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Spn View Of Dasam Grath


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I hope this clears up this nonsense that Inder Singh's bruised ego started.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/dasam-granth...sam-granth.html

Sri Dasam Granth has been one of the Guru Khalsa Panth’s “accepted” Granths… albeit with a pinch of salt. There are others… Sarb loh Granth is one… Suraj Paraksh Granth is another. The Nitnem Banis and Banis recited at Amrit Sanskaar are from Sri Dasam Granth… and MOST Sikhs accept them as per Rehat Maryada ordained by the Akal Takhat… even though there is no irrefutable evidence based on Rehitnamahs or other contemporary historical accounts as to the NAMED BANIS Guru ji recited in 1699… and on the other side of the spectrum… a few Jathas accept Sri Dasam Granth in Toto… including the Chirtarpakhoyan Hikayats etc.

A small minority of Sikhs have begun to question and reject the Sri Dasam Granth in toto – including the nitnem Banis... this position was hardened possibly due to the opposing side, who wants the entire Sri Dasam Granth including the highly controversial parts accepted in toto. BOTH sides have been arguing and presenting historical evidence and both sides have their Die hard believers. As soon as one side began to insist on ALL or Nothing… the opposing side visibly hardened its stand… and chose NOTHING. This section of the Guru Khalsa Panth now even wants the First pauree of Ardaas removed as it is extracted from Chandi di Vaar, which is part of Sri Dasam Granth. The Faridabad Sikhs were the pioneers in this action and the Gurudwara in Finland is the first in the Diaspora to take this drastic step to change Pritham Bhagauti simar ke to Pritham AKAL PURAKH simar ke... and other changes. It is clear the position is slipping out of the hands of the Panth and its time the SGPC/Akal takhat/Other Takhats took a serious view of this deteriorating situation and take remedial actions as soon as possible.

To the uninitiated it may look like the following scenario… just as there is a long line of Dehdharee “Gurus” lined up AFTER Guru Gobind Singh Ji… and there is a fantastic fairy tale type of “history” created to strengthen this… and we have Guru No. 11, Guru No. 12, Guru No. 13, Guru No. 14… and so on… and branches of several “living Gurus”…

Now, this scenario seems to have spread to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as well….slowly a line of “Granths” is being lined up in a queue behind Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji… the First in the Queue pushing and shoving… to get ahead or PARALLEL… to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji… is Sri Dasam Granth… variously called by names Bachittar Naatak Granth ( Internal evidence shows at several places it is written... Here ends the Bachittar natak Granth) At Two Takhats – Hazoor Sahib and Patna Sahib… and at several Dera places in Punjab this Granth is in Paraksh parallel to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or in a “appropriate lesser position”… But still in the same DARBAR… One Sect/Jatha even Names the Three Main Granths similar names… AAD Darbar, Sri Dasam Granth Darbar, and Sarb loh Darbar – Having conspicuously REMOVED the Title GURU from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji… and elevated the other two to a Parallel Position. A Fateh Divas was celebrated for Sri Dasam Granth in the same manner the 400th Anniversary of Gurgadee Diharra of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was celebrated. In fact, the DRASTIC DROP in attendance at the 400th anniversary celebration at Hazoor Sahib… was due to the insistence of the Takhat Authorities to not heed the call to “temporarily” remove the Parkash/stop Parkash of Sri Dasam Granth so that the FULL ATTENTION AND RESPECT of all in the Guru Khalsa Panth could be given to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji UNRESERVEDLY as was the Practice of Guru Gobind Singh ji in October 1708, when GURGADEE was ONLY given to SOLELY Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and NO OTHER Granth was parallel to paraksh of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. (Sri Dasam Granth came very much later after Sachkhand Piana of Guru Gobind Singh ji). The Takhat Authorities failed to heed this call and hence a large number of Sikhs absented themselves from paying obeisance at Hazoor Sahib in Oct 2008... a Huge LOSS !!

Source:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25726 (Sikh Philosophy Network's Stand on Dasam Granth Compilations)

This is the position of Sri Dasam Granth vis-a-vis Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji at present. The Jury is still OUT as to whether the Entire Sri Dasam Granth is Guru Kirt (Handwritten Work)... and if not what Banis are Guru Kirt and which ones not. Both sides have PHD Scholars and academicians, web sites, Forums and Internet sites presenting their side of the “facts”… And so far NO DECISION on Sri Dasam Granth has been arrived at that is binding on anyone/all.

This decision can only be arrived at by consensus... as Gurbani declares... Gurmukhs sit down and discuss… listen to all arguments, weigh them all, seek answers from everyone… and once a DECISION UNANIMOUSLY ARRIVED AT is declared... all accept it unreservedly.

