Devi Pargat By Guru Gobind Singh?

[HarjasDevi]

References to deities in SGGS should not be twisted. Guru sahib wrote in detail about these deities in Dasam Granth sahib.

The following is from Bachitra natak composition of Dasam granth.

There is no distortion Singh2 Ji. All I have done is directly copy the Guru vakia and place side by side with sanatan granth vakia. How are you accusing of twisting? Even traditional sampradayas like Udasin and Nirmalay analyze the Vedantic context.

It is true Narayana, for example is a NAAM of the God as Vishnu aspect. But it is the aspect which like Parabrahm means nirguna and therefore beyond the senses of guna and delusion bondage of maya. Please do not mistake that certain aspects of the Divine which are emphasized in Gurbani mean guna devatay. The error of the Singh Sabhian mentality is ignorance of Hindu teaching getting hysterical over any mention of a devatay NAAM. And this without understanding the HINDU philosophical distinctions. What I'm showing you is the VEDANTIC conception of God EXACTLY matches Gurmat because it is distinguishing the subtle characteristics symbolically represented within these NAAMS to distinguish NIRGUNA, and therefore the ONE SUPREME ABSOLUTE.

Just as you people think Vishnu only means guna devata and totally reject and do not listen to intelligent katha within the Hindu mat itself that in Gurbani these NAAMS of Vishnu and Krishan avatar are not representing the gunas but the ALL-PERVADING LIGHT. And you are not making the subtle distinction which Guru's bani itself makes between the corruptible (in the flesh, material nature of sargun manifestation) and the incorruptible which is always pervading and expressing from within albeit in greater and lesser degrees depending upon the QUALITIES and PURPOSES of the devatay and avtaray.

Just think of it as ONE brilliant, inconceivable, incorruptible and infinite LIGHT which the human eye can't perceive, which is pervading this world of play of lights and shadows.

ਜਿਨ ਮਨ ਹਰਿ ਚਰਨਨ ਠਹਿਰਾਯੋ ॥ ਸੋ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਨ ਕੇ ਰਾਹ ਨ ਆਯੋ ॥੧੮॥

जिन मन हरि चरनन ठहिरायो ॥ सो सिम्रितन के राह न आयो ॥१८॥

Those who devoted themselves to the Feet of the Lord, they did not adopt the path of the Smritis.18.

Jios, Smritis are not Sruti. They are legal commentaries on Vedantic Mat, they do not have the weight and authority of the Vedas. What the vaak is saying is that bhakti devotees who take shelter directly in the charan of the Guru God do not get entangled with legal interpretations and scholarship.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਚਾਰ ਹੀ ਬੇਦ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਕ ਤਿਹ ਕਰਮ ਚਲਾਏ ॥

ब्रहमा चार ही बेद बनाए ॥ सरब लोक तिह करम चलाए ॥

Brahma composed all the four Vedas, all the people followed the injunctions contained in them.

ਚਾਰੇ ਬੇਦ ਕਥਹਿ ਆਕਾਰੁ ॥

chaarae baedh kathhehi aakaar ||

The four Vedas speak only of the visible forms.

ਤੀਨਿ ਅਵਸਥਾ ਕਹਹਿ ਵਖਿਆਨੁ ॥

theen avasathhaa kehehi vakhiaan ||

They describe and explain the three states of mind,

ਤੁਰੀਆਵਸਥਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਹਰਿ ਜਾਨੁ ॥੧॥

thureeaavasathhaa sathigur thae har jaan ||1||

but the fourth state, union with the Lord, is known only through the True Guru. ||1||

ਰਾਮ ਭਗਤਿ ਗੁਰ ਸੇਵਾ ਤਰਣਾ ॥

raam bhagath gur saevaa tharanaa ||

Through devotional worship of the Lord, and service to the Guru, one swims across.

~SGGS Ji ang 154

ਸਾਸਤ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਬੇਦ ਬੀਚਾਰੇ ਮਹਾ ਪੁਰਖਨ ਇਉ ਕਹਿਆ ॥

saasath sinmrith baedh beechaarae mehaa purakhan eio kehiaa ||

The great men have studied the Shaastras, the Simritees and the Vedas, and they have said this:

ਬਿਨੁ ਹਰਿ ਭਜਨ ਨਾਹੀ ਨਿਸਤਾਰਾ ਸੂਖੁ ਨ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਲਹਿਆ ॥੧॥

bin har bhajan naahee nisathaaraa sookh n kinehoon lehiaa ||1||

"Without the Lord's meditation, there is no emancipation, and no one has ever found peace."

~SGGS Ji ang 215

ਜਿਨ ਕੀ ਲਿਵ ਹਰਿ ਚਰਨਨ ਲਾਗੀ ॥ ਤੇ ਬੇਦਨ ਤੇ ਭਏ ਤਿਆਗੀ ॥੧੯॥

जिन की लिव हरि चरनन लागी ॥ ते बेदन ते भए तिआगी ॥१९॥

Those who were devoted to the Feet of the Lord, they abandoned the Vedas.19.

ਸਾਧੋ ਰਾਮ ਸਰਨਿ ਬਿਸਰਾਮਾ ॥

saadhho raam saran bisaraamaa ||

Holy Saadhus: rest and peace are in the Sanctuary of the Lord.

ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਪੜੇ ਕੋ ਇਹ ਗੁਨ ਸਿਮਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਕੋ ਨਾਮਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

baedh puraan parrae ko eih gun simarae har ko naamaa ||1|| rehaao ||

This is the blessing of studying the Vedas and the Puraanas, that you may meditate on the Name of the Lord.

~SGGS Ji ang 220

ਅਨਖੇਦ ਅਭੇਦ ਅਛੇਦ ਨਰੰ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਚਾਰ ਚਤ੍ਰ ਦਿਸ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਫਿਰੰ ॥੧੪॥੧੫੪॥

अनखेद अभेद अछेद नरं ॥ जिह चार चत्र दिस चक्र फिरं ॥१४॥१५४॥

He is without anguish, without difference, and Unassailable Purusha. His discus rotes over all the fourteen worlds. 14.154.

Who is the God known as the Purusha with the discus (Sudarshana Chakra)? It is Vishnu. And it is clear that Guruji's bani is discussing, not the guna devata, but the Supreme All-Pervading Absolute who permeates all the fourteen universes. And it is equally clear that the Supreme Absolute who is being discussed, is the ROOP of God in context of the Vaishnav Sampradaya.

ਜਿਹ ਰਾਗ ਨ ਰੰਗ ਨ ਰੇਖ ਰੁਗੰ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਸੋਗ ਨ ਭੋਗ ਨ ਜੋਗ ਜੁਗੰ ॥

जिह राग न रंग न रेख रुगं ॥ जिह सोग न भोग न जोग जुगं ॥

He is without affection, colour and without any mark. He is without sorrow, enjoyment and association with Yoga.

ਭੂਅ ਭੰਜਨ ਗੰਜਨ ਆਦਿ ਸਿਰੰ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਬੰਦਤ ਦੇਵ ਅਦੇਵ ਨਰੰ ॥੧੫॥੧੫੫॥

भूअ भंजन गंजन आदि सिरं ॥ जिह बंदत देव अदेव नरं ॥१५॥१५५॥

He is the Destroyer of the Earth and the Primal Creator. The gods, demons and men all make obeisance to Him. 15.155.

ਗਣ ਕਿੰਨਰ ਜੱਛ ਭੁਜੰਗ ਰਚੇ ॥ ਮਣਿ ਮਾਣਿਕ ਮੋਤੀ ਲਾਲ ਸਚੇ ॥

गण किंनर ज्छ भुजंग रचे ॥ मणि माणिक मोती लाल सचे ॥

He Created Ganas, Kinnars, Yakshas and serpents. He Created the gems, rubies, pearls and jewels.

