Baba Fareed And Sharia

[amardeep]

Gurfateh Singho

What does history say about Baba Fareed and his view on sharia? did he practice the sharia or had he abandoned it like Sant Kabeer?

the reason im asking is due to the following tuks that emphasises his belief in islamic doctrines and his non-belief in reincarnation

ਇਹੁ ਤਨੁ ਹੋਸੀ ਖਾਕ ਨਿਮਾਣੀ ਗੋਰ ਘਰੇ ॥੧॥

This body shall turn to dust, and its home shall be a neglected graveyard. ||1||

and

ਜੇ ਜਾਣਾ ਮਰਿ ਜਾਈਐ ਘੁਮਿ ਨ ਆਈਐ ॥

If I had known that I was to die, and not return again,

Also Baba Fareed's bani talks alot about hell and the fires there. Nothing is said about reincarnation as is seen in Sant Kabeer's bani

and

ਕਬਹੀ ਚਲਿ ਨ ਆਇਆ ਪੰਜੇ ਵਖਤ ਮਸੀਤਿ ॥੭੦॥

You never come to the mosque for your five daily prayers. ||70||

ਉਠੁ ਫਰੀਦਾ ਉਜੂ ਸਾਜਿ ਸੁਬਹ ਨਿਵਾਜ ਗੁਜਾਰਿ ॥

Rise up, Fareed, and cleanse yourself; chant your morning prayer.

What does sikh scholars say about this?

Edited October 4, 2009 by amardeep

[A_Sikh_For_Life]

I am no scholar and merely guessing that the first few pangtee's are about rejecting "resurrection" not reincarnation/transmigration.

[shaheediyan]

IMHO, Swarg/Nark, Joons etc are concepts which were already extant before our Gurus graced this dharti. All examples have been used metaphorically or literally dependant on ones education, as per usual - Gurbani being Jagath Guru speaks to all - and even if one chooses to believe in both, one or none, its of no concequence. It has no affect on ones bhagti or final objective - it simple guides us by showing us that those that are 'away' from God will suffer pain/consequence in one form or another.

Baba Farid was a Muslim - a Chisti Sufi - and adhered to the enlivening the 3 qualities - Khauf, Raza and Muhabbat.

The Chisti order passed on teachings in the traditional 'unwritten' Murid Murshid (Gur-Shishya) system. Pak Pattan has preserved many of Baba Farids oral teachings and sayings and as of late, early records of his teachings (outside of Gurbani) have also been found and books released on them.

Here is a decent book to read (by Gurbachan Singh Talib) to get a grounding on Baba Jis life, beliefs and teachings - as well as a basic intro to Chisti Sufism (as opposed to mainstream Islam) - to note - Baba Farid taught Khwaja Qutbuddin that the Sufi order teachings he was giving him were the same as ordained by the Prophet Muhammed himself:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/8636483/Baba-Sheikh-Farid-Shakar-Ganj

[Matheen]

WJKK! WJKF!

Rather than take those tuks alone, read the entire Salok Sheikh Fareed. In it, Guru Ji gently corrects (for want of a better word) some of his views. It is clear that the Saloks were recited when he was in very deep bairaag, almost depressed, and Guru Amardas Ji and Guru Arjan Dev Ji set him right. Read it here: (they start on Ang 1377):Salok Sheikh Fareed Ji

[amardeep]

Matheen: In the "corrections" by Maharaj nothing is mentioned regarding that line of not returning again. Or, atleast i could'n find any refferences so please post them here on the forum if i missed any

[navjot2]

i do not see the correlation between what you are saying and the Saloks you quote

i.e. the Saloks dont contain any reference to what you are interpreting, you comments are not relevant to the Saloks

let me put it this way- from what i can see Bhagat Ji is saying dont forget death. this isnt any kind of commentary on Sharia.

you are reading stuff into it and raising pointless questions (because they are non-issues).

[amardeep]

Navjot:

Burial is a part of the sharia and there is a quote by Prophet Muhammad saying something like "The only difference between you and the non-belivers is the namaz"...