NO one Group/Jatha/individual can “cry wolf”… (slander) and expect the other side to just give up or desist… this being the 21st Century, 3rd Millennium, Age of IT, Internet, Vast Resources available at the finger tips of even a child, Age of Science and REASONING/LOGIC… no one sided “Decision/Blind faith/Shardha/etc will be bought by any except the brainwashed/pakka adherents/solidly wish-washy ones. There will be such types in the region of about 10% on BOTH sides... its the 80% MIDDLE GROUND/Fence Sitters that have to be Fully CONVINCED...

Source:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25726 (Sikh Philosophy Network's Stand on Dasam Granth Compilations)

SPN Forum is in the Forefront of those, who are on Middle Ground… the Fence sitters... who are looking earnestly at BOTH SIDES of the Sri Dasam Granth DIVIDE... to “convince” and win them over.

SPN is one Forum/Research resource on Gurmatt/Sikhi that is very widely accessed by Sikhs and Non-Sikhs alike – SPN's membership extends across race, national boundaries, economic status, Economic divide, religious groups, social groups… and is truly MULTI-NATIONAL… stretching across continents… with a membership exceeding 8,800, and over 102,000 posts and a plethora of well written researched scholarly articles on Sri Dasam Granth, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Sikh history, and various related subjects… it is to the advantage of anyone to NOT Cast wild allegations, unfounded and baseless UNTRUTHS, etc. SPN is one place that provides a balanced view of Sikhism/Gurmat and it will stay that way… regardless of individual jealousies and DON QUIXOTIC Attempts at slashing at SPN windmills (imaginary Dragons).

The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is ACCEPTED BY ALL Sikhs as the One and ONLY GURU. No one has any doubts about the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji… and NO Sikh should even dare to question/suggest questioning the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji on any pretext… on this SPN stands FIRMLY BEHIND Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...

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Fateh!

1. Every Sikh accepts Guru Granth Sahib as Guru, including the Nihangs whose beliefs you try to demean without having the nads to name them.

2. Telling us that SPN stands behind Sri Guru Granth Sahib in a debate about Dasam Granth is unneccessary and smacks of the typical Kala Afghana tactic of screaming "BLASPHEMY! THEY SAID THAT GURU GRANTH SAHIB IS NOT GURU!!! DID YOU HEAR WHAT THAT DASAM GRANTH GUY JUST SAID!?!?!!1111".

3. There is no such thing as a unanimous concensus - it's an oxymoron. To allow these anti-Dasam Granth scum a platform for their propaganda because you hope to convince them of the authenticity of Dasam Granth is both fatuous and dishonest.

4. Dasam Granth has been accepted by the Panth long before Kala Afghana, Inder Ghagga, Ragi Darshan Singh and the rest of those undereducated Sikh Missionary acolytes looking to make a name for themselves by courting controversy were conceived and dropped on their heads by their mothers.

5. Sikhi is a religion, and as such many things will always be beyond reason, logic and the vain attempts by correspondence course PhDs to unravel its mysteries. A Sikh without sharda and satkaar for bani of all ten living Gurus is a shishya of his own ego not of Guru Nanak.

6. Akal Takhat has already issued an edict banning discussion of Dasam Granth's authenticity. Do you consider that 5 Sikhs have come together to write this edict as a concensus on behalf of the Sikh Panth. If not, what kind of concensus are you looking for?

K.

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Artcicle given by randip singh is written by Gyani jarnail singh aka jarnail singh arshi. This article also demontrates a typical case of rigged debate on SPN.

The thread was closed as soon as one member Simba posted in this thread that he had knowledge of langauge of Dasam Granth and from that he could conclude

that whole Dasam granth is written by tenth master.

After two days of closing the thread Gyani Jarnail singh , a great fan of kala afghana , is allowed to post this one sided article in the same thread. What a shame?

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Randip singh has furnished a post of jarnail singh Giani and says that the post reflects SPN view of dasam granth.

It is worth to mention here that Giani jarnail singh is a hard core kala afghana follower.Below are comments

for Giani's article

Sri Dasam Granth has been one of the Guru Khalsa Panth’s “accepted” Granths… albeit with a pinch of salt. There are others… Sarb loh Granth is one… Suraj Paraksh Granth is another. The Nitnem Banis and Banis recited at Amrit Sanskaar are from Sri Dasam Granth… and MOST Sikhs accept them as per Rehat Maryada ordained by the Akal Takhat… even though there is no irrefutable evidence based on Rehitnamahs or other contemporary historical accounts as to the NAMED BANIS Guru ji recited in 1699… and on the other side of the spectrum… a few Jathas accept Sri Dasam Granth in Toto… including the Chirtarpakhoyan Hikayats etc.