ਅਨਭੰਜ ਪ੍ਰਭਾ ਅਨਗੰਜ ਬ੍ਰਿਤੰ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਪਾਰ ਨ ਪਾਵਤ ਪੂਰ ਮਤੰ ॥੧੬॥੧੫੬॥

अनभंज प्रभा अनगंज ब्रितं ॥ जिह पार न पावत पूर मतं ॥१६॥१५६॥

His Glory is Unassailable and His account is Eternal. No one of perfect wisdom could know His Limits. 16.156.

ਅਨਖੰਡ ਸਰੂਪ ਅਡੰਡ ਪ੍ਰਭਾ ॥ ਜੈ ਜੰਪਤ ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਸਭਾ ॥

अनखंड सरूप अडंड प्रभा ॥ जै ज्मपत बेद पुरान सभा ॥

His is the Invincible Entity and His Glory is Unpunishable. All the Vedas and Puranas hail Him.

Did you miss the context where the Guru is saying the Vedas and Puranas are in fact, praising HIM, the ONE? And not some false demi-gods as you are alleging?

ਜਿਹ ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਅਨੰਤ ਕਹੈ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਭੂਤ ਅਭੂਤ ਨ ਭੇਦ ਲਹੈ ॥੧੭॥੧੫੭॥

जिह बेद कतेब अनंत कहै ॥ जिह भूत अभूत न भेद लहै ॥१७॥१५७॥

The Vedas and Katebs (Semitic Scriptures) call Him Infinite. The Gross and Subtle both could not know His Secret. 17.157.

The God is not perceivable to the material worlds or anyone who is of materiality. The scriptures are all within the finite realms trying to describe what cannot be contained in the finite concepts. They are giving only concepts of God, not the reality of Brahmgyaan. So Guruji is explaining why we don't worship books about God. Have you ever seen a murthi of the Vedas? Then don't make ridiculous claims that Sanatana Dharma worships the Vedas like a God. Guruji is making the correction that scriptural knowledge can't give anyone perception of the God. HOWEVER, they do teach about Him. They teach necessityu of a Satguru to obtain mukti. They give the world the NAAM.

ਜਿਹ ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕਤੇਬ ਜਪੈ ॥ ਸੁਤਿ ਸਿੰਧੁ ਅਧੋਮੁਖ ਤਾਪ ਤਪੈ ॥

जिह बेद पुरान कतेब जपै ॥ सुति सिंधु अधोमुख ताप तपै ॥

The Vedas, Puranas and Katebs pray to Him. The son of ocean i.e. moon, with face upside down performs austerities for His realization.

ਕਈ ਕਲਪਨ ਲੌ ਤਪ ਤਾਪ ਕਰੈ ॥ ਨਹੀ ਨੈਕੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨਿਧਿ ਪਾਨਿ ਪਰੈ ॥੧੮॥੧੫੮॥

कई कलपन लौ तप ताप करै ॥ नही नैकु क्रिपानिधि पानि परै ॥१८॥१५८॥

He performs austerities for many kalpas (ages), still the Merciful Lord is not realized by him even for a short while.18.158.

ਜਿਹ ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਸਭੈ ਤਜ ਹੈਂ ॥ ਇਕ ਚਿੱਤ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨਿਧਿ ਕੋ ਭਜ ਹੈਂ ॥

जिह फोकट धरम सभै तज हैं ॥ इक चि्त क्रिपानिधि को भज हैं ॥

Those who forsake all the fake religions, and meditate on the Merciful Lord single-mindedly;

Sanatana Dharma is the eternal Truth. Everything Guruji has described as boat of mukti comes from their teachings. Tis is why I have serious reservations about Singh Sabha editors and scholars because the translational mischief. Sanatana Dharma isn't a "religion" which teaching against the Single Lord or about simran, dhyaan, and bairaag. But the Guru is clearly saying something about getting lost following a false path of only outward knowledge and materialistic practices while missing the boat of the Divine Presence which only a Satguru's grace can give you. But this also doesn't mean to be philosophically ignorant is any kind of virtue.

ਤੇਊ ਯਾ ਭਵ ਸਾਗਰ ਕੋ ਤਰ ਹੈਂ ॥ ਭਵਿ ਭੂਲ ਨ ਦੇਹ ਪੁਨਰ ਧਰ ਹੈਂ ॥੧੯॥੧੫੯॥

तेऊ या भव सागर को तर हैं ॥ भवि भूल न देह पुनर धर हैं ॥१९॥१५९॥

They ferry across this dreadful world-ocean, and never come again in human body even by mistake.19.159.

ਇਕ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਹੀ ਕੋਟਿ ਬ੍ਰਿਤੀ ॥ ਇਮ ਬੇਦ ਉਚਾਰਤ ਸਾਰਸੁਤੀ ॥

इक नाम बिना नही कोटि ब्रिती ॥ इम बेद उचारत सारसुती ॥

Without One Lord`s Name, one cannot be saved even by millions of fasts. The Superb Shrutis (of the Vedas) declare thus.

The sargun NAAMS of the ONE ALL-PERVADING LORD are the only boat of mukti. And Vedas are not being condemned by this bani as any kind of false teaching.

ਜੋਊ ਵਾ ਰਸ ਕੇ ਚਸਕੇ ਰਸ ਹੈਂ ॥ ਤੇਊ ਭੂਲ ਨ ਕਾਲ ਫੰਧਾ ਫਸ ਹੈਂ॥੨੦॥੧੬੦॥

जोऊ वा रस के चसके रस हैं ॥ तेऊ भूल न काल फंधा फस हैं॥२०॥१६०॥

Those, who are absorbed with the ambrosia of the Name even by Mistake, they will not be entrapped in he snare of death.20.160.

~Shri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji (SGPC translation) pg. 64

The real teaching is the NAAM is a mantra which has to be empowered by a Satguru and imparted to a chela. But I fail to see where taking a tuuk here or there out of context proves anything about how Names of God are worthless and futile. CLEARLY a name of God is what NAAM is. But NAAM is an empowered word, it is imbued with the vibration of the SHABAD-JYOT out of the NAAD. And I fail to see how Gurbani is going to contradict itself by saying abandon Vedas when Gurbani clearly says the wealth and truth of the Vedas is in the sound-current and in the Guru's teachings.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਦੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਵੇਦੰ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਈ ॥

guramukh naadhan guramukh vaedhan guramukh rehiaa samaaee ||

The Guru's Word is the Sound-current of the Naad; the Guru's Word is the Wisdom of the Vedas; the Guru's Word is all-pervading.

~SGGS Ji ang 2

ਘੋਖੇ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਭ ਆਨ ਨ ਕਥਤਉ ਕੋਇ ॥

ghokhae saasathr baedh sabh aan n kathhatho koe ||

I have searched all the Shaastras and the Vedas, and they say nothing except this:

ਆਦਿ ਜੁਗਾਦੀ ਹੁਣਿ ਹੋਵਤ ਨਾਨਕ ਏਕੈ ਸੋਇ ॥੧॥

aadh jugaadhee hun hovath naanak eaekai soe ||1||

"In the beginning, throughout the ages, now and forevermore, O Nanak, the One Lord alone exists."

~SGGS Ji ang 254

ਅਖਰ ਮਹਿ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਨ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਧਾਰੇ ॥

akhar mehi thribhavan prabh dhhaarae ||

In the Word, God established the three worlds.

ਅਖਰ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਬੇਦ ਬੀਚਾਰੇ ॥

akhar kar kar baedh beechaarae ||

Created from the Word, the Vedas are contemplated.

ਅਖਰ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਪੁਰਾਨਾ ॥

akhar saasathr sinmrith puraanaa ||

From the Word, came the Shaastras, Simritees and Puraanas.