[navjot2]

???

you saying burial is a part of sharia then saying that Prophet Himself said it is Namaz (prayer) that makes a Muslim?

so you are answering your own question.

Edited October 13, 2009 by navjot2

[amardeep]

Well that is why i am asking what sikh scholars say about this. Do you have anything to contribute with?

[shaheediyan]

Amardeep, Sufi understanding of Islam is an esoteric one.

The highly spiritual Sufis do not limit themselves to 'black and white' readings, as most people do today including many Sikhs today.

As the Bhagats, the Sufis rise above religious dogma/understanding. As an example read the wonderful analysis of the hereafter by the great Hazrat Inayat Khan, there is a mention of hereafter issues in their, both Hindu and Semetic:

IT IS difficult to explain what life in the spirit-world consists of, and difficult to put into words, but one may get some idea by observing the life of the birds which can fly over seas and forests, over hills and dales, and which feel in tune with nature and express their joy in song. There is also the life of the deer dwelling in the woods or in the mountains, drinking water at the natural springs, moving about in the open spaces, looking at the horizon from morning till evening, the sun as their time-keeper, and the moon serving as their torch. And then imagine our lives, the lives of human beings in crowded cities, days in factories and nights indoors, away from God, away from nature, even away from our self – a life completely absorbed in the struggle for existence, an ever-increasing struggle to which there is no end!

What is purgatory? In Sufi terms it is called Naza, which means suspension of activity. If there is any death it is stillness and inactivity. It is like a clock which has stopped for a time; it needs winding, and a little movement sets it going. In the same way there comes the impulse of life, which, breaking through this cloud of mortality, makes the soul see the daylight after the darkness of the night. And what does the soul see in this bright daylight? It sees itself living as before, having the same name and form, yet now progressing. The soul finds a greater freedom in this sphere and less limitation than it previously experienced in its life on the earth. Before the soul now is a world which is not strange to it, but which it has made during its life on earth. That which the soul has known as mind, that very mind is now a world to the soul; that which the soul called imagination while on earth, is now a reality before it. If this world is artistic, it is the art produced by the soul. If there is absence of beauty, that is also caused by the neglect of beauty by the soul while on earth.

The picture of Jannat, paradise, the ideas about heaven, and the conception of the infernal regions are an actual experience to the soul now; the soul is not sent to the one or the other place to be among the many who are rejoicing there, or suffering for their sins. These are the kingdoms that the soul has made while on earth, just as some creatures build nests to live in during the winter. The immediate hereafter is the winter of the soul. It passes this winter in the world which it has made either agreeable or disagreeable for itself. One might wonder if the soul lives a solitary life in this world that it has made. It does not; how can it be solitary? The mind, the secret of which is known to so few in the world, this mind can be as large as the world, and larger still. This mind can contain all that exists in the world, and even all that the universe contains within itself. The understanding of the mind widens one's outlook on life. When one arrives at this point, at first bewilderment is produced; but then the nature of God which is a phenomenon in itself is revealed.

People often wonder what connection there is between the soul which has passed from the earth and those who are still on the earth. No doubt there is now a wall which divides those on this earth from those on the other plane; yet the connection of the heart is still intact and it remains unbroken as long as the link of sympathy is there. But why, one may ask, do the lovers of those who have passed away from the earth not know anything about the condition of their beloveds on the other side? They know it in their souls, but the veils of the illusion of the physical world cover their hearts; that is why they cannot receive clear reflections. Besides it is not only the link of love and sympathy; it is the belief in the hereafter, to the extent of conviction, which raises those still on earth to the knowledge about their beloved ones who have passed to the other side. Those who deny the hereafter, deny themselves that knowledge which is the essence of all learning. It is easier for those who have passed from the earth to the other side to get into touch with those on the earth, for they have one veil the less.

The soul is on a continual journey. On whatever plane it is, it is journeying all the time; and on this journey it has a purpose to accomplish: many purposes contained and hidden in one purpose.