Dasam granth has been always an accepted and respected scripture of khalsa panth ever since its inception.There is evidence

about banis having been read from Dasam granth in 1699.

Read

This is from Bhai jaita ji's granth. Bhai jaita was eye witness of Pahul ceremony in 1699.

http://uploads.sikhsangat.com/monthly_07_2...-1216616102.jpg

Here is a second account

"The revered mother asked Bhai Kirpa Ram, ‘What Guru ji is doing?’ He said, ‘Revered mother’, Guru ji is preparing ambrosial nectar of the double-edged broadsword for administering it to the Sikhs.’ The revered mother was deeply moved on hearing this. She instantly came to Guru’s presence with a lawful of patasas. Paying at first her obeisance to Guru ji, she poured the patasas from her lap into that bowl. The all-knowing Guru ji did not look at her and continued with his recitation of Jap ji with full concentration. After reciting the sacred compositions of Jap ji, Jaap Sahib, Sawayyas and Chaupai, he recited Anand Sahib. When the ambrosial elixir became ready, he stood up and performed the Ardas. Concluding it with the prayer; he called out Fateh, and raised aloud the spirited chant of Sat Sri Akal.

Creation Of Khalsa by Bhat Sarup singh Kaushish in Guru Kian sakhian

Unquote

BHai Chaupa singh's rehatnama gives date of completion of Charitropakhayn.That coincides with date in dasam granth. GIani need to raedc rehatnamas before telling lies.Can giani furnish a reference here from sikh history in support of his claim.

A small minority of Sikhs have begun to question and reject the Sri Dasam Granth in toto – including the nitnem Banis... this position was hardened possibly due to the opposing side, who wants the entire Sri Dasam Granth including the highly controversial parts accepted in toto. BOTH sides have been arguing and presenting historical evidence and both sides have their Die hard believers. As soon as one side began to insist on ALL or Nothing… the opposing side visibly hardened its stand… and chose NOTHING. This section of the Guru Khalsa Panth now even wants the First pauree of Ardaas removed as it is extracted from Chandi di Vaar, which is part of Sri Dasam Granth. The Faridabad Sikhs were the pioneers in this action and the Gurudwara in Finland is the first in the Diaspora to take this drastic step to change Pritham Bhagauti simar ke to Pritham AKAL PURAKH simar ke... and other changes. It is clear the position is slipping out of the hands of the Panth and its time the SGPC/Akal takhat/Other Takhats took a serious view of this deteriorating situation and take remedial actions as soon as possible.

Entire Dasam granth has been accepted by khalsa panth. That is why there is Hukamnama from akal takhat terming those who create misinformation about Dasam granth as mischief mongers.

It si time that akal takhat send such blasphemic elements out of Khalsa panth as those who oppose bani of Sikh Gurus are not sikhs.

To the uninitiated it may look like the following scenario… just as there is a long line of Dehdharee “Gurus” lined up AFTER Guru Gobind Singh Ji… and there is a fantastic fairy tale type of “history” created to strengthen this… and we have Guru No. 11, Guru No. 12, Guru No. 13, Guru No. 14… and so on… and branches of several “living Gurus”…

Ridiculous statement that has no relevance with subject.

Sahib Ji… the First in the Queue pushing and shoving… to get ahead or PARALLEL… to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji… is Sri Dasam Granth… variously called by names Bachittar Naatak Granth ( Internal evidence shows at several places it is written... Here ends the Bachittar natak Granth) At Two Takhats – Hazoor Sahib and Patna Sahib… and at several Dera places in Punjab this Granth is in Paraksh parallel to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji or in a “appropriate lesser position”… But still in the same DARBAR… One Sect/Jatha even Names the Three Main Granths similar names… AAD Darbar, Sri Dasam Granth Darbar, and Sarb loh Darbar – Having conspicuously REMOVED the Title GURU from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji… and elevated the other two to a Parallel Position. A Fateh Divas was celebrated for Sri Dasam Granth in the same manner the 400th Anniversary of Gurgadee Diharra of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was celebrated. In fact, the DRASTIC DROP in attendance at the 400th anniversary celebration at Hazoor Sahib… was due to the insistence of the Takhat Authorities to not heed the call to “temporarily” remove the Parkash/stop Parkash of Sri Dasam Granth so that the FULL ATTENTION AND RESPECT of all in the Guru Khalsa Panth could be given to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji UNRESERVEDLY as was the Practice of Guru Gobind Singh ji in October 1708, when GURGADEE was ONLY given to SOLELY Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and NO OTHER Granth was parallel to paraksh of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. (Sri Dasam Granth came very much later after Sachkhand Piana of Guru Gobind Singh ji). The Takhat Authorities failed to heed this call and hence a large number of Sikhs absented themselves from paying obeisance at Hazoor Sahib in Oct 2008... a Huge LOSS !!