ਅਖਰ ਨਾਦ ਕਥਨ ਵਖ੍ਯ੍ਯਾਨਾ ॥

akhar naadh kathhan vakhyaanaa ||

From the Word, came the sound current of the Naad, speeches and explanations.

ਅਖਰ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਭੈ ਭਰਮਾ ॥

akhar mukath jugath bhai bharamaa ||

From the Word, comes the way of liberation from fear and doubt.

ਅਖਰ ਕਰਮ ਕਿਰਤਿ ਸੁਚ ਧਰਮਾ ॥

akhar karam kirath such dhharamaa ||

From the Word, come religious rituals, karma, sacredness and Dharma.

ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿਮਾਨ ਅਖਰ ਹੈ ਜੇਤਾ ॥

dhrisattimaan akhar hai jaethaa ||

In the visible universe, the Word is seen.

ਨਾਨਕ ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਨਿਰਲੇਪਾ ॥੫੪॥

naanak paarabreham niralaepaa ||54||

O Nanak, the Supreme Lord God remains unattached and untouched.

~SGGS Ji ang 261

ਸੋ ਪੰਡਿਤੁ ਜੋ ਮਨੁ ਪਰਬੋਧੈ ॥

so panddith jo man parabodhhai ||

He is a true Pandit, a religious scholar, who instructs his own mind.

ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਆਤਮ ਮਹਿ ਸੋਧੈ ॥

raam naam aatham mehi sodhhai ||

He searches for the Lord's Name within his own soul.

ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮ ਸਾਰੁ ਰਸੁ ਪੀਵੈ ॥

raam naam saar ras peevai ||

He drinks in the Exquisite Nectar of the Lord's Name.

ਉਸੁ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਕੈ ਉਪਦੇਸਿ ਜਗੁ ਜੀਵੈ ॥

ous panddith kai oupadhaes jag jeevai ||

By that Pandit's teachings, the world lives.

ਹਰਿ ਕੀ ਕਥਾ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਬਸਾਵੈ ॥

har kee kathhaa hiradhai basaavai ||

He implants the Sermon of the Lord in his heart.

ਸੋ ਪੰਡਿਤੁ ਫਿਰਿ ਜੋਨਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ॥

so panddith fir jon n aavai ||

Such a Pandit is not cast into the womb of reincarnation again.

ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਬੂਝੈ ਮੂਲ ॥

baedh puraan simrith boojhai mool ||

He understands the fundamental essence of the Vedas, the Puraanas and the Simritees.

ਸੂਖਮ ਮਹਿ ਜਾਨੈ ਅਸਥੂਲੁ ॥

sookham mehi jaanai asathhool ||

In the unmanifest, he sees the manifest world to exist.

ਚਹੁ ਵਰਨਾ ਕਉ ਦੇ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ॥

chahu varanaa ko dhae oupadhaes ||

He gives instruction to people of all castes and social classes.

ਨਾਨਕ ਉਸੁ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਕਉ ਸਦਾ ਅਦੇਸੁ ॥੪॥

naanak ous panddith ko sadhaa adhaes ||4||

O Nanak, to such a Pandit, I bow in salutation forever.

ਬੀਜ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ਸਰਬ ਕੋ ਗਿਆਨੁ ॥

beej manthra sarab ko giaan ||

The Beej Mantra, the Seed Mantra, is spiritual wisdom for everyone.

ਚਹੁ ਵਰਨਾ ਮਹਿ ਜਪੈ ਕੋਊ ਨਾਮੁ ॥

chahu varanaa mehi japai kooo naam ||

Anyone, from any class, may chant the Naam.

ਜੋ ਜੋ ਜਪੈ ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਹੋਇ ॥

jo jo japai this kee gath hoe ||

Whoever chants it, is emancipated.

~SGGS Ji ang 274

Please explain to me what is evil about Vedas and Puranas and what exactly people are supposed to "reject" except blind ritualism, memorization and egotistical scholarship which is far away from the bhakti marg of discipleship to a true Guru? Otherwise, the scriptures are not bad at all. They are part of the material and limited reality. But the essence of their TRUTHS are found in actual bhakti and NAAM Japna. Nothing of Sanatana Dharma has been rejected here. Those are INTERPRETATIONS imposed by people ignorant of Sanatana Dharma who distort that it teaches only worship of demi-gods and blind hypocritical materialism. And you don't think today many calling themselves "Khalsas" aren't performing mindless repetition and memorization of bani in the same way Hindu pandits have been doing for thousands of years?

A sant is still a sant, whatever their sampradaya. And a manmukh can also be hiding in Khalsa bana just as much as in sandhu's roop. We shouldn't make these generalizations which idolize ourselves and condemn everybody else. True worship is still true, and false worship abounds among materialistic people regardless whether they are Sikhs or not. That is the danger of mistranslating Guruji's message to be some sort of condemnation of Hinduism when in fact it is clear warning for everybody what is true and what is false. But if we propagandize this is all denunciation of Hindu Mat, we throw away the wise philosphy of Hindu mat and there are some beautiful truths and teachings there that do help us better understand the Vedantic context of Guruji's bani (As so many examples and stories are coming from Vedas, Puranas and Upanishads), and we falsely glorify ourselves as being the holy Sadhsangat, even as we are all aware what a manmukh almost everybody is.

So I'm not saying we don't have a sadhsangat. I'm saying don't blindly assume just anyone in bana and saying paath is automatically exempt from the same weaknesses that Guruji corrected in the pandits and sadhus. If we develop that nirmata willing to become dust of the feet of sants, and show respect and tolerance for everybody, we can and should become the real thing. But all these vulgar and insulting condemnations spoken in real ignorance of Hindu teaching is not shining the clear bright light of Guruji's message. That's all I'm saying.

[HarjasDevi]

So the hindus recognise Guru Nanak as Avatar of Vishnu, and the Avatar of Kalyug?

Dharma has changed actually. Bhagwan Ram Chanders dharma was to kill shudra who did jap-tap. Guru Ji's dharma was to say that my wars are won because of them. God has not changed, but Dharam has.

Udasay and Nirmalay also recognise Guru Nanak Dev Ji's Jyot as being a Yuga Avatar based on the Gurbani, and that is the purataan interpretation.

Gurbani also makes plain that a person, even from born shudra caste who Japs Naam and becomes devoted to God becomes the true brahmin. And the evil hypocrite, even if born into brahmin caste becomes the true shudra. So you have to make the distinction from the spiritual message versus the political misrepresentations. AS an avatar, the GOD HIMSELF was slaying the demonic people, while rescuing the real sants.

Dharma has not changed. That's why it's called SANATANA (eternal) Dharma.

ਇਸੁ ਜੁਗ ਮਹਿ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮਿ ਨਿਸਤਾਰਾ ॥

eis jug mehi raam naam nisathaaraa ||

In this age, salvation comes only from the Lord's Name.

~SGGS Ji ang 160

By what strange mystery did God's NAAM come to be RAAM if Ramachandra was evil and corrupted?

ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮ ਰਸਿਕ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰ ਰਾਜੁ ਜੋਗੁ ਤੈ ਮਾਣਿਓ ॥੬॥

har naam rasik naanak gur raaj jog thai maaniou ||6||

You are blessed with the Nectar of the Lord's Name, O Guru Nanak;

You have mastered Raja Yoga, and enjoy sovereignty over both worlds.

ਸਤਜੁਗਿ ਤੈ ਮਾਣਿਓ ਛਲਿਓ ਬਲਿ ਬਾਵਨ ਭਾਇਓ ॥

sathajug thai maaniou shhaliou bal baavan bhaaeiou ||

In the Golden Age of Sat Yuga, You were pleased to deceive Baal the king, in the form of a dwarf.

ਤ੍ਰੇਤੈ ਤੈ ਮਾਣਿਓ ਰਾਮੁ ਰਘੁਵੰਸੁ ਕਹਾਇਓ ॥

thraethai thai maaniou raam raghuvans kehaaeiou ||

In the Silver Age of Traytaa Yuga, You were called Raam of the Raghu dynasty.

ਦੁਆਪੁਰਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ਕੰਸੁ ਕਿਰਤਾਰਥੁ ਕੀਓ ॥

dhuaapur kirasan muraar kans kirathaarathh keeou ||

In the Brass Age of Dwaapur Yuga, You were Krishna; You killed Mur the demon and saved Kans.

ਉਗ੍ਰਸੈਣ ਕਉ ਰਾਜੁ ਅਭੈ ਭਗਤਹ ਜਨ ਦੀਓ ॥

ougrasain ko raaj abhai bhagatheh jan dheeou ||

You blessed Ugrasain with a kingdom, and You blessed Your humble devotees with fearlessness.

ਕਲਿਜੁਗਿ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਣੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰੁ ਅੰਗਦੁ ਅਮਰੁ ਕਹਾਇਓ ॥

kalijug pramaan naanak gur angadh amar kehaaeiou ||

In the Iron Age, the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, You are known and accepted as Guru Nanak, Guru Angad and Guru Amar Das.

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਰਾਜੁ ਅਬਿਚਲੁ ਅਟਲੁ ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖਿ ਫੁਰਮਾਇਓ ॥੭॥

sree guroo raaj abichal attal aadh purakh furamaaeiou ||7||

The sovereign rule of the Great Guru is unchanging and permanent, according the Command of the Primal Lord God.

~SGGS Ji ang 1390

Gurbani says Guru Nanak Dev Ji was Raam Raghuvans. The same Raam of Avodhya whose sons Lava and Kusha are Bedi (students of the Vedas) and Sodhi lineages. This is something evil now? By what logic?

ਬੇਦੀ ਭਏ ਪ੍ਰਸੰਨ ਰਾਜ ਕਹ ਪਾਇ ਕੈ ॥ ਦੇਤ ਭਯੋ ਬਰਦਾਨ ਹੀਐ ਹੁਲਸਾਇ ਕੈ ॥

बेदी भए प्रसंन राज कह पाइ कै ॥ देत भयो बरदान हीऐ हुलसाइ कै ॥

Having been bestowed the kingdom, the Bedis were very much pleased. With happy heart, he predicted this boon:

ਜਬ ਨਾਨਕ ਕਲਿ ਮੈ ਹਮ ਆਨ ਕਹਾਇਹੈਂ ॥ ਹੋ ਜਗਤ ਪੂਜ ਕਰਿ ਤੋਹਿ ਪਰਮ ਪਦ ਪਾਇਹੈਂ ॥੭॥

जब नानक कलि मै हम आन कहाइहैं ॥ हो जगत पूज करि तोहि परम पद पाइहैं ॥७॥

When in the Iron age, I shall be called Nanak, you will attain the Supreme State and be worshipped by the world."7.

ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥

दोहरा ॥

DOHRA

ਲਵੀ ਰਾਜ ਦੇ ਬਨਿ ਗਏ ਬੇਦੀਅਨ ਕੀਨੋ ਰਾਜ ॥

लवी राज दे बनि गए बेदीअन कीनो राज ॥

The descendants of Lava, after handing over the kingdom, went to the forest, and the Bedis (descendants of Kusha) began to rule.

ਭਾਂਤਿ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਤਿਨਿ ਭੋਗੀਯੰ ਭੂਅ ਕਾ ਸਕਲ ਸਮਾਜ ॥੮॥

भांति भांति तिनि भोगीयं भूअ का सकल समाज ॥८॥

They enjoyed all comforts of the earth in various ways.8.

ਚੌਪਈ ॥

चौपई ॥

CHAUPAI

ਤ੍ਰਿਤੀਅ ਬੇਦ ਸੁਨਬੋ ਤੁਮ ਕੀਆ ॥ ਚਤੁਰ ਬੇਦ ਸੁਨਿ ਭੂਅ ਕੋ ਦੀਆ ॥

त्रितीअ बेद सुनबो तुम कीआ ॥ चतुर बेद सुनि भूअ को दीआ ॥

O Sodhi king! You have listened to the recitation of three Vedas, and while listening to the fourth, you gave away your kingdom.

ਤੀਨ ਜਨਮ ਹਮਹੂੰ ਜਬ ਧਰਿਹੈਂ ॥ ਚਉਥੇ ਜਨਮ ਗੁਰੂ ਤੁਹਿ ਕਰਿਹੈਂ ॥੯॥

तीन जनम हमहूं जब धरिहैं ॥ चउथे जनम गुरू तुहि करिहैं ॥९॥

When I shall have taken three births, you will be made the Guru in he fourth birth."9.

ਉਤ ਰਾਜਾ ਕਾਨਨਿਹ ਸਿਧਾਯੋ ॥ ਇਤ ਇਨ ਰਾਜ ਕਰਤ ਸੁਖ ਪਾਯੋ ॥

उत राजा काननिह सिधायो ॥ इत इन राज करत सुख पायो ॥

That (Sodhi) king left for the forest, and this (Bedi) king absorbed himself in royal pleasures.

~Shri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji (SGPC translation) p. 128

[chatanga1]

Udasay and Nirmalay also recognise Guru Nanak Dev Ji's Jyot as being a Yuga Avatar based on the Gurbani, and that is the purataan interpretation.

Gurbani also makes plain that a person, even from born shudra caste who Japs Naam and becomes devoted to God becomes the true brahmin. And the evil hypocrite, even if born into brahmin caste becomes the true shudra. So you have to make the distinction from the spiritual message versus the political misrepresentations. AS an avatar, the GOD HIMSELF was slaying the demonic people, while rescuing the real sants.

Dharma has not changed. That's why it's called SANATANA (eternal) Dharma.

udasi are a joke. nirmale not far behind. and if avtars are particaular to yugs then why arent their teachings? like i said many times, if Gita wasthe text for kalyug there was no need for Guru Nanak to take birth, and reveal new scriptures, if the ld ones still held the greta knowledge. sanatan means most ancient, not eternal. and ram in naam is not the same as ramchander.

Edited January 24, 2010 by chatanga1

[laalsingh]

Just as you people think Vishnu only means guna devata and totally reject and do not listen to intelligent katha within the Hindu mat itself that in Gurbani these NAAMS of Vishnu and Krishan avatar are not representing the gunas but the ALL-PERVADING LIGHT. And you are not making the subtle distinction which Guru's bani itself makes between the corruptible (in the flesh, material nature of sargun manifestation) and the incorruptible which is always pervading and expressing from within albeit in greater and lesser degrees depending upon the QUALITIES and PURPOSES of the devatay and avtaray.

I did not read rest of the post. It is not what 'we people' thinking, it is what Guru is saying. Listen again.

Vishnu, Krishna, Fish, Tortoise etc are kritam names (no disrespect), not true name. There is One Karta and rest krits. 3rd time from same shabad, you keep on posting.

ਕਿਰਤਮ ਨਾਮ ਕਥੇ ਤੇਰੇ ਜਿਹਬਾ ॥

ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਤੇਰਾ ਪਰਾ ਪੂਰਬਲਾ॥

[Guest]

dasi are a joke. nirmale not far behind

chatanga veer, thats a quite a bold gross generalization. May i ask what makes you directly insult them like that?

[Balbir Singh]

Harjas Kaur Jee!

Devee Jee, Do you give Darshan, on YouTube etc., or just write.

[Guest]

Guys, I just re-read the topic. I will try to keep it short. Going to main topic at hand which is- was devi pargat by sri guru gobind singh ji ?

There are two ways of looking at this, one is from historical point of view which is through sakhi from ithashik granths and from spiritual aspect.

