Darshan Singh in Hamburg

[Matheen]

This website has a good interview recorded from Akash radio where they expose and challenge Prof Darshan Singh's anti Sri Dasam Granth agenda.

Some good videos as well.

http://www.gurdwara-hamburg.de/

[Mithar]

I feel so sad that a great Gursikh personality like Prof Darshan Singh Jee deviated from Gurmat. I had so much respect for him, in fact I still have respect for him, I love his Keertan. I pray to Vaheguru that Prof Jee comes back to how he was years ago and not go against Dasam Granth.

We forum members who are not even equal to the dust of the feet of Prof Darshan Singh Jee the way he was in his younger years, need to learn a lesson from his life. If a great man like him can fall and deviate from Gurmat, then who are we? We are nothing in comparison! We should always be humble and pray everyday to Guru Jee that we not deviate away from the path of Gurmat and ultimately get a place at Guru jee's charan. We should always pray for Bibek Buddhi.

[Mithar]

Just curious but whose the Nihang Singh Jee sitting in the room? From his voice you can tell he must be a very good PaaThi.

[unbreakable]

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[Matheen]

Unbreakable Ji, watch the videos on the website I posted and listen to him claim that 5 Banis are not necessary during Amrit Sanchar.

Listen to the recorded radio show as well.

He is a good Kirtanee, but his knowledge seems limited to the 'Amrit Kirtan' Pothi.

He signed a document agreeing to stop his anti-Dasam Granth parchar (which contravenes an order from the Akaal Takht) and broke his promise a few days later......

[Mithar]

WRONG APPROACH, it makes us look like fools.

I still ask, how has he deviated from Gurmat, what has he done which has hit a nerve so sensitive that people think he is not a Sikh?

As Matheen said, watch the videos and you'll get your answer.

It's one thing to not beleive in Dasam Granth, but what Prof Darshan Singh Jee is doing is that he is actively doing Prachar against Dasam Granth which goes against the Akal Takht HukamNama. If he does not beleive in it, then he should atleast not actively do prachar against it. Everyone is in favour of discourse. In India, learned Singhs even challenged him to a debate about Dasam Granth, but he never showed up. So if he is not going to debate, then why is he doing Prachar against it?

Sikhs have asked him very nicely with full respect, no one has used any violence against him.

BTW I'm against the use of violence in a religious issue especially when it comes to Dasam Granth. Only fanatics with no knowledge and who are very insecure about themselves resort to hooliganism.

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[Mithar]

Panthic.org has also covered the story with their usual Masala filled details.

http://www.panthic.org/news/131/ARTICLE/4452/2008-10-17.html

Personally I'm not in favour of Karara Masala type reporting. I don't like it. But if you see the kind of propaganda also being spread by the other side i.e. supporters of Ghagha, Kala Afghana and Prof Darshan Singh Jee, they are also resorting to Masala filled details in thieir articles.

Its sad that Sikhs have degenerated this low that Sikhs from either side of the debate are resorting to such low tactics. One thing is certain and also a little strange, and that is that BOTH SIDES accuse the other of being a part of RSS (lol!), when the truth is both sides probably nothing to even do with RSS. But seeing as how RSS is the new houwaa i.e. Boogyman of the once mighty and brave Sikhs, we now always try to call someone RSS just to destroy their credibility even if it isn't even the truth.

[amardeep]

Its funny that AKJ and other such groups are actively doing parchar against raagmala (see articles on tapoban.org for instance) and at the same time accuse darshan singh of blasphemy due to his stance on dasam bani.

hypocrites

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[Mithar]

The Hindus plan well ahead in advance, they can see trouble afar.

The Muslims manage to get through their troubles.

The Sikhs act first, think later at what has happened.

I don't know how it is said in English but I know how it is said in Punjabi and Hindi since it is a very popular and sadly to some extent even true saying of North India.

It goes along the lines of:

The Hindu can see a storm happening, well before it has even started.

The Muslim can see the storm as it is happening.

The Sikh only realises a storm occurd once it has passed away.

This is probably one of the first "sardar jee" jokes, but I have to admit there is alot of truth in that saying. Just take a look at our history and you can pin point so many mistakes our quam has made. The period of Banda Singh Bahadur, Misl Period, Ranjit Singh period, during Anglo Sikh wars, during 1857 Gadhar, During the Singh Sabha movement, Akali movement, 1947, during Punjab rights movement, during 1984 and post 1984 is a history of so many mistakes, but at the same time you cannot find any other quam in my honest unbias opinion with such a glorious history.

I think the best of our "history" is yet to come. I think Guru Jee does have a plan for his Panth. This whole anti or pro Dasam Granth period we are going through right now will also pass away within our time period. This period of Dasam Granth debates will just be a foot note when we read about Sikh history in books 40 years from now I think.

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[ringdingding]

Its sad that Sikhs have degenerated this low that Sikhs from either side of the debate are resorting to such low tactics. One thing is certain and also a little strange, and that is that BOTH SIDES accuse the other of being a part of RSS (lol!), when the truth is both sides probably nothing to even do with RSS. But seeing as how RSS is the new houwaa i.e. Boogyman of the once mighty and brave Sikhs, we now always try to call someone RSS just to destroy their credibility even if it isn't even the truth.