THis is another mischievious statement . All sikhs consider SGGS ji as their Guru. Nevertheless Dasam granth has always been in parkash at Hazoor sahib. It was also in parkash at akal takhat sahib till 1942. Giani ji check your sources.

This is the position of Sri Dasam Granth vis-a-vis Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji at present. The Jury is still OUT as to whether the Entire Sri Dasam Granth is Guru Kirt (Handwritten Work)... and if not what Banis are Guru Kirt and which ones not. Both sides have PHD Scholars and academicians, web sites, Forums and Internet sites presenting their side of the “facts”… And so far NO DECISION on Sri Dasam Granth has been arrived at that is binding on anyone/all.

Whole khalsa panth accepts Dasam granth in entirety as of tenth amster. Only a few heretics doubt that. THose heretics can walk out and form their own panth.

SPN is one Forum/Research resource on Gurmatt/Sikhi that is very widely accessed by Sikhs and Non-Sikhs alike – SPN's membership extends across race, national boundaries, economic status, Economic divide, religious groups, social groups… and is truly MULTI-NATIONAL… stretching across continents… with a membership exceeding 8,800, and over 102,000 posts and a plethora of well written researched scholarly articles on Sri Dasam Granth, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Sikh history, and various related subjects… it is to the advantage of anyone to NOT Cast wild allegations, unfounded and baseless UNTRUTHS, etc. SPN is one place that provides a balanced view of Sikhism/Gurmat and it will stay that way… regardless of individual jealousies and DON QUIXOTIC Attempts at slashing at SPN windmills (imaginary Dragons).

SPN is famous for conducting rigged debates. This article you have written in a thread that was closed by administrator. Is it not a sham. Sikh panth considers those who doubt the compositions of Dasam granth as blasphemic elements. Read Hukamnama of akal takhat.SPN is not above akal takhat.

The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is ACCEPTED BY ALL Sikhs as the One and ONLY GURU. No one has any doubts about the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji… and NO Sikh should even dare to question/suggest questioning the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji on any pretext… on this SPN stands FIRMLY BEHIND Sri Guru Granth

Sahib Ji...

YOu have been abusing bani of tenth master yourself and writing it as prono. It is quite possible you may start doubting bani of SGGS also tomorrow. Saleable individuals have no ethics.

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Well that is the view. Like it or lump it. :rolleyes:

My own personal view on Dasam Granth can be summed up in the following:

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/dasam-granth...sam-granth.html

COMPOSITION OF THE DASAM GRANTH

It is unclear where all the compositions of the Dasam Granth come from. Some may have been commissioned by Guruji from his court poets, while other parts may have been penned by Guruji himself..

Note Dasam Granth is not one work like Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, but a compilation of of writings recovered after the sacking of Anandpur Sahib. Many were lost.

Guruji specifically never included Dasam Granth literature in the Guru Granth Sahib ji, so one can conclude it was for another purpose.

Most of Dasam Granth is written in Braj, Punjabi and Persian.

BELIEF IN HINDU GODS

A common misconception is that Dasam Granth praises Hindu Gods. This is not true. So why are they mentioned? For the following reasons:

1) Illustrative purposes : People must remember the Khalsa had just been formed or was in the process of being formed when this was penned. The Sikhs of that time still understood things in terms of Hinduism and Hindu lore. So to describe concepts of God and complex Sikh concepts Guruji had to use concepts that were familiar to the populace hence (hence tales of Hindu mythology).

An example of this is travelling to an island where there is no electricity......how would you describe it in concepts they understand....fire, water ?

2) The is Only one God: Guruji from the start spends pages upon pages (Japu) describing the form of God "Kaal and Akaal" ..."Salutation to the one Indestructible, Salutation to the indivisible" etc etc.

3) The Hindu Gods Are Not Gods: I Akal Ustati Guruji states "He creates as well as destroys both Brahma and Shiva".......now is not a God immortal and Omnipitent? If Brahma and Shiva can be destroyed then they are not Gods. It futher says "Shiva and Vishnu fail to comprehend him"....surely a God knows everything....if Shiva and Vishnu do not know the nature of God, they cannot be Gods.