I won't discuss the historical aspect as its already been discussed but from spiritual point of view, i don't see whats the issue? I think most of us are comfortable and agree with the fact, shakti from akaal purkh was pargat by sri guru gobind singh ji. We are arguing over which form of shakti was pargat(sargun) at the first place, may i ask why does that matter? why does it concern each of us? Be assured it came from nirgun vahiguroo not came from satan (does not exist). Nirgun vahiguroo does not need approval certificate from mere mortals like us who are still stuck at cham dristhi which form shall it use? It can use any form of shakti it wishes whether in form of thunder, parkash, devi transcedent itself into bhaugati. Opps did i just say devi feminine? God forbid, it all comes down debate over historical figure as its already used by hindu dharam. Thats where everyone is stuck. Guys this whole debate is non issue. One does not need to be insecure, if indeed devi was pargat by satguru or bhaugati- shakti whether in any form. Sargun are pretty much part of nirgun. Gurmat is free from duality.

Fine just for sake of security, let just say shakti in form of thunder or parkash or sword was pargat. Fine then we have counter argument over rss claim that devi was pargat and satguru was upasakh of devi. All safe and sound?? Not really, an aborginal group or old greeks can very much claim that sri guru gobind singh ji was upasakh of parkash, nature one of their demi god as aborginals themselves have gods for nature. Our insecure mindset are stuck again.

How far can we run in insecurity? I say we got it all wrong. If rss claim devi was pargat by sri guru gobind singh ji?. We need to say we don't give two shits about it, nirgun shakti can take any form and they don't have ownership over nirgun vahiguroo and its form, use their own scriptures to prove it instead of rejecting an possibility in insecurity. If rss claim satguru ji was upasakh of devi, well job easy there are plenty quotes already posted by singh2 and others debunking the whole theory about it from sri dasam granth and sri guru granth sahib ji.

Thats my take on it...!

[HarjasDevi]

udasi are a joke. nirmale not far behind.

Why are they a joke exactly? They each have own sampraday which have contributed good things. Why disrespect anyone even if you disagree? If you have something better is should be precious something to share, especially with people in need.

and if avtars are particaularto yugs then why arent their teachings?

Not all avatars are particular to yugs. The teachings are as said by Gurbani. As the Dharma bull loses his legs, the requirements of Dharm change from age to age.

like i said many times, if Gitawas the text for kalyug there was no need for Guru Nanak to take birth,and reveal new scriptures, if the ld ones still held the gretaknowledge. sanatan means most ancient, not eternal. and ram in naam isnot the same as ramchander.

Gurbani says the God comes from Age to Age. Gurbani says the God came as Ramachandra and Krishna and also as Guru Sahib. But you can believe however you want. It doesn't even matter what you or I believe because BELIEF is not our boat of mukti. Guruji's kirpa is our greatest grace.

"Sanatana" is a Sanskrit word that denotes that which which is Anadi (beginningless), Anantha (endless) and does not cease to be, that which is eternal and everlasting. With its rich connotations, Dharma is not translatable to any other language. Dharma is from dhri,meaning to hold together, to sustain. Its approximate meaning is"Natural Law," or those principles of reality which are inherent in thevery nature and design of the universe. Thus the term Sanatana Dharmacan be roughly translated to mean "the natural, ancient and eternal way." Sanatana Dharma

[singh2]

Deleted

Edited January 25, 2010 by singh2

[singh2]

harjas touts santana dharma as being similar to sikhism.

That is far from correct. santana dharma endorses varna ashram or caste sytem. per that Hindu caste is divided in four castes. Lowest caste shudras are considered as not even human beings.

Sikhism believes in equality of human beings.Drinking from the same bowl during Amrit sanchar broke that barrier forever.

santana dharma endorses yogic practices to achieve God.sikhism rejects that.

Status of demigods is already explained by extensive quotes from dasam Granth sahib.below are quotes from SGGS ji.

ਦੇਵੀ ਦੇਵਾ ਮੂਲੁ ਹੈ ਮਾਇਆ ॥

Maya is the origin of demigods

SGGS 129

ਸਵ ਬਿਰੰਚਿ ਅਸੁਰ ਸੁਰ ਜੇਤੇ ਕਾਲ ਅਗਨਿ ਮਹਿ ਜਰਤੇ ॥

Shiva, Brahma, angels and demons, all burn in the fire of death

SGGS ji 1267

ਸਵ ਬਿਰੰਚਿ ਅਰੁ ਸਗਲ ਮੋਨਿ ਜਨ ਗਹਿ ਨ ਸਕਾਹਿ ਗਤਾ ॥

Shiva, Brahma and all the silent sages cannot understand the state of the Supreme Being

SGGS 498

ਇਸ ਦੇਹੀ ਕਉ ਸਿਮਰਹਿ ਦੇਵ ॥ ਸੋ ਦੇਹੀ ਭਜੁ ਹਰਿ ਕੀ ਸੇਵ ॥੧॥:

Even the demigods long for this human body.

Once you have this body, think of serving the Lord ||1||

SGGS 1159

[laalsingh]

I don't think people come to any conclusion by debating. ਵਾਦ is of no use. But readers looking for answers can draw conclusions (right or wrong) by reading the posts.

Debates on forums are better than debating live. Live debates are won by better debaters, not by truthful ones, but in online forums debaters does not have this advantage (it still happens sometimes, like people try to drown truth with long and off the topic postings).

Even though with fake names, members show their real faces. "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. "

Continue the fun.

Edited January 25, 2010 by laalsingh

[laalsingh]

Harjas Kaur Jee!

Devee Jee, Do you give Darshan, on YouTube etc., or just write.

ਐਸ ਪਿਆਸੇ ਨੂੰ ਦਰਸ਼ਨ ਜਰੂਰ ਦਿੳ। ਲਾਲਾਂ ਗਿੱਟਿਆਂ ਤੱਕ ਆਈਆਂ।

Edited January 25, 2010 by laalsingh

[HarjasDevi]

harjas touts santana dharma as being similar to sikhism.

That is far from correct. santana dharma endorses varna ashram or castesytem. per that Hindu caste is divided in four castes. Lowest casteshudras are considered as not even human beings.

Sikhism believes in equality of human beings. Drinking from the same bowl during Amrit sanchar broke that barrier forever.

Actually the Vaishnav sampradaya did break that caste barrier a couple hundred years before Guru Nanak Dev Ji. They also started langar/free kirtchens.

If caste of Shudras are not even considered human beings by Hindus, how do you explain that the Hindu sant of my experience is from Shudra caste? Perhaps you have erroneous views which reflect only the worst distortions of sanatana Dharma.

In actuality Guru Sahib corrected the abuses and distortions of the caste system to the original Sruti of the Vedas. He did not reject tradition. In fact all the Guru's married within their caste and keeping caste surname. You may deny it, but right or wrong, it's the truth. During Sikh Misl period Sikhs kept caste surnames. Why is this if it was rejected completely? What was rejected was abuses of the caste system. Those Vaishnav bhagats whose bani is in Gurbani? Many were shudras who had Brahmin Gurus. How was this? Because Vaishnavism, although it's sects are divided now, do still have sampraday which reject ABUSES of the caste and made BRAHMIN Sannyasis out of all castes long before there was a Guru Gobind Singh.

ਅਧਮ ਚੰਡਾਲੀ ਭਈ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਣੀ ਸੂਦੀ ਤੇ ਸ੍ਰੇਸਟਾਈ ਰੇ ॥

adhham chanddaalee bhee brehamanee soodhee thae sraesattaaee rae ||

The lowly outcaste becomes a Brahmin, and the untouchable sweeper becomes pure and sublime.

~SGGS Ji ang 381

ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣ ਸੂਦ ਵੈਸ ਉਪਦੇਸੁ ਚਹੁ ਵਰਨਾ ਕਉ ਸਾਝਾ ॥

khathree braahaman soodh vais oupadhaes chahu varanaa ko saajhaa ||

The four castes - the Kh'shaatriyas, Brahmins, Soodras and Vaishyas - are equal in respect to the teachings.