When there are objects which remain unfulfilled in one's lifetime on earth, they are accomplished on the further journey in the spirit-world, for nothing that the human heart has once desired remains unfulfilled. If it is not fulfilled here, it is accomplished in the hereafter. The desire of the soul is the wish of God; small or great, right or wrong, it has a moment of fulfillment. If that moment does not come while the soul is on the earth plane, it comes to the soul in the spirit world.

The soul proves its divine origin on all planes of existence in creating for itself all that it desires, in producing for itself the fulfillment of the wish of the heart, in attracting and drawing to itself all that it wants. The source of the soul is perfect, and so is its goal; therefore even in its limitation the soul has the spark of perfection. The nature of perfection is that no desire remains. Even in the limitation that the soul experiences on the earth, where it lives the life of limitation, its one desire is still perfection. So every want is supplied, for the reason that the Perfect One, even in the world of variety, does everything possible to experience perfection.

The condition of the next world is mostly like the condition of the dream world. In dreams one does not see oneself as very different from what one appears in everyday life, except in some cases and at some times; and for that there are reasons. Nevertheless, the power of the soul in the next world is much greater than that which it has in this world of limitation. The soul in the other world so to speak matures, and finds within itself the power of which it was ignorant during life on earth, the power of creating and producing all that it wishes; and its movements not being so much hindered by time and space, it is capable of accomplishing and of doing for itself things which were difficult for it to do on the earth plane.

In regard to the idea of reincarnation, when in ancient times the Hindus said to a wicked person, 'Next time you are born, you will come as a dog or monkey', it was in order to tell this man, who did not know anything of life beyond himself, that his animal qualities would come again as the heritage of the animal world, so that he would not appear again to his human friends as a man, but as an animal. When they said to a good person, 'Your good actions will bring you back as a better person', they were explaining to the man who did not know the two extreme poles of his soul, that no good action could be lost; and for the man who did not know what to hope for in the hereafter, and who only knew about life as it is lived on the earth, it was a consolation to know that all the good he had done would come again, and in that sense the theory which was thus explained was true.

It is only a difference of words; the soul which comes from above has neither name nor form, nor any particular identity; it makes no difference to the soul what it is called. Since it has no name, it might just as well adopt the name of the coat which was put on it, and such is the nature of life. The robe of justice put on a person makes him a judge, and the uniform of the policeman makes him a constable; but the judge was not born a judge, nor the constable a policeman; they were born on earth nameless, though not formless. Distinctions and differences belong to the lower world, not to the higher; therefore the Sufi does not argue against the idea of reincarnation. The difference is only in words; and it is necessary as a precaution to keep the door open for souls who wish to enter the kingdom of God, so that they may not feel bound by a dogma which teaches that they will have to be dragged back, after having left the earth plane, by their Karma. The soul of man is the spark of God, and though God is helpless on the earth, He is all-powerful in heaven; and by teaching the prayer, 'Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven', the Master has given a key to open that door behind which is the secret of that almighty power and perfect wisdom which raises the soul above all limitations.

The soul eventually rises to the standard which was the standard of its ideal; then it accomplishes or finishes the work which was its desire when on the earth. There are difficulties in doing and in accomplishing something in the spirit-world also, though not as many as here on the earth. The laws of that world are different from the laws of this world of limitations, and there the souls will find in abundance all that is scarce here.

A beautiful picture of the spirit-world is to be found in the story of Krishna. The Gopis of Brindaban all asked the young Krishna to dance with them. Krishna smiled, and told each one that in the night of the full moon he would do so. All the Gopis gathered in the valley of Brindaban, and then a miracle happened: however many Gopis there happened to be, every one of them had a dance with Krishna; they all had their desire fulfilled. This is a symbolical teaching which explains that the divine Being may be found in every soul.