It further states under Tomar Chand "He created hundreds of Kings like Indra, many Brahmas and Vishnus, many Ramas, Krishnas and other prophets, but none is acceptable to Him without devotion". Guruji views these "Gods" as prophets and not Gods.

Under Kabitt it states

"Many Shivas came to the world and went; Many are incarnation like Krishna and Rama; innumerable are Brahmas and Vishnus, Vedas and Puranas; Many have been authors of Smirtis; They all came and went off; There have been numerous Madrarachal, innumerable Aswini Kumars and equally many progeny of incarnations, but they all have been prey to death."

How can a God die? Unless it is ofcourse not a God and a human. and mortal.

From http://www.sridasam.org/dasam?Action=Page&...=t&id=64483

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਮਹੇਸਰ ਬਿਸਨ ਸਚੀਪਿਤ ਅੰਤ ਫਸੇ ਜਮ ਫਾਸਿ ਪਰੈਂਗੇ ॥

ब्रहम महेसर बिसन सचीपित अंत फसे जम फासि परैंगे ॥

Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu and Consort of Sachi (Indra) would ultimately fall in the noose of death.

There are many other examples but one gets the picture that Guruji thought these so called Hindu "Gods" were just mortal, and therefore not Gods.

4) Specific Audience - The Dasam Granth (and Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji) has a specific audience in mind. For most parts it is Hindu`s in Dasam Granth. In Chandi Di Var, Guruji is trying to inspire the low caste Hindu`s, from which Sikh`s are made up of (Jats, Tarkhans, Kalal`s, Julaha`s, Chamar`s etc), to fight by telling them a story of Indian Lore that they will understand.

Epistle of Victory (or Zafarnama), is addressed to Aurengzeb and tell him of his treachery. What is remarkable about it is the Persian it is written in....apparently poetically and grammatically it is perfect.....something Persian`s for the most part cannot get right because it is such a subtle language....for example one could easily describe a cup a instead of an ocean with one misssed stroke.

WHY IS THE DASAM GRANTH IMPORTANT?

It is important because it describes some key events that occurred, for example the Battle of Bhanghani and Chamkaur. It also names specific Sikhs and who was involved where.

It give`s us an insight into the infant Sikh Nation.

It shows us what an accomplished intellectual Guruji was. In it he writes about the French, the Africans etc:

http://www.sridasam.org/dasam?Action=Page&...=t&id=66496

ਫਰਾ ਕੇ ਫਿਰੰਗੀ ਮਾਨੈਂ ਕੰਧਾਰੀ ਕੁਰੈਸੀ ਜਾਨੈਂ ਪਛਮ ਕੇ ਪੱਛਮੀ ਪਛਾਨੈਂ ਨਿਜ ਕਾਮ ਹੈਂ ॥

फरा के फिरंगी मानैं कंधारी कुरैसी जानैं पछम के प्छमी पछानैं निज काम हैं ॥

Source:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25416 (My Views On Dasam Granth)

The people of France and England revere Thee, the inhabitants of Kandhaar and Quraishis know Thee; the people of western side recognize their duty towards Thee.

Tells us about the behaviour of Sikhs and Guruji:

ਭਾਂਤਿ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਬਨਿ ਖੇਲ ਸਿਕਾਰਾ ॥ ਮਾਰੇ ਰੀਛ ਰੋਝ ਝੰਖਾਰਾ ॥੧॥

भांति भांति बनि खेल सिकारा ॥ मारे रीछ रोझ झंखारा ॥१॥

I went hunting various kinds of animals in the forest and killed bears, nilgais (blue bulls) and elks.1.

ਦੇਸ ਚਾਲ ਹਮ ਤੇ ਪੁਨਿ ਭਈ ॥ ਸਹਰ ਪਾਂਵਟਾ ਕੀ ਸੁਧਿ ਲਈ ॥

देस चाल हम ते पुनि भई ॥ सहर पांवटा की सुधि लई ॥

Source:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=25416 (My Views On Dasam Granth)

Then I left my home and went to place named Paonta.

ਕਾਲਿੰਦ੍ਰੀ ਤਟਿ ਕਰੇ ਬਿਲਾਸਾ ॥ ਅਨਿਕ ਭਾਂਤ ਕੇ ਪੇਖਿ ਤਮਾਸਾ ॥੨॥

कालिंद्री तटि करे बिलासा ॥ अनिक भांत के पेखि तमासा ॥२॥

I enjoyed my stay on the banks of Kalindri (Yamuna) and saw amusement of various kind.