~SGGS Ji ang 747

ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣੁ ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਸੂਦ ਵੈਸ ਚਾਰਿ ਵਰਨ ਚਾਰਿ ਆਸ੍ਰਮ ਹਹਿ ਜੋ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਵੈ ਸੋ ਪਰਧਾਨੁ ॥

braahaman khathree soodh vais chaar varan chaar aasram hehi jo har dhhiaavai so paradhhaan ||

There are four castes: Brahmin, Kh'shaatriya, Soodra and Vaishya, and there are four stages of life. One who meditates on the Lord, is the most distinguished and renowned

~SGGS Ji ang 861

ਗਾਵਹਿ ਗੁਣ ਬਰਨ ਚਾਰਿ ਖਟ ਦਰਸਨ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾਦਿਕ ਸਿਮਰੰਥਿ ਗੁਨਾ ॥

gaavehi gun baran chaar khatt dharasan brehamaadhik simaranthh gunaa ||

The four castes and the six Shaastras sing His Glorious Praises; Brahma and the others contemplate His Virtues.

~SGGS Ji ang 1390

ਆਪੇ ਦਸ ਅਠ ਵਰਨ ਉਪਾਇਅਨੁ ਆਪਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਆਪਿ ਰਾਜੁ ਲਇਆ ॥

aapae dhas ath varan oupaaeian aap breham aap raaj laeiaa ||

He Himself created the people of the eighteen castes; God Himself acquired His domain.

ਆਪੇ ਮਾਰੇ ਆਪੇ ਛੋਡੈ ਆਪੇ ਬਖਸੇ ਕਰੇ ਦਇਆ ॥

aapae maarae aapae shhoddai aapae bakhasae karae dhaeiaa ||

He Himself kills, and He Himself redeems; He Himself, in His Kindness, forgives us. He is infallible

~SGGS Ji ang 553

santana dharma endorses yogic practices to achieve God.sikhism rejects that.

Sikhi is Jog Jio. The first Jogic practice of a Sikh...tie the kes in a jura, forming a mudra over his dasam duar. Second Jogic practice of a Sikh practice pranayama Nama Japa to put vibration of mantr onto the hairs and placing surti on the praan starting from the nabhi.

Perhaps if Sikhi rejects Jog you can explain to me precisely what is going on with the Ire, Pingala and Shushmana nadis please? And exactly where do you get amrit which trickles down the throat? Because that's Joga. Do you even understand Naam Japna?

ਭਾਠੀ ਗਗਨੁ ਸਿੰਙਿਆ ਅਰੁ ਚੁੰਙਿਆ ਕਨਕ ਕਲਸ ਇਕੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥

bhaathee gagan sinn(g)iaa ar chunn(g)iaa kanak kalas eik paaeiaa ||

The Tenth Gate of my crown chakra is the distilling fire, and the channels of the Ida and Pingala are the funnels, to pour in and empty out the golden vat.

ਤਿਸੁ ਮਹਿ ਧਾਰ ਚੁਐ ਅਤਿ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਰਸ ਮਹਿ ਰਸਨ ਚੁਆਇਆ ॥੨॥

this mehi dhhaar chuai ath niramal ras mehi rasan chuaaeiaa ||2||

Into that vat, there trickles a gentle stream of the most sublime and pure essence of all distilled essences. ||2||

ਏਕ ਜੁ ਬਾਤ ਅਨੂਪ ਬਨੀ ਹੈ ਪਵਨ ਪਿਆਲਾ ਸਾਜਿਆ ॥

eaek j baath anoop banee hai pavan piaalaa saajiaa ||

Something wonderful has happened-the breath has become the cup.

ਤੀਨਿ ਭਵਨ ਮਹਿ ਏਕੋ ਜੋਗੀ ਕਹਹੁ ਕਵਨੁ ਹੈ ਰਾਜਾ ॥੩॥

theen bhavan mehi eaeko jogee kehahu kavan hai raajaa ||3||

In all the three worlds, such a Yogi is unique. What king can compare to him?

~SGGS Ji ang 92

What is being described above is called Khechari Mudra, the seal you make with your tongue at the back of the throat to catch the amrit nectar as it trickles down from the pineal gland once the agni chakr at level between the eyes (third eye) opens. This area is where the Ire, Pingala and Shushmana meet, the confluence of three rivers. It is also discussed in Bhai Gurdas Vaaran. These inner seals of the nine gates, bodily senses have to close before the tenth gate can open. The nine Jogic gates are: 1. 2 eyes, 2 ears, nose, mouth, rectum and urethra. This restraint has to be mastered before you can hear the 5 yogic sounds, panch shabad leading to the stillness of sehaja samadhi of the anehad shabad, because the soundless sound is not heard audibly with the senses. That is why NAAM is the boat of mukti. And it is NOT unique to Sikhs. Not only Yogis but even the Sufis practice Naam with Dhikr.

ਉਲਟਤ ਪਵਨ ਚਕ੍ਰ ਖਟੁ ਭੇਦੇ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਸੁੰਨ ਅਨਰਾਗੀ ॥

oulattath pavan chakr khatt bhaedhae surath sunn anaraagee ||

I turned my breath inwards, and pierced through the six chakras of the body, and my awareness was centered on the Primal Void of the Absolute Lord.

~SGGS Ji ang 333

ਰਾਗ ਨਾਦ ਸੰਬਾਦ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਚੇਤਾਇਆ ।

raag naad sanbaad giaanu chaytaaiaa|

Music, melody, dialogue and knowledge make man a conscious being.

ਨਉ ਦਰਵਾਜੇ ਸਾਧਿ ਸਾਧੁ ਸਦਾਇਆ ।

nau daravaajay saadhi saadhu sadaaiaa|

By disciplining the nine gates of the body one is called a sadhu.

ਵੀਹ ਇਕੀਹ ਉਲਘਿ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਆਇਆ ।

veeh ikeeh ulaghi nij ghari aaiaa|

Transcending the worldy illusions he stabilizes within his self.

ਪੂਰਕ ਕੁੰਭਕ ਰੇਚਕ ਤ੍ਰਾਟਕ ਧਾਇਆ ।

poorak kunbhak raychak traatak dhaaiaa|

Prior to this, he was running after various practices of hath yoga,

ਨਿਉਲੀ ਕਰਮ ਭੁਯੰਗੁ ਆਸਣ ਲਾਇਆ ।

niulee karam bhuyangu aasan|aaiaa|

such as the rechak, purak, kumbhak, tratak, nyolrand bhujarig asan.

ਇੜਾ ਪਿੰਗੁਲਾ ਝਾਗ ਸੁਖਮਨਿ ਛਾਇਆ ।

irhaa pingulaa jhaag sukhamani chhaaiaa|

He practised different processes of breathing like ire', pirigala and susumna.

Line 6

ਖੇਚਰ ਭੂਚਰ ਚਾਚਰ ਸਾਧਿ ਸਧਾਇਆ ।

khaychar bhoochar chaachar saadhi sadhaaiaa|

He perfected their khechari and chachari postures.

ਸਾਧ ਅਗੋਚਰ ਖੇਲੁ ਉਨਮਨਿ ਆਇਆ ॥੬॥

saadh agochar khaylu unamani aaiaa ॥6॥

Through such mysterious sport he establishes himself in the equipoise.

~Vaar 22 Pauri 6 of Vaaran Bhai Gurdas Ji

ਪਉਣੁ ਪਾਣੀ ਬੈਸੰਤਰੋ ਧਰਤਿ ਅਕਾਸੁ ਉਲਘਿ ਪਇਆਣਾ ।

paunu paanee baisantaro dharati akaasu ulaghi paiaanaa|

Gurmukh goes beyond air, water, fire, earth and sky.

