dalsingh101 Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 How does this make you feel? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Thanks for this Dalsingh Ji. I guess our tribalist brothers will call this a 'piece of propoganda'. Well I can tell you first hand that its not. I have seen this crap with my own eyes. Then people wonder and cry about why so many people in Punjab are going to Deras or Churches, I for one don't judge them for changing hats, only we are to blame. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted May 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Thanks for this Dalsingh Ji. I guess our tribalist brothers will call this a 'piece of propoganda'. Well I can tell you first hand that its not. I have seen this crap with my own eyes. I've seen jerks in my own family do it!! If there ever was a time to face this crap and battle it, it is now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Here is the earlier part: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6zrqRztACg...feature=related 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Everyone is guilty of this- every samparda in the panth- nirmale, udasi, nihangs, taksal, sevapanthis, missionaries organizations like sgpc, gurdwara committes, takth sahiban commitee's. They all preach sanjha parchar from gurbani when it comes to giving mahant gaddi, membership in the commitee to someone lower caste(as they put it) who happen to be utam sevadar as well, all their advaita/sanjha parchar goes off the window. Someone said panth does not beleive in jatt-patt. Yea right. I say to these people, you guys must be still in your honeymoon phases of being newly amritdhari. This jatt-batt vikra started during misl times and became every much part of the panth.. its soo normal in india. If you speak against it, you get laughed by old gurmukhs or your old folks. As drawrof rightly pointed out in another thread, its sad reality in the panth. Even if our generations does make a difference of destroying jatt-patt through massive parchar of tat sidhant of gurmat. The differences jatha's and samparada's will be always there in terms of my jatha is better than yours or my baba is better than yours or my samparda is better than yours. Speaking in contex of jatt-patt, so far akj seems to be immune from all this jatt-patt. However if one scratches their surface carefully, stink of discrimination also comes from them too where soo called gurmukh naam abhyaasi singhs/gurmukhs will seek their partners from the same jatha. No one is immune from this, every one in the panth is diseased from it. Solution- Lets do some house cleaning, ask your conscience first- would you really let your sons or daughter marry someone from soo called lower caste, if not then no point of giving high morality speeches, if yes then one should make a difference through parchar and education. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted May 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Even if our generations does make a difference of destroying jatt-patt through massive parchar of tat sidhant of gurmat. The differences jatha's and samparada's will be always there in terms of my jatha is better than yours or my baba is better than yours or my samparda is better than yours. Q: How do you eat an elephant? A: One bite at a time. Lets do some house cleaning, ask your conscience first- would you really let your sons or daughter marry someone from soo called lower caste, if not then no point of giving high morality speeches, if yes then one should make a difference through parchar and education. Personally I would look at character first. For a boy ot would be straight forwardness, bravery, intelligence and loyalty. How they carry themselves. The main arena here is the family arena in my opinion. That is where the stupidity stems from in the first place and that is where it will ultimately be changed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Well said N30, I agree with you and again confirm 1st hand, that this disease affects every single part of the Panth - no one is exempt, I could tell you some stories that would shock, but there is no point - what I have seen and heard has simply confirmed how maya even engulfs that place which people think is pure. I would marry my daughter to a (true) Singh - irrelevant of the jaath. I am one of the lucky ones - my mother even though hailing from Punjab proper (Samrava), has never discriminated in her actions - she has friends who are Muslims, Hindus, Africans, let alone from all jaath paath including our Churai, Chumaar, Shimbai etc etc. The only women that annoy her are overly zealous Indian Jehovas Witnesses. I also have seen many times - AKJ will only marry within their own jaath, let alone jathaa. Same is true for other big shouters of equality i.e. Radao Swamis, I have seen u-turns on the core of their beliefs too. N30 - Sardar Jassa Singh Aluvalia was a Kalaal - yet was raised by Mata Sundri Ji and eventually became Panth Patshah - things were not always one jaath orientated. We can only change ourselves (and that is the hardest part), and in doing so, hope to involintarily influence those around us. That in it self would be a huge achievement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 i can understand the marriage issue in the old days, when there were big differences in the rehni-behni and habits etc of different groups, but today it is meaningless. At least 3HO seems to be immune of this disease. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted May 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Panjabis can be morons at times....well quite often actually.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 as far as i've heard 3HO only marry within 3ho.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystical Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Its sad watching this. I think main issue here is the EGO about the persons caste. A person who has too much pride in his caste and thinks they can treat the "lower caste" badly to feel more supreme is something I woulnt call dharam. Maybe its to do with insecurities within themselves too, "We got three TVs in our house, you only got two!". Where does is say to treat lower caste badly in Vedas and Shastras? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Actually, 3HOs marry anyone, quite often non-Sikhs. They have their own take on maryada and have their own version of rehits (3HO Panj Pyare version). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 3h0 are also guilty of segregating themselves like rest of jathas in the panth. The fact is they themselves don't interact much with punjabi sikhs. But then again, when you have bunch of fussar panthis from punjabi sikh community nit pick on gorreh singhs/singhanis doing yoga and call it manmat or call them manmukhs on their faces and get all worked up and banned them from doing parchar in the Gurdwara's. what you expect?. We should consider ourselves bit lucky, these gorreh singhs/singhanis- 3ho, don't take this fascist/racist attitude seriously to their heart and convert to different dharam. I know if we were in minorities in the religion in terms of race, we would be the first one to jump up create petitions and who's know what else?. It takes two to tango, big fiasco everywhere in the panth. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Many 3HOs are actually trying to learn puratan traditions. There are many 3HOs learning raag kirtan, even studying it at under-graduate level. There are also 3HOs learning Shastar Vidya, after having tried their hand at gatka for a few years. They do actually mix with Punjabis - just at a more intellectual level. You just have odd stuck up exceptions here and there. The truth is, now that they are becoming more proficient in Punjabi and learning more about Sikhi, they need Punjabis more than ever. I have met some exceptional 3HOs who have even taken santhia seriously, and can recite a mean Jap-Ji Sahib - which would be quite exceptable at any santhia taksal. One guy I would recommend visiting is Karta Singh in France - he is the main guy 3HO in mainland Europe, Shiv Charan being the UK equivalent. Karta is a genuinely cool guy who has time for everyone and runs a really cool self sustaining centre in the French Alps located above a beautiful ravine, they grow their own food and everything! Try his laughter Yoga and Jaap Sahib bhangra if you dare! But on another note, they are not diseased with the caste thing, thats for sure... other than that, what is more perfect for a yogi than another yogi! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Yeah man, i think punjabi sikhs can learn quite a bit from them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted May 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Yeah man, i think punjabi sikhs can learn quite a bit from them. If we ever get over this caste thing, we will need them to teach us how to live without the baggage!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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