ਤਹ ਕੇ ਸਿੰਘ ਘਨੇ ਚੁਨਿ ਮਾਰੇ ॥ ਰੋਝ ਰੀਛ ਬਹੁ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਬਿਦਾਰੇ ॥

तह के सिंघ घने चुनि मारे ॥ रोझ रीछ बहु भांति बिदारे ॥

There I killed may lions, nilgais and bears.

READ WITH AN OPEN MIND AND UNDERSTANDING

Sikh writings must be understood in their specific, historical, sociological, and economical context. One then gets an image of what is going on:

For example:

1) Kabir writes at the time of the Invasion of Timur and the sacking of Delhi and Benares (which he witnessed), and the slaughter of many innocent Hindu`s.

2) Guru Nanak writes at the time of the invasion of Babur. He witnessed many atrocities.

3) Guruji writes at a time of much strife caused by Aurengzeb

There are others on SPN that find Chitropakyan particularly offensive and an insult to the 10th Master. I may not necessarily agree with their view, but I respect it.

What I fear the likes of Inder Singh/Singh2 are doing is trying to "Talibanise" Sikhi, where people are either Blasphemors or Believers. By Singh2's logic all non-Sikhs are Blasphemers because they don't believe in Sikh scriptures. Incredibly narrow minded and incredibly silly.

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What I fear the likes of Inder Singh/Singh2 are doing is trying to "Talibanise" Sikhi, where people are either Blasphemors or Believers. By Singh2's logic all non-Sikhs are Blasphemers because they don't believe in Sikh scriptures. Incredibly narrow minded and incredibly silly.

I think it's the other way around, the Kala-Afghanists are trying to be like Taliban Wahabbists - deeming anything that doesnt fall within their narrow concept of Sikhi as Anti-Gurmat.

On ANOTHER note, someone needs to REMOVE the CAPS button from 'GYANI' Jarnail ARSHI's keyboard as HIS typing STYLE reflects his understanding OF Dasam Bani - WARPED.

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What I fear the likes of Inder Singh/Singh2 are doing is trying to "Talibanise" Sikhi, where people are either Blasphemors or Believers. By Singh2's logic all non-Sikhs are Blasphemers because they don't believe in Sikh scriptures. Incredibly narrow minded and incredibly silly.

Randip singh ji

I have presented some facts in support of Dasam granth while replying to Giani's points.Please ask him to rebut those

by references instead of giving personal opinion of yourself.

Please also ask him why he steals articles of others and put under his name.THis is called plagiarism Apart from being an offence it is also against

sikh values. The proof was furnished by me giving stolen article'e refrence. How do you believe in what such a person says

or writes?

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"What I fear the likes of Inder Singh/Singh2 are doing is trying to "Talibanise" Sikhi, where people are either Blasphemors or Believers. By Singh2's logic all non-Sikhs are Blasphemers because they don't believe in Sikh scriptures. Incredibly narrow minded and incredibly silly."

From what I have seen, its the Afghani/SPN boys that group all those who complete bharosa in 10th Masters Bani - as Hindus and as Anti-Gurmat - basically the large part of the Panth. The amount of hypocrisy I am seeing is beyond belief. Why are selective SPN guys coming on here simply to attack Singh2, they have nothing to defend, they are clearly abusive and hostile against Sri Dasam Granth and believers - attacking Singh2 won't change that. Accept thats your stance and disappear or else respond to Singh2s questions, stop trying to divert the issue.

I haven't heard one intelligent or well researched arguement against any part of Sri Dasam Granth, only childish-reactionist nonsense - typical of those who are trying to Catholicise the Sikh Marg.

The thing here is not the freedom of people to be confused, have doubts or have questions - or even to not believe - its about this clear propoganda/preaching campaign certain members of SPN are engaging in - moving from forum to forum - there is clearly something sinister in this.

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Jarnail Singh 'Arshi' has had the longest mid life crisis I have ever seen!

:LOL:

I have been active on the internet since around 1996, and have seen his presence on various online Sikh forums since that time.

His way of typing has been the same since then.

I suspect the midlife crisis has been going on from that time as well :LOL:

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I think it's the other way around, the Kala-Afghanists are trying to be like Taliban Wahabbists - deeming anything that doesnt fall within their narrow concept of Sikhi as Anti-Gurmat.

GillAUS,

Guru Fateh.

You said the same nonsense in SPN forum when taken to task by me and then you apologised and I thought you had understood what you said was wrong and your apology was accepted. Was that a fake apology from one who calls himself a Sikh? A Sikh is not supposed to be a fake one but I guess you have proved me and the whole Khalsa Panth wrong.

Tejwant Singh

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GillAUS,

Guru Fateh.