ਕਾਮੁ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਵਿਰੋਧੁ ਲਘਿ ਲੋਭੁ ਮੋਹੁ ਅਹੰਕਾਰੁ ਵਿਹਾਣਾ ।

kaamu krodhu virodhu|aghi|obhu mohu ahankaaru vihaanaa|

Resisting lust and anger he crosses the greed, infatuation and ego.

ਸਤਿ ਸੰਤੋਖ ਦਇਆ ਧਰਮੁ ਅਰਥੁ ਸੁ ਗਰੰਥੁ ਪੰਚ ਪਰਵਾਣਾ ।

sati santokh daiaa dharamu aradu su garandu panch paravaanaa|

He espouses truth, contentment, compassion, dharma and fortitude.

ਖੇਚਰ ਭੂਚਰ ਚਾਚਰੀ ਉਨਮਨ ਲਘਿ ਅਗੋਚਰ ਬਾਣਾ ।

khaychar bhoochar chaacharee unaman|aghi agochar baanaa|

Getting above of the khechar bhuchar chachar, unman and agochar (all yogic postures) mudras he concentrates upon the One Lord.

ਪੰਚਾਇਣ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੋ ਪੰਚ ਸਬਦ ਘਨਘੋਰ ਨੀਸਾਣਾ ।

panchaain paramaysaro panch sabad ghanaghor neesaanaa|

He beholds God in five (select persons) and the five sounds of five words become his special marks.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਪੰਚ ਭੂਆਤਮਾ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਾਧ ਸੁਹਾਣਾ ।

guramukhi panch bhooaatamaa saadhasangati mili saadh suhaanaa|

Antahkaran, the basis of all five external elements is cultivated and cultured by gurmukh in the holy congregation.

ਸਹਜ ਸਮਾਧਿ ਨ ਆਵਣ ਜਾਣਾ ॥੫॥

sahaj samaadhi n aavan jaanaa ॥5॥

This way immersing in undisturbed trance he gets liberated from the cycle of transmigration.

~Vaar 7 Pauri 5 of Vaaran Bhai Gurdas Ji

Status of demigods is already explained by extensive quotes from dasam Granth sahib.below are quotes from SGGS ji.

Status of demi-gods is exactly as taught in Gurbani. Even the same exact NAAMS are used to describe the same Devatay, Avtaray and Nirguna. With the same purpose, surrender to a Satguru, practice NAAM Jap and bhakti of sankirtan of Lord's praise, in order to cross ocean of sansaar and obtain mukti. I'm sorry but the differences are not that great as you'd like to think veer Ji.

[HarjasDevi]

Even though with fake names, members show their real faces.

Actually, it is my real name. It is your judgment as to my real face or not.

[HarjasDevi]

Respected veer Balbir Singh Ji asks:

Harjas Kaur Jee!

Devee Jee, Do you give Darshan, on YouTube etc., or just write.

Respected veer ji, if I was on Youtube it would be a comedy of drooping eyelids and my ego would require Guruji's swift kick, which sadly I would receive. Already I make too much self-important noise on internet and should do tapasiya to repent for it.

However there is darshan of Devi on Youtube. Wherever there is authentic message of piare, the God is always present. Wherever there is cherishing people, the Devi is always there. Because Devi is just one face of infinite God. So every one of us are also meant to become the face and roop of Divine Love and Divine Power to do good courageously in the face of suffering and evil.

Please enjoy Shri Mata Ji's message to become the change the world needs. Because you will not have any sipahis worth anything to Dharm if they have not first become sants. My humble benti to you all, let's be kind and let's be good so we shine Divine's own roop in this world of darkness before we too, fade away.

"Your task is not to seek love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself you have built against it."~Jalal al-Din Rumi

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=_pTLR9qRlqg

[Balbir Singh]

ਐਸ ਪਿਆਸੇ ਨੂੰ ਦਰਸ਼ਨ ਜਰੂਰ ਦਿੳ। ਲਾਲਾਂ ਗਿੱਟਿਆਂ ਤੱਕ ਆਈਆਂ।

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all and Laal Singh Jee!

A Seekher desired to meet PaarBrahm. He closed his eyes to begin the journey. A friend, his mind, accompanying him while traveling asked "are you tired?" He answered "No. I am trying to find out how God looks like."

The friend became curious "Can you recognize God with closed eyes?"

"On the way I do not want Darshan of any Devee." The Seekher replied.

*****

I also watch koti Seekhers doing mardan to HIM.

*****

Laal Singh, don't feel bad if again somebody is before you.

*****

Harjas Kaur Jee!

Thanks for your post and link to the YouTube film.

Balbir Singh

[Kaljug]

.

Edited January 25, 2010 by Kaljug

[Balbir Singh]

playtluthansasrikaal!

Was this Seekher one of your imaginary disciples? I wonder what he would have done had he opened his eyes and seen this divine image on his pet dog's ass before him:

K.

Kaljug Jee also wrote "When I was in my teens I took an heroic dose of psilocybin cubensis (magic mushrooms for the unintiated) and had the experience of being everything, everywhere, at all times."

*****

Kaljug Jee!

God may liberate you from the parent part and help you grow from the last magic mushroom also, with or without Devee's Darshan.

[singh2]

Harjas tries to justify that yogic excercises are a means to achieve God in Sikhism.That is outrightly a lie.

Our Gurus have reejcted these yogic practices.Read below

ਤ੍ਰੈ ਸਤ ਅੰਗੁਲ ਵਾਈ ਅਉਧੂ ਸੁੰਨ ਸਚੁ ਆਹਾਰੋ ॥

tarai sat angul vaa-ee a-oDhoo sunn sach aahaaro.

O reclusive hermit, the True, Absolute Lord is the support of the exhaled breath, which extends out ten finger lengths.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬੋਲੈ ਤਤੁ ਬਿਰੋਲੈ ਚੀਨੈ ਅਲਖ ਅਪਾਰੋ ॥

gurmukh bolai tat birolai cheenai alakh apaaro.

The Gurmukh speaks and churns the essence of reality, and realizes the unseen, infinite Lord.

ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਮੇਟੈ ਸਬਦੁ ਵਸਾਏ ਤਾ ਮਨਿ ਚੂਕੈ ਅਹੰਕਾਰੋ ॥

tarai gun maytai sabad vasaa-ay taa man chookai ahankaaro.

Eradicating the three qualities, he enshrines the Shabad within, and then, his mind is rid of egotism.

ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਏਕੋ ਜਾਣੈ ਤਾ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਲਗੈ ਪਿਆਰੋ ॥

antar baahar ayko jaanai taa har naam lagai pi-aaro.

Inside and out, he knows the One Lord alone; he is in love with the Name of the Lord.

ਸੁਖਮਨਾ ਇੜਾ ਪਿੰਗੁਲਾ ਬੂਝੈ ਜਾ ਆਪੇ ਅਲਖੁ ਲਖਾਏ ॥

sukhmanaa irhaa pingulaa boojhai jaa aapay alakh lakhaa-ay.

He understands the Sushmana, Ida and Pingala, when the unseen Lord reveals Himself.

ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਹੁ ਤੇ ਊਪਰਿ ਸਾਚਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਬਦਿ ਸਮਾਏ ॥੬੦॥:

naanak tihu tay oopar saachaa satgur sabad samaa-ay. ||60||

O Nanak, the True Lord is above these three energy channels. Through the Word, the Shabad of the True Guru, one merges with Him. ||60||

ru, one merges with Him ||60||

(sggs 944).

[chatanga1]

Actually the Vaishnav sampradaya did break that caste barrier a couple hundred years before Guru Nanak Dev Ji. They also started langar/free kirtchens.