It must be remembered that it is claimed by historians that Brahmins destroyed Buddhism (which was a 'super power' at that time) by infiltrating it and causing differences of opinion, creating factions and different sects, which would then go on to quarell with each other, helping to destroy the relgion from within. (mughals were also instigated by the brahmins to fight them - in the same way as they were instigated to finish off the sikhs)

see http://abheek-athavale.sulekha.com/blog/po...tions-part2.htm

It seems that this is probably true, as I can see they are doing EXACTLY the same thing to sikhi - Our religion is infiltrated (at the top) in nearly every organisation/jatha/samprada - even the Akal Takht, where Jathedars can be sacked and replaced at the request of non-sikh politicians . Different sikh groups can be seen vehemently fighting each other due to some particular difference of opinion which they seem to hold as so important, that its as though they fanatically worship it - forgetting everything else!

to sum it up, it can make perfect sense why 2 groups can both accuse each other of being part of 'RSS', if they have indeed both been infiltrated by 'RSS' with the aim of installing slightly differing ideologues to confuse the followers into conflict.

Divide and Rule

[Mithar]

ringdingding, I have read all the Khalistani propaganda from the 80s and 90s which were full of how Hindus destroyed Buddhism and try to link that as being identical to the genuine Sikh struggle that went on since 1978. In Sikh political literature this whole Buddhism vs Hinduism connection started after 1984, probably during the early 90s (that’s when I first heard this connection). Since then Sikh intellectuals have just milked this theory to the fullest without even checking the validity of this theory.

This whole story reeks of half truths and exaggerated facts. I really don’t buy this whole conspiracy theory that Brahmins plotted since day one to over throw and destroy Buddhism. Fact remains that most of Buddha’s early disciples and companions themselves were Brahmins, yet our pseudo historians conveniently over look this fact. Our historians like Sangat Singh even go to the extent of trying to claim that a saintly man like Shankara Acharya himself incited and led people to kill Buddhists all over India, when in fact Shankar Acharya won over Buddhism in India using his intellect and debating skills. The so called theory of violent extermination of the Buddhists in India is a MYTH!!!!! (Yes!! It never happened!!).

Buddhism itself was on the decline, and Advait Vedanta ultimately defeated it intellectually all over India. Shankar Acharya in his short yet eventful life travelled all over India holding debates with Buddhists. Yet our modern revisionism Khalistani propagandists(most of whom are Kala Afghanists) would have us believe that there was some conspiracy theory that ultimately defeated Buddhism through the use of violence even though there is absolutely no historical evidence of this theory.

The problem is, Khalistani propagandists have borrowed heavily from Dalit propagandists. If you read Dalit propaganda, it is 99% identical to Khalistani propaganda. In other words, we have simply regurgitated Dalit propaganda. Dalits also try to portray the Buddhist movement as somehow being predominately Dalit when in fact most of the early Buddhists during and after the Buddha overwhelmingly belonged to the so called high castes, particularly the Brahmins.

Sikhi does have a strugle with Hinduism just as all religions struggle against one another. Currently there is a decisive struggle going on in this world between Islam and the west both violently and on the intellectual level, only time will tell who will win this intellectual struggle. Similarly Sikhi being a new religion having most of it’s converts from Hinduism is bound to have a struggle with the Brahmins. Same way Hinduism through Advait Vedanta also had this intellectual struggle going on between them and the Buddhists in India(at the time India was a Buddhist country). It had nothing to do with conspiracy theories.

[ringdingding]

Yes nearly all historic records are biased. Agreed, god knows the exact truth of what happened 2000 years ago, I dont, I wasnt there.

Anyway, what do you think about my point that our organisations are infiltrated by brahmin agents intent on bringing about confusion in the Panth?

[Mithar]

I think that it is all false propaganda. In my own theory which I don't have facts for, but I think that this theory is mainly the result of ISI influence in Sikh affairs. Sikhs have their own genuine grievances with India and the ISI took advantage of this by trying to throw in anti Hindu propaganda and the usual suspects in this “drive-by-smear-campaign” were the Brahmins.

We try to hide our own failures and short-sightedness by simply blaming every little thing on the scapegoat who in this case happens to be the Brahmins. Yes we do have some conflicts with the North Indian Hindu majority which are political in nature since we were largely lied to by Nehru and Gandhi before partition. But sadly our pseudo intellectuals (most of whom have no religious training and absolutely no rehet) leave no stone unturned to blame everything on Hindus, RSS, Brahmins without checking themselves out first.

Sant Jarnail Singh Jee was different than all Sikh leaders in this regard. Despite Khalistani propaganda which tries to falsely portray him as being anti Hindu, he was a true Gursikh who saw everything in the correct context to the situation instead of foolish Sikh leaders of today like Mann and Bittu who are basically Jattboots (honestly they are!!). Today in the Panth we don’t have a single Sikh leader who has any of the qualities of Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawala. Sant Jee was a warrior, giani, leader, humble, wise, handsome, rehetvan all in one. Do any of the current Sikh leaders have this in them? NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM!!! My conscience doesn’t allow me to regard any of them as being my leader.

Compare our current Panthic leadership of Mann, Bittu and the likes of them to current Kashmiri leaders. Whereas our leaders are basically (politically and intellectually) uninformed buffoons, the Kashmiri leaders are wise. Without firing a single shot they have already revived a separatist movement in Kashmir, shouts and chants of “AZADI” can be heard all over in Kashmir valley! Where as our current Sikh leadership bicker and admin cut about RSS all the time while our youth cut their hair, girls marry clean shaven boys, the Kashmiri leaders in the last few years promoted Islam and made the Kashmiri youth religiuosly, politically aware. That is wise leadership. In colleges/universities of kashmir, the girls who once wore pants now always have their heads covered and wear suits as traditional girls, in Punjab the once Punjabi suit wearing Sikh girls are overwhelmingly wearing pants and other western clothing.

Our Panthic leadership in all honesty are I D I O T S!! No other word describes them more perfectly. I got no respect for them politically or religiously.

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