You said the same nonsense in SPN forum when taken to task by me and then you apologised and I thought you had understood what you said was wrong and your apology was accepted. Was that a fake apology from one who calls himself a Sikh? A Sikh is not supposed to be a fake one but I guess you have proved me and the whole Khalsa Panth wrong.

Tejwant Singh

So are you saying that you are a Kala-Afganist , as I was referring Kala-Afghanists by the above statement.

I am not a fake and nor am I 'taken to task'.

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So are you saying that you are a Kala-Afganist , as I was referring Kala-Afghanists by the above statement.

I am not a fake and nor am I 'taken to task'.

GillAUS,

Guru Fateh.

Once again you are not being truthful and shows how much falsehood is there within. You called those who had different opinions about DG as Wahhabis and was taken to task by me for which you apologised. It is all on record and you know it. But people like you when get caught always try to run away.

As far as your above statement, I have nothing for or against KA. It is the itch people like you have and accuse others of some nonsense that you know nothing about because you have lost the debate and have nothing more to debate about. Your hatred towards Sikhi and absence of Sikhi Gyan shows that you are quick to label people and then lie about things. Not a Sikhi trait, I am afraid. What a Shame

Now if you want to have any interaction about SGGS, our ONLY GURU, it will be an honour on my part to do that.:-)

Tejwant Singh

What a shame!

What a shame!

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Hmm,

Seems to be a lot of people against Gyani Arshi. I find his view points quite refreshing. Better than some of the point finger, blasphemer, burn her posts I see.

As for Kala Afghana, I don't know what his views are but from what I see and read here his views don't really seem that bad. His name seems to be banded about as if he is the devil. Not enough to get him called a blasphemer or get him excommunicated. Like I stated in a post on SPN I have more of a problem with pornstars like Sunny Leone redefining Sikh belief, rather than people who try and use reason.

Afgana seems to upset the AKJ crew by saying things about Randhir Singh and things seem to have gone haywire after that. Saying that I frequently upset the AKJ crew and find some of Randhir Singh's views ludicrous. ;)

I see the crux of the matter that SPN stands for freedom to express views, whether they are pro or against Dasam Granth.

A lot of people seem intolerant of that. They put on a tin pot dictator mentality despite living in a democracy.

They put up with diverse views in their daily lives yet when another Sikh expresses a different view they are a heretic.

How sad is that?

That is called Talibanisation.

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As for Kala Afghana, I don't know what his views are but from what I see and read here his views don't really seem that bad.

Afgana seems to upset the AKJ crew by saying things about Randhir Singh and things seem to have gone haywire after that. Saying that I frequently upset the AKJ crew and find some of Randhir Singh's views ludicrous. ;)

They put up with diverse views in their daily lives yet when another Sikh expresses a different view they are a heretic.

Read some of his bakwas first hand - plenty of his heretical writings are on the net.

The very definition of a heretic.

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GillAUS,

Guru Fateh.

Once again you are not being truthful and shows how much falsehood is there within. You called those who had different opinions about DG as Wahhabis and was taken to task by me for which you apologised. It is all on record and you know it. But people like you when get caught always try to run away.

As far as your above statement, I have nothing for or against KA. It is the itch people like you have and accuse others of some nonsense that you know nothing about because you have lost the debate and have nothing more to debate about. Your hatred towards Sikhi and absence of Sikhi Gyan shows that you are quick to label people and then lie about things. Not a Sikhi trait, I am afraid. What a Shame

Now if you want to have any interaction about SGGS, our ONLY GURU, it will be an honour on my part to do that.:-)

Tejwant Singh

What a shame!

What a shame!

Waheguruseeker

Since when you have started thinking that you have become master of otehrs fate. Who are you to take anybody to task?

Your look out regarding teachings of SGGS are perverted. You have no knowledge of SGGS also. Start a new thread on that and let us see

and we will prove how skewed is you interpretation of SGGS also.

By the way what banis you read in nitnem?

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Waheguruseeker

Since when you have started thinking that you have become master of otehrs fate. Who are you to take anybody to task?

Your look out regarding teachings of SGGS are perverted. You have any knowledge of SGGS also. Start a new thread on that and let us see

and prove how skewed is you interpretation of SGGS also.

By the way wht banis you read in nitnem?

Singh2 aka Inder singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You are doing the same thing I asked you not to when you tried to become the spokesperson for Only Five.

Let people say what they want to. Give GillAUS a chance to speak for himself. It is only a Sikhi way.

I think your age is catching up to you although your mind is still lechery. Read the thread on SPN of which GillAUS and I were talking about.

So, I request you to shhhhh and give the person a chance.

Thanks

Tejwant Singh

PS: One more thing, please learn to spell my User's name in the right way. Common sense demands that. Practice it hundred times. It will help.:-)

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Randip Ji,

Maybe you should look back at Arshis 'good ol days' on Tapoban - when he and AKJ were inseperable... it was all siphta(n) siphta(n) / self admiration society - in fact, in those days Arshi seemed to thing that AKJ and Bhai Randhir Singh were the best thing in Sikhi...

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Singh2 aka Inder singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

You are doing the same thing I asked you not to when you tried to become the spokesperson for Only Five.

Let people say what they want to. Give GillAUS a chance to speak for himself. It is only a Sikhi way.

I think your age is catching up to you although your mind is still lechery. Read the thread on SPN of which GillAUS and I were talking about.

So, I request you to shhhhh and give the person a chance.

Thanks

Tejwant Singh

PS: One more thing, please learn to spell my User's name in the right way. Common sense demands that. Practice it hundred times. It will help.:-)

Waheguruseeker ji

i was participating in that discussion. You are lying here. There was no apology asked for nor.tendered.

To divert attention from the topic you paly such tricks very often. Can you post that here?

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Randip Ji,

Maybe you should look back at Arshis 'good ol days' on Tapoban - when he and AKJ were inseperable... it was all siphta(n) siphta(n) / self admiration society - in fact, in those days Arshi seemed to thing that AKJ and Bhai Randhir Singh were the best thing in Sikhi...

These are ploys of such people and are deception tools to get foothold. he was heretic before that and is heretic now.

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Waheguruseeker ji

i was participating in that discussion. You are lying here. There was no apology asked for nor.tendered.

To divert attention from the topic you paly such tricks very often. Can you post that here?

Singh2 aka Inder Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Ulta chor kotwal kh dantei, as the saying goes.LOL.

You are losing it indeed but your lechery in your mind never stops.. As asked before, give GillAUS a chance. And you are known for lying. Do all Jatts who do not believe in caste system do that? The proof of GillAUS apologising is in the post on SPN. But I urge you to give him a chance.

In the meantime you respond to the questions asked to you by Randip Singh ji.

Thanks for your input though.

Tejwant Singh

PS: Have you started practicing how to spell my user's name?:-)

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Singh2 aka Inder Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Ulta chor kotwal kh dantei, as the saying goes.LOL.

You are losing it indeed but your lechery in your mind never stops.. As asked before, give GillAUS a chance. And you are known for lying. Do all Jatts who do not believe in caste system do that? The proof of GillAUS apologising is in the post on SPN. But I urge you to give him a chance.

In the meantime you respond to the questions asked to you by Randip Singh ji.

Thanks for your input though.

Tejwant Singh

PS: Have you started practicing how to spell my user's name?:-)

waheguruseeker

What sort of a sikh you claim to be who does no know how to behave on a public domain.

You are liar and that too habitual and shoudl be awarded degree for lying.

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waheguruseeker

What sort of a sikh you claim to be who does no know how to behave on a public domain.

You are liar and that too habitual and shoudl be awarded degree for lying.

Singh2 aka Inder Singh ji,

Guru fateh.

Please Stop frothing. It is bad for your advanced age and lecherous mind. I do not lie. You have had the monopoly of lying so far. Nothing to get angry about for any reason.

You have stopped making sense and your above post indicates that. False accusations will lead a Hindu like you who is proud of his Jatt caste no where.

So relax and let people whom the questions are asked respond to it. You just keep on cultivating your lecherous mind at this old age of 82.

Tejwant Singh

PS: How many times have you practiced writing my user's name correctly so far? Do not lie this time.:-)

Moderators should take notice of Singh2's attitude. I have been always respectful to him. My posts would prove that. I address him with Ji and always greet him with Fateh.

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Singh2 aka Inder Singh ji,

Guru fateh.

Please Stop frothing. It is bad for your advanced age and lecherous mind. I do not lie. You have had the monopoly of lying so far. Nothing to get angry about for any reason.

You have stopped making sense and your above post indicates that. False accusations will lead a Hindu like you who is proud of his Jatt caste no where.

So relax and let people whom the questions are asked respond to it. You just keep on cultivating your lecherous mind at this old age of 82.

Tejwant Singh

PS: How many times have you practiced writing my user's name correctly so far? Do not lie this time.:-)

Moderators should take notice of Singh2's attitude. I have been always respectful to him. My posts would prove that. I address him with Ji and always greet him with Fateh.

Is calling someone lecherous is respectful? So that is the standrd of your gursikhi.

All you have done so far is indulge in polemics over personal issues. It seems you have nothing else except using derogatory langugae for others.

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