The spirit-world is incomprehensible to the mind which is only acquainted with the laws of the physical world. An individual who is a limited being here, is like a world there; a soul is a person here and a planet there. When one considers the helplessness of this plane, one cannot for a single moment imagine the greatness, the facility, the convenience, the comfort, and the possibilities of the next world; and it is human nature that that which is unknown to man, means nothing to him. A pessimist came to Hazrat Ali and said, 'Is there really a hereafter for which you are preparing us by telling us to refrain from things that we desire, and to live a life of goodness and piety? What if there is no such thing as a hereafter?' Ali answered, 'If there is no such thing as a hereafter, I shall be in the same situation as you are; but if there is a hereafter, then I shall be the gainer, and you will be the loser!' Life lives and death dies; the one who lives will live, must live; there is no alternative.

The manifestation is an interesting dream, an illusion caused by cover upon cover; the soul is covered by a thousand veils. These covers do not give happiness to the soul but intoxication. The further the soul is removed from its source, the greater the intoxication. In a way this intoxication helps the purpose of the soul's journey towards its accomplishment, but the purpose of the soul is accomplished by its longing. What does it long for? Soberness. And how is that soberness attained? By discarding the veils which have covered the soul, and have thus divided it from its real source and goal. What uncovers the soul from these veils of illusion? The change which is called death. This change may be forced upon the soul against its desire, and it is then called death; it is a most disagreeable experience, like snatching away the bottle of wine from a drunken man, which is for the time most painful to him. Or else the change is brought about at will, and the soul, throwing away the cover that surrounds it, attains the same experience of soberness while still on earth, even if it is but a glimpse; the same experience which the soul, drunken by illusion, arrives at after millions and millions of years, and yet not exactly the same.

The experience of the former is Fana, annihilation, but the realization of the latter is Baqa, resurrection. The soul, drawn by the magnetic power of the divine Spirit, merges into it with a joy inexpressible in words, as a loving heart lays itself down in the arms of its beloved. The intensity of this joy is so great that nothing the soul has experienced in its life has ever made it so unconscious of the self; yet this unconsciousness of the self becomes in reality the true self-consciousness.

It is then that the soul realizes fully, 'I exist'. But the soul which arrives at this stage of realization consciously, has the greatest experience. The difference is like that between the person journeying towards the goal, enjoying at every step each experience he meets with and rejoicing at every moment of this journey in approaching nearer to the goal, and another person who is not aware of the journey at all.

[ds123]

what do you guys think of kulbir singh's post

Baba Farid jee who's baani is in Siri Guru Granth Sahib jee was a contemporary of Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee. This Farid was sitting on the Gaddi of the original Farid Shakarganj and was called Farid Saani. His real name was Sheikh Ibrahim but he was always known as Farid Saani or just Farid.

This Farid who met Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee, had great thirst for meeting Vaheguru. His heart was not at peace as he had not met Vaheguru. Then he met Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee Maharaaj and his thirst was quenched. He asked many questions to Guru Sahib and Siri Guru jee answered all his questions and finally blessed him with Gurmat Naam. Farid himself writes about this in his baani as follows:

Kar Kirpa Prabh Saadh Sang meli||

Jaa phir dekhaa taa mera Allah Beli||

(When Prabhu Akal Purakh did kirpa on me, I met the Saadhoo (Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee). After I met the true Saadh, Allah (God) became my friend).

The original Farid was a very strict Muslim and converted countless persons to Islam. It is unlikely for him to refer to someone as Saadh. Secondly, the language used in the baani of Farid jee is of the same time as Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee. It is not 300 years old i.e. the time of the original Farid.

As for how this baani got to Siri Guru Arjun Dev jee, it reached Siri Guru jee in the same way as other Bhagat Baani reached him. Siri Guru Nanak Dev jee and Siri Guru Angad Dev jee collected all this baani and passed it on. The Govindwal pothis contain Bhagat Baani which proves that the first 4 Guru Sahibaan used to preserve baani.

Daas,

Kulbir Singh

[shaheediyan]

Thats his AKJ founded opinion. They try and make Guru Nanak the physical Guru of all the 'mukt' Sajans, generally they try not to accept that Gurmukhs could have existed before Guru Nanak Dev Ji, even though there are clear example in Gurbani/Bhai Gurdas jis Vaaran.