Sikhi is Jog Jio. The first Jogic practice of a Sikh...tie the kes in a jura, forming a mudra over his dasam duar. Second Jogic practice of a Sikh practice pranayama Nama Japa to put vibration of mantr onto the hairs and placing surti on the praan starting from the nabhi.

not long ago we had a shia who "proved" that langar was a persian concept which was brought to india. if the vaishnavs did it, it didnt catch on very well did it? Brahmans complaining to the moghals about the Gurus preaching a new path disregarding the teachings of the sanskrit texts etc and making every varna sit together to eat. Even at the time of Guru Gobind Singh, the warriors refused to take amrit with the lower castes. The vaishnavs probably only started free kitchens or vaishnavs im thinking.

Sikhi rejects hath yog. the yog that gurbani talks about is not the same as this.

[chatanga1]

Why are they a joke exactly? They each have own sampraday which have contributed good things.

Not all avatars are particular to yugs. The teachings are as said by Gurbani. As the Dharma bull loses his legs, the requirements of Dharm change from age to age.

firstly, the todays udasis dont even recognise their founder anymore! and the nirmalas look at everything thru vedant goggles. Im sure there are exception to these, so i apologise for the generalisation about both samprdayes. Sorry.

now harjas kaur, can you make your mind up! you first said that dharma is eternal and doesnt change, and now you say the requirements of dharma change in every age. how is that possible is dharma is eternal?

[Balbir Singh]

Harjas tries to justify that yogic excercises are a means to achieve God in Sikhism.That is outrightly a lie.

Our Gurus have reejcted these yogic practices.Read below

ਤ੍ਰੈ ਸਤ ਅੰਗੁਲ ਵਾਈ ਅਉਧੂ ਸੁੰਨ ਸਚੁ ਆਹਾਰੋ ॥

tarai sat angul vaa-ee a-oDhoo sunn sach aahaaro.

O reclusive hermit, the True, Absolute Lord is the support of the exhaled breath, which extends out ten finger lengths.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬੋਲੈ ਤਤੁ ਬਿਰੋਲੈ ਚੀਨੈ ਅਲਖ ਅਪਾਰੋ ॥

gurmukh bolai tat birolai cheenai alakh apaaro.

The Gurmukh speaks and churns the essence of reality, and realizes the unseen, infinite Lord.

ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਮੇਟੈ ਸਬਦੁ ਵਸਾਏ ਤਾ ਮਨਿ ਚੂਕੈ ਅਹੰਕਾਰੋ ॥

tarai gun maytai sabad vasaa-ay taa man chookai ahankaaro.

Eradicating the three qualities, he enshrines the Shabad within, and then, his mind is rid of egotism.

ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਏਕੋ ਜਾਣੈ ਤਾ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਲਗੈ ਪਿਆਰੋ ॥

antar baahar ayko jaanai taa har naam lagai pi-aaro.

Inside and out, he knows the One Lord alone; he is in love with the Name of the Lord.

ਸੁਖਮਨਾ ਇੜਾ ਪਿੰਗੁਲਾ ਬੂਝੈ ਜਾ ਆਪੇ ਅਲਖੁ ਲਖਾਏ ॥

sukhmanaa irhaa pingulaa boojhai jaa aapay alakh lakhaa-ay.

He understands the Sushmana, Ida and Pingala, when the unseen Lord reveals Himself.

ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਹੁ ਤੇ ਊਪਰਿ ਸਾਚਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਬਦਿ ਸਮਾਏ ॥੬੦॥:

naanak tihu tay oopar saachaa satgur sabad samaa-ay. ||60||

O Nanak, the True Lord is above these three energy channels. Through the Word, the Shabad of the True Guru, one merges with Him. ||60||

ru, one merges with Him ||60||

(sggs 944).

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all and Singh2 Jee!

Thanks for the great Vaaks from Gurdev SGGS 944.

Please explain the Vaaks that are confirming The Guru's suggestion, to reject yogic practices from the reference

given by you? I will be grateful.

Balbir Singh

[Xylitol]

Khalsa has gunas of all castes rolled into one. Therefore it is not bound by rules and strictures of other castes. Guru ji even calls Khalsa his caste, although of course he recognises his historical lineage, as we all recognise our fathers, grandparents, great grandparents etc.

[singh2]

balbir ji had some question on relevance of yogic practice and sikhism view on that.

ਮੁੰਦ੍ਰਾ ਮੋਨਿ ਦਇਆ ਕਰਿ ਝੋਲੀ ਪਤ੍ਰ ਕਾ ਕਰਹੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ਰੇ ॥

ਖਿੰਥਾ ਇਹੁ ਤਨੁ ਸੀਅਉ ਅਪਨਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਉ ਆਧਾਰੁ ਰੇ ॥੧॥

Make silence your ear-rings, and compassion your wallet; let meditation be your begging bowl.

Sew this body as your patched coat, and take the Lord's Name as your support. ||1||

ਐਸਾ ਜੋਗੁ ਕਮਾਵਹੁ ਜੋਗੀ ॥

ਜਪ ਤਪ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਭੋਗੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Practice such Yoga, O Yogi.

As Gurmukh, enjoy meditation, austerities and self-discipline. ||1||Pause||

ਬੁਧਿ ਬਿਭੂਤਿ ਚਢਾਵਉ ਅਪੁਨੀ ਸਿੰਗੀ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਮਿਲਾਈ ॥

ਕਰਿ ਬੈਰਾਗੁ ਫਿਰਉ ਤਨਿ ਨਗਰੀ ਮਨ ਕੀ ਕਿੰਗੁਰੀ ਬਜਾਈ ॥੨॥

Apply the ashes of wisdom to your body; let your horn be your focused consciousness.

Become detached, and wander through the city of your body; play the harp of your mind. ||2||

ਪੰਚ ਤਤੁ ਲੈ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਰਹੈ ਨਿਰਾਲਮ ਤਾੜੀ ॥

ਕਹਤੁ ਕਬੀਰੁ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਰੇ ਸੰਤਹੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਦਇਆ ਕਰਿ ਬਾੜੀ

Enshrine the five tatvas - the five elements, within your heart; let your deep meditative trance be undisturbed.

Says Kabeer, listen, O Saints: make righteousness and compassion your garden. ||3||7||

page 970 SGGS ji

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all and Singh2 Jee!

I admire your dedication and praise your efforts. I feel your pains through your writings.

What I miss in your posts is a real solution. This solution is not possible by rejecting others either.

The anti Dasam Granth people are frustrated because they also miss the Tat and its experience.

Rejecting or holding a Granth was never a solution and it will never be in the future also.

The whole Sikh teaching is lost because the base of true Naam Simran is lost among Sikhs.

The authority of the Sikh religion is the weakest and unable to convince the generations.

Take the example of your last post. You want to prove that Sikhi is rejecting yogic practices.

And you give an example of Gurdev singing.

ਐਸਾ ਜੋਗੁ ਕਮਾਵਹੁ ਜੋਗੀ ॥

Such Yoga, earn Yogee.

ਜਪ ਤਪ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਭੋਗੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Jap, Tap, Sanjam, Gur through Mukh bhogee.

Not even one word from the true Gurus, a person can understand without receiving its wisdom through Naam Simran.

Have you ever thought why the basic question among Sikhs is not solved? What is Japu?

Strange, the so-called experts write a series of articles on Naam Jap. In the end they request for suggestions to improve it.

*****

The reverend Gurus convinced millions of people that God or His Gunas are not sculptures of earthy materials.

They did it by transferring the wisdom of Naam Jap and its further developments, not just talking scriptures.

*****

Aprampaar Deva is ONE. Rest. All are Devees. Devees who have recognized HIS WILL and work accordingly have special Status. Durgaa, Chandee, Lakhmee, Saraswatee, Sivaa is such Names.

Without merging in HIS WILL who can experience and act like such a Devee.

Just imagine. The Gurus became Suhaaganee. They were acting as God's Shaktee with full consciousness.

Balbir Singh

Edited January 25, 2010 by Balbir Singh