearly killed her and her baby for what she done, her dad, tracked the guy down and tried to sit them down for a talk about what happened, and they decided to get married.

She said she loved him for the person he was, they had a happy joyful life, then the mother in law, starting to ask her Sikh daughter in law, to pray for the family etc, she said she don't believe in God(technically speaking one must be batptised amrtidhari and following rehat to be Sikh, most people are just sikh by name etc.). But she said she wouldnt do namaz, then this persisted the mother told her son, they all started to force her, she refused they beat her, etc. She ranaway with her son, came back to her father, to tell him what happened they gave threats they want there son back etc. So then the Sikh girls dad called the police, and go a restraining order, they filled divorce, and from then on she mothered 1 daughter and a son she had from there as a single mother and this women is still around, her son and daughter can't speak a word of punjabi, and live like Ghorra, Now when the kid got to uni, and people found out about his descent, Sikhs would harras him and bully him, he got alienated from there, he became a drug adict and chucked out the house, chucked out of uni.

It may sound very odd, but is a true story, In terms of rituals Sikhism is the opposite for Islam, in Islam you would circumcise shave the head of the boy, in Sikhism the boy has to keep his hair and maintain the form God created him, were Islam would stress that idea is unhygenic (a notion mentioned in the Haddiths not Quran when it comes to Sunnah).

I personally know a few Half Sikh half Muslims, and they tend to have problems fitting in with crowds, and when it comes to this and that it is very difficult, both religions demand a set of rules, sharia or rehat maryada both have induction rules commitment of shahadha and keeping the 5 pillars of Islam or taking amrit and keeping 5 ks, rehat and nitnem.

For a Sikh a wife or husband is your other half and the person you continue and get to fufil your spirtual journy and path to God, the Sikh rites, anand karaj of marriage is circling the Guru Granth Sahib to accept 2 bodies and 1 soul and in the middle the Guru, 1 thing. In the rehat Maryada and all Gurdwaras are given Hukam(order) that a Sikh can only marry a Sikh.

And I would suggest the same for Islam, if you really love your Islam, and care about your generation following that path, do you really want someone who is not a Muslim to teach there ideology to there kids, I personally woulc question there religious character of that person who would even consider someone not from there religion, the whole act of marriage is in pursuit of something else, perhaps sexual, or physical, or social.

Marriage is a journey of pain and joy, you are there for each others pains suffering bad, and ugly moments too, not some bird you link in uni you think is fit.

I personally know Sikh guys that linked up with Muslim 'birds' but in the end there kids religion is gone and they have lost there values to that.

Society has brainwashed everyone to think in a certain way, so we reject the notion which our Prophet or Guru may have taught us and we go with the way of duniya( the world) kaljug(dark Ages0 Shatan(devil) maya(materilism) Dajal. we follow that evil, of lust and sexuality.

So if you are a true Muslim, marry a Muslim, and if she is a true Sikh, she can only marry a true Sikh.

Otherwise you can be coconuts and just go to a register office get married there, then change your names to George and Edna, forget the religion forget it all, Allah has given you a choice of life, if that is what you want, do so.

One key differences is also leaving a faith, a Sikh can leave a faith, but then most of the Sikh community would frown on them and feel they have been dishonoured, however If a Muslim decided to Leave Islam, they would be stoned to death.

Short answer, knowing the punjabi community quite well she would be hated, by just like jesus said he who is without sin may caste the first stone, its abit the other way, people chat this and that and say things about other people but they are hypocrites themselves.

There was a story time back in the news a Sikh guy was shot because a pakistani guy thought his daughter was going out with his son, however it turned out she was dating another Muslim guy back in the metro time back, so its sad to see some things work only one way not the other.

p.s. I agree with Tony