Something to consider here is that Farid Saanis own parvaar and Murids remained Muslims - all records are kept at Pak Pattan.... if one decides to tow that line.

"The original Farid was a very strict Muslim and converted countless persons to Islam. It is unlikely for him to refer to someone as Saadh."

Thats a very narrow-minded and fanatical comment. Yes, Baba Ji did convert many to Islam, but did so under an esoteric understanding of Islam, not some fanatic Sunni version. There always have been Muslim Sadhs (Pirs).

[Mithar]

Thats his AKJ founded opinion. They try and make Guru Nanak the physical Guru of all the 'mukt' Sajans, generally they try not to accept that Gurmukhs could have existed before Guru Nanak Dev Ji, even though there are clear example in Gurbani/Bhai Gurdas jis Vaaran.

Something to consider here is that Farid Saanis own parvaar and Murids remained Muslims - all records are kept at Pak Pattan.... if one decides to tow that line.

"The original Farid was a very strict Muslim and converted countless persons to Islam. It is unlikely for him to refer to someone as Saadh."

Thats a very narrow-minded and fanatical comment. Yes, Baba Ji did convert many to Islam, but did so under an esoteric understanding of Islam, not some fanatic Sunni version. There always have been Muslim Sadhs (Pirs).

It is NOT an "AKJ founded opinion". This view is accepted by many non-AKJ Sikhs which is also backed up by many old Janam Sakhis.

[shaheediyan]

I don't know about 'many', but what I meant to say is, that as per usual, Bhai Kulbir Singh Ji stays true to AKJ opinion, not that AKJ invented the idea (although they certainly propogated it).

[chatanga1]

"The original Farid was a very strict Muslim and converted countless persons to Islam. It is unlikely for him to refer to someone as Saadh."

Thats a very narrow-minded and fanatical comment.

bro i can see it may be narrowminded, buts whats so fanatical about it?

[drawrof]

The sheikh ibrahim theory has been purported and preached in the dam-dami taksal and other taksals. The belief is that guru nanak devji's conversation with sheikh ibrahim is what we experience every morning as asa-ki-vaar. In terms of the akj slant, I don't agree with the idea that no one received mukti before guru nanak or whatever is said, BUT I have read giani gurdit's research and to be honest, I find it very convincing. Mind you, I also interpret 'gur' as 'that essence of godliness within us' hence I see the assertation of each of the bhagats learning that god is within them and not a sargun diety to worship as being a kirpa of guru nanak...

[ds123]

From sikhiwiki:http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Sheikh_Farid

"There are 134 hymns of Sheik Farid incorporated in the Guru Granth Sahib. Many Sikh scholars ascribe them to Farid Shakarganj (1173 – 1265) of Pak Pattan, a disciple of the Sufi Qutbuddin Bakhtiyar Kaki. The tenth in succession to his post was Shaikh Brahm (Ibrahim), also known as Farid Sani or Farid the 2nd, and it is this Farid who Guru Nanak Dev ji met on two occasions.

Max Arthur Macauliffe who has been described as a 'Matchless Scholar of Sikh Lore' states that hymns ascribed to Farid are compositions by the latter Farid, whereas others have ascribed them to Farid Shakarganj."

It makes sense that the bani in Guru Granth Sahib is of Bhagat Farid Sani as the language structure and Viakaran resembles Guru Nanak's style.

[shaheediyan]

"bro i can see it may be narrowminded, buts whats so fanatical about it?"

That just because he was a devout Muslim and converted many to Islam throuh his parchaar, it is unlikely he could be a Saadh, in other words its unlikely a Muslim holy man can be Saadh.

[drawrof]

A video of sheikh farid and discusses guru nanak dev ji's meeting with sheikh ibrahim

Edited October 18, 2009 by drawrof

[ds123]

So what does sangat think...which Farid's bani